A personnel of MBC Game has stated that "The monetary amount Gretech is requesting is a lot higher than the amount we were thinking. Also, they are demanding that we must make a contract for every contest that uses Starcraft, so they are arguing that we have to pay the licensing fee for both Bigfile MSL and Gyongnam STX Cup. Because of that, it is more difficult for us to reach a conclusion than Ongamenet". He added that "We will continue to negotiate for the safe operations of our leagues"
[News] MBCGame: "Gretech is asking for too much"
Forum Index > BW General |
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Milkis
5003 Posts
A personnel of MBC Game has stated that "The monetary amount Gretech is requesting is a lot higher than the amount we were thinking. Also, they are demanding that we must make a contract for every contest that uses Starcraft, so they are arguing that we have to pay the licensing fee for both Bigfile MSL and Gyongnam STX Cup. Because of that, it is more difficult for us to reach a conclusion than Ongamenet". He added that "We will continue to negotiate for the safe operations of our leagues" | ||
nath
United States1788 Posts
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Crunchums
United States11143 Posts
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Issor
United States870 Posts
Hopefully this turns out well. can't imagine SCBW having only one big league. | ||
konadora
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Singapore66072 Posts
why couldn't you just leave the bw scene alone | ||
J1.au
Australia3596 Posts
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Scaramanga
Australia8090 Posts
hf figguring that one out | ||
meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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Subversive
Australia2229 Posts
It'd be a very sad day for broodwar if this threatened the stability of the MSL ![]() | ||
NuKedUFirst
Canada3139 Posts
"We will continue to negotiate for the safe operations of our leagues" It's okay guys, we're safe. | ||
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Hyde
Australia14568 Posts
I hope things work out. | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:02 konadora wrote: damn you why couldn't you just leave the bw scene alone Well, Kespa should have negotiated in the first place. | ||
zenMaster
Canada761 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:24 AyJay wrote: Well, Kespa should have negotiated in the first place. Well, Kespa didn't feel like giving Blizzard control over everything they own. | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:27 zenMaster wrote: Well, Kespa didn't feel like giving Blizzard control over everything they own. Well, Blizzard will control everything they own anyway | ||
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Antoine
United States7481 Posts
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motbob
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United States12546 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:29 Antoine wrote: don't think mbc has much leverage now that ogn has already entered in an agreement They might be able to negotiate a lump payment so that they can run multiple tournaments. If they're being truthful in their statement, that would solve the problems that they've been having. | ||
sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
*The pie you want should cost .... around $8.95, right?* *Upon arriving in the frozen aisle, you are astonished to see your pie will cost you $130.00* <You> Well, screw that I'll just make it myself from scratch. *Upon tallying up all the costs for pie ingredients, its still going to cost you $110.00* *You now must make a decision to either be down WAY more money than you logically should be, or go pie-less.* <Friend> Man, well I just bought a pie but damn was it expensive. You gonna get one? *Not being able to function/live without pie, you try to negotiate with the store, but the store is run by dick-heads with barely any intelligence.* *Your family at home reminds you that you will need more pies in the upcoming months as well.* I don't care who the "proverbial pie" "belongs" to. This sucks for the BW community. | ||
Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
*The pie you want should cost .... around $8.95, right?* *Upon arriving in the frozen aisle, you are astonished to see your pie will cost you $130.00* <You> Well, screw that I'll just make it myself from scratch. *Upon tallying up all the costs for pie ingredients, its still going to cost you $110.00* *You now must make a decision to either be down WAY more money than you logically should be, or go pie-less.* <Friend> Man, well I just bought a pie but damn was it expensive. You gonna get one? *Not being able to function/live without pie, you try to negotiate with the store, but the store is run by puppets of Bob Kotick and friends.* | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:35 Diminotoor wrote: *You go to the store to buy a pie. Mmmm pie.* *The pie you want should cost .... around $8.95, right?* *Upon arriving in the frozen aisle, you are astonished to see your pie will cost you $130.00* <You> Well, screw that I'll just make it myself from scratch. *Upon tallying up all the costs for pie ingredients, its still going to cost you $110.00* *You now must make a decision to either be down WAY more money than you logically should be, or go pie-less.* <Friend> Man, well I just bought a pie but damn was it expensive. You gonna get one? *Not being able to function/live without pie, you try to negotiate with the store, but the store is run by dick-heads with barely any intelligence.* *Your family at home reminds you that you will need more pies in the upcoming months as well.* I don't care who the "proverbial pie" "belongs" to. This sucks for the BW community. I don't know what kind of stores you have in South Korea, but stores where I live never negotiate. So I should call them dickheads? | ||
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Empyrean
16951 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:40 AyJay wrote: I don't know what kind of stores you have in South Korea, but stores where I live never negotiate. So I should call them dickheads? Bartering is quite common in non Canadian/American food markets. | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:44 Empyrean wrote: Bartering is quite common in non Canadian/American food markets. Well I'm from Europe | ||
Iplaythings
Denmark9110 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:40 AyJay wrote: I don't know what kind of stores you have in South Korea, but stores where I live never negotiate. So I should call them dickheads? Go ahead, noone will stop you. You know you dont have to openly comment to everyone who writes something you disagree with. Blizzard was the greedy one, even if they made the game they have the right to royalties, but nooo, they wanted broadcasting rights as well. You might say that they deserve that as well, but they left the ladder a long time ago. Blizzard dont make rights for the wc3 / starcraft in China, where royalties would be deserved, but broadcasting right is over the top. To me it's like saying that some guy from England invented soccer, then broadcast rights all goes to England to administer. Even there can be made arguements for it. | ||
Zona
40426 Posts
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regerstreen
Canada57 Posts
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dybydx
Canada1764 Posts
Blizz only think about their own IP right but does not consider the contribution of the networks, KeSPA and the players which made all of this possible. Blizz has been the greatest beneficiary of all this hard work, yet this is how they respond to those who helped them so much - by driving them out of business. | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:49 Iplaythings wrote: Go ahead, noone will stop you. You know you dont have to openly comment to everyone who writes something you disagree with. Blizzard was the greedy one, even if they made the game they have the right to royalties, but nooo, they wanted broadcasting rights as well. You might say that they deserve that as well, but they left the ladder a long time ago. Blizzard dont make rights for the wc3 / starcraft in China, where royalties would be deserved, but broadcasting right is over the top. To me it's like saying that some guy from England invented soccer, then broadcast rights all goes to England to administer. Even there can be made arguements for it. Was Blizzard greedy? Yes. Was Kespa greedy? Hell yeah. Is gretech/gomtv greedy? Why not? I just thought that example with pies was a bit stupid so I had to comment it. If you want pie then make it yourself or buy it. No need to go out and tell pie seller his dickhead and has little intelligence because dam pie costs so much. Nobody forces you to buy the god dam pie. I'm going to get pie. And I'm pretty dam sure I can find store which will sell me a pie for 5$. | ||
dybydx
Canada1764 Posts
KeSPA is an NFP. sure there are some commercial substance behind it, but for the most part KeSPA isnt there to gouge anyone. | ||
kmdarkmaster
France188 Posts
This deal will be much more difficult since Gretech under the command of ActivBlizz will ask for a larger amount of money. And for Kespa, the dispute between them and Blizz is essentially about control, not money (Kespa is a non-profit association). I don't think Korean gov will allow Blizz to have much control on this (which is better anyways, since Blizz will hyuk it up if they have control). | ||
Lysis
United States147 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:50 regerstreen wrote: I wonder what was the term ongamenet accepted. I hate NDAs. It's just being used to hide outrageous demands by blizzard like the one given to kespa at the beginning. Do you mean these terms? "KeSPA has expressed its position of being willing to pay for a rational level of usage fee and appeal its support of marketing and promotion for product line-up of Blizzard with continuous investment such as sharing all contents which belong to KeSPA like pro gamers, broadcasting and sponsorship. However, Blizzard has asserted not the right as a copyright but unreasonable demands as following. 1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year 2. Prior approvals about all league operations such as contracting sponsorship, marketing materials, broadcasting plan 3. License fee for running of league and all license fee of sponsorship inducement 4. Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos 5. Right to audit KeSPA" If so, 3 out of the 5 listed demands are actually insurance against events that would harm Blizzard's reputation. Prior approval of all league operations and the right to audit KeSPA make sure that KeSPA doesn't bring in an undesirable sponsor and also makes sure that they don't try to cook their books. Ownership of all media is actually a pretty standard legal thing. Ever heard that a telecast was property of the NFL, not to be used without their express, written permission? Same deal here. Back to the topic: I really think MBCGame is trying to play victim here. Separate licenses for separate tournaments isn't something that strikes me as "asking too much." If I wanted to buy multiple software licenses for a company, I usually have to buy each one individually. Rarely are licenses grouped together (although I will admit that I've seen it before). | ||
LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
I bartered and negotiated with stores all the time when I was in Europe. Just because you never do it doesn't mean they wouldn't be open to it. | ||
infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
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dybydx
Canada1764 Posts
Blizz's demands are absurd given the industry. MBC and OGN broadcast other games too and none of em demand terms as extreme as Blizz. and really Blizz is over their head with this. despite popularity of SC/SC2, its actual market share in term of play time in SK is fairly small, less than 5%. Blizz's terms make it extremely unprofitable for their business partners to promote the game when you consider other developers will offer their game to be promoted at much much better terms. | ||
kmdarkmaster
France188 Posts
On August 11 2010 01:11 Lysis wrote: Do you mean these terms? " 1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year 2. Prior approvals about all league operations such as contracting sponsorship, marketing materials, broadcasting plan 3. License fee for running of league and all license fee of sponsorship inducement 4. Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos 5. Right to audit KeSPA" If so, 3 out of the 5 listed demands are actually insurance against events that would harm Blizzard's reputation. Prior approval of all league operations and the right to audit KeSPA make sure that KeSPA doesn't bring in an undesirable sponsor and also makes sure that they don't try to cook their books. Ownership of all media is actually a pretty standard legal thing. Ever heard that a telecast was property of the NFL, not to be used without their express, written permission? Same deal here. Those things are Blizzard's terms to Kespa, not to OGN. I suppose the terms in the NDA between OGN and Blizz are different. To be honest I find those cited terms very unreasonable (except for terms 2 and 3) and if I am Kespa I won't accept them. 1) Set the contract term to 1 year : so the whole esport scene will fall when Blizz decides to suddenly end it. Brillant. 4) Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos : Many people contributed to create those programs, not just Blizz. There are the players who plays the game, the broadcasting company who set up all the materials to produce those games, and Blizz. Blizz can have partial ownership, not ownership. I'm pretty sure Blizz won't get this one. 5) Loool Blizz is not the parent company of Kespa or the ministry of Finance, how the hell can they have the right to audit Kespa. (and Kespa is non-profit anyways). Also Kespa have many other games that have nothing to do with Blizz, why the heck should it be "audited" by Blizz ? | ||
DemiSe
883 Posts
Thanks again milkis.<3 | ||
Lysis
United States147 Posts
On August 11 2010 01:29 kmdarkmaster wrote: Those things are Blizzard's terms to Kespa, not to OGN. I suppose the terms in the NDA between OGN and Blizz are different. To be honest I find those cited terms very unreasonable (except for terms 2 and 3) and if I am Kespa I won't accept them. 1) Set the contract term to 1 year : so the whole esport scene will fall when Blizz decides to suddenly end it. Brillant. 4) Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos : Many people contributed to create those programs, not just Blizz. There are the players who plays the game, the broadcasting company who set up all the materials to produce those games, and Blizz. Blizz can have partial ownership, not ownership. I'm pretty sure Blizz won't get this one. 5) Loool Blizz is not the parent company of Kespa or the ministry of Finance, how the hell can they have the right to audit Kespa. (and Kespa is non-profit anyways). Also Kespa have many other games that have nothing to do with Blizz, why the heck should it be "audited" by Blizz ? All of that was awhile back, and I posted them in reply to someone saying that the (currently unknown) terms of the proposed contract were like the terms that Blizzard proposed to KeSPA when the whole IP fiasco went down. Also all of this is Gretech now, Blizzard simply gave them the exclusive broadcasting rights as well as the permission to sell those rights to other parties. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On August 11 2010 01:15 LegendaryZ wrote: I bartered and negotiated with stores all the time when I was in Europe. Just because you never do it doesn't mean they wouldn't be open to it. I'm sure it's different from country to country - europe is a pretty big and diverse place. | ||
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Empyrean
16951 Posts
On August 11 2010 01:50 Liquid`Jinro wrote: I'm sure it's different from country to country - europe is a pretty big and diverse place. Yeah, I know for a fact that it happens in France (because I've done it there), but I just don't really see lots of bartering happening in, say, Iceland. And the bartering happened in small markets, not the big hypermarches that have popped up all over the country. | ||
Metalwing
Turkey1038 Posts
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CCGaunt
United States417 Posts
Seriously though, I wish this would go over nicely, why are they feuding so much? ![]() | ||
mucker
United States1120 Posts
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
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QuickStriker
United States3694 Posts
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prototype.
Canada4189 Posts
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Rinrun
Canada3509 Posts
He will "U R Man" his way into deals. | ||
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motbob
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United States12546 Posts
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swanized
Canada2480 Posts
On August 11 2010 03:55 motbob wrote: Yeah, let's all badmouth Blizzard and Gretech based on a statement by MBC, which is surely not biased in any way. that seems like a perfectly fine idea if you ask me MBC are the good guys here I hate blizzard for this ![]() | ||
Jenbu
United States115 Posts
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AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 11 2010 03:59 swanized wrote: that seems like a perfectly fine idea if you ask me MBC are the good guys here I hate blizzard for this ![]() THERE ARE NO GOOD GUYS IN BUSINESS For the last fucking time. Every company wants some dollah and each has it's own way of achieving it: Blizzard making good games, Activision having Bobby Kodick and EA releasing tons of shitty products. | ||
DorF
Sweden961 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:02 konadora wrote: damn you why couldn't you just leave the bw scene alone Well, KeSPA's disposition probably had a lot to do with this. | ||
3 Lions
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United States3705 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:44 Empyrean wrote: Bartering is quite common in non Canadian/American food markets. I got yelled by my parents at when I went to China and didn't barter... ![]() | ||
Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On August 11 2010 04:15 AyJay wrote: THERE ARE NO GOOD GUYS IN BUSINESS For the last fucking time. Every company wants some dollah and each has it's own way of achieving it: Blizzard making good games, Activision having Bobby Kodick and EA releasing tons of shitty products. All companies are after money. Customers don't care about companies wanting money. What they do care, is when companies go after money when they provide nothing for the customers. Blizzard is doing nothing but creating more restrictions to television coverage for E-Sports and heightening the costs to run it. What do we get in return for all their greed? Jack shit. Fuck that. Blizzard, stay the fuck away from E-Sports. | ||
moopie
12605 Posts
On August 11 2010 04:08 Jenbu wrote: As soon as gretech issues a statement, everyone will jump on their bandwagon. Yeah, that will happen... I also like how in all the Gretch/GSl/OSL/MBC threads for this, just about the only people defending these decisions have registered on TL in the last 3-4 months. | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 11 2010 04:55 Letmelose wrote: All companies are after money. Customers don't care about companies wanting money. What they do care, is when companies go after money when they provide nothing for the customers. Blizzard is doing nothing but creating more restrictions to television coverage for E-Sports and heightening the costs to run it. What do we get in return for all their greed? Jack shit. Fuck that. Blizzard, stay the fuck away from E-Sports. Do you really think Blizzard's goal is to make e-sports in Jack shit? | ||
Zona
40426 Posts
On August 11 2010 02:52 mucker wrote: You can do a lot better in negotiations when the seller actually wants you to keep buying. Dummies should have worked a deal long before Blizzard had shipped the game they want to replace BW. Well, Kespa does claim to have tried for quite a few years to ask Blizzard to negotiate only to be rebuffed until SC2's release was near, while Activision Blizzard hasn't alluded to this claim in any way (to deny it, for example). But he says, she says, who knows what's really going on. | ||
Cow
Canada1104 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:40 AyJay wrote: Do you really think Blizzard's goal is to make e-sports in Jack shit? Their goal is to make as much money as fucking possible, and considering what they are doing to achieve that goal, pretty much. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33102 Posts
On August 11 2010 03:55 motbob wrote: Yeah, let's all badmouth Blizzard and Gretech based on a statement by MBC, which is surely not biased in any way. What's biased about the statement? The statement is that they disagree on pricing. The bias is in people's opinions on who's fault that is. | ||
Megalisk
United States6095 Posts
On August 11 2010 05:49 Cow wrote: Their goal is to make as much money as fucking possible, and considering what they are doing to achieve that goal, pretty much. Honsetly I don't know how they are gonna make money off of the GSL..Throwing 600k in prizes and god knows all the other expenses into a market where sc2 hasn't exploded amongst viewers seems kinda stupid.. | ||
rasers
Sweden691 Posts
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GTR
51342 Posts
On August 11 2010 03:52 Rinrun wrote: Gogogo, Hyungjoon becomes a pronegotiator! He will "U R Man" his way into deals. yo my brother please sign with my mbc homies. | ||
nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
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TheAngelofDeath
United States2033 Posts
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tyCe
Australia2542 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:49 Iplaythings wrote: Go ahead, noone will stop you. You know you dont have to openly comment to everyone who writes something you disagree with. Blizzard was the greedy one, even if they made the game they have the right to royalties, but nooo, they wanted broadcasting rights as well. You might say that they deserve that as well, but they left the ladder a long time ago. Blizzard dont make rights for the wc3 / starcraft in China, where royalties would be deserved, but broadcasting right is over the top. To me it's like saying that some guy from England invented soccer, then broadcast rights all goes to England to administer. Even there can be made arguements for it. Compare SC2 with another form of intellectual property, such as a song or a film. One can buy a song or film legally via CD/DVD/iTunes, but that doesn't exclude the liability of a radio station for a song or of a TV station/cinema for a film. They also have to pay because they are also users of intellectual media. Don't get it wrong, although SC2 is more interactive, the only way we can interact with SC2 is via the software, i.e. property, of Blizzard. SC2 is not a sport like association football (so called "soccer"), where the knowledge of the workings of the game is in the public domain. Forget e-sports, SC2 is intellectual property. The only reason Blizzard might give a discount or concession would be out of kindness or stupidity. Blizzard wants to grow SC2 and e-sports and they want a regulatory and economic say in what goes. KeSPA is the greedy kid that took free cookies put out for tasting at the local supermarket. Blizzard is finally asking them to pay up for future cookies, but KeSPA has been eating for free for too long to listen. | ||
palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
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emucxg
Finland4559 Posts
On August 11 2010 07:10 palexhur wrote: @Tyce :Where the negotiations between MBC and Gretech have something to do with SC2?, it is about BW that we are talking here, SC2 value as an e-sport right now is zero (lets see what happens in the future). agreed, sc2 has nothing to do here | ||
Redmark
Canada2129 Posts
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Mystlord
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United States10264 Posts
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Husmusen
Sweden92 Posts
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
On August 11 2010 04:15 AyJay wrote: THERE ARE NO GOOD GUYS IN BUSINESS For the last fucking time. Every company wants some dollah and each has it's own way of achieving it: Blizzard making good games, Activision having Bobby Kodick and EA releasing tons of shitty products. Ah, the irony is so sweet here. You do realize that Blizzard has reached such high popularity not simply due to it's game quality, but also because they've been considered the 'good guys' in business, right? Blizzcon did not come about simply because the games were good - it's been a testament to the community formed around Blizzard and it's customers. Because of this strong bond, it was assured from the day it was announced that SC2 would succeed, regardless of it's actual quality as a game. This is what being the 'good guys' in business does for you. If people stop thinking Blizzard are the good guys, they end up selling less Blizzcon tickets, less games, etc. Of course, those of us who actually like BW enough to still watch it on a regular basis are probably a small enough minority that we won't factor into their decision in the first place. So I'm sure they'd rather have the profits they could potentially make off BW re-licensing, even if it's a slap in the face to everyone involved. On August 11 2010 07:27 Redmark wrote: Whether you agree with him or not, it's pretty obtuse to say something like that. Replace 'SC2' in his post with 'Brood War' and very little changes. Reality is often obtuse. | ||
blueblimp
Canada297 Posts
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
On August 11 2010 09:02 Motiva wrote: lol It looks like im in the minority here, but I can't blame Blizzard or Gretech or any of this. You'd seriously have to your head in the sand to act like kespa orginially did. Furthermore, this idea that because blizzard waited until it was relevant to act, that they shouldn't have acted. This idea is inane. Blizzard should be able to do anything it wants with it's IP until a contract is formally signed. Until then, pay what you owe MBC or stfu. :-D lol. And be glad Blizzard gave you many years of glory for near-free. lol Steal and ask for me.. plz. What do they owe? they spent thousands of man hours getting this game to be esport-viable, making maps, tools, investing large amounts of money, etc. blizzard has done nothing to help them out. | ||
Motiva
United States1774 Posts
On August 11 2010 09:06 writer22816 wrote: What do they owe? they spent thousands of man hours getting this game to be esport-viable, making maps, tools, investing large amounts of money, etc. blizzard has done nothing to help them out. lol. I have no idea what they owe, but MBC says it's too much. Perhaps owe isn't the correct word. However then you change the subject to history and go on about how some company did a bunch of work without first signing a contract with that owner of the original intellectual property. Sounds pretty foolish to me. Maybe it's not, but to then be omg you're so evil when the owner of that property finally wants it back is nothing but misinformed. | ||
XsebT
Denmark2980 Posts
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
/Ignore Wait for a court date or loosen stance. | ||
Loanshark
China3094 Posts
Probably wouldn't even have made SC2. | ||
aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On August 11 2010 09:09 Motiva wrote: lol. I have no idea what they owe, but MBC says it's too much. Perhaps owe isn't the correct word. However then you change the subject to history and go on about how some company did a bunch of work without first signing a contract with that owner of the original intellectual property. Sounds pretty foolish to me. Maybe it's not, but to then be omg you're so evil when the owner of that property finally wants it back is nothing but misinformed. Hanbitsoft, the publisher of SC in Korea, was a major part of getting Starcraft leagues up and running. It was kinda assumed from that point on that it was okay. The world is never as black and white as you paint it out to be | ||
Motiva
United States1774 Posts
On August 11 2010 09:56 Milkis wrote: Hanbitsoft, the publisher of SC in Korea, was a major part of getting Starcraft leagues up and running. It was kinda assumed from that point on that it was okay. The world is never as black and white as you paint it out to be I'm certainly not attempting to paint the world strictly as black/white and also never did i anywhere assume i knew everything. Furthermore, I did only work with what I know (how could anyone expect otherwise) and I used words like "sounds" to attempt to illustrate this. If i came off as too definitive, my apologies. Furthermore are you just arguing that this is also partly Hanbitsofts fault? Well aren't they on the korean side? doesn't this just further state that a lack of communication took place? I'm simply stating that a communication problem when addressing the legality of something should never be the fault of the company trying to protect their product... (it comes to mind that many will say that Kespa is just trying to protect their product, well if that's the case, I say, protect it, find a different game... oh wait your product is their product? Interseting.) The problem here is that korean companies have no leverage because blizzard prolly doesn't give a shit. For them it's prolly best if BW died and everyone played their new cute game. However ME and all of YOU want BW to live on, so we can sit and watch. This said, How is it ever the fault of the creator when the user's fail to communicate and organize properly? Though certainly inaccurate, It's almost like Kespa/korea has been driving around without it's seatbelt for years, and when the police finally give them a ticket, they're like... but... so many years..... EDIT: Just as an afterthought, and to maybe address your post a bit more... Isn't that the whole problem?! Since when are Assumption binding? | ||
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On August 11 2010 10:18 Motiva wrote: I'm certainly not attempting to paint the world strictly as black/white and also never did i anywhere assume i knew everything. Furthermore, I did only work with what I know (how could anyone expect otherwise) and I used words like "sounds" to attempt to illustrate this. If i came off as too definitive, my apologies. Furthermore are you just arguing that this is also partly Hanbitsofts fault? Well aren't they on the korean side? doesn't this just further state that a lack of communication took place? I'm simply stating that a communication problem when addressing the legality of something should never be the fault of the company trying to protect their product... The problem here is that korean companies have no leverage because blizzard prolly doesn't give a shit. For them it's prolly best if BW died and everyone played their new cute game. However ME and all of YOU want BW to live on, so we can sit and watch. This said, How is it ever the fault of the creator when the user's fail to communicate and organize properly? Though certainly inaccurate, It's almost like Kespa/korea has been driving around with it's seatbelt for years, and when the police finally give them a ticket, they're like... but... so many years..... I didn't say it was anyone's fault. My point was that Hanbitsoft had the "rights" to Starcraft by getting rights to publish it in Korea. Secondly, Blizzard completely knew about the leagues for the longest time and did not intervene until 2007. You're not repeating anything new. If you truly think Korean companies have no leverage then you're truly at the wrong site. Secondly, it honestly sounds like you're just spewing words without fully understanding the entire situation -- I recommend digging through the old KeSPA - Blizzard threads to find out more about the argument before you continue because to put it bluntly you have no idea what the hell is going on. | ||
Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
Hopefully this will be resolved without any serious losses, as this could end horribly if each feels unwilling to negotiate. | ||
Motiva
United States1774 Posts
On August 11 2010 10:22 Milkis wrote: I didn't say it was anyone's fault. My point was that Hanbitsoft had the "rights" to Starcraft by getting rights to publish it in Korea. Secondly, Blizzard completely knew about the leagues for the longest time and did not intervene until 2007. You're not repeating anything new. If you truly think Korean companies have no leverage then you're truly at the wrong site. Secondly, it honestly sounds like you're just spewing words without fully understanding the entire situation -- I recommend digging through the old KeSPA - Blizzard threads to find out more about the argument before you continue because to put it bluntly you have no idea what the hell is going on. LOL I never said i was repeating anything new, (EDIT: How do you repeat something that is new anyway?) and i'm well informed of the situation, but quite franky I identifiy with assumptions not being binding and USA IP laws being laws far more than I sympathize with competitive video games as a medium for entertainment... (quick start typing up your response to this simplification before you give me a chance) LOL Why are you posting to disput personal commentary in a thread. I was simply trying to make a point that the pennies blizzard can gain from this aren't very great. I don't truly believe the korean companies have zero leverage. I do however see the majority of the posts in this thread say they have more than they do. Blizzard hardly cares, they're worried about their new game, and that's the point I was intending to make. I suppose your taking this too seriously for me, because to me this is just standard US proceedure. Company oversteps it's bound, feels entitlted, gets slapped, life goes on. You're gonna accuse me of over-genralizing by painting everything in absolutes, and then in the next post question my understanding... how about lay off the personal attacks.... If saying something new was required, this whole thread should have been closed with just the OP. Furthermore, The history is largely irrelevant. (to my posts) Blizzard is being generous because the korean companies DO have leverage. I'm sorry if you feel i need to document the differences in personal opinion and actual reality in all of my posts, but I would ask you to do the same. But then we're stuck in the situation of never actually discussing anything because any discordance on reality would quickly result in the revelation that no one knows anything. Not trying to get all philosophical, but seriously "your not repeating anything new" could be said to almost every single post in this thread... Like your own, Why are you replying? Can either of us vouch for these companies? Do you think blizzard doesn't have a team of lawyers +more calculating their every move INCLUDING all of this?! Seriously. Blizzard didn't act until it was relevant because it wasn't relevant. If blizzard pursued every breach of ToS everytime it happened, they'd prolly lose an even greater % of their profit margin... With your ending remarks of that last post, and having read just about everything on TL i can on the subject. I suppose since this is just so fucking simple why didn't we just call em up and solve it for them? Or how about this, everything we say is bindning and all discussion has to go through our lawyers. Or how about I go in to a thread, read a 1000% msgs about how some company made a product and that product was used illegally for years, and they seemed aliright wirth it, and then one day they weren't. and so that company is evil, and I disagree with that analysis of the situation. Should I insult your understanding for that? EDIT: I suppose I'll mention that I think blizzard is largely irrelevant to this, and furthermore, Kespa or whoever thought they had the rights was being absolutely irresponsible to think that VIVIDENDI would just wave their hand and say NPNPNP... I'd expect nothing less from vividendi than what's happening now. I'm sure their shareholders feel the same. (ya ya acti-blizz is it's own stock, ya ya) From blizzard's point of view consitency going forward is certainly important, thus, if your gonna be a dick about sc2 rights, you gotta whip it out for sc1 too. | ||
NIJ
1012 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:40 AyJay wrote: I don't know what kind of stores you have in South Korea, but stores where I live never negotiate. So I should call them dickheads? WHAT!? in korea? You must not be korean. Or very young. You people have too much shame and lack of experience as opposed to the 아저씨/아줌마s in the art of negotiating prices. | ||
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On August 11 2010 10:40 Motiva wrote: LOL I never said i was repeating anything new, (EDIT: How do you repeat something that is new anyway?) and i'm well informed of the situation, but quite franky I identifiy with assumptions not being binding and USA IP laws being laws far more than I sympathize with competitive video games as a medium for entertainment... (quick start typing up your response to this simplification before you give me a chance) LOL Why are you posting to disput personal commentary in a thread. I was simply trying to make a point that the pennies blizzard can gain from this aren't very great. I don't truly believe the korean companies have zero leverage. I do however see the majority of the posts in this thread say they have more than they do. Blizzard hardly cares, they're worried about their new game, and that's the point I was intending to make. I suppose your taking this too seriously for me, because to me this is just standard US proceedure. Company oversteps it's bound, feels entitlted, gets slapped, life goes on. You're gonna accuse me of over-genralizing by painting everything in absolutes, and then in the next post question my understanding... how about lay off the personal attacks.... If saying something new was required, this whole thread should have been closed with just the OP. Furthermore, The history is largely irrelevant. (to my posts) Blizzard is being generous because the korean companies DO have leverage. I'm sorry if you feel i need to document the differences in personal opinion and actual reality in all of my posts, but I would ask you to do the same. But then we're stuck in the situation of never actually discussing anything because any discordance on reality would quickly result in the revelation that no one knows anything. Not trying to get all philosophical, but seriously "your not repeating anything new" could be said to almost every single post in this thread... Like your own, Why are you replying? Can either of us vouch for these companies? Do you think blizzard doesn't have a team of lawyers +more calculating their every move INCLUDING all of this?! Seriously. Blizzard didn't act until it was relevant because it wasn't relevant. If blizzard pursued every breach of ToS everytime it happened, they'd prolly lose an even greater % of their profit margin... With your ending remarks of that last post, and having read just about everything on TL i can on the subject. I suppose since this is just so fucking simple why didn't we just call em up and solve it for them? Or how about this, everything we say is bindning and all discussion has to go through our lawyers. Or how about I go in to a thread, read a 1000% msgs about how some company made a product and that product was used illegally for years, and they seemed aliright wirth it, and then one day they weren't. and so that company is evil, and I disagree with that analysis of the situation. Should I insult your understanding for that? EDIT: I suppose I'll mention that I think blizzard is largely irrelevant to this, and furthermore, Kespa or whoever thought they had the rights was being absolutely irresponsible to think that VIVIDENDI would just wave their hand and say NPNPNP... I'd expect nothing less from vividendi than what's happening now. I'm sure their shareholders feel the same. (ya ya acti-blizz is it's own stock, ya ya) Blizzard was 100% fine with what was going on in the scene until 2007. That's 7 years of Blizzard being okay with what was going on in the Korea. What's your point? To Blizzard, it's honestly not about profit, it's more about their intellectual property which they felt was abused by what happened in 2007. "History is not relevant"?, it's 100% about history and which is 100% reason why KeSPA and Blizzard are on such bad terms at this point. I haven't made a personal attack. If you think me calling you uninformed is an attack then I honestly have nothing more to say since it honestly looks like I won't be able to knock you off of your high horse because you seem to at least pretend to know what's going on. I have never implied that the situation was simple in any sort of way. I have implied that it's a lot more complicated than what you are saying, that is simply it. Either case, you seem to have overreacted quite a bit, and honestly I have zero intention of going further in this discussion until you're actually willing to listen and not just spew more stuff. But seriously, I don't think anyone will be taking you remotely seriously after your last few posts. | ||
Motiva
United States1774 Posts
On August 11 2010 10:59 Milkis wrote: Blizzard was 100% fine with what was going on in the scene until 2007. That's 7 years of Blizzard being okay with what was going on in the Korea. What's your point? To Blizzard, it's honestly not about profit, it's more about their intellectual property which they felt was abused by what happened in 2007. "History is not relevant"?, it's 100% about history and which is 100% reason why KeSPA and Blizzard are on such bad terms at this point. I haven't made a personal attack. If you think me calling you uninformed is an attack then I honestly have nothing more to say since it honestly looks like I won't be able to knock you off of your high horse because you seem to at least pretend to know what's going on. I have never implied that the situation was simple in any sort of way. I have implied that it's a lot more complicated than what you are saying, that is simply it. Either case, you seem to have overreacted quite a bit, and honestly I have zero intention of going further in this discussion until you're actually willing to listen and not just spew more stuff. But seriously, I don't think anyone will be taking you remotely seriously after your last few posts. I came to this thread, read the lastest, browsed through the posts in this thread. some of these posts were very anti-blizzard. I personally believe that Blizzard is in the right. This might be the only place we disagree. I then vented my frustration stating that IP Laws > Assumptions in many more, less elegant terms. As well as some personal commentary, because, I am not a robot. You then reply, stating my ignornace, while at the same time having a large ignornace about my knowledge-base. How is this a founded contribution to this thread? Let alone not a personal attack? I guess my horse is too tall for you? (even though it's really just a pony) however, The wind must have caught your words, because you did mention something I overlooked, and I acknowledged it in my later post. Anyway, I don't really wanna go stepby step and hold your hand. However, if you actually have an argument that disagrees with something I said, rather than making a tiny point, and then agreeing with me while calling me ignorant. Kespa has no innate right to exist. Blizzard has no innate right to exist. Laws decreed from the people give corporations the right to exist. Further laws give said corporations the right to claim their creations theirs. Further laws give said corporations the rights to claim terms of use over their products in many regards. Do you disagree with any of this? If you do, well then, ofc your on the side of kespa, of course you want to watch more SC:BW. I however, want the law to be upheld, and assumption to be non-binding. Contracts > Assumptions. Kespa/hanbit/insert relative korean company all dropped the ball... OMG 7 years blizzard knew? really? Are their rights suspended? This is total nonsense and has nothing to do with the situation in my opinion. I don't care if it was 700 years, if blizzard comes back from the moon and says mine. YOU GIVE THEM THEIRS. Sorry if you can't take me seriously, but i'd think you were not reading and trolling, but due to the icon, i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and just assuming (yes non-binding) that your misunderstanding me, because we agree on the terms of reality, just not the morals (Assumption: You think kespa breaking the law is legal). EDIT: Or yea, just post to make a bunch of assumptions and then instead of actually pressing everything out and generating something worthy of discussion, you can just assume i'm not listening and do the same. If your too frail to proceed with a standard101 internet discussion, you prolly shouldn't have made your first post. Furthermore, if you think i'm overreacting, well i'm sorry, but i actually read words for what they means, and while I thank you for mentioning something i prolly should have mentioned, you prolly shouldn't pair it with assumptions on my worldview (or even what you think i meant) if your not even open to conversation. | ||
wiesel
Germany727 Posts
In my opinion Blizzard has no right to be part of the korean e-sport in anyways. They made starcraft ok, but never cared for it and now they come when their sc2 sales are in danger?What's with all the korean who actually did work hard for e-sport to let the leagues grow etc?.Laugh. Blizzard: hey thanks for promoting and balancing our game to e-sport nr1 in your country but now we take over, ceeya! Can't you just let broodwar alone, im not anti-sc2, im totally ok with demanding fees for sc2 but don't for broodwar after all these years now.. If bw dies because more people watch sc2 then ok, nothing you can do, but not this way blizzard. | ||
Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On August 11 2010 11:23 Motiva wrote: I came to this thread, read the lastest, browsed through the posts in this thread. some of these posts were very anti-blizzard. I personally believe that Blizzard is in the right. This might be the only place we disagree. I then vented my frustration stating that IP Laws > Assumptions in many more, less elegant terms. As well as some personal commentary, because, I am not a robot. You then reply, stating my ignornace, while at the same time having a large ignornace about my knowledge-base. How is this a founded contribution to this thread? Let alone not a personal attack? I guess my horse is too tall for you? (even though it's really just a pony) however, The wind must have caught your words, because you did mention something I overlooked, and I acknowledged it in my later post. Anyway, I don't really wanna go stepby step and hold your hand. However, if you actually have an argument that disagrees with something I said, rather than making a tiny point, and then agreeing with me while calling me ignorant. Kespa has no innate right to exist. Blizzard has no innate right to exist. Laws decreed from the people give corporations the right to exist. Further laws give said corporations the right to claim their creations theirs. Further laws give said corporations the rights to claim terms of use over their products in many regards. Do you disagree with any of this? If you do, well then, ofc your on the side of kespa, of course you want to watch more SC:BW. I however, want the law to be upheld, and assumption to be non-binding. Contracts > Assumptions. Kespa/hanbit/insert relative korean company all dropped the ball... OMG 7 years blizzard knew? really? Are their rights suspended? This is total nonsense and has nothing to do with the situation in my opinion. I don't care if it was 700 years, if blizzard comes back from the moon and says mine. YOU GIVE THEM THEIRS. Sorry if you can't take me seriously, but i'd think you were not reading and trolling, but due to the icon, i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and just assuming (yes non-binding) that your misunderstanding me, because we agree on the terms of reality, just not the morals (Assumption: You think kespa breaking the law is legal). EDIT: Or yea, just post to make a bunch of assumptions and then instead of actually pressing everything out and generating something worthy of discussion, you can just assume i'm not listening and do the same. If your too frail to proceed with a standard101 internet discussion, you prolly shouldn't have made your first post. Furthermore, if you think i'm overreacting, well i'm sorry, but i actually read words for what they means, and while I thank you for mentioning something i prolly should have mentioned, you prolly shouldn't pair it with assumptions on my worldview (or even what you think i meant) if your not even open to conversation. Are you really trying to prove your point with personal attacks on the translator? I hardly see any arguments within your post. It's quite clear you have no idea what you are talking about. If Blizzard came back 700 years later, they would have no more claim to their product by law. I hardly think you're qualified to argue on this topic if you didn't even know that. The IP dispute hasn't gone through court yet, so you can't really say it's against the law. Just that KeSPA stands to lose more in court than Blizzard so they would prefer to avoid that option. | ||
Motiva
United States1774 Posts
On August 11 2010 11:54 Lightwip wrote: Are you really trying to prove your point with personal attacks on the translator? I hardly see any arguments within your post. It's quite clear you have no idea what you are talking about. If Blizzard came back 700 years later, they would have no more claim to their product by law. I hardly think you're qualified to argue on this topic if you didn't even know that. The IP dispute hasn't gone through court yet, so you can't really say it's against the law. Just that KeSPA stands to lose more in court than Blizzard so they would prefer to avoid that option. rofl, I'm not trying to prove anything... I hardly have any arguments. I was more looking for some explanation from him. It's quite clear that noone here has any idea. and of course, it's called hyperbole. And yes, furthermore, i'd say it's all off topic. I suppose I was more offended by his means than his ends, making broad statements about how black/white I view it when I simply state a minor opinion on what i THINK. I suppose I was a bit long winded, but his statements implied he had something to say but he wasn't saying it, and I'm not one to leave things unsaid. EDIT: Like things like "I hardly think you're qualified to argue on this topic if you didn't even know that" really seem to illicit a response out of me, because why would you say that? firstly, who deems the rights of discussion across this medium, ect ect ect, How do we determine if i'm arguing or discussing, ect ect It's just a really unfounded statement and people shouldn't talk like that, myself included. This is a forum for people that have little to nothing to do with that actual situation. EDIT2: And After further retrospect I suppose I overreacted because his statements applied to almost every single post in this thread, but felt he singled me out because I was a bit exaggerated and definitely against the stream in this thread. | ||
Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:44 Empyrean wrote: Bartering is quite common in non Canadian/American food markets. I've never heard of this so... not in Sweden at least | ||
aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
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blahman3344
United States2015 Posts
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Scaramanga
Australia8090 Posts
On August 11 2010 00:28 AyJay wrote: Well, Blizzard will control everything they own anyway Ahaha we have a blizzard fanboy, thats terrible Motiva can you please stop posting page long posts that are 10% argument and 90% attacks on starred users | ||
Motiva
United States1774 Posts
On August 11 2010 13:08 Scaramanga wrote: Ahaha we have a blizzard fanboy, thats terrible Motiva can you please stop posting page long posts that are 10% argument and 90% attacks on starred users LOL Geez, All i did was post my own bias opinion -like everyone else-. It's somehow my fault because I'm interested in getting fairly particular about the points in his response? Sorry, I suppose we can just leave this thread to another one of those threads where everyone posts and few read anything posted. But then I guess I need to stop because it's such a horrible habit of mine?... LOL So selective. EDIT: reworded slighly, EDIT2: my response isn't just @you but also aimaimaim... I'm a bit longworded, my apologies, but, I was being quite genuine under all the attitude, and I'm sorry I strayed from the bandwagan posts of "Thanks for this" and "Down With Blizzard" Though for the first, I am certainly thankful for the services he provides. I hope noone thinks otherwise ![]() EDIT3: Does that mean your 100% attack post is cool cause neither were starred? Lol sorry can't help myself, not serious :D | ||
wozjflwnl
Canada344 Posts
On August 11 2010 03:52 Rinrun wrote: Gogogo, Hyungjoon becomes a pronegotiator! He will "U R Man" his way into deals. then finish it with a Love ya dance. | ||
MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
But yea, activison blizzard is ridiculous in their claims. | ||
Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
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robertdinh
803 Posts
On August 11 2010 15:38 MuffinDude wrote: Yo guys, its not blizzard thats trying to take control of the pro BW scene, its Activision blizzard. Fuck bobby kotick. But yea, activison blizzard is ridiculous in their claims. People scapegoat activision way too much when it comes to blizzard actions. Mind you activision is just as greedy and ridiculous as blizzard, but they did not corrupt blizzard. Blizzard was just as moneygrubbing as activision before they merged, it all began with the development of world of warcraft. The philosophy behind blizzard shifted and there was a mass exodus of original blizz developers (a lot of which tried to start up their own game studios to varying degrees of success) because they felt the company's mentality had changed too much and it had become simply about profit profit profit. Blizzard can still make high "quality" games because of the sheer funding and size of their development teams, but they don't truly care about things like competitive gaming, they only paint the illusion of caring at times because they have deemed it profitable to appear that way and people gobble it up so easily. Look at how easily people have gobbled up the SC2 hype and things like the GSL. Starcraft2 might as well be named New Kids on the Block and have a slogan of "all the cool kids are doing it". | ||
Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
On August 11 2010 16:50 robertdinh wrote: People scapegoat activision way too much when it comes to blizzard actions. Mind you activision is just as greedy and ridiculous as blizzard, but they did not corrupt blizzard. Blizzard was just as moneygrubbing as activision before they merged, it all began with the development of world of warcraft. The philosophy behind blizzard shifted and there was a mass exodus of original blizz developers (a lot of which tried to start up their own game studios to varying degrees of success) because they felt the company's mentality had changed too much and it had become simply about profit profit profit. Blizzard can still make high "quality" games because of the sheer funding and size of their development teams, but they don't truly care about things like competitive gaming, they only paint the illusion of caring at times because they have deemed it profitable to appear that way and people gobble it up so easily. Look at how easily people have gobbled up the SC2 hype and things like the GSL. Starcraft2 might as well be named New Kids on the Block and have a slogan of "all the cool kids are doing it". The best way to make your point on a SC/SC2 site is to call people who like SC2 morons who are deluded by hype. | ||
moopie
12605 Posts
On August 11 2010 17:13 Catch]22 wrote: The best way to make your point on a SC/SC2 site is to call people who like SC2 morons who are deluded by hype. For the most part he brings up a good point, and nowhere in his post did he call TLers 'morons'. SC2 was hyped to hell and back btw (in case you missed it), and while its a good game (excluding the bnet 2.0 fiasco) its still trading on its predecessor's name. Time will tell if it will actually develop enough and be able to stand on its own as an esport. | ||
rockon1215
United States612 Posts
On August 11 2010 16:50 robertdinh wrote: Maybe you're scapegoating WoW and Blizzard too much?People scapegoat activision way too much when it comes to blizzard actions. Mind you activision is just as greedy and ridiculous as blizzard, but they did not corrupt blizzard. Blizzard was just as moneygrubbing as activision before they merged, it all began with the development of world of warcraft. The philosophy behind blizzard shifted and there was a mass exodus of original blizz developers (a lot of which tried to start up their own game studios to varying degrees of success) because they felt the company's mentality had changed too much and it had become simply about profit profit profit. Blizzard can still make high "quality" games because of the sheer funding and size of their development teams, but they don't truly care about things like competitive gaming, they only paint the illusion of caring at times because they have deemed it profitable to appear that way and people gobble it up so easily. Look at how easily people have gobbled up the SC2 hype and things like the GSL. Starcraft2 might as well be named New Kids on the Block and have a slogan of "all the cool kids are doing it". | ||
robertdinh
803 Posts
On August 11 2010 17:13 Catch]22 wrote: The best way to make your point on a SC/SC2 site is to call people who like SC2 morons who are deluded by hype. Well I didn't call anyone a moron, but is it taboo to insinuate that often times people just gobble up what is put in front of them without really analyzing it? On a side note isn't donnie wahlberg dreamy? | ||
Avrithor
United States41 Posts
On August 11 2010 17:25 moopie wrote: For the most part he brings up a good point, and nowhere in his post did he call TLers 'morons'. SC2 was hyped to hell and back btw (in case you missed it), and while its a good game (excluding the bnet 2.0 fiasco) its still trading on its predecessor's name. Time will tell if it will actually develop enough and be able to stand on its own as an esport. No, he didn't use the word 'morons' explicitly. But the post does imply that anyone who likes SC2/is excited about its potential future is delusional and just mindlessly eating up hype, so that they can't see the obvious, inarguable truth of his position, which is baseless and insulting to anyone who's not an SC2 hater. He doesn't make a good point at all. Questionable decision-making on a hyped game doesn't necessarily mean that they don't care and the hype is a propaganda campaign to brainwash people into thinking they do care. That's ridiculous. You have to remember that Blizzard is not a monolithic entity. The devs, or some of the devs, might have argued for things that TL would have liked better, only to be shot down; or in some cases the execs might have asked about something, and been talked out of it. Or whatever. But *regardless of what happens*, the PR department's job is to hype the hell out of it and sell it. They aren't involved in any of those other decisions, and it's not like Browder would have gone to the marketing guys and said, "Hey, we've decided we don't care about competitive gaming anymore, we're just going to throw darts to make decisions about mechanics and B.net2 and spend the extra manhours jacking off, can you whip up some things to convince the sheeple that we do still care?" What do you think is more likely, that, or that they honestly do care and want to make the best competitive game they can, and just had poor decision-making for any number of reasons that have nothing to do with caring or intent? | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 11 2010 13:08 Scaramanga wrote: Ahaha we have a blizzard fanboy, thats terrible Motiva can you please stop posting page long posts that are 10% argument and 90% attacks on starred users Fanboy or not, it's happening. Blizzard will control everything. | ||
MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
On August 11 2010 18:18 AyJay wrote: Fanboy or not, it's happening. Blizzard will control everything. They will control nothing as when they try to control the progaming scene, it'll die and they have nothing to control, as a result, they will control nothing. On August 11 2010 16:50 robertdinh wrote: People scapegoat activision way too much when it comes to blizzard actions. Mind you activision is just as greedy and ridiculous as blizzard, but they did not corrupt blizzard. Blizzard was just as moneygrubbing as activision before they merged, it all began with the development of world of warcraft. The philosophy behind blizzard shifted and there was a mass exodus of original blizz developers (a lot of which tried to start up their own game studios to varying degrees of success) because they felt the company's mentality had changed too much and it had become simply about profit profit profit. Blizzard can still make high "quality" games because of the sheer funding and size of their development teams, but they don't truly care about things like competitive gaming, they only paint the illusion of caring at times because they have deemed it profitable to appear that way and people gobble it up so easily. Look at how easily people have gobbled up the SC2 hype and things like the GSL. Starcraft2 might as well be named New Kids on the Block and have a slogan of "all the cool kids are doing it". Read this thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128252 and it'll tell you what blizzard became after activision merged with them. Wow was a quality game when it came out and they didn't expect it to receive world wide success like it has now, but as you will read in the article, you'll see that after the merge, blizzard has started to exploit wow more to make money. | ||
robertdinh
803 Posts
On August 11 2010 18:10 Avrithor wrote: No, he didn't use the word 'morons' explicitly. But the post does imply that anyone who likes SC2/is excited about its potential future is delusional and just mindlessly eating up hype, so that they can't see the obvious, inarguable truth of his position, which is baseless and insulting to anyone who's not an SC2 hater. He doesn't make a good point at all. Questionable decision-making on a hyped game doesn't necessarily mean that they don't care and the hype is a propaganda campaign to brainwash people into thinking they do care. That's ridiculous. You have to remember that Blizzard is not a monolithic entity. The devs, or some of the devs, might have argued for things that TL would have liked better, only to be shot down; or in some cases the execs might have asked about something, and been talked out of it. Or whatever. But *regardless of what happens*, the PR department's job is to hype the hell out of it and sell it. They aren't involved in any of those other decisions, and it's not like Browder would have gone to the marketing guys and said, "Hey, we've decided we don't care about competitive gaming anymore, we're just going to throw darts to make decisions about mechanics and B.net2 and spend the extra manhours jacking off, can you whip up some things to convince the sheeple that we do still care?" What do you think is more likely, that, or that they honestly do care and want to make the best competitive game they can, and just had poor decision-making for any number of reasons that have nothing to do with caring or intent? 1. Has sc2 proven that it has the depth to make it a good esport? 2. Has it been hyped up with big money tournaments whether it has or has not? 3. Has blizzard made decisions to make it more difficult for the BW leagues to operate? 4. Is blizzard maneuvering towards having a strong grip on esports in korea? 5. Bnet2.0 sure proves just how much blizzard cares about the quality of the play experience. :rolls eyes: Companies are accountable for their actions, just cause joe nonfactor who has no power in the company objects to some decision doesn't mean anything, the company is judged by the actions it actually takes, not the what-ifs. Anyway my points aren't some sorta wild conspiracy theory, if you have followed blizzard as a company from warcraft1, up til wow development and up through now, you can see just how much they've shifted in mentality. What they are doing to BW and how they executed WOW as an esport should make it pretty clear to you how much they actually care about esports. I'll give you some good examples of what you can expect from wow esport tourney to show you how blizzard operates in regards to esports. 1. Whatever league is hosting it pays blizzard a licensing fee to have access to a specific set of tourney realm servers. 2. These servers can often ping poorly for the tourney depending where the lan is held relative to where the servers are housed. 3. There are major bugs in the tourney realm that have still not been addressed after years. (Sometimes the server for example will bug and force players to play on the same arena map over and over, which can skew tourney results drastically because some compositions have a strong advantage on certain maps over other compositions) 4. If the league running the tourney runs into bugs or other problems with the tourney realm you can expect it to take many many hours for them to find someone at blizzard that actually gives a crap about their problem, and when you are holding lan events that generally last over a 1 weekend period, having to wait many many hours to get some problem fixed (it may not even get fixed) isn't really good, especially when teams have flights to catch by certain times. Now I am sure people will go "OMG that is WoW this is SC2" but WoW is blizzard's cash cow, it makes them 100-150million a MONTH. If they can't even put a respectable amount of effort into having wow tourneys run properly, and wow is their flagship game, what makes you think you are going to get some sorta high quality support from blizzard in sc2? As for the poster who linked the activision-blizz thread... blizzard's goal with wow was never innovation or a quality game, it was cashing in on a proven formula and expanding it. They polished the rough edges of 1st generation mmorpgs and made wow, and promoted the crap outta it to pull in fans that weren't accustomed to mmorpgs beforehand, for example the battle.net community. They've been figuring out ways to make more and more money off of people in wow since it launched, and a lot of the ways they do this make the "quality" of the game quite awful. For example: They can make money off of players paying for a transfer to a server they wish to transfer to, this is all well and good, but what ends up happening is some servers have people transfer off and they slowly die, because no one wants to play on a dead server, the players left either have to pay and transfer off themselves (this makes blizzard more money) or they can simply quit the game (this obviously doesn't make blizzard money, but the money they make from offering the microtransaction is more profitable than not offering it, whether it destroys servers and their communities or not) Things like server transfers opened the door to other destructive microtransactions such as the faction change, where people can switch their character from horde to alliance or alliance to horde, this can also completely mess up server populations and create awful imbalances or kill servers completely on 1 faction. That does not matter to blizzard though, because it makes them good money. | ||
moopie
12605 Posts
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AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 11 2010 18:20 MuffinDude wrote: They will control nothing as when they try to control the progaming scene, it'll die and they have nothing to control, as a result, they will control nothing. As long as people are interested in Sc/sc2 there will be progaming scene. | ||
moopie
12605 Posts
On August 11 2010 19:49 AyJay wrote: As long as people are interested in Sc/sc2 there will be progaming scene. Frank Pearce has spoken. Seriously though, if blizzard can't squeeze money out of OGN/MBC they wouldn't think twice about killing off BW, simply because it serves as direct competition to their new shiny toy. They're doing their best to milk korea as much as they can, regardless of who gets hurt in the process. | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 11 2010 19:58 moopie wrote: Frank Pearce has spoken. Seriously though, if blizzard can't squeeze money out of OGN/MBC they wouldn't think twice about killing off BW, simply because it serves as direct competition to their new shiny toy. They're doing their best to milk korea as much as they can, regardless of who gets hurt in the process. Killing BW won't make SC2 popular, therefore no point of doing it | ||
Cedstick
Canada3336 Posts
Correct me if I'm wrong in any of these allegations, but this is what I've come to gather regarding the battle over rights. | ||
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On August 11 2010 19:49 AyJay wrote: As long as people are interested in Sc/sc2 there will be progaming scene. Because there's a progaming scene in every other game people are interested in, right? It doesn't quite work that way ![]() | ||
MICHELLE
Korea (South)199 Posts
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AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 12 2010 00:20 MICHELLE wrote: I seriously just wish that SC2 buzz will evaporate and that there will be no pro gaming scene for it. I just feel that it docent deserve it, at least for now. Who thought Starcraft 1 would be as big as it is now when it came out? | ||
TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
On August 11 2010 23:39 Milkis wrote: Because there's a progaming scene in every other game people are interested in, right? It doesn't quite work that way ![]() yeah what the fuck, none of the arguments you post ever make sense AyJay. You just furiously keep on acting as if blizzard was god, and sc2 was the physical manifestation of the best blowjob given chill the hell out, just because its a good RTS doesnt mean it will or deserves to replace a game that has a ton more depth and a firm foundation RIGHT NOW. It might be ready at some point to do so, but sc2 as it is now is not a match for BW in terms of entertainment and depth. And dont fall back to the default 'OMG ONLY BEEN FEW DAYS SINCE RELEASE' crap. I'm talking about the present, already acknowledged that sc2 may be ready to replace BW in the future. Right now it isnt. | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 12 2010 01:21 TheAntZ wrote: yeah what the fuck, none of the arguments you post ever make sense AyJay. You just furiously keep on acting as if blizzard was god, and sc2 was the physical manifestation of the best blowjob given chill the hell out, just because its a good RTS doesnt mean it will or deserves to replace a game that has a ton more depth and a firm foundation RIGHT NOW. It might be ready at some point to do so, but sc2 as it is now is not a match for BW in terms of entertainment and depth. And dont fall back to the default 'OMG ONLY BEEN FEW DAYS SINCE RELEASE' crap. I'm talking about the present, already acknowledged that sc2 may be ready to replace BW in the future. Right now it isnt. I don't know why people is saying Brood war is better than Starcraft 2. To my eyes it's still same old starcraft with new and diffrent strategies. I think Starcraft2 has a lot of depth and is extremely entertaining (I will even point out that people like husky and hd have 165,000 subscribers - people who are waiting for them to pump out more starcraft2 videos and that is HUGE.) I never said sc2 should replace BW. I think they can happily live together as long as there are people interested in watching both games. I'm posting my opinion and my views no need to get mad over it. | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9479 Posts
On August 12 2010 02:34 AyJay wrote: I don't know why people is saying Brood war is better than Starcraft 2. To my eyes it's still same old starcraft with new and diffrent strategies. I think Starcraft2 has a lot of depth and is extremely entertaining (I will even point out that people like husky and hd have 165,000 subscribers - people who are waiting for them to pump out more starcraft2 videos and that is HUGE.) I never said sc2 should replace BW. I think they can happily live together as long as there are people interested in watching both games. I'm posting my opinion and my views no need to get mad over it. People are saying that BW is better than SC2 because BW IS better than SC2. Maybe there isn't a scientific explanation on why this is, but this doesn't make it any less of a fact. | ||
Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
It's like you took your neighbour's unique ball while he wasn't looking and used it to play a great spectacular game for 7 years, gathering a lot of fans and making money from broadcasts. Nobody cared that it wasn't your ball. Then the neighbour comes and says "Hey, that's my ball! If you don't want me to take it away from you you have to pay me something!". And the fans are all over him booing and telling him what a fucked up greedy idiot he is, but they don't want to give up his ball because it's better that any ball ever made and no other ball will make the game so spectacular. Well, bad luck. You should have asked him if it was OK to play with his ball (and make money off it) long ago. | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9479 Posts
On August 12 2010 03:27 Random() wrote: I see no problem with Blizzard's position. "But they didn't care for 7 years" is such a bad argument. It's like you took your neighbour's unique ball while he wasn't looking and used it to play a great spectacular game for 7 years, gathering a lot of fans and making money from broadcasts. Nobody cared that it wasn't your ball. Then the neighbour comes and says "Hey, that's my ball! If you don't want me to take it away from you you have to pay me something!". And the fans are all over him booing and telling him what a fucked up greedy idiot he is, but they don't want to give up his ball because it's better that any ball ever made and no other ball will make the game so spectacular. Well, bad luck. You should have asked him if it was OK to play with his ball (and make money off it) long ago. lol nice analogy. I'd definitely be among those fans booing the neighbor! | ||
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On August 12 2010 03:27 Random() wrote: I see no problem with Blizzard's position. "But they didn't care for 7 years" is such a bad argument. It's like you took your neighbour's unique ball while he wasn't looking and used it to play a great spectacular game for 7 years, gathering a lot of fans and making money from broadcasts. Nobody cared that it wasn't your ball. Then the neighbour comes and says "Hey, that's my ball! If you don't want me to take it away from you you have to pay me something!". And the fans are all over him booing and telling him what a fucked up greedy idiot he is, but they don't want to give up his ball because it's better that any ball ever made and no other ball will make the game so spectacular. Well, bad luck. You should have asked him if it was OK to play with his ball (and make money off it) long ago. What if your neighbor was one of the people watching the game? And they even got your players to come to their conventions and represent the game? It's not like the neighbor just ignored it, but he partook in the activities passively. The entire IP issue comes from KeSPA selling broadcasting rights to OGN/MBC. Without that happening, Blizzard would have never, ever, cared. Yes, KeSPA isn't innocent, but it's not exactly fair for Blizzard to be so possessive to the point that it's hurting the broadcasters and the fans. Blizzard's enemy is KeSPA and they should be playing nice to the broadcasters to win them over, not just make their lives worse through this "business strategy". Blizzard's end goal should be concentrated on the KeSPA executive office, not on anyone else. One way of doing this was to let MSL/OSL happen without an issue, but create issues with the Proleague until KeSPA gives in. Remember that the MBC/OGN negotiations are going on separately from KeSPA's. | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 12 2010 03:24 2Pacalypse- wrote: People are saying that BW is better than SC2 because BW IS better than SC2. Maybe there isn't a scientific explanation on why this is, but this doesn't make it any less of a fact. Lol dude that is just your personal opinion. I find sc2 more entertaining than BW, yet you find SC2 more entertaining than Sc2 and yet theres this guy who finds Modern Warfare 2 kicks everyone's ass. So which game is better? Their all great and their is no need for discussions. | ||
rasers
Sweden691 Posts
On August 12 2010 03:27 Random() wrote: I see no problem with Blizzard's position. "But they didn't care for 7 years" is such a bad argument. It's like you took your neighbour's unique ball while he wasn't looking and used it to play a great spectacular game for 7 years, gathering a lot of fans and making money from broadcasts. Nobody cared that it wasn't your ball. Then the neighbour comes and says "Hey, that's my ball! If you don't want me to take it away from you you have to pay me something!". And the fans are all over him booing and telling him what a fucked up greedy idiot he is, but they don't want to give up his ball because it's better that any ball ever made and no other ball will make the game so spectacular. Well, bad luck. You should have asked him if it was OK to play with his ball (and make money off it) long ago. with the big difference that the neighbour (Blizzard) saw Kespa taking the ball. @above me... well u mb like SCII but there are some people who say its alrdy better then SC:BW for esports. and that is just bullcrap and yeah because the game is only out for 2 3 weeks. | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9479 Posts
On August 12 2010 03:38 AyJay wrote: Lol dude that is just your personal opinion. I find sc2 more entertaining than BW, yet you find SC2 more entertaining than Sc2 and yet theres this guy who finds Modern Warfare 2 kicks everyone's ass. So which game is better? Their all great and their is no need for discussions. I wasn't talking about which game you or I find more entertaining. Or in fact, which game do we LIKE more. I was simply stating which game is BETTER (mostly in terms of skill requiring to play each), and in that case the winner is clear. | ||
Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On August 12 2010 03:35 Milkis wrote: What if your neighbor was one of the people watching the game? And they even got your players to come to their conventions and represent the game? It's not like the neighbor just ignored it, but he partook in the activities passively. The entire IP issue comes from KeSPA selling broadcasting rights to OGN/MBC. Without that happening, Blizzard would have never, ever, cared. Yes, KeSPA isn't innocent, but it's not exactly fair for Blizzard to be so possessive to the point that it's hurting the broadcasters and the fans. Blizzard's enemy is KeSPA and they should be playing nice to the broadcasters to win them over, not just make their lives worse through this "business strategy". Blizzard's end goal should be concentrated on the KeSPA executive office, not on anyone else. One way of doing this was to let MSL/OSL happen without an issue, but create issues with the Proleague until KeSPA gives in. Remember that the MBC/OGN negotiations are going on separately from KeSPA's. If I got the gist of this whole story right, Blizzard tried to solve this quietly before taking drastic measures. KeSPA blew those negotiations by badmouthing and disrespecting Blizzard and Blizzard had to sign a deal on the broadcasting rights with Gretech. How Gretech, now the official and rightful owner of the broadcasting rights, decides to sublicense those rights is their own business. It does not surprise me at all to see them acting like jerks remembering how KeSPA and the channels butchered the GOM TV tournament. That said, I agree that fans are the ones who get hurt most in the end, which is very depressing. But all the parties involved are equally guilty, I just don't like people painting Blizzard as the greed incarnate when them protecting their rightful interests is all they do. Maybe myself being a developer makes me more likely to see where they are coming from, I don't know. | ||
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On August 12 2010 04:08 Random() wrote: If I got the gist of this whole story right, Blizzard tried to solve this quietly before taking drastic measures. KeSPA blew those negotiations by badmouthing and disrespecting Blizzard and Blizzard had to sign a deal on the broadcasting rights with Gretech. How Gretech, now the official and rightful owner of the broadcasting rights, decides to sublicense those rights is their own business. It does not surprise me at all to see them acting like jerks remembering how KeSPA and the channels butchered the GOM TV tournament. That said, I agree that fans are the ones who get hurt most in the end, which is very depressing. But all the parties involved are equally guilty, I just don't like people painting Blizzard as the greed incarnate when them protecting their rightful interests is all they do. Maybe myself being a developer makes me more likely to see where they are coming from, I don't know. I don't know enough about KeSPA - Blizzard relationships during that time, so I can't really comment. However, I can also see why KeSPA didn't agree to Blizzard's terms, as I do think Blizzard is being far too possessive. I don't think they understand "eSports" and only care about making sure they're not "wronged" in some way or another (tbh, I don't think they're being wronged but I can see why they'd feel that way). KeSPA and the channels didn't butcher GomTV, but it was a decision of several of the proteams to simply not participate in the Gom Leagues after KeSPA decided they weren't official matches anymore. Considering Gom Never did too well in Korea, due to production qualities (bad Korean commentators, "disagreeable" tournament formats, etc), I wouldn't be surprised that decision was based on other teams wanting to concentrate on the other leagues since all those games going on IS stressful to the players no matter how you cut it. Even then, I don't think it's the channels' fault, and I don't see why the channels even have to buy sublicenses, especially at supposedly high prices. MBC Game isn't doing too well overall from what I see from netizens and I'm hoping this won't tip them over the edge. Simply put, I disagree with how Gretech and Blizzard are planning on running the show, and I don't think it's good for the scene in the long run, or even the short run. | ||
MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
![]() + Show Spoiler + Bisu might never win another game ^^ | ||
Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On August 12 2010 04:19 Milkis wrote: I don't know enough about KeSPA - Blizzard relationships during that time, so I can't really comment. However, I can also see why KeSPA didn't agree to Blizzard's terms, as I do think Blizzard is being far too possessive. I don't think they understand "eSports" and only care about making sure they're not "wronged" in some way or another (tbh, I don't think they're being wronged but I can see why they'd feel that way). KeSPA and the channels didn't butcher GomTV, but it was a decision of several of the proteams to simply not participate in the Gom Leagues after KeSPA decided they weren't official matches anymore. Considering Gom Never did too well in Korea, due to production qualities (bad Korean commentators, "disagreeable" tournament formats, etc), I wouldn't be surprised that decision was based on other teams wanting to concentrate on the other leagues since all those games going on IS stressful to the players no matter how you cut it. Even then, I don't think it's the channels' fault, and I don't see why the channels even have to buy sublicenses, especially at supposedly high prices. MBC Game isn't doing too well overall from what I see from netizens and I'm hoping this won't tip them over the edge. Simply put, I disagree with how Gretech and Blizzard are planning on running the show, and I don't think it's good for the scene in the long run, or even the short run. Well, maybe "butchered" is too strong a word but that sanctioning the matches, then not sanctioning the matches story seemed pretty dirty to me, and I think there was more to it behind the scenes than merely caring about players. GOM was the first company to reach out to non-Korean viewers, and only for that they deserve my respect. Several of my friends were introduced to the Korean Starcraft only thanks to their English casts. They definitely could have fixed their issues with Korean broadcasts eventually if they were allowed to continue. But I have to agree that with all the promotion Starcraft 2 receives they could have just left BW alone, it is not their primary product anymore. | ||
LEGAsee
170 Posts
On August 12 2010 00:20 MICHELLE wrote: I seriously just wish that SC2 buzz will evaporate and that there will be no pro gaming scene for it. I just feel that it docent deserve it, at least for now. I think Blizzard wants part of the eSports dollar in Korea, so even if SC2 fails they will try to get more out of Broodwar than in the past. They probably figure they make large profits from the Broodwar licenses or the high cost kills BW and SC2 can move in. | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 12 2010 03:51 2Pacalypse- wrote: I wasn't talking about which game you or I find more entertaining. Or in fact, which game do we LIKE more. I was simply stating which game is BETTER (mostly in terms of skill requiring to play each), and in that case the winner is clear. To you BW is better because it requires more skill, to other guy this game is better because of the new strategies or maybe shinier graphics or maybe it's better because he finds it bearable to play and watch. There are many reasons why this guy says X game is better than Y game. You get my point. | ||
palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
On August 12 2010 05:21 AyJay wrote: To you BW is better because it requires more skill, to other guy this game is better because of the new strategies or maybe shinier graphics or maybe it's better because he finds it bearable to play and watch. There are many reasons why this guy says X game is better than Y game. You get my point. Well AyJay I think many of your posts are in BW section telling how SC2 is a better game, for you is a better game because??, please give me good reasons (about the game) not the ones that you have already stated ( the foreigners are playing it, it has all the tournaments outside korea, TLO who is my hero is busy playing all day long, etc) those which make me think that you have zero RTS playing background. | ||
moopie
12605 Posts
On August 12 2010 03:27 Random() wrote: I see no problem with Blizzard's position. "But they didn't care for 7 years" is such a bad argument. It's like you took your neighbour's unique ball while he wasn't looking and used it to play a great spectacular game for 7 years, gathering a lot of fans and making money from broadcasts. Nobody cared that it wasn't your ball. Then the neighbour comes and says "Hey, that's my ball! If you don't want me to take it away from you you have to pay me something!". And the fans are all over him booing and telling him what a fucked up greedy idiot he is, but they don't want to give up his ball because it's better that any ball ever made and no other ball will make the game so spectacular. Well, bad luck. You should have asked him if it was OK to play with his ball (and make money off it) long ago. That analogy would work if you took your neighbor's ball and played with it, and for 7 year's he'd brag to the neighborhood about how awesome his ball is and how its great to see you play with it. After 7 years, suddenly your neighbor goes "how dare you play with my ball, give me $$$!". | ||
Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On August 12 2010 07:39 moopie wrote: That analogy would work if you took your neighbor's ball and played with it, and for 7 year's he'd brag to the neighborhood about how awesome his ball is and how its great to see you play with it. After 7 years, suddenly your neighbor goes "how dare you play with my ball, give me $$$!". True I guess ![]() ![]() | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
Brood War is kinda sold as a product as well, so the ball analogy will be people bought the replica of the balls, learned ways to play them, and earned money from showing people the innovative ways they play with the balls. Well, analogies are over-simplifications of the matter at hand and is merely sophistry for moral debate. | ||
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Milkis
5003 Posts
On August 12 2010 09:50 bearbuddy wrote: Was the right to broadcast explicitly stated in Brood War's terms of contract? Brood War is kinda sold as a product as well, so the ball analogy will be people bought the replica of the balls, learned ways to play them, and earned money from showing people the innovative ways they play with the balls. Well, analogies are over-simplifications of the matter at hand and is merely sophistry for moral debate. It's supposedly legal in Korea as long as you own a copy of the game. | ||
Lokian
United States699 Posts
On August 12 2010 03:43 rasers wrote: with the big difference that the neighbour (Blizzard) saw Kespa taking the ball. @above me... well u mb like SCII but there are some people who say its alrdy better then SC:BW for esports. and that is just bullcrap and yeah because the game is only out for 2 3 weeks. Blizzard saw Kespa taking the ball. Blizzard tried to negotiate with Kespa, but after three years, Kespa still think nothing will change if nothing is agreed upon. Well too late for Kespa, the ball was handed to someone else after three years of haggling. Even though Blizzard was being nice and tried to work with Kespa, Kespa started to get even more mean near the end when blizz tried to host tournaments but Kespa pulled the ball away once again. I still don't understand why Kespa is being so greedy with the e-sports scene. It could've been more big with them (thats when all the foreign folks started to recognize the korean SC scene), and they would get more money in the long run, but they were just too afraid they would lose the ball forever I guess. Well, its finally happened. The ball has been pryed away from Kespa's grasp, and the scene won't be limited to Korea. That sux doesn't it. | ||
Highways
Australia6098 Posts
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Comet702
China236 Posts
I have translated this thread into Chinese and posted on wfbrood.com. I have clearly stated that this was taken from here and I will bring the feedback from China back to here. Here is the link:http://bbs.wfbrood.com/thread-18661-1-1.html Thanks! | ||
FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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wiesel
Germany727 Posts
On August 12 2010 10:35 FabledIntegral wrote: I honestly preferred the GSLs (if you wanted to call them that, which a lot of people did, despite not actually being starleagues) over the MSL and OSLs due to the English commentary. pfftff. BW without korean screamings? blasphemy.. But yea a lots of the new people who just found out about sc in '08 enjoyed the english commentary. | ||
night terrors
China1284 Posts
On August 12 2010 10:15 Lokian wrote: Blizzard saw Kespa taking the ball. Blizzard tried to negotiate with Kespa, but after three years, Kespa still think nothing will change if nothing is agreed upon. Well too late for Kespa, the ball was handed to someone else after three years of haggling. Even though Blizzard was being nice and tried to work with Kespa, Kespa started to get even more mean near the end when blizz tried to host tournaments but Kespa pulled the ball away once again. I still don't understand why Kespa is being so greedy with the e-sports scene. It could've been more big with them (thats when all the foreign folks started to recognize the korean SC scene), and they would get more money in the long run, but they were just too afraid they would lose the ball forever I guess. Well, its finally happened. The ball has been pryed away from Kespa's grasp, and the scene won't be limited to Korea. That sux doesn't it. You're quite deluded aren'tcha? | ||
pSeUd0
14 Posts
I have been following the whole drama regarding the control over E-Sports since GOM was "forced" to end its broadcasts. Personally i´d rather side with Gretech´s open policy (assuming they tell the truth) but in the end, subjective views wont change anything. the following question might be somewhat off topic but as of now i am too curious no to ask. i am an economics major and have focused on corporate finance, IP and corporate control structures. therefor i´d like to assess the situation from a corporate point of view. the problem i face right now is that i find myself unable to compile the data necessary to model the situation. as far as i get it, the situation is quiet complex. I read most of the threads regarding this issue but i usually feel that there is too much rage going on to tell wether given information is objective. no offense meant. Is there someone around who is able to describe the complete corporate structures in terms of control rights between the partys (Gretech, Gom, MBC Game, Kespa, OGN, etc)? same goes for the respective subordinated / supoerordinate firms. moreover id love to have a clear definition of what is refered to when ppl talk of "the players" or "the teams" again it doesnt matter to me wether the corporate entitis are profit maximizers or the supposedly "bad" or "good" guys. So for answering my question, keep it to data and numbers ![]() ty in advance and again, sry 4 the offtopic question | ||
okum
France5777 Posts
On August 12 2010 10:15 Lokian wrote: Well, its finally happened. The ball has been pryed away from Kespa's grasp, and the scene won't be limited to Korea. That sux doesn't it. That pesky Kespa, blocking foreign BW during all these years. | ||
ryseungoo
Canada91 Posts
On August 12 2010 14:42 okum wrote: That pesky Kespa, blocking foreign BW during all these years. Damn Kespa. Atleast Blizzard is starting ESPORTS anew with SC2 by throwing a bunch of money at it, which will solve the lack of interest people have in ESPORTS in the foreign scene, as demonstrated by CGS. | ||
moopie
12605 Posts
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On August 12 2010 10:15 Lokian wrote: Well, its finally happened. The ball has been pryed away from Kespa's grasp, and the scene won't be limited to Korea. That sux doesn't it. wtf are you talking about | ||
regerstreen
Canada57 Posts
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robertdinh
803 Posts
On August 12 2010 15:47 regerstreen wrote: It's amusing how those newcomers somehow reach a conclusion that kespa was scheming all along to prevent esports from developing in the west Starcraft2 has a KISS of cherry. | ||
Heimatloser
Germany1494 Posts
On August 12 2010 15:47 regerstreen wrote: It's amusing how those newcomers somehow reach a conclusion that kespa was scheming all along to prevent esports from developing in the west The thing is called sarcasm... I could live with OSL and Gom-Classic beeing the new 2 hot leagues of Starcraft-Broodwar. I could not live with only OSL or only Gom-Classic surviving. But im not sure if GOM goes the right way, ofc, they now have blizzard behind them and are the superpower of korean broodwar, but what if blizzard one day decides to stop all broodwar? What should GOM do then? And i think this might be very possible with plans already existing... | ||
Comet702
China236 Posts
I have translated this news into Chinese and posted on wfbrood.com. Now I bring the feedback from China back to here. It's no surprise to find that almost all the Chinese fans who have read this news have showed their angry to BLZ or GomTV, fans just want to watch the game and don't care aboout anything like licensing fee or whatever. They want BLZ and GomTV know that "Running your sc2 and plz let BW alone, we love this game!" | ||
Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On August 12 2010 16:43 Comet702 wrote: Hi TLers, Comet from wfbrood.com(China). I have translated this news into Chinese and posted on wfbrood.com. Now I bring the feedback from China back to here. It's no surprise to find that almost all the Chinese fans who have read this news have showed their angry to BLZ or GomTV, fans just want to watch the game and don't care aboout anything like licensing fee or whatever. They want BLZ and GomTV know that "Running your sc2 and plz let BW alone, we love this game!" That's pretty much exactly what should be expected, since they don't get English commentary anyway. That's the only thing GOM has that made it likeable. | ||
aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
and all of you who are talking about BW being played outside korea .. yeah we have that .. its called WORLD CYBER GAMES .. but even in that division, we can't take korea .. they are true GOSU with it .. SC2 wouldn't have been THIS "BIG" if it wasn't for what the Korean Scene did to the Great RTS that is SC:BW (it's PREQUEL) .. people who likes SC2 more than BW only cares about themselves. They love SC2 because they might have a chance at becoming big progamers, but even now they are being owned by korean players in B.Net2. also, when there is ANOTHER SHINY NEW TOY in stores near the, I bet that they are gonna forget SC2 (if SC2 COULD EVEN TOP SC:BW Scene the way BW scene is now) .. seeing how some of the people here have arguements about "they like a game with better graphics, new things to discover, etc.,".. BW grew without having the best graphics .. BW grew because of the people who invested time, sweat, and tears to make this scene what it is now .. I just cant see how your SC2 INTERNATIONAL SCENE is going to grow .. all of your dreams about televised SC2, International League and International Proscene are pretty far fetched .. simple as that .. | ||
newvsoldschool
428 Posts
He did come off as rude, but do you honestly not see that Blizzard can (and is trying to) globalize e-sports, unlike KeSPA? | ||
aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
On August 12 2010 18:30 newvsoldschool wrote: He did come off as rude, but do you honestly not see that Blizzard can (and is trying to) globalize e-sports, unlike KeSPA? no .. heres an example .. that game called W.O.W. and WC3 .. WoW boasting 10 million users World wide .. not a single proscene that can be compared to BW .. WC3 .. shiny .. had the potential .. was dominated by chinese and koreans and a stong french dude .. poorly developed and patched .. mediocre proscene .. CS has a bigger proscene outside Korea than this .. dominated by 1 race in-game .. also .. culture differences, mentality towards e-games, and the lack of hard core fan base, AND ABOVE ALL .. Talent | ||
newvsoldschool
428 Posts
On August 12 2010 18:36 aimaimaim wrote: no .. heres an example .. that game called W.O.W. and WC3 .. WoW boasting 10 million users World wide .. not a single proscene that can be compared to BW .. WC3 .. shiny .. had the potential .. was dominated by chinese and koreans and a stong french dude .. poorly developed and patched .. mediocre proscene .. CS has a bigger proscene outside Korea than this .. dominated by 1 race in-game .. also .. culture differences, mentality towards e-games, and the lack of hard core fan base, AND ABOVE ALL .. Talent Well this is Starcraft, not any of those games. Starcraft was made with race balance in mind. Blizzard's efforts towards putting those two other games in a limelight as a competitive sport isn't as great as Starcraft's, or they wouldn't go this far. WoW is a terribly imbalanced game, virtually no skill required aside from very few certain combination of class/specs, and the competitive scene and overall skill requirement is a huge joke. I have no strong opinion of WC3, but from what I've seen it's just the same way Terrans have dominated BW pro scene in its early years. One incredibly talented player decided to play his favorite race, and because he's probably more skilled than anyone else, it has made the illusion that it's imbalanced towards his race. | ||
aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
On August 12 2010 18:44 newvsoldschool wrote: Well this is Starcraft, not any of those games. Starcraft was made with race balance in mind. Blizzard's efforts towards putting those two other games in a limelight as a competitive sport isn't as great as Starcraft's, or they wouldn't go this far. WoW is a terribly imbalanced game, virtually no skill required aside from very few certain combination of class/specs, and the competitive scene and overall skill requirement is a huge joke. I have no strong opinion of WC3, but from what I've seen it's just the same way Terrans have dominated BW pro scene in its early years. One incredibly talented player decided to play his favorite race, and because he's probably more skilled than anyone else, it has made the illusion that it's imbalanced towards his race. Blizzard never gave a shit about SC:BW until 2007 .. wtf are you talking about "blizzard's efforts"? regardless of balance .. look at DotA .. might be the most FAMOUS game ever .. more famous than SC, CS, WC3, WoW, Halo, can ever be with 2 games coming from it (HoN and LoL) .. with all of the countries having at least 1 compentent representative for it. balance maybe an issue .. but this is esport, RTS scene is just a part of it .. and your argument was blizzard handling international esport .. its highly improbable. with all the limitations in its new connectivity called B.net2, with its handling towards the people who gave them the fame they have now. i just can't see it. and regarding WC3 .. it wasn't about race really .. its about blizzard not patching/fixing the game so that it can be a great spectator sport .. from early 2009 (i think) one race have ruled the game .. sure, having an strong "imba" race is acceptable but not fixing it for so long .. makes you wonder what are the priorities of blizzard. | ||
sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On August 12 2010 18:30 newvsoldschool wrote: He did come off as rude, but do you honestly not see that Blizzard can (and is trying to) globalize e-sports, unlike KeSPA? Koreane-Sports Players Association wasn't trying to expand outside of Korea, no. It just sort of "happened" because of the popularity of the concept they were developing/broadcasting. There's no "effort" by Blizzard "for the good of e-sports". If you believe the contrary, you're delusional. The "Everyone can do it" concept is only good if you're designing small childrens' games/activities, designing help programs for the mentally challenged, or if you just want to make your product the most appealing thing ever to the average idiotic consumer. The point of competition is to produce an elitist subculture that strives to be "the best". "Successful Esports" and "For Everyone" simply don't go together. You need to understand basic differences and concepts like these before trying to glorify a side. | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 12 2010 18:18 aimaimaim wrote: and all of you who are talking about BW being played outside korea .. yeah we have that .. its called WORLD CYBER GAMES ... and Blizzcon. So what? 2 tournaments in 1 year is not enough to keep foreign BW scene alive. | ||
aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
On August 12 2010 20:32 AyJay wrote: and Blizzcon. So what? 2 tournaments in 1 year is not enough to keep foreign BW scene alive. what? its actually great that it (foreign scene) lasted so long with more than 90% of it cant even compete with koreans .. also .. its about people who showcases games for entertainment .. the foreign scene was full of players with no innovation, thats why foreigners cant keep any RTS scene alive outside korea/asia. i dont want to see people doing shitty plays .. its all good that SC2 gets what its getting now .. blizzard just need to KEEP AWAY FROM BW .. but they cant .. they want money .. thats why they are trying to kill it .. and right now, just like in SC2, top foreigners can't even beat top koreans .. and these koreans aren't even really organized yet .. p.s. people who side SC2 doesnt get what BW fans like .. WE WANT BLIZZ TO KEEP OUT OF BW AS WE DONT WANT TO DO ANYTHING OF THEIR SC2 .. but NOOOO .. they want to kill BW, so that they can have money .. this is the reason why flame sc2 fans for not getting the point .. its like WC3, WoW, CS, DotA .. most of us dont care about your scene .. leave our scene alone .. also .. id like to add ESWC,TSL, Dream Hack .. and you say so what? tell me, how many international tournaments does other games have? | ||
robertdinh
803 Posts
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On August 12 2010 18:30 newvsoldschool wrote: He did come off as rude, but do you honestly not see that Blizzard can (and is trying to) globalize e-sports, unlike KeSPA? How are they doing that? Apart from saying they want to do that, everything they have done is in opposite to globalizing eSports. Just because GomTV might have foreign commentary that isn't globalizing eSports considering the qualifiers are in Korea only. What have they actually done that's a positive thing for global eSports? It just seems to me to be obstacle after obstacle and even going as far as disrupting the BW scene. | ||
FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On August 12 2010 12:05 wiesel wrote: pfftff. BW without korean screamings? blasphemy.. But yea a lots of the new people who just found out about sc in '08 enjoyed the english commentary. Haha yeah I guess I fall into that category. I got into the scene around 6 months before the first season... when I didn't know much at all about hte game. I also just liked how many friggin' games were played for it, and just how they were overall set up. | ||
Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On August 12 2010 18:30 newvsoldschool wrote: He did come off as rude, but do you honestly not see that Blizzard can (and is trying to) globalize e-sports, unlike KeSPA? Where has Blizzard been for the last decade? What is Blizzard doing for BW now? -_- | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 13 2010 04:37 Mindcrime wrote: Where has Blizzard been for the last decade? What is Blizzard doing for BW now? -_- but do you still think that Blizzard can't globalize e-sports? | ||
Zeridian
United States198 Posts
Companies are made for explicit means of making money. Corporations exist to satisfy the interests of shareholders. If neither existed for profits they would be the government, which produces 0 and takes your money. "everyone is bad" nice solution to everything guys. Good job being constructive onlookers. | ||
Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On August 13 2010 04:46 AyJay wrote: but do you still think that Blizzard can't globalize e-sports? It doesn't matter, because they're not. | ||
moopie
12605 Posts
On August 13 2010 04:46 AyJay wrote: but do you still think that Blizzard can't globalize e-sports? Can't? Blizzard/Activision theoretically could finance a new space program with their funding.. that doesn't mean that they will. | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 13 2010 05:45 moopie wrote: Can't? Blizzard/Activision theoretically could finance a new space program with their funding.. that doesn't mean that they will. Why not? | ||
moopie
12605 Posts
Cause for the 10th time (at least) in this thread, its not in their best interest. Planning tournaments takes a lot of time, effort and money. They are not looking to support a pro scene for a decade. They are going to try to throw money at it for a year or two, get the sales that the hype generates, and move on, as they always have. | ||
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9479 Posts
Dear God.... why don't you please just stay away from Broodwar forum? | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 13 2010 05:52 moopie wrote: Cause for the 10th time (at least) in this thread, its not in their best interest. Planning tournaments takes a lot of time, effort and money. They are not looking to support a pro scene for a decade. They are going to try to throw money at it for a year or two, get the sales that the hype generates, and move on, as they always have. Does it explain why Blizzard had thrown money in 2007 for GomTV? | ||
moopie
12605 Posts
On August 13 2010 06:24 AyJay wrote: Does it explain why Blizzard had thrown money in 2007 for GomTV? Yes, so they could try to capitalize on the Korean market, which they were shut out from (and had absolutely nothing to do with as far as its growth). Korea developed BW into an e-sport on their own, without any support from Blizzard. Blizzard never envisioned it would be a professional e-sport when they released it, I don't think anyone did. But Korea suceceded, got teams set up, sponsors, regular leagues and made BW huge. Blizzard decided they wanted a piece of that cake and tried to strong-arm KeSPA. KeSPA told them to piss off with their demands. Blizzard then tried to get in through GOM, and failed miserably. Now they are threatning to kill all of BW, all to make a buck. Also, as far as I remember, Blizzard didn't really step in until 3rd season of GOM Classic (which was 2009). | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 13 2010 06:28 moopie wrote: Yes, so they could try to capitalize on the Korean market, which they were shut out from (and had absolutely nothing to do with as far as its growth). Korea developed BW into an e-sport on their own, without any support from Blizzard. Blizzard never envisioned it would be a professional e-sport when they released it, I don't think anyone did. But Korea suceceded, got teams set up, sponsors, regular leagues and made BW huge. Blizzard decided they wanted a piece of that cake and tried to strong-arm KeSPA. KeSPA told them to piss off with their demands. Blizzard then tried to get in through GOM, and failed miserably. Now they are threatning to kill all of BW, all to make a buck. To take control of whole e-sports in Korea and abandon it in 2 years sounds like no brainer to me. They are not threatening to kill Bw. They want chunk of a pie. I don't see how that is killing BW and how killing BW will make them buck. | ||
moopie
12605 Posts
On August 13 2010 06:34 AyJay wrote: To take control of whole e-sports in Korea and abandon it in 2 years sounds like no brainer to me. They are not threatening to kill Bw. They want chunk of a pie. I don't see how that is killing BW and how killing BW will make them buck. lol... this is going nowhere. I suggest you start reading up some, I'm done here. | ||
TeWy
France714 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On August 11 2010 04:15 AyJay wrote: THERE ARE NO GOOD GUYS IN BUSINESS For the last fucking time. Every company wants some dollah and each has it's own way of achieving it: Blizzard making good games, Activision having Bobby Kodick and EA releasing tons of shitty products. While this is kind of true, there's a big difference between say, Activision and Valve. Activision over charges, doesn't listen to their fanbase, and pumps out games to create franchises causing the original game to become absolutely ruined. Valve, continually releases new IPs, updates their games for free, releases free expansions on PC, releases free games (see: Alien Swarm), and takes their time (usually) making new games which prevents the horrible staleness that Activision has created with franchises like Call of Duty or Guitar Hero. Sure, even companies like Valve have their faults and do things that are clearly for profit and not for their fan base, but there are obviously some companies who care more about profit than others. Can you honestly tell me that while MBC and Activision/Blizzard are both looking to make money that Activision/Blizzard are in the right in this situation? Why don't they just allow MBC to continue and make royalties off it? They're already making money for doing absolutely nothing extra and that's not even counting the people who will buy Brood War and SC2 after watching the MSL or other broadcasts. | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
You will need a vague argument to change my opinion. E-sports have such big potential for Blizzard it just seems fucking retarded for them to ignore it. No way. On August 13 2010 06:39 TeWy wrote: It's funny, no one knows the MBC turnover nor has any idea about how much money Gretech is asking, but most of the people are still going to take sides for one camp, no matter how clueless they are about the whole issue. Also this. I remember threads few months ago: * Blizzard isn't negotiating with Kespa Teamliquid: FUck yeah, die Kespa * Kespa says Blizzard asked too much/wasn't enough negotiation Teamliquid: Fuck Blizzard, go Kespa * Mike Morhaime writes letter for fans in Korea Teamliquid: Fuck yeah, die Kespa * GomTV and Blizzard contract Teamliquid: Die Blizzard, we neeed Kespa Stick to what you think, not what other companies or people tell you. There also have been discussions how SC2 would fail as an e-sport since 2007 and I won't believe it until it actually does :D | ||
moopie
12605 Posts
AyJay, I love how you try to lump TL as a single entity for its opinions to try to twist an argument that isn't there to make, kudos. Most people haven't flipped sides so many times on the issue (if at all). If you honestly believe that Blizzard wants to help esports grow worldwide, how come they haven't tried to replicate Korea's achievements elsewhere instead of trying to take over their progress? because its not worth the investment for them. To make an esport in another nation, you need players (and they need contracts so they don't bail after a week), you need sponsors for the teams, you need arrangements with TV stations so that you can guarantee constant air time for your leagues, and most of all, you need big sponsors to shell out a lot of money to fund your leagues. Now if any of these factors fail, you're out a ton of startup cash, months of intense effort and worse a lot of PR lost from the flop. Blizzard's idea of a worldwide e-sport is a ladder on battlenet and some air time on a fake TV station like GOMTV, and even that is thanks to what Korea did for BW, otherwise BW would have ended up like WC3. However, since Korea already developed their market, if Blizzard comes in with its lawyers and C&Ds and makes its demands, they stand to lose nothing. They either grab profits for work they don't need to do, or kill off a scene they have no stake in. From a fiscal risk vs reward perspective, its worth it, so they will go for it regardless of how many fans/players could get hurt. You just keep waiting patiently for Blizzard to swoop to save the day and develop proleagues and starleagues in the US and Europe, should happen any day now... any day... | ||
aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
On August 13 2010 06:24 AyJay wrote: Does it explain why Blizzard had thrown money in 2007 for GomTV? you are either gullible or trolling either way .. they throw money because SC2 is doing poor .. they want another 6 million copies in korea alone like what happened to BW .. you guys talk about blizzard taking over esport when they clearly dont give a damn about it .. they are boasting b.net2 to enhance the "gaming experience" but it ultimately separated the world from each other .. but wait! you can connect with them! BUY ANOTHER COPY NOW! esport my ass .. | ||
palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
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AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 13 2010 08:07 palexhur wrote: This AyJay guy is really funny: He says SC2 is better, but He doesnt give any real reason by comparing between the games themselves, now he says Blizz is interested in the development of e-sports around the world, again without giving us any reasonable income about it, and then the epic final, the people who disagree with him have to give him a valid point for his brain in order to change his mind. Well like other poster I am out, AyJay thinks whatever you want, if you think the earth is flat then let it be, the only conclusion that I have since i read your posts is that you dont have a single clue about RTS world and how to develop a market. I enjoy watching Brood war(only with english commentary though, I check out moletrap channel quite often), but I enjoy watching Sc2 videos more. I never said sc2 is better than Bw I said I prefer Sc2 over BW, because I find it more entertaining to watch. I said Blizzard is interested in development of e-sports because that means money for them. I post my own opinion what I think is going on. And I doubt anyone in this thread actually knows what blizzards goal with Sc2, Bw and e-sports is. | ||
sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On August 13 2010 18:32 AyJay wrote:I doubt anyone in this thread actually knows what blizzards goal with Sc2, Bw and e-sports is. No, but we have some really good educated guesses. SC2: Make money BW: Inherit market by any means necessary to make money. ESports: Saw the korean BW scene as a chance to make more money with their new toy. | ||
AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 13 2010 18:39 Diminotoor wrote: No, but we have some really good educated guesses. SC2: Make money BW: Inherit market by any means necessary to make money. ESports: Saw the korean BW scene as a chance to make more money with their new toy. Guesses are just guesses. | ||
DragonDefonce
United States790 Posts
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AyJay
1515 Posts
On August 13 2010 18:54 DragonDefonce wrote: This is total bullshit. Blizzard is asking for shitton of money, but at the same time diverting the bad press to gretech. They are looking more like activision than blizzard with the shit they are pulling now. Nobody knows how much money Gretech asks. | ||
maybenexttime
Poland5455 Posts
It's safe to assume it's a very unreasonable sum. They wanted KeSPA (i.e. OGN/MBC and others) to sign a 1 year contract, while they signed a 3 year one with GOMTV no problem. They (Blizzard) also had other ridiculous demands. | ||
Zona
40426 Posts
On August 13 2010 20:57 maybenexttime wrote: [Blizzard] wanted KeSPA (i.e. OGN/MBC and others) to sign a 1 year contract, while they signed a 3 year one with GOMTV no problem. They (Blizzard) also had other ridiculous demands. Yes - this point needs to be emphasized. The demands Blizzard made when negotiating with Kespa were relaxed when they negotiated with Gretech, so Blizzard intentionally offered poorer terms to the existing companies. Activision Blizzard never came to either negotiate or "assert its IP rights" until SC2 was on the horizon. For a packaged goods maker trying to sell their next product, it is ideal for them for interest in the previous game to wane, as those who are still interested in the previous game might not buy the sequel. | ||
Garaman
United States556 Posts
fuck em. | ||
Badjas
Netherlands2038 Posts
On August 13 2010 20:57 maybenexttime wrote: It's safe to assume it's a very unreasonable sum. They wanted KeSPA (i.e. OGN/MBC and others) to sign a 1 year contract, while they signed a 3 year one with GOMTV no problem. They (Blizzard) also had other ridiculous demands. The only source we have for this information is Kespa and Blizzard. I trust neither one of them to tell the truth. | ||
cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
On August 13 2010 22:27 Badjas wrote: The only source we have for this information is Kespa and Blizzard. I trust neither one of them to tell the truth. The basic outline yes. The details, no. Still, I wonder what deal OGN made with Gretech/Activision. Please let it not be a deal with the devil. | ||
overt
United States9006 Posts
Either way, not giving every single purchaser access to LAN support with SC2 is all the proof anyone should need that someone at Activision/Blizzard doesn't care about growing e-Sports throughout the world. Now, what about growing e-Sports in South Korea? If Blizzard really and truly wanted the Brood War scene to continue growing and picking up fans what would they do? The most logical thing for them to do if they really wanted to grow the e-Sports scene in South Korea would simply be to do nothing at all. It's already been grown by MBC, OGN, and KeSPA. These three have done a fantastic job and honestly have helped make Blizzard a very rich company with Blizzard not having to do a single thing, they've just been benefiting from the hard work of a few South Korean companies. Now, if Blizzard didn't care about growing e-Sports in South Korea and simply cared about profits what would they do? Exactly what they're doing now. Honestly, I think that whatever executive at Activision/Blizzard that's making these decisions would be happy if MBC went down and could no longer do the MSL. It means less competition for Gretech and more money for Blizzard/Activision. | ||
Badjas
Netherlands2038 Posts
On August 14 2010 03:41 overt wrote: Or did they release a special LAN version for tournaments? Yes. | ||
Severedevil
United States4831 Posts
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
Just as your opinions are guesses (presumably also based on other information). | ||
emucxg
Finland4559 Posts
They did? or they "will"? | ||
overt
United States9006 Posts
Either way, they should give everyone access to that rather than people who they deem worthy of LAN ready copies. But I guess asking a developer to do what every other developer besides them does is just too much to ask these days... ![]() | ||
aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
they did .. but its still sort of online .. cant really know .. there is an authentication that wants you to give your serial(?) and there also have to be a BLIZZARD representative/technician .. | ||
Claytor656
United States15 Posts
I would like to point out that Kotick has stated numerous times his feelings on gaming. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kotick I'm not going to pull quotes from something you should read if you think Blizzard is not trying to do anything but increase the company's worth at all times. It's not their fault, gaming became a very large and profitable industry. I also do not feel that 100% of the drive is money either, I just feel the people who care about story, gameplay, and art are in the minority at that company. I do not feel this was the case at all times, I see a changing trend. It's the same way across all the industry. EA and the Infinity Ward fiasco was a good show of what to expect and E3 and it's continual decline ( I may not be accurate on this, I just do not know anyone who cares about it anymore myself) is another fine indicator of a growing sequel driven, Hollywood blockbuster style marketing of gaming. | ||
Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
I just can't believe all these blizzard fanboys that are still so optimistic with blizzard after all the shit they pulled. Also, I want my goddamn MSL(and other leagues of course) ![]() | ||
maybenexttime
Poland5455 Posts
Oh really? How come Blizzard themselves denied that rumour? | ||
Badjas
Netherlands2038 Posts
On August 14 2010 18:09 maybenexttime wrote: Oh really? How come Blizzard themselves denied that rumour? here you go. Mentions the original rumor, what's false and what's true. Now I don't know the status of their patching. Right now, there is a showmatch on GOM tv with SC2 being played. Maybe they play on a local server (= LAN), which could imply that the players are not visible as being online to others on the asia server, thought this might still be the case. Interesting to try anyway. | ||
maybenexttime
Poland5455 Posts
On August 14 2010 18:24 Badjas wrote: here you go. Mentions the original rumor, what's false and what's true. Now I don't know the status of their patching. Right now, there is a showmatch on GOM tv with SC2 being played. Maybe they play on a local server (= LAN), which could imply that the players are not visible as being online to others on the asia server, thought this might still be the case. Interesting to try anyway. Addressing the needs of location based pro tournaments =/= LAN. According to Pearce they addressed the lack of chatroom by making matchmaking better. lol Unless they specifically say that they're going to add LAN and that it's going to be available to everyone, I'm not trusting them and their empty promises. | ||
Badjas
Netherlands2038 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5455 Posts
Sigaty confirmed that "Professional Edition" is just a rumour in the community chat. Whatever they mean by "addressing the needs of location based tournaments" is unknown. Your link is not a proof of anything. Simply saying "LAN support is a strict necessity when it comes to bigger tournaments" does not prove that that's what they're intending to implement. | ||
Avitohol
Bulgaria125 Posts
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shalafi
394 Posts
On August 14 2010 04:57 Severedevil wrote: Boycott SC2 until BW leagues are safe from Blizzard. Yeah, I'm doing that. I don't play buying SC2 unless there are still BW leagues when the 2nd SC2 expansion is released. I'm happy I proved wrong all the "you'll buy it anyway!" crowd. | ||
maybenexttime
Poland5455 Posts
On August 14 2010 22:11 shalafi wrote: Yeah, I'm doing that. I don't play buying SC2 unless there are still BW leagues when the 2nd SC2 expansion is released. I'm happy I proved wrong all the "you'll buy it anyway!" crowd. Haha, same here. At first I was tempted to buy it because I got my ankle twisted and couldn't do sports for a while, but then I watched some sick BW progames and played some iCCup, and I was cured. ![]() | ||
IamAnton
Canada335 Posts
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konadora
![]()
Singapore66072 Posts
On August 14 2010 22:26 maybenexttime wrote: Haha, same here. At first I was tempted to buy it because I got my ankle twisted and couldn't do sports for a while, but then I watched some sick BW progames and played some iCCup, and I was cured. ![]() BW - to cure AIDS and cancer in 2012 | ||
konadora
![]()
Singapore66072 Posts
On August 19 2010 18:55 IamAnton wrote: I find it hilarious that MBC was surprised at all they'd need to liscence both tournaments seperately. Sign the contract and get it over with, Kespa was broadcasting illegaly and you will/deserve to pay for it now. Blame Kespa since it IS all there fault. lolwut? how is it kespa's fault | ||
Jakalo
Latvia2350 Posts
All your base are belong to blizzard ![]() ![]() | ||
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