On May 13 2010 04:47 hp.Shell wrote: Failing that, get several, maybe 5-8 DAs, and have your main army consist of zealots and high templar with DA and arbiter support. Then, you can use storm to create clumps of tanks (force the tanks to "dodge" into a clump) and then stasis them. Then you could MC half of the rest of the tanks, then hallucinate the DAs with your excess templar to retreat so they don't die, rinse, repeat.
Lol this paragraph HAS to be a joke.
5-8 DAs? main army of zealots and hts? storming to create clumps?
I know your allowed to theory-craft but cmon.
1.5-8 DAs costs 625/500 - 1000/800 thats A LOT OF MONEY for units that will die the second they gets in tank/vulture range without even a chance of casting MC.
2.A main army of zealots will be slaughtered by vults + mines
3.And when terrans get stormed, they don't clump to avoid more storm, common sense man lol
Seriously, Protoss players are like: - Recall 15-20 units into Terran main. - Kill Armory + some Vultures. - DIE.
Why not...:
...Recall to defend distant bases? ...Recall Speedlots over Terran sieged army? ...Recall into enemy main -> kill Armories -> Recall back to safety? ...Recall + Stasis-at-choke combo?
Few examples were already set, but I feel those techniques are criminally underused.
Completely agree with this, I think most korean pro's use their arbiters rather poorly. One of the best examples would be EVER 2009 OSL finals Movie vs Flash, finals which Movie could have won.
Another thing to mention is the combination of arbiters + high templars and arbiters + reavers. Recalling these combinations is 100% more deadly though more than often I do not see them. If a player recalls to enemy main with shuttle + 2 reavers along and invests some apm to properly micro, it could kill so many units and clumped depots too omg!!
better strats against flash would be:- -12nexus -fast DTs lol -4 gate goons timing attack -reaver harrass -double shuttle harrass -mid/late game tech switch 2 carriers, with goon/ht support -a successful reccall, followed up a statis at ramp - 2 reccalls all-in lol
I would go: Fast DT rush/Fast reaver harass with fast shuttle-> Mass reaver with speed shuttles/ an electronic fart thing that is hidden in Flash's cpu making him very, very confused and it will cause him to be thrown off his game into a fart slump ^^.
On May 13 2010 06:28 Wings wrote: I'm sure people have said this before, but I'll say it again.
Problem 1. Flash wins not necessarily by his "hanbang" attack... but by methodically destroying your expansions. Kal always gets his hugeass carrier force and then Flash kills all the expos during the transition, leading to no money for interceptors. So, first problem with this DA theory is that Kal does NOT have the luxury of spending all those minerals at a crucial time, the 1st tank will take FAR too long to pop out (I saw the stats someone posted earlier above), by then Flash will have destroyed all the expos as usual, and also that money could have been used for ground forces to stall Flash while carrier tech is achieved. Let's say Kal HAD the minerals and HAD freaking forever to build Tanks. That would mean he's essentially in a position where he is far, far, far ahead of Flash; at Kal's current skill level, it would seem much more reasonable to kill Flash the normal way, with recalls/stasis/carriers/storm etc. I actually think storm is waay undervalued in late game PvT...
Problem 2. Upgrades. By then, Flash will have 3/3 upgrades vs 0/0 upgrades. I'm not sure whether you've fought in this sort of situation before, but if you have, you would know that this is utter RAPE. if Flash has a 200/200 tank/goliath army, your tanks are gonna be absolutely RAPED. If he has ONLY goliaths, then maybe you'll be good... but this is Flash. Do you think that he really won't notice Kal's CC & Factories for so freaking long??
ALTERNATIVE: I was considering the DA thing for one reason (NOT mind control); it would be interesting to try and use MAELSTROM on the clumped goliaths. Then Kal could kill huge numbers of goliaths while they just sat there. This would be really interesting to watch, because goliaths get really clumped up sometimes...
Ummm you cant maelstrom mech units... On topic. It's a nice idea but the game will probably end before a tank can come out.!
lol whoops. sry i completely forgot, i've only played terran for the past 4/5 years...
lol, as someone above said..this might work on flash for maybe one or two games then hed just say "no" and emp any DAs
plus...doing a succesfful DA drop into mind control scv without the scv or shuttle dying is a long shot against flash..especially with his reaction time, building placement, and the fact that its way late game.
Not to mention, the time itll take to build up a terran army...i highly doubt flash would let that happen really
Seriously, Protoss players are like: - Recall 15-20 units into Terran main. - Kill Armory + some Vultures. - DIE.
Why not...:
...Recall to defend distant bases? ...Recall Speedlots over Terran sieged army? ...Recall into enemy main -> kill Armories -> Recall back to safety? ...Recall + Stasis-at-choke combo?
Few examples were already set, but I feel those techniques are criminally underused.
Completely agree with this, I think most korean pro's use their arbiters rather poorly. One of the best examples would be EVER 2009 OSL finals Movie vs Fantasy, finals which Movie could have won.
Another thing to mention is the combination of arbiters + high templars and arbiters + reavers. Recalling these combinations is 100% more deadly though more than often I do not see them. If a player recalls to enemy main with shuttle + 2 reavers along and invests some apm to properly micro, it could kill so many units and clumped depots too omg!!
Crap I missed those finals, who won?
On a serious note I assume ur talking about Flash, and I have no idea what you mean when you think Movie could have won. (Wasn't his vT not-so-hot at that point?)
But with ur point about the reavers, I agree that microing reavers inside the enemy base WITH goons/zeal support would be powerful, but I'm guessing there's some downside to it which is the main reason that progamers don't focus on that much. I'm guessing it's because with all the sieged tanks/mines/turrets in the base the reavers become much less effective - even with proper micro.
On May 13 2010 09:05 HeadhunteR wrote: the real answer THE STOVE..
Lol
EDIT: Hey Wings, goliaths CANNOT be maelstromed. It's only for biological units
On May 13 2010 02:57 Djabanete wrote: Last season:
1. Flash rolls all zerg players (Effort, Calm, Zero, Jaedong in BoX's, am I missing anyone?) 2. People wonder how zerg can ever defeat Flash. 3. Jaedong does it.
This season:
1. Flash rolls all protoss players (all 6 dragons on kill list, Pure gets swatted) 2. People wonder how protoss can ever defeat Flash. 3. Flash wins OSL
Next season:
1. Flash rolls all protoss players and reaches finals 2. Flash loses to nal_rA. Games will probably involve nal_rA building tanks
Really, someone just needs to step it up, and I'm 99% sure that when they do, it won't involve mind control.
There, I combined your post with the OP to make a post about truth
If Dark Archon + mind control could work on flash, then he wouldn't be owning tosses w/ his TvP right now.
It's hard to imagine flash losing right now, cause his TvP is just too good. I would suggest high templar against him, but he can just snipe them before storm is even casted (movie vs flash game 2 EVER OSL 2009). I'm really looking forward to a protoss beating Flash in a bo5, or even a bo3. =\
Seriously, Protoss players are like: - Recall 15-20 units into Terran main. - Kill Armory + some Vultures. - DIE.
Why not...:
...Recall to defend distant bases? ...Recall Speedlots over Terran sieged army? ...Recall into enemy main -> kill Armories -> Recall back to safety? ...Recall + Stasis-at-choke combo?
Few examples were already set, but I feel those techniques are criminally underused.
Completely agree with this, I think most korean pro's use their arbiters rather poorly. One of the best examples would be EVER 2009 OSL finals Movie vs Fantasy, finals which Movie could have won.
Another thing to mention is the combination of arbiters + high templars and arbiters + reavers. Recalling these combinations is 100% more deadly though more than often I do not see them. If a player recalls to enemy main with shuttle + 2 reavers along and invests some apm to properly micro, it could kill so many units and clumped depots too omg!!
Hahaha what when?
Not only has Fantasy like never won a finals but uh...what? lol
macro, storm, stasis, macro, storm, stasis, macro, recall. Until you're dripping with sweat like Much was. Honestly, 1a2a is the easy part, it's everything in between which defines a good protoss player.
EPT
