[News] MBCGame: "Gretech is asking for too much"

"We will continue to negotiate for the safe operations of our leagues"

On August 11 2010 00:02 konadora wrote:
damn you gretech blizzard

why couldn't you just leave the bw scene alone

On August 11 2010 00:24 AyJay wrote:

Well, Kespa should have negotiated in the first place.

On August 11 2010 00:27 zenMaster wrote:

Well, Kespa didn't feel like giving Blizzard control over everything they own.

On August 11 2010 00:29 Antoine wrote:
don't think mbc has much leverage now that ogn has already entered in an agreement

On August 11 2010 00:35 Diminotoor wrote:
*You go to the store to buy a pie. Mmmm pie.*
*The pie you want should cost .... around $8.95, right?*
*Upon arriving in the frozen aisle, you are astonished to see your pie will cost you $130.00*
<You> Well, screw that I'll just make it myself from scratch.
*Upon tallying up all the costs for pie ingredients, its still going to cost you $110.00*
*You now must make a decision to either be down WAY more money than you logically should be, or go pie-less.*
<Friend> Man, well I just bought a pie but damn was it expensive. You gonna get one?
*Not being able to function/live without pie, you try to negotiate with the store, but the store is run by dick-heads with barely any intelligence.*
*Your family at home reminds you that you will need more pies in the upcoming months as well.*

I don't care who the "proverbial pie" "belongs" to. This sucks for the BW community.

On August 11 2010 00:40 AyJay wrote:

I don't know what kind of stores you have in South Korea, but stores where I live never negotiate.

So I should call them dickheads?

On August 11 2010 00:44 Empyrean wrote:


Bartering is quite common in non Canadian/American food markets.

On August 11 2010 00:49 Iplaythings wrote:

Go ahead, noone will stop you. You know you dont have to openly comment to everyone who writes something you disagree with.
Blizzard was the greedy one, even if they made the game they have the right to royalties, but nooo, they wanted broadcasting rights as well.
You might say that they deserve that as well, but they left the ladder a long time ago.

Blizzard dont make rights for the wc3 / starcraft in China, where royalties would be deserved, but broadcasting right is over the top.

To me it's like saying that some guy from England invented soccer, then broadcast rights all goes to England to administer. Even there can be made arguements for it.

On August 11 2010 00:50 regerstreen wrote:
I wonder what was the term ongamenet accepted. I hate NDAs. It's just being used to hide outrageous demands by blizzard like the one given to kespa at the beginning.

On August 11 2010 00:45 AyJay wrote:

Well I'm from Europe

On August 11 2010 01:11 Lysis wrote:

Do you mean these terms?
"
1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year
2. Prior approvals about all league operations such as contracting sponsorship, marketing materials, broadcasting plan
3. License fee for running of league and all license fee of sponsorship inducement
4. Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos
5. Right to audit KeSPA"

If so, 3 out of the 5 listed demands are actually insurance against events that would harm Blizzard's reputation. Prior approval of all league operations and the right to audit KeSPA make sure that KeSPA doesn't bring in an undesirable sponsor and also makes sure that they don't try to cook their books. Ownership of all media is actually a pretty standard legal thing. Ever heard that a telecast was property of the NFL, not to be used without their express, written permission? Same deal here.

On August 11 2010 01:29 kmdarkmaster wrote:


Those things are Blizzard's terms to Kespa, not to OGN. I suppose the terms in the NDA between OGN and Blizz are different.

To be honest I find those cited terms very unreasonable (except for terms 2 and 3) and if I am Kespa I won't accept them.

1) Set the contract term to 1 year : so the whole esport scene will fall when Blizz decides to suddenly end it. Brillant.

4) Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos : Many people contributed to create those programs, not just Blizz. There are the players who plays the game, the broadcasting company who set up all the materials to produce those games, and Blizz. Blizz can have partial ownership, not ownership. I'm pretty sure Blizz won't get this one.

5) Loool Blizz is not the parent company of Kespa or the ministry of Finance, how the hell can they have the right to audit Kespa. (and Kespa is non-profit anyways). Also Kespa have many other games that have nothing to do with Blizz, why the heck should it be "audited" by Blizz ?

On August 11 2010 01:15 LegendaryZ wrote:


I bartered and negotiated with stores all the time when I was in Europe. Just because you never do it doesn't mean they wouldn't be open to it.

On August 11 2010 01:50 Liquid`Jinro wrote:

I'm sure it's different from country to country - europe is a pretty big and diverse place.

On August 11 2010 03:55 motbob wrote:
Yeah, let's all badmouth Blizzard and Gretech based on a statement by MBC, which is surely not biased in any way.

On August 11 2010 03:59 swanized wrote:



that seems like a perfectly fine idea if you ask me


MBC are the good guys here


I hate blizzard for this

On August 11 2010 00:02 konadora wrote:
damn you gretech blizzard

why couldn't you just leave the bw scene alone

On August 11 2010 04:15 AyJay wrote:


THERE ARE NO GOOD GUYS IN BUSINESS

For the last fucking time. Every company wants some dollah and each has it's own way of achieving it: Blizzard making good games, Activision having Bobby Kodick and EA releasing tons of shitty products.

On August 11 2010 04:55 Letmelose wrote:


All companies are after money. Customers don't care about companies wanting money. What they do care, is when companies go after money when they provide nothing for the customers. Blizzard is doing nothing but creating more restrictions to television coverage for E-Sports and heightening the costs to run it. What do we get in return for all their greed? Jack shit. Fuck that.

Blizzard, stay the fuck away from E-Sports.

On August 11 2010 02:52 mucker wrote:
You can do a lot better in negotiations when the seller actually wants you to keep buying. Dummies should have worked a deal long before Blizzard had shipped the game they want to replace BW.

On August 11 2010 05:40 AyJay wrote:

Do you really think Blizzard's goal is to make e-sports in Jack shit?

On August 11 2010 05:49 Cow wrote:

Their goal is to make as much money as fucking possible, and considering what they are doing to achieve that goal, pretty much.

On August 11 2010 00:49 Iplaythings wrote:

Go ahead, noone will stop you. You know you dont have to openly comment to everyone who writes something you disagree with.
Blizzard was the greedy one, even if they made the game they have the right to royalties, but nooo, they wanted broadcasting rights as well.
You might say that they deserve that as well, but they left the ladder a long time ago.

Blizzard dont make rights for the wc3 / starcraft in China, where royalties would be deserved, but broadcasting right is over the top.

To me it's like saying that some guy from England invented soccer, then broadcast rights all goes to England to administer. Even there can be made arguements for it.

On August 11 2010 04:15 AyJay wrote:


THERE ARE NO GOOD GUYS IN BUSINESS

For the last fucking time. Every company wants some dollah and each has it's own way of achieving it: Blizzard making good games, Activision having Bobby Kodick and EA releasing tons of shitty products.

On August 11 2010 07:27 Redmark wrote:
Whether you agree with him or not, it's pretty obtuse to say something like that. Replace 'SC2' in his post with 'Brood War' and very little changes.

On August 11 2010 09:02 Motiva wrote:
lol It looks like im in the minority here, but I can't blame Blizzard or Gretech or any of this. You'd seriously have to your head in the sand to act like kespa orginially did. Furthermore, this idea that because blizzard waited until it was relevant to act, that they shouldn't have acted. This idea is inane. Blizzard should be able to do anything it wants with it's IP until a contract is formally signed. Until then, pay what you owe MBC or stfu. :-D lol. And be glad Blizzard gave you many years of glory for near-free. lol Steal and ask for me.. plz.

On August 11 2010 09:06 writer22816 wrote:


What do they owe? they spent thousands of man hours getting this game to be esport-viable, making maps, tools, investing large amounts of money, etc. blizzard has done nothing to help them out.

On August 11 2010 09:09 Motiva wrote:


lol. I have no idea what they owe, but MBC says it's too much. Perhaps owe isn't the correct word. However then you change the subject to history and go on about how some company did a bunch of work without first signing a contract with that owner of the original intellectual property. Sounds pretty foolish to me. Maybe it's not, but to then be omg you're so evil when the owner of that property finally wants it back is nothing but misinformed.

On August 11 2010 09:56 Milkis wrote:


Hanbitsoft, the publisher of SC in Korea, was a major part of getting Starcraft leagues up and running. It was kinda assumed from that point on that it was okay.

The world is never as black and white as you paint it out to be

On August 11 2010 10:18 Motiva wrote:


I'm certainly not attempting to paint the world strictly as black/white and also never did i anywhere assume i knew everything. Furthermore, I did only work with what I know (how could anyone expect otherwise) and I used words like "sounds" to attempt to illustrate this. If i came off as too definitive, my apologies.

Furthermore are you just arguing that this is also partly Hanbitsofts fault? Well aren't they on the korean side? doesn't this just further state that a lack of communication took place? I'm simply stating that a communication problem when addressing the legality of something should never be the fault of the company trying to protect their product...

The problem here is that korean companies have no leverage because blizzard prolly doesn't give a shit. For them it's prolly best if BW died and everyone played their new cute game. However ME and all of YOU want BW to live on, so we can sit and watch. This said, How is it ever the fault of the creator when the user's fail to communicate and organize properly? Though certainly inaccurate, It's almost like Kespa/korea has been driving around with it's seatbelt for years, and when the police finally give them a ticket, they're like... but... so many years.....

On August 11 2010 10:22 Milkis wrote:


I didn't say it was anyone's fault. My point was that Hanbitsoft had the "rights" to Starcraft by getting rights to publish it in Korea. Secondly, Blizzard completely knew about the leagues for the longest time and did not intervene until 2007.

You're not repeating anything new. If you truly think Korean companies have no leverage then you're truly at the wrong site. Secondly, it honestly sounds like you're just spewing words without fully understanding the entire situation -- I recommend digging through the old KeSPA - Blizzard threads to find out more about the argument before you continue because to put it bluntly you have no idea what the hell is going on.

On August 11 2010 00:40 AyJay wrote:

I don't know what kind of stores you have in South Korea, but stores where I live never negotiate.

So I should call them dickheads?

On August 11 2010 10:40 Motiva wrote:


LOL I never said i was repeating anything new, (EDIT: How do you repeat something that is new anyway?) and i'm well informed of the situation, but quite franky I identifiy with assumptions not being binding and USA IP laws being laws far more than I sympathize with competitive video games as a medium for entertainment... (quick start typing up your response to this simplification before you give me a chance)

LOL Why are you posting to disput personal commentary in a thread. I was simply trying to make a point that the pennies blizzard can gain from this aren't very great. I don't truly believe the korean companies have zero leverage. I do however see the majority of the posts in this thread say they have more than they do. Blizzard hardly cares, they're worried about their new game, and that's the point I was intending to make. I suppose your taking this too seriously for me, because to me this is just standard US proceedure. Company oversteps it's bound, feels entitlted, gets slapped, life goes on.

You're gonna accuse me of over-genralizing by painting everything in absolutes, and then in the next post question my understanding... how about lay off the personal attacks.... If saying something new was required, this whole thread should have been closed with just the OP.

Furthermore, The history is largely irrelevant. (to my posts) Blizzard is being generous because the korean companies DO have leverage. I'm sorry if you feel i need to document the differences in personal opinion and actual reality in all of my posts, but I would ask you to do the same. But then we're stuck in the situation of never actually discussing anything because any discordance on reality would quickly result in the revelation that no one knows anything.

Not trying to get all philosophical, but seriously "your not repeating anything new" could be said to almost every single post in this thread... Like your own, Why are you replying?

Can either of us vouch for these companies? Do you think blizzard doesn't have a team of lawyers +more calculating their every move INCLUDING all of this?! Seriously. Blizzard didn't act until it was relevant because it wasn't relevant. If blizzard pursued every breach of ToS everytime it happened, they'd prolly lose an even greater % of their profit margin...

With your ending remarks of that last post, and having read just about everything on TL i can on the subject. I suppose since this is just so fucking simple why didn't we just call em up and solve it for them? Or how about this, everything we say is bindning and all discussion has to go through our lawyers. Or how about I go in to a thread, read a 1000% msgs about how some company made a product and that product was used illegally for years, and they seemed aliright wirth it, and then one day they weren't. and so that company is evil, and I disagree with that analysis of the situation. Should I insult your understanding for that?

EDIT: I suppose I'll mention that I think blizzard is largely irrelevant to this, and furthermore, Kespa or whoever thought they had the rights was being absolutely irresponsible to think that VIVIDENDI would just wave their hand and say NPNPNP... I'd expect nothing less from vividendi than what's happening now. I'm sure their shareholders feel the same. (ya ya acti-blizz is it's own stock, ya ya)

On August 11 2010 10:59 Milkis wrote:


Blizzard was 100% fine with what was going on in the scene until 2007. That's 7 years of Blizzard being okay with what was going on in the Korea.

What's your point? To Blizzard, it's honestly not about profit, it's more about their intellectual property which they felt was abused by what happened in 2007. "History is not relevant"?, it's 100% about history and which is 100% reason why KeSPA and Blizzard are on such bad terms at this point.

I haven't made a personal attack. If you think me calling you uninformed is an attack then I honestly have nothing more to say since it honestly looks like I won't be able to knock you off of your high horse because you seem to at least pretend to know what's going on.

I have never implied that the situation was simple in any sort of way. I have implied that it's a lot more complicated than what you are saying, that is simply it. Either case, you seem to have overreacted quite a bit, and honestly I have zero intention of going further in this discussion until you're actually willing to listen and not just spew more stuff. But seriously, I don't think anyone will be taking you remotely seriously after your last few posts.

On August 11 2010 11:23 Motiva wrote:


I have trouble not laughing histerically at your post I already have nevermind. You constantly make pokes at me and then say it's because of my high horse tactics. Let's go back to why i made my original post, I'll hold your hand through this the whole way, because as it seems, we don't even really disagree about much.

I came to this thread, read the lastest, browsed through the posts in this thread. some of these posts were very anti-blizzard. I personally believe that Blizzard is in the right. This might be the only place we disagree.

I then vented my frustration stating that IP Laws > Assumptions in many more, less elegant terms. As well as some personal commentary, because, I am not a robot.

You then reply, stating my ignornace, while at the same time having a large ignornace about my knowledge-base. How is this a founded contribution to this thread? Let alone not a personal attack? I guess my horse is too tall for you? (even though it's really just a pony) however, The wind must have caught your words, because you did mention something I overlooked, and I acknowledged it in my later post.

Anyway, I don't really wanna go stepby step and hold your hand. However, if you actually have an argument that disagrees with something I said, rather than making a tiny point, and then agreeing with me while calling me ignorant.

Kespa has no innate right to exist. Blizzard has no innate right to exist. Laws decreed from the people give corporations the right to exist. Further laws give said corporations the right to claim their creations theirs. Further laws give said corporations the rights to claim terms of use over their products in many regards. Do you disagree with any of this? If you do, well then, ofc your on the side of kespa, of course you want to watch more SC:BW. I however, want the law to be upheld, and assumption to be non-binding. Contracts > Assumptions.

Kespa/hanbit/insert relative korean company all dropped the ball...

OMG 7 years blizzard knew? really? Are their rights suspended? This is total nonsense and has nothing to do with the situation in my opinion. I don't care if it was 700 years, if blizzard comes back from the moon and says mine. YOU GIVE THEM THEIRS. Sorry if you can't take me seriously, but i'd think you were not reading and trolling, but due to the icon, i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and just assuming (yes non-binding) that your misunderstanding me, because we agree on the terms of reality, just not the morals (Assumption: You think kespa breaking the law is legal).

EDIT: Or yea, just post to make a bunch of assumptions and then instead of actually pressing everything out and generating something worthy of discussion, you can just assume i'm not listening and do the same. If your too frail to proceed with a standard101 internet discussion, you prolly shouldn't have made your first post. Furthermore, if you think i'm overreacting, well i'm sorry, but i actually read words for what they means, and while I thank you for mentioning something i prolly should have mentioned, you prolly shouldn't pair it with assumptions on my worldview (or even what you think i meant) if your not even open to conversation.

On August 11 2010 11:54 Lightwip wrote:

Are you really trying to prove your point with personal attacks on the translator? I hardly see any arguments within your post. It's quite clear you have no idea what you are talking about.
If Blizzard came back 700 years later, they would have no more claim to their product by law. I hardly think you're qualified to argue on this topic if you didn't even know that. The IP dispute hasn't gone through court yet, so you can't really say it's against the law. Just that KeSPA stands to lose more in court than Blizzard so they would prefer to avoid that option.

On August 11 2010 00:44 Empyrean wrote:


Bartering is quite common in non Canadian/American food markets.

On August 11 2010 00:28 AyJay wrote:

Well, Blizzard will control everything they own anyway

On August 11 2010 13:08 Scaramanga wrote:

Ahaha we have a blizzard fanboy, thats terrible

Motiva can you please stop posting page long posts that are 10% argument and 90% attacks on starred users

On August 11 2010 15:38 MuffinDude wrote:
Yo guys, its not blizzard thats trying to take control of the pro BW scene, its Activision blizzard. Fuck bobby kotick.

But yea, activison blizzard is ridiculous in their claims.

On August 11 2010 16:50 robertdinh wrote:


People scapegoat activision way too much when it comes to blizzard actions. Mind you activision is just as greedy and ridiculous as blizzard, but they did not corrupt blizzard.

Blizzard was just as moneygrubbing as activision before they merged, it all began with the development of world of warcraft. The philosophy behind blizzard shifted and there was a mass exodus of original blizz developers (a lot of which tried to start up their own game studios to varying degrees of success) because they felt the company's mentality had changed too much and it had become simply about profit profit profit.

Blizzard can still make high "quality" games because of the sheer funding and size of their development teams, but they don't truly care about things like competitive gaming, they only paint the illusion of caring at times because they have deemed it profitable to appear that way and people gobble it up so easily.

Look at how easily people have gobbled up the SC2 hype and things like the GSL.

Starcraft2 might as well be named New Kids on the Block and have a slogan of "all the cool kids are doing it".

On August 11 2010 16:50 robertdinh wrote:


People scapegoat activision way too much when it comes to blizzard actions. Mind you activision is just as greedy and ridiculous as blizzard, but they did not corrupt blizzard.

Blizzard was just as moneygrubbing as activision before they merged, it all began with the development of world of warcraft. The philosophy behind blizzard shifted and there was a mass exodus of original blizz developers (a lot of which tried to start up their own game studios to varying degrees of success) because they felt the company's mentality had changed too much and it had become simply about profit profit profit.

Blizzard can still make high "quality" games because of the sheer funding and size of their development teams, but they don't truly care about things like competitive gaming, they only paint the illusion of caring at times because they have deemed it profitable to appear that way and people gobble it up so easily.

Look at how easily people have gobbled up the SC2 hype and things like the GSL.

Starcraft2 might as well be named New Kids on the Block and have a slogan of "all the cool kids are doing it".

On August 11 2010 17:13 Catch]22 wrote:


The best way to make your point on a SC/SC2 site is to call people who like SC2 morons who are deluded by hype.

On August 11 2010 17:25 moopie wrote:

For the most part he brings up a good point, and nowhere in his post did he call TLers 'morons'. SC2 was hyped to hell and back btw (in case you missed it), and while its a good game (excluding the bnet 2.0 fiasco) its still trading on its predecessor's name. Time will tell if it will actually develop enough and be able to stand on its own as an esport.

On August 11 2010 13:08 Scaramanga wrote:

Ahaha we have a blizzard fanboy, thats terrible

Motiva can you please stop posting page long posts that are 10% argument and 90% attacks on starred users

On August 11 2010 18:18 AyJay wrote:

Fanboy or not, it's happening. Blizzard will control everything.

On August 11 2010 16:50 robertdinh wrote:


People scapegoat activision way too much when it comes to blizzard actions. Mind you activision is just as greedy and ridiculous as blizzard, but they did not corrupt blizzard.

Blizzard was just as moneygrubbing as activision before they merged, it all began with the development of world of warcraft. The philosophy behind blizzard shifted and there was a mass exodus of original blizz developers (a lot of which tried to start up their own game studios to varying degrees of success) because they felt the company's mentality had changed too much and it had become simply about profit profit profit.

Blizzard can still make high "quality" games because of the sheer funding and size of their development teams, but they don't truly care about things like competitive gaming, they only paint the illusion of caring at times because they have deemed it profitable to appear that way and people gobble it up so easily.

Look at how easily people have gobbled up the SC2 hype and things like the GSL.

Starcraft2 might as well be named New Kids on the Block and have a slogan of "all the cool kids are doing it".

On August 11 2010 18:10 Avrithor wrote:

No, he didn't use the word 'morons' explicitly. But the post does imply that anyone who likes SC2/is excited about its potential future is delusional and just mindlessly eating up hype, so that they can't see the obvious, inarguable truth of his position, which is baseless and insulting to anyone who's not an SC2 hater.

He doesn't make a good point at all. Questionable decision-making on a hyped game doesn't necessarily mean that they don't care and the hype is a propaganda campaign to brainwash people into thinking they do care. That's ridiculous. You have to remember that Blizzard is not a monolithic entity. The devs, or some of the devs, might have argued for things that TL would have liked better, only to be shot down; or in some cases the execs might have asked about something, and been talked out of it. Or whatever. But *regardless of what happens*, the PR department's job is to hype the hell out of it and sell it. They aren't involved in any of those other decisions, and it's not like Browder would have gone to the marketing guys and said, "Hey, we've decided we don't care about competitive gaming anymore, we're just going to throw darts to make decisions about mechanics and B.net2 and spend the extra manhours jacking off, can you whip up some things to convince the sheeple that we do still care?" What do you think is more likely, that, or that they honestly do care and want to make the best competitive game they can, and just had poor decision-making for any number of reasons that have nothing to do with caring or intent?

On August 11 2010 18:20 MuffinDude wrote:

They will control nothing as when they try to control the progaming scene, it'll die and they have nothing to control, as a result, they will control nothing.

On August 11 2010 19:58 moopie wrote:

Frank Pearce has spoken.

Seriously though, if blizzard can't squeeze money out of OGN/MBC they wouldn't think twice about killing off BW, simply because it serves as direct competition to their new shiny toy. They're doing their best to milk korea as much as they can, regardless of who gets hurt in the process.

On August 11 2010 19:49 AyJay wrote:


As long as people are interested in Sc/sc2 there will be progaming scene.

On August 12 2010 00:20 MICHELLE wrote:
I seriously just wish that SC2 buzz will evaporate and that there will be no pro gaming scene for it. I just feel that it docent deserve it, at least for now.

On August 11 2010 23:39 Milkis wrote:


Because there's a progaming scene in every other game people are interested in, right? It doesn't quite work that way

On August 12 2010 01:21 TheAntZ wrote:


yeah what the fuck, none of the arguments you post ever make sense AyJay. You just furiously keep on acting as if blizzard was god, and sc2 was the physical manifestation of the best blowjob given
chill the hell out, just because its a good RTS doesnt mean it will or deserves to replace a game that has a ton more depth and a firm foundation RIGHT NOW. It might be ready at some point to do so, but sc2 as it is now is not a match for BW in terms of entertainment and depth. And dont fall back to the default 'OMG ONLY BEEN FEW DAYS SINCE RELEASE' crap. I'm talking about the present, already acknowledged that sc2 may be ready to replace BW in the future. Right now it isnt.

On August 12 2010 02:34 AyJay wrote:


I don't know why people is saying Brood war is better than Starcraft 2. To my eyes it's still same old starcraft with new and diffrent strategies. I think Starcraft2 has a lot of depth and is extremely entertaining (I will even point out that people like husky and hd have 165,000 subscribers - people who are waiting for them to pump out more starcraft2 videos and that is HUGE.)

I never said sc2 should replace BW. I think they can happily live together as long as there are people interested in watching both games.

I'm posting my opinion and my views no need to get mad over it.

On August 12 2010 03:27 Random() wrote:
I see no problem with Blizzard's position. "But they didn't care for 7 years" is such a bad argument.

It's like you took your neighbour's unique ball while he wasn't looking and used it to play a great spectacular game for 7 years, gathering a lot of fans and making money from broadcasts. Nobody cared that it wasn't your ball.

Then the neighbour comes and says "Hey, that's my ball! If you don't want me to take it away from you you have to pay me something!". And the fans are all over him booing and telling him what a fucked up greedy idiot he is, but they don't want to give up his ball because it's better that any ball ever made and no other ball will make the game so spectacular.

Well, bad luck. You should have asked him if it was OK to play with his ball (and make money off it) long ago.

On August 12 2010 03:27 Random() wrote:
I see no problem with Blizzard's position. "But they didn't care for 7 years" is such a bad argument.

It's like you took your neighbour's unique ball while he wasn't looking and used it to play a great spectacular game for 7 years, gathering a lot of fans and making money from broadcasts. Nobody cared that it wasn't your ball.

Then the neighbour comes and says "Hey, that's my ball! If you don't want me to take it away from you you have to pay me something!". And the fans are all over him booing and telling him what a fucked up greedy idiot he is, but they don't want to give up his ball because it's better that any ball ever made and no other ball will make the game so spectacular.

Well, bad luck. You should have asked him if it was OK to play with his ball (and make money off it) long ago.

On August 12 2010 03:24 2Pacalypse- wrote:

People are saying that BW is better than SC2 because BW IS better than SC2. Maybe there isn't a scientific explanation on why this is, but this doesn't make it any less of a fact.

On August 12 2010 03:27 Random() wrote:
I see no problem with Blizzard's position. "But they didn't care for 7 years" is such a bad argument.

It's like you took your neighbour's unique ball while he wasn't looking and used it to play a great spectacular game for 7 years, gathering a lot of fans and making money from broadcasts. Nobody cared that it wasn't your ball.

Then the neighbour comes and says "Hey, that's my ball! If you don't want me to take it away from you you have to pay me something!". And the fans are all over him booing and telling him what a fucked up greedy idiot he is, but they don't want to give up his ball because it's better that any ball ever made and no other ball will make the game so spectacular.

Well, bad luck. You should have asked him if it was OK to play with his ball (and make money off it) long ago.

On August 12 2010 03:38 AyJay wrote:

Lol dude that is just your personal opinion.

I find sc2 more entertaining than BW, yet you find SC2 more entertaining than Sc2 and yet theres this guy who finds Modern Warfare 2 kicks everyone's ass. So which game is better?

Their all great and their is no need for discussions.

On August 12 2010 03:35 Milkis wrote:
What if your neighbor was one of the people watching the game? And they even got your players to come to their conventions and represent the game? It's not like the neighbor just ignored it, but he partook in the activities passively.

The entire IP issue comes from KeSPA selling broadcasting rights to OGN/MBC. Without that happening, Blizzard would have never, ever, cared. Yes, KeSPA isn't innocent, but it's not exactly fair for Blizzard to be so possessive to the point that it's hurting the broadcasters and the fans. Blizzard's enemy is KeSPA and they should be playing nice to the broadcasters to win them over, not just make their lives worse through this "business strategy". Blizzard's end goal should be concentrated on the KeSPA executive office, not on anyone else.

One way of doing this was to let MSL/OSL happen without an issue, but create issues with the Proleague until KeSPA gives in. Remember that the MBC/OGN negotiations are going on separately from KeSPA's.

On August 12 2010 04:08 Random() wrote:


If I got the gist of this whole story right, Blizzard tried to solve this quietly before taking drastic measures. KeSPA blew those negotiations by badmouthing and disrespecting Blizzard and Blizzard had to sign a deal on the broadcasting rights with Gretech. How Gretech, now the official and rightful owner of the broadcasting rights, decides to sublicense those rights is their own business. It does not surprise me at all to see them acting like jerks remembering how KeSPA and the channels butchered the GOM TV tournament.

That said, I agree that fans are the ones who get hurt most in the end, which is very depressing. But all the parties involved are equally guilty, I just don't like people painting Blizzard as the greed incarnate when them protecting their rightful interests is all they do. Maybe myself being a developer makes me more likely to see where they are coming from, I don't know.

On August 12 2010 04:19 Milkis wrote:
I don't know enough about KeSPA - Blizzard relationships during that time, so I can't really comment. However, I can also see why KeSPA didn't agree to Blizzard's terms, as I do think Blizzard is being far too possessive. I don't think they understand "eSports" and only care about making sure they're not "wronged" in some way or another (tbh, I don't think they're being wronged but I can see why they'd feel that way).

KeSPA and the channels didn't butcher GomTV, but it was a decision of several of the proteams to simply not participate in the Gom Leagues after KeSPA decided they weren't official matches anymore. Considering Gom Never did too well in Korea, due to production qualities (bad Korean commentators, "disagreeable" tournament formats, etc), I wouldn't be surprised that decision was based on other teams wanting to concentrate on the other leagues since all those games going on IS stressful to the players no matter how you cut it.

Even then, I don't think it's the channels' fault, and I don't see why the channels even have to buy sublicenses, especially at supposedly high prices. MBC Game isn't doing too well overall from what I see from netizens and I'm hoping this won't tip them over the edge. Simply put, I disagree with how Gretech and Blizzard are planning on running the show, and I don't think it's good for the scene in the long run, or even the short run.

On August 12 2010 00:20 MICHELLE wrote:
I seriously just wish that SC2 buzz will evaporate and that there will be no pro gaming scene for it. I just feel that it docent deserve it, at least for now.

On August 12 2010 03:51 2Pacalypse- wrote:

I wasn't talking about which game you or I find more entertaining. Or in fact, which game do we LIKE more.

I was simply stating which game is BETTER (mostly in terms of skill requiring to play each), and in that case the winner is clear.

On August 12 2010 05:21 AyJay wrote:

To you BW is better because it requires more skill, to other guy this game is better because of the new strategies or maybe shinier graphics or maybe it's better because he finds it bearable to play and watch. There are many reasons why this guy says X game is better than Y game. You get my point.

On August 12 2010 07:39 moopie wrote:

That analogy would work if you took your neighbor's ball and played with it, and for 7 year's he'd brag to the neighborhood about how awesome his ball is and how its great to see you play with it. After 7 years, suddenly your neighbor goes "how dare you play with my ball, give me $$$!".

On August 12 2010 09:50 bearbuddy wrote:
Was the right to broadcast explicitly stated in Brood War's terms of contract?

Brood War is kinda sold as a product as well, so the ball analogy will be people bought the replica of the balls, learned ways to play them, and earned money from showing people the innovative ways they play with the balls.

Well, analogies are over-simplifications of the matter at hand and is merely sophistry for moral debate.

On August 12 2010 03:43 rasers wrote:

with the big difference that the neighbour (Blizzard) saw Kespa taking the ball.

@above me... well u mb like SCII but there are some people who say its alrdy better then SC:BW for esports. and that is just bullcrap and yeah because the game is only out for 2 3 weeks.

On August 12 2010 10:35 FabledIntegral wrote:
I honestly preferred the GSLs (if you wanted to call them that, which a lot of people did, despite not actually being starleagues) over the MSL and OSLs due to the English commentary.

On August 12 2010 10:15 Lokian wrote:

Blizzard saw Kespa taking the ball. Blizzard tried to negotiate with Kespa, but after three years, Kespa still think nothing will change if nothing is agreed upon.

Well too late for Kespa, the ball was handed to someone else after three years of haggling.

Even though Blizzard was being nice and tried to work with Kespa, Kespa started to get even more mean near the end when blizz tried to host tournaments but Kespa pulled the ball away once again.

I still don't understand why Kespa is being so greedy with the e-sports scene. It could've been more big with them (thats when all the foreign folks started to recognize the korean SC scene), and they would get more money in the long run, but they were just too afraid they would lose the ball forever I guess.

Well, its finally happened. The ball has been pryed away from Kespa's grasp, and the scene won't be limited to Korea. That sux doesn't it.

On August 12 2010 10:15 Lokian wrote:
Well, its finally happened. The ball has been pryed away from Kespa's grasp, and the scene won't be limited to Korea. That sux doesn't it.

On August 12 2010 14:42 okum wrote:

That pesky Kespa, blocking foreign BW during all these years.

On August 12 2010 10:15 Lokian wrote:
Well, its finally happened. The ball has been pryed away from Kespa's grasp, and the scene won't be limited to Korea. That sux doesn't it.

On August 12 2010 15:47 regerstreen wrote:
It's amusing how those newcomers somehow reach a conclusion that kespa was scheming all along to prevent esports from developing in the west

On August 12 2010 16:43 Comet702 wrote:
Hi TLers, Comet from wfbrood.com(China).
I have translated this news into Chinese and posted on wfbrood.com. Now I bring the feedback from China back to here.
It's no surprise to find that almost all the Chinese fans who have read this news have showed their angry to BLZ or GomTV, fans just want to watch the game and don't care aboout anything like licensing fee or whatever. They want BLZ and GomTV know that "Running your sc2 and plz let BW alone, we love this game!"

On August 12 2010 15:34 Mindcrime wrote:


wtf are you talking about

On August 12 2010 18:30 newvsoldschool wrote:


He did come off as rude, but do you honestly not see that Blizzard can (and is trying to) globalize e-sports, unlike KeSPA?

On August 12 2010 18:36 aimaimaim wrote:


no .. heres an example .. that game called W.O.W. and WC3 ..

WoW boasting 10 million users World wide .. not a single proscene that can be compared to BW ..

WC3 .. shiny .. had the potential .. was dominated by chinese and koreans and a stong french dude .. poorly developed and patched .. mediocre proscene .. CS has a bigger proscene outside Korea than this .. dominated by 1 race in-game ..

also .. culture differences, mentality towards e-games, and the lack of hard core fan base, AND ABOVE ALL .. Talent

On August 12 2010 18:44 newvsoldschool wrote:


Well this is Starcraft, not any of those games. Starcraft was made with race balance in mind. Blizzard's efforts towards putting those two other games in a limelight as a competitive sport isn't as great as Starcraft's, or they wouldn't go this far.

WoW is a terribly imbalanced game, virtually no skill required aside from very few certain combination of class/specs, and the competitive scene and overall skill requirement is a huge joke.

I have no strong opinion of WC3, but from what I've seen it's just the same way Terrans have dominated BW pro scene in its early years. One incredibly talented player decided to play his favorite race, and because he's probably more skilled than anyone else, it has made the illusion that it's imbalanced towards his race.

On August 12 2010 18:30 newvsoldschool wrote:


He did come off as rude, but do you honestly not see that Blizzard can (and is trying to) globalize e-sports, unlike KeSPA?

On August 12 2010 18:18 aimaimaim wrote:
and all of you who are talking about BW being played outside korea .. yeah we have that .. its called WORLD CYBER GAMES ...

On August 12 2010 20:32 AyJay wrote:


and Blizzcon. So what? 2 tournaments in 1 year is not enough to keep foreign BW scene alive.

On August 12 2010 18:30 newvsoldschool wrote:


He did come off as rude, but do you honestly not see that Blizzard can (and is trying to) globalize e-sports, unlike KeSPA?

On August 12 2010 12:05 wiesel wrote:


pfftff. BW without korean screamings? blasphemy.. But yea a lots of the new people who just found out about sc in '08 enjoyed the english commentary.

On August 12 2010 18:30 newvsoldschool wrote:


He did come off as rude, but do you honestly not see that Blizzard can (and is trying to) globalize e-sports, unlike KeSPA?

On August 13 2010 04:37 Mindcrime wrote:


Where has Blizzard been for the last decade?

What is Blizzard doing for BW now?

-_-

On August 13 2010 04:46 AyJay wrote:

but do you still think that Blizzard can't globalize e-sports?

On August 13 2010 05:45 moopie wrote:

Can't? Blizzard/Activision theoretically could finance a new space program with their funding.. that doesn't mean that they will.

On August 13 2010 05:46 AyJay wrote:

Why not?

On August 13 2010 05:52 moopie wrote:

Cause for the 10th time (at least) in this thread, its not in their best interest. Planning tournaments takes a lot of time, effort and money. They are not looking to support a pro scene for a decade. They are going to try to throw money at it for a year or two, get the sales that the hype generates, and move on, as they always have.

On August 13 2010 06:28 moopie wrote:

Yes, so they could try to capitalize on the Korean market, which they were shut out from (and had absolutely nothing to do with as far as its growth). Korea developed BW into an e-sport on their own, without any support from Blizzard. Blizzard never envisioned it would be a professional e-sport when they released it, I don't think anyone did. But Korea suceceded, got teams set up, sponsors, regular leagues and made BW huge.

Blizzard decided they wanted a piece of that cake and tried to strong-arm KeSPA. KeSPA told them to piss off with their demands. Blizzard then tried to get in through GOM, and failed miserably. Now they are threatning to kill all of BW, all to make a buck.

On August 11 2010 04:15 AyJay wrote:
THERE ARE NO GOOD GUYS IN BUSINESS

For the last fucking time. Every company wants some dollah and each has it's own way of achieving it: Blizzard making good games, Activision having Bobby Kodick and EA releasing tons of shitty products.

On August 13 2010 06:39 TeWy wrote:
It's funny, no one knows the MBC turnover nor has any idea about how much money Gretech is asking, but most of the people are still going to take sides for one camp, no matter how clueless they are about the whole issue.

On August 13 2010 06:24 AyJay wrote:

Does it explain why Blizzard had thrown money in 2007 for GomTV?