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On August 11 2010 00:44 Empyrean wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:40 AyJay wrote:On August 11 2010 00:35 Diminotoor wrote:
*You go to the store to buy a pie. Mmmm pie.*
*The pie you want should cost .... around $8.95, right?*
*Upon arriving in the frozen aisle, you are astonished to see your pie will cost you $130.00*
<You> Well, screw that I'll just make it myself from scratch.
*Upon tallying up all the costs for pie ingredients, its still going to cost you $110.00*
*You now must make a decision to either be down WAY more money than you logically should be, or go pie-less.*
<Friend> Man, well I just bought a pie but damn was it expensive. You gonna get one?
*Not being able to function/live without pie, you try to negotiate with the store, but the store is run by dick-heads with barely any intelligence.*
*Your family at home reminds you that you will need more pies in the upcoming months as well.*
I don't care who the "proverbial pie" "belongs" to. This sucks for the BW community. I don't know what kind of stores you have in South Korea, but stores where I live never negotiate. So I should call them dickheads? Bartering is quite common in non Canadian/American food markets.
Well I'm from Europe
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On August 11 2010 00:40 AyJay wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:35 Diminotoor wrote:
*You go to the store to buy a pie. Mmmm pie.*
*The pie you want should cost .... around $8.95, right?*
*Upon arriving in the frozen aisle, you are astonished to see your pie will cost you $130.00*
<You> Well, screw that I'll just make it myself from scratch.
*Upon tallying up all the costs for pie ingredients, its still going to cost you $110.00*
*You now must make a decision to either be down WAY more money than you logically should be, or go pie-less.*
<Friend> Man, well I just bought a pie but damn was it expensive. You gonna get one?
*Not being able to function/live without pie, you try to negotiate with the store, but the store is run by dick-heads with barely any intelligence.*
*Your family at home reminds you that you will need more pies in the upcoming months as well.*
I don't care who the "proverbial pie" "belongs" to. This sucks for the BW community. I don't know what kind of stores you have in South Korea, but stores where I live never negotiate. So I should call them dickheads?
Go ahead, noone will stop you. You know you dont have to openly comment to everyone who writes something you disagree with.
Blizzard was the greedy one, even if they made the game they have the right to royalties, but nooo, they wanted broadcasting rights as well.
You might say that they deserve that as well, but they left the ladder a long time ago.
Blizzard dont make rights for the wc3 / starcraft in China, where royalties would be deserved, but broadcasting right is over the top.
To me it's like saying that some guy from England invented soccer, then broadcast rights all goes to England to administer. Even there can be made arguements for it.
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Wonder how much of this public posturing is real, and how much is play-acting for Activision Blizzard's sake? It'll be a real blow to players if one of the two individual leagues falls off (although I think the team sponsors won't care as much, actually). Is CJ trying to wrest an advantage for Ongamenet over MBCGame? Looking things up, I never realized before that MBC was a public broadcaster, not necessarily for profit, totally unlike OGN. OGN and MBC obviously collaborate for Proleague, how deep are their connections? Still, the big question is who's Gretech will negotiate with for Proleague? That's the one that's important to the team sponsors.
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I wonder what was the term ongamenet accepted. I hate NDAs. It's just being used to hide outrageous demands by blizzard like the one given to kespa at the beginning.
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i m siding with the network and players on this IP issue.
Blizz only think about their own IP right but does not consider the contribution of the networks, KeSPA and the players which made all of this possible. Blizz has been the greatest beneficiary of all this hard work, yet this is how they respond to those who helped them so much - by driving them out of business.
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On August 11 2010 00:49 Iplaythings wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:40 AyJay wrote:On August 11 2010 00:35 Diminotoor wrote:
*You go to the store to buy a pie. Mmmm pie.*
*The pie you want should cost .... around $8.95, right?*
*Upon arriving in the frozen aisle, you are astonished to see your pie will cost you $130.00*
<You> Well, screw that I'll just make it myself from scratch.
*Upon tallying up all the costs for pie ingredients, its still going to cost you $110.00*
*You now must make a decision to either be down WAY more money than you logically should be, or go pie-less.*
<Friend> Man, well I just bought a pie but damn was it expensive. You gonna get one?
*Not being able to function/live without pie, you try to negotiate with the store, but the store is run by dick-heads with barely any intelligence.*
*Your family at home reminds you that you will need more pies in the upcoming months as well.*
I don't care who the "proverbial pie" "belongs" to. This sucks for the BW community. I don't know what kind of stores you have in South Korea, but stores where I live never negotiate. So I should call them dickheads? Go ahead, noone will stop you. You know you dont have to openly comment to everyone who writes something you disagree with. Blizzard was the greedy one, even if they made the game they have the right to royalties, but nooo, they wanted broadcasting rights as well. You might say that they deserve that as well, but they left the ladder a long time ago. Blizzard dont make rights for the wc3 / starcraft in China, where royalties would be deserved, but broadcasting right is over the top. To me it's like saying that some guy from England invented soccer, then broadcast rights all goes to England to administer. Even there can be made arguements for it.
Was Blizzard greedy? Yes. Was Kespa greedy? Hell yeah. Is gretech/gomtv greedy? Why not?
I just thought that example with pies was a bit stupid so I had to comment it. If you want pie then make it yourself or buy it. No need to go out and tell pie seller his dickhead and has little intelligence because dam pie costs so much. Nobody forces you to buy the god dam pie.
I'm going to get pie. And I'm pretty dam sure I can find store which will sell me a pie for 5$.
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@Ayjay,
KeSPA is an NFP. sure there are some commercial substance behind it, but for the most part KeSPA isnt there to gouge anyone.
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I think that the deal between OGN and Gretech was easier because they are both owned by CJ (so Gretech can give OGN an "easy" deal) .
This deal will be much more difficult since Gretech under the command of ActivBlizz will ask for a larger amount of money.
And for Kespa, the dispute between them and Blizz is essentially about control, not money (Kespa is a non-profit association). I don't think Korean gov will allow Blizz to have much control on this (which is better anyways, since Blizz will hyuk it up if they have control).
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On August 11 2010 00:50 regerstreen wrote:
I wonder what was the term ongamenet accepted. I hate NDAs. It's just being used to hide outrageous demands by blizzard like the one given to kespa at the beginning.
Do you mean these terms?
"KeSPA has expressed its position of being willing to pay for a rational level of usage fee and appeal its support of marketing and promotion for product line-up of Blizzard with continuous investment such as sharing all contents which belong to KeSPA like pro gamers, broadcasting and sponsorship.
However, Blizzard has asserted not the right as a copyright but unreasonable demands as following.
1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year
2. Prior approvals about all league operations such as contracting sponsorship, marketing materials, broadcasting plan
3. License fee for running of league and all license fee of sponsorship inducement
4. Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos
5. Right to audit KeSPA"
If so, 3 out of the 5 listed demands are actually insurance against events that would harm Blizzard's reputation. Prior approval of all league operations and the right to audit KeSPA make sure that KeSPA doesn't bring in an undesirable sponsor and also makes sure that they don't try to cook their books. Ownership of all media is actually a pretty standard legal thing. Ever heard that a telecast was property of the NFL, not to be used without their express, written permission? Same deal here.
Back to the topic: I really think MBCGame is trying to play victim here. Separate licenses for separate tournaments isn't something that strikes me as "asking too much." If I wanted to buy multiple software licenses for a company, I usually have to buy each one individually. Rarely are licenses grouped together (although I will admit that I've seen it before).
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On August 11 2010 00:45 AyJay wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:44 Empyrean wrote:On August 11 2010 00:40 AyJay wrote:On August 11 2010 00:35 Diminotoor wrote:
*You go to the store to buy a pie. Mmmm pie.*
*The pie you want should cost .... around $8.95, right?*
*Upon arriving in the frozen aisle, you are astonished to see your pie will cost you $130.00*
<You> Well, screw that I'll just make it myself from scratch.
*Upon tallying up all the costs for pie ingredients, its still going to cost you $110.00*
*You now must make a decision to either be down WAY more money than you logically should be, or go pie-less.*
<Friend> Man, well I just bought a pie but damn was it expensive. You gonna get one?
*Not being able to function/live without pie, you try to negotiate with the store, but the store is run by dick-heads with barely any intelligence.*
*Your family at home reminds you that you will need more pies in the upcoming months as well.*
I don't care who the "proverbial pie" "belongs" to. This sucks for the BW community. I don't know what kind of stores you have in South Korea, but stores where I live never negotiate. So I should call them dickheads? Bartering is quite common in non Canadian/American food markets. Well I'm from Europe
I bartered and negotiated with stores all the time when I was in Europe. Just because you never do it doesn't mean they wouldn't be open to it.
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I wonder where Gretech/Blizzard expects this money to come from, acting as if running pro BW is some massively profitable enterprise. Even if they make a deal it's worse than before... less money going to the teams and people running the leagues and more to people who are not involved and never have helped or done anything to benefit the scene.
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@Lysis,
Blizz's demands are absurd given the industry. MBC and OGN broadcast other games too and none of em demand terms as extreme as Blizz.
and really Blizz is over their head with this. despite popularity of SC/SC2, its actual market share in term of play time in SK is fairly small, less than 5%. Blizz's terms make it extremely unprofitable for their business partners to promote the game when you consider other developers will offer their game to be promoted at much much better terms.
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On August 11 2010 01:11 Lysis wrote:
Do you mean these terms?
"
1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year
2. Prior approvals about all league operations such as contracting sponsorship, marketing materials, broadcasting plan
3. License fee for running of league and all license fee of sponsorship inducement
4. Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos
5. Right to audit KeSPA"
If so, 3 out of the 5 listed demands are actually insurance against events that would harm Blizzard's reputation. Prior approval of all league operations and the right to audit KeSPA make sure that KeSPA doesn't bring in an undesirable sponsor and also makes sure that they don't try to cook their books. Ownership of all media is actually a pretty standard legal thing. Ever heard that a telecast was property of the NFL, not to be used without their express, written permission? Same deal here.
Those things are Blizzard's terms to Kespa, not to OGN. I suppose the terms in the NDA between OGN and Blizz are different.
To be honest I find those cited terms very unreasonable (except for terms 2 and 3) and if I am Kespa I won't accept them.
1) Set the contract term to 1 year : so the whole esport scene will fall when Blizz decides to suddenly end it. Brillant.
4) Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos : Many people contributed to create those programs, not just Blizz. There are the players who plays the game, the broadcasting company who set up all the materials to produce those games, and Blizz. Blizz can have partial ownership, not ownership. I'm pretty sure Blizz won't get this one.
5) Loool Blizz is not the parent company of Kespa or the ministry of Finance, how the hell can they have the right to audit Kespa. (and Kespa is non-profit anyways). Also Kespa have many other games that have nothing to do with Blizz, why the heck should it be "audited" by Blizz ?
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I really hope this can be resolved easily, with no negative impacts on any parties.
Thanks again milkis.<3
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On August 11 2010 01:29 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 01:11 Lysis wrote:
Do you mean these terms?
"
1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year
2. Prior approvals about all league operations such as contracting sponsorship, marketing materials, broadcasting plan
3. License fee for running of league and all license fee of sponsorship inducement
4. Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos
5. Right to audit KeSPA"
If so, 3 out of the 5 listed demands are actually insurance against events that would harm Blizzard's reputation. Prior approval of all league operations and the right to audit KeSPA make sure that KeSPA doesn't bring in an undesirable sponsor and also makes sure that they don't try to cook their books. Ownership of all media is actually a pretty standard legal thing. Ever heard that a telecast was property of the NFL, not to be used without their express, written permission? Same deal here.
Those things are Blizzard's terms to Kespa, not to OGN. I suppose the terms in the NDA between OGN and Blizz are different. To be honest I find those cited terms very unreasonable (except for terms 2 and 3) and if I am Kespa I won't accept them. 1) Set the contract term to 1 year : so the whole esport scene will fall when Blizz decides to suddenly end it. Brillant. 4) Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos : Many people contributed to create those programs, not just Blizz. There are the players who plays the game, the broadcasting company who set up all the materials to produce those games, and Blizz. Blizz can have partial ownership, not ownership. I'm pretty sure Blizz won't get this one. 5) Loool Blizz is not the parent company of Kespa or the ministry of Finance, how the hell can they have the right to audit Kespa. (and Kespa is non-profit anyways). Also Kespa have many other games that have nothing to do with Blizz, why the heck should it be "audited" by Blizz ?
All of that was awhile back, and I posted them in reply to someone saying that the (currently unknown) terms of the proposed contract were like the terms that Blizzard proposed to KeSPA when the whole IP fiasco went down. Also all of this is Gretech now, Blizzard simply gave them the exclusive broadcasting rights as well as the permission to sell those rights to other parties.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 11 2010 01:15 LegendaryZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 00:45 AyJay wrote:On August 11 2010 00:44 Empyrean wrote:On August 11 2010 00:40 AyJay wrote:On August 11 2010 00:35 Diminotoor wrote:
*You go to the store to buy a pie. Mmmm pie.*
*The pie you want should cost .... around $8.95, right?*
*Upon arriving in the frozen aisle, you are astonished to see your pie will cost you $130.00*
Well, screw that I'll just make it myself from scratch.
*Upon tallying up all the costs for pie ingredients, its still going to cost you $110.00*
*You now must make a decision to either be down WAY more money than you logically should be, or go pie-less.*
Man, well I just bought a pie but damn was it expensive. You gonna get one?
*Not being able to function/live without pie, you try to negotiate with the store, but the store is run by dick-heads with barely any intelligence.*
*Your family at home reminds you that you will need more pies in the upcoming months as well.*
I don't care who the "proverbial pie" "belongs" to. This sucks for the BW community. I don't know what kind of stores you have in South Korea, but stores where I live never negotiate. So I should call them dickheads? Bartering is quite common in non Canadian/American food markets. Well I'm from Europe I bartered and negotiated with stores all the time when I was in Europe. Just because you never do it doesn't mean they wouldn't be open to it.
I'm sure it's different from country to country - europe is a pretty big and diverse place.
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17018 Posts
On August 11 2010 01:50 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2010 01:15 LegendaryZ wrote:On August 11 2010 00:45 AyJay wrote:On August 11 2010 00:44 Empyrean wrote:On August 11 2010 00:40 AyJay wrote:On August 11 2010 00:35 Diminotoor wrote:
*You go to the store to buy a pie. Mmmm pie.*
*The pie you want should cost .... around $8.95, right?*
*Upon arriving in the frozen aisle, you are astonished to see your pie will cost you $130.00*
<You> Well, screw that I'll just make it myself from scratch.
*Upon tallying up all the costs for pie ingredients, its still going to cost you $110.00*
*You now must make a decision to either be down WAY more money than you logically should be, or go pie-less.*
<Friend> Man, well I just bought a pie but damn was it expensive. You gonna get one?
*Not being able to function/live without pie, you try to negotiate with the store, but the store is run by dick-heads with barely any intelligence.*
*Your family at home reminds you that you will need more pies in the upcoming months as well.*
I don't care who the "proverbial pie" "belongs" to. This sucks for the BW community. I don't know what kind of stores you have in South Korea, but stores where I live never negotiate. So I should call them dickheads? Bartering is quite common in non Canadian/American food markets. Well I'm from Europe I bartered and negotiated with stores all the time when I was in Europe. Just because you never do it doesn't mean they wouldn't be open to it. I'm sure it's different from country to country - europe is a pretty big and diverse place.
Yeah, I know for a fact that it happens in France (because I've done it there), but I just don't really see lots of bartering happening in, say, Iceland. And the bartering happened in small markets, not the big hypermarches that have popped up all over the country.
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Actually, i'd rage at blizz&gretech. But this MSL just sucks. As 4 Terran players are on the edge of qualifying for ro4 and my rage on terran is bigger than blizz&gretech, i won't rage here.
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Leave BW aloneeeeeeeeeeee.
Seriously though, I wish this would go over nicely, why are they feuding so much?
 (((
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You can do a lot better in negotiations when the seller actually wants you to keep buying. Dummies should have worked a deal long before Blizzard had shipped the game they want to replace BW.
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EPT
