EPTSummarizing the Current KeSPA - Gretech situation - Page 11
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Count9
China10928 Posts
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SRY
31 Posts
All gretech is doing is creating a rift between BW and SC2 players. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
In this situation Kespa really are the big assholes. They are fighting for the survival of the PL and don't want to lose any progamers so they are using that to their advantage, which is fine, but if kespa isn't willing to concede anything, then PL will be gone. Please someone name 1 thing kespa has been willing to compromise on yet? For blizzard they allowed kespa to finish the season up before next season's negotiations which is a lot more than they could have done already. | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
1) Gretech's negotiations was basically "Give us your time slot for the GSL, and you can have a different time slot.". Kespa, arguably justly, refused. Now, here are the two sides of it from what I see * A) Kespa has been broadcasting BW for years, and basically formed the scene. Thus they should not have to give up the time-slot they have had for years. and; B) Gretech has the sole rights to broadcast BW and SC2, thus they could shut down the Proleague if they wanted, but are giving Kespa a chance to have it, just at a worse time. So what the outcome of this is, Kespa isn't willing to have a different timeslot, and are going to risk the Proleague dieing all together? So, IMO, it's Law vs Morality. I think if it goes to court, law will win =\ *Please note, A and B are different sides of the argument, not mine. | ||
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sAAvior
Poland248 Posts
The whole point though is blizzard freaking made the game So what ? I, koreans, TL members and 10 millions of other people bought the game and they may do with it w/e the fuck they please. Your "point" doesn't make sense. The matter is not clearcut at all even if you only consider law which is made in authors/copyright owners anyway. If you start considering moral rights or how people feel law should be Blizzard would lose bigtime here. So, IMO, it's Law vs Morality. I think if it goes to court, law will win =\ a)it wouldn't be clear who would win in court even in US or Europe b)fortunately it's Korea so it's even less clear | ||
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Seam
United States1093 Posts
a)it wouldn't be clear who would win in court even in US or Europe b)fortunately it's Korea so it's even less clear I said "I think"  | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
On September 08 2010 03:04 sAAvior wrote: So what ? I, koreans, TL members and 10 millions of other people bought the game and they may do with it w/e the fuck they please. Your "point" doesn't make sense. The matter is not clearcut at all even if you only consider law which is made in authors/copyright owners anyway. If you start considering moral rights or how people feel law should be Blizzard would lose bigtime here. a)it wouldn't be clear who would win in court even in US or Europe b)fortunately it's Korea so it's even less clear The thing with IP is that there are international agreements on IP and if blizzard lost in court in korea somehow then they would go to international community and get them to jump onto korea. Like I said before. Even if kespa had been doing starcraft for 50 years, it's still blizzards game. Kespa should have gotten blizzards blessing 7 years ago and none of this would be a problem right now, but they refused to negotiate anything and now it's biting them in the but. As a purchaser of the liscence you may fully enjoy the single and multiplayer aspects of the game. You can have your own tournaments, leagues, whatever, but the minute you want to broadcast it, IP kicks in. Just as FIFA owned the rights to streaming football during the world cup, blizzard owns the rights to streaming starcraft. We should definitely hope for the best and blizzard doesn't want bad press, but no. The legal issue is obvious....blizzard wins any IP battle, so its up to kespa if proleague continues if they are actually willing to negotiate. | ||
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sAAvior
Poland248 Posts
Just as FIFA owned the rights to streaming football during the world cup, blizzard owns the rights to streaming starcraft Is this a fact or your guess ? I am asking because it's my impression that it's not sure thing but I am no expert on the subject obviously. And if you want compare FIFA to anything here it would be KeSPA. They are governing of professional starcraft afterall. | ||
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Ruff
Kazakhstan179 Posts
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n.DieJokes
United States3443 Posts
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
On September 08 2010 03:14 sAAvior wrote: Is this a fact or your guess ? I am asking because it's my impression that it's not sure thing but I am no expert on the subject obviously. And if you want compare FIFA to anything here it would be KeSPA. They are governing of professional starcraft afterall. They created the world cup event, so yes they own the rights to streaming world cup football. There were huge issues in Australia over streaming because of how much money fifa wanted. No fifa didn't create football, so they don't own the rights to all football, but in the US there was a league called XFL and it was invented based on american football, but since they had created the game they owned all the IP rights to broadcasting. | ||
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MamiyaOtaru
United States1687 Posts
On September 08 2010 03:11 darmousseh wrote:Just as FIFA owned the rights to streaming football during the world cup, blizzard owns the rights to streaming starcraft. (emphasis added) FIFA had those rights because it was their tournament, under their auspices, organized by them. They would not own broadcasting rights to, say, MLS championship. I don't think it's 100% clear that Blizzard outright owns broadcasting rights for tournaments they have nothing to do with. Would Milton Bradley own broadcast rights for any random Simon tournament? I don't think they should. They might be able to exercise copyright and prevent it from being called a Simon tournament so no one mistakes it for official, but I doubt they could prevent it from being broadcast. Or maybe they could. You might have a tough time putting on a Slamball tournament without approval from Mason Gordon and Pat Croce. Copyright may allow Blizzard to exercise control over all broadcasts, but I'm not sure it should. The courts will have something to say I guess. | ||
Daigomi
South Africa4316 Posts
To all those blaming Gretech for hardballing KeSPA, if I remember correctly Gretech paid a ton to purchase the broadcasting rights from Blizzard. They need to recuperate their costs by bringing in sponsors and broadcasting their tournaments, and KeSPA is making it difficult for them to do so. Furthermore, KeSPA is blatantly ignoring the broadcasting rights that Gretech purchased. With this in mind I don't find Gretech's actions to stop the Proleague to be surprising. Not only is KeSPA broadcasting the Proleague without paying Gretech for the rights, it is also directly competing with the GSL by broadcasting the Proleague at the same time. Gretech said it was fine if they didn't pay, but they can't not pay and then be the direct competition. KeSPA refused to budge on either request, and Gretech had to take action somehow. I don't think Gretech's action was ever intended to stop the Proleague, it simply stated that KeSPA does not have the broadcasting rights to continue with the Proleague and that it would take legal action should they fail to reach an agreement while continuing to broadcast the Proleague. What it all comes down to is whether Blizzard holds the broadcasting rights to its own games and is thus able to sell it. As I said earlier, I would tend to think the do, but the legal issue is complex and none us know enough to say who is in the right. If Blizzard does hold the rights, the KeSPA is in the wrong for not doing more to negotiate a deal with Gretech. If Blizzard does not hold the rights then KeSPA was right for standing its ground and Gretech got fucked over by purchasing the rights. Either way, I don't see how Gretech can be blamed for this. If HBO paid a fortuned to hold the exclusive rights to screen Dexter, you can't blame HBO from trying to stop NBC and ABC from airing Dexter at the exact same time that HBO plans to. EDIT: Also, just to remind everyone, KeSPA itself sold (or tried to sell) the broadcasting rights to SC back in 2006-2007 somewhere. I can't remember exactly what happened though, but it does seem slightly hypocritical for them to try to sell the rights when they believe they own it, before rejecting the existence of such rights now that Blizzard is claiming it. | ||
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ichimarugin680
United States182 Posts
On September 08 2010 01:47 Amnesia wrote: QFT Blind SC2 idiots, take your time and read this Lol. This. Will just have the opposite effect. Sc2 fans will be fans calling. Them names doesn't. Help | ||
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DragoonPK
3259 Posts
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year 2. Prior approvals about all league operations such as contracting sponsorship, marketing materials, broadcasting plan 3. License fee for running of league and all license fee of sponsorship inducement 4. Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos 5. Right to audit KeSPA EDIT: Yeah in 2007 kespa started selling broadcasting rights to different networks and blizzard found out so they entered negotations, but blizzard stopped negotiations when kespa wasn't willing to concede any of the terms listed above. | ||
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mmdmmd
722 Posts
On September 08 2010 03:42 Daigomi wrote: I think it's impossible to pass judgement on what is happening during these negotiations without actually being there. Trying to decide who the wrongdoer is based on snippets of biased information from both sides is ridiculous. It comes down to a business deal which needed to be made, and both parties believing that they did not need to budge. To all those blaming Gretech for hardballing KeSPA, if I remember correctly Gretech paid a ton to purchase the broadcasting rights from Blizzard. They need to recuperate their costs by bringing in sponsors and broadcasting their tournaments, and KeSPA is making it difficult for them to do so. Furthermore, KeSPA is blatantly ignoring the broadcasting rights that Gretech purchased. With this in mind I don't find Gretech's actions to stop the Proleague to be surprising. Not only is KeSPA broadcasting the Proleague without paying Gretech for the rights, it is also directly competing with the GSL by broadcasting the Proleague at the same time. Gretech said it was fine if they didn't pay, but they can't not pay and then be the direct competition. KeSPA refused to budge on either request, and Gretech had to take action somehow. I don't think Gretech's action was ever intended to stop the Proleague, it simply stated that KeSPA does not have the broadcasting rights to continue with the Proleague and that it would take legal action should they fail to reach an agreement while continuing to broadcast the Proleague. What it all comes down to is whether Blizzard holds the broadcasting rights to its own games and is thus able to sell it. As I said earlier, I would tend to think the do, but the legal issue is complex and none us know enough to say who is in the right. If Blizzard does hold the rights, the KeSPA is in the wrong for not doing more to negotiate a deal with Gretech. If Blizzard does not hold the rights then KeSPA was right for standing its ground and Gretech got fucked over by purchasing the rights. Either way, I don't see how Gretech can be blamed for this. If HBO paid a fortuned to hold the exclusive rights to screen Dexter, you can't blame HBO from trying to stop NBC and ABC from airing Dexter at the exact same time that HBO plans to. You are really contradicting yourself. A. You first said: I think it's impossible to pass judgement on what is happening during these negotiations without actually being there. Trying to decide who the wrongdoer is based on snippets of biased information from both sides is ridiculous. B. Then you said: If I remember correctly Gretech paid a ton to purchase the broadcasting rights from Blizzard.They need to recuperate their costs by bringing in sponsors and broadcasting their tournaments...etc But things in B is exactly what you deemed ridiculous in A - since I assume you were not there in the meetings and you based it all on "snippets of biased information" you've gotten from the internet? | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5546 Posts
On September 08 2010 03:56 darmousseh wrote: Here are the terms kespa couldn't agree to which got them in the situation they are in now. 1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year 2. Prior approvals about all league operations such as contracting sponsorship, marketing materials, broadcasting plan 3. License fee for running of league and all license fee of sponsorship inducement 4. Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos 5. Right to audit KeSPA EDIT: Yeah in 2007 kespa started selling broadcasting rights to different networks and blizzard found out so they entered negotations, but blizzard stopped negotiations when kespa wasn't willing to concede any of the terms listed above. They did agree to pay some sort of royalties/fees, but the other terms were just ridiculous. Not to mention the demand that KeSPA players sign extra contacts with Blizzard that override the contracts with their actual sponsors. WTF. | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On September 08 2010 03:42 Daigomi wrote: I think it's impossible to pass judgement on what is happening during these negotiations without actually being there. Trying to decide who the wrongdoer is based on snippets of biased information from both sides is ridiculous. It comes down to a business deal which needed to be made, and both parties believing that they did not need to budge. To all those blaming Gretech for hardballing KeSPA, if I remember correctly Gretech paid a ton to purchase the broadcasting rights from Blizzard. They need to recuperate their costs by bringing in sponsors and broadcasting their tournaments, and KeSPA is making it difficult for them to do so. Furthermore, KeSPA is blatantly ignoring the broadcasting rights that Gretech purchased. With this in mind I don't find Gretech's actions to stop the Proleague to be surprising. Not only is KeSPA broadcasting the Proleague without paying Gretech for the rights, it is also directly competing with the GSL by broadcasting the Proleague at the same time. Gretech said it was fine if they didn't pay, but they can't not pay and then be the direct competition. KeSPA refused to budge on either request, and Gretech had to take action somehow. I don't think Gretech's action was ever intended to stop the Proleague, it simply stated that KeSPA does not have the broadcasting rights to continue with the Proleague and that it would take legal action should they fail to reach an agreement while continuing to broadcast the Proleague. What it all comes down to is whether Blizzard holds the broadcasting rights to its own games and is thus able to sell it. As I said earlier, I would tend to think the do, but the legal issue is complex and none us know enough to say who is in the right. If Blizzard does hold the rights, the KeSPA is in the wrong for not doing more to negotiate a deal with Gretech. If Blizzard does not hold the rights then KeSPA was right for standing its ground and Gretech got fucked over by purchasing the rights. Either way, I don't see how Gretech can be blamed for this. If HBO paid a fortuned to hold the exclusive rights to screen Dexter, you can't blame HBO from trying to stop NBC and ABC from airing Dexter at the exact same time that HBO plans to. EDIT: Also, just to remind everyone, KeSPA itself sold (or tried to sell) the broadcasting rights to SC back in 2006-2007 somewhere. I can't remember exactly what happened though, but it does seem slightly hypocritical for them to try to sell the rights when they believe they own it, before rejecting the existence of such rights now that Blizzard is claiming it. Pretty much this is what I got from the summary, if you take a step back and look at what's really going on. KeSPA needs to make SOME kind of concession, they can't just have it all when they refused to buy the IP rights from Blizzard in the first place. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
I want KeSPA to lose, and hopefully to lose badly, if only because they behave like a nearsighted pitbull with rabies; they are not fighting for the preservation and advancement of e-sports, they are fighting for the preservation of their own little fiefdom and business model. In trying to bite the head off the competition, they've bitten more than they can chew. I have nothing against BW and I wish it didn't have to end this way, but the retarded schoolground bully that is KeSPA doesn't realize it's fighting a grown man with an army of lawyers. | ||
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