|
EDIT> DEADLINE IS MAY 16 (Monday), 2010, 11:59:59 EDT. SUBMIT YOUR MAPS BEFORE THEN!
Late entries may be accepted as long as they are submitted before judging finishes, but you should provide a very good reason as to why it should be accepted other than "lol I wuz like drunk for f1v3 dayz and had a huuuuuuuuuuge hangover".
NOTE: Rules outlined in this topic are NOT STRINGENT. They may be violated to some extent reasonably, but they are mainly there so you can't make cheap maps such as an island with 10 gas expansions and no gas in main or something.
Someone had asked me to make an imbalanced map, so I whipped up this in about 5 minutes or so; unfortunately, it appears that the map was not as imbalanced as I thought, with fairly equal win rates for all non-mirror matchups from some preliminary testing. I asked myself: How imbalanced can a melee map be without creative deviations from the norm?
Which brings us to...
The Imbalanced Melee Map Contest
Rules:
-Your map must be of a standard size. No 64x256 maps or anything bigger than 128x128.
-Your map must be symmetrical in all aspects (terrain, resources, etc.). The imbalance to strive for is race imbalance, not positional imbalance.
-Your map must follow the standard melee guidelines, meaning:
+ Show Spoiler +-A ground type map. No island maps. -A main of reasonable size. -Expo layout must be standard (Nat, 3rd gas/minonly, etc.) -Choke/ramp sizes must be standard. Terran must be able to wallin with at most 3 buildings at either the main or the natural, and zerg must require no more than 1 non-expansion hatchery to place sunkens. -Neutrals are to be used sparingly for strategic reasons. No comsat at nat/nuke silos in base/9000 creep colonies in each main/other similar things. -Islands are to be blocked with a 8-mineral field. -Minerals are to be placed a normal distance from the mains. One or two gas per main. -No more minerals at a double gas main than Baekmagoji. -Mains must have 8/9 minerals if it has 1 gas. -Naturals are to be gas expansions with 6-8 minerals. -Gas Expansions and mineral-only bases must have no more minerals than your natural. -Travel time between bases must not exceed 60 seconds.
-No "creative" ploys such as covering the whole map in creep/spider mines/DTs/Lurker eggs/sealing the main off with crystals/blocking gas expansions with stacked buildings/etc.
-Troy gates: use sparingly. Seriously.
-Other restrictions may be added and will apply retroactively at the judges' discretion, simply because there are too many loopholes to cover.
Sample entry: + Show Spoiler +Map image: ![[image loading]](http://i40.tinypic.com/14v1jqv.png) Map file: http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=4093(Link to BWMN, Repdepot, Mediafire, or any other site that hosts WITHOUT the 45/60 second download waits) Analysis of why it is imbalanced: -Creeped ramp forcing 3-building wallins by terran away from the ramp. -Three entries to main favoring backdoor pushes by T. -Narrow pathways favoring mutalisks -Cliffs close to mineral lines favoring mutalisks -Back of main favoring guardians and drops -Faraway 3rd gas and no min-only making P difficult to expand Replays: (optional) -Use Repdepot. No exceptions.
Judging will be performed either by me (if no one else volunteers) or mapping/melee experts who volunteer themselves. The prize is a StarCraft Beta key for the first and second place winners.
Good luck and have fun!
|
Way too many things one would have to cover via rules
I would like more explanation of "standard choke/ramp size". You mean main to natural choke right?
-are tau cross and heartbreak ridge considered standard main->natural choke sizes?
What's standard expo layout?
-Can you have mineral patches like in ride of the valkyries, or el nino (great barrier reef)
-Can you have random gas patchs in main->natural area at all?
-I assume naturals cannot be island only
-Can you have naturals that are protected only?
-Is there a limit to protected naturals?
About general map layout:
-I assume you can't make bottlenecks? What guidelines must be used regarding that?
-Can you have cliffs without ramps over mains or naturals?
-I take it mains must have only 1 entrance to opponent via ground?
-where can unbuildable terrain be placed?
-The sunkens zerg place do what? protect the main, the natural, or both? How close can the sunkens potentially be to the natural/main ramp to count as protection?
-no limit to natural entrances to opponent? or is that covered by zerg hatcheries for sunken?
|
how would you judge? how would you tell if its actually imbalanced without 30 games from korean semipros?
|
On MaY 09 2010 09:17 Xapti wrote:Way too many things one would have to cover via rules I would like more explanation of "standard choke/ramp size". You mean main to Natural choke right? -are Tau Cross and Heartbreak Ridge considered standard main->Natural choke sizes? About 2 matrices/grid tiles for flat chokes, or 1 default doodad ramp size. Can be wider in certain situations, obviously, as is with Blue Storm's main-natural, but it shouldn't be some ludicrous span that's the size of your Natural.What's standard expo layout? You have a main and a single Natural, and expansions are placed reasonably so that players can take their minonly/3rd Gas.-Can you have Mineral patches like in ride of the valkyries, or el nino (Great Barrier Reef) Not sure what you mean here. -Can you have random Gas patchs in main->Natural area at all? Why would you have space to put vespene geysers between the main and Natural? Also, try not to spam gas-only expansions.-I assume naturals cannot be island Only Correct. Natural must be reachable from main in under 15 seconds by land. -Can you have naturals that are protected Only? Protected Only?-Is there a limit to protected naturals? You should Only have one Natural.About general map layout: -I assume you can't make bottlenecks? What guidelines must be used regarding that? Bottlenecks as in long narrow paths, or bottlenecks like the small unit gap in Blue Storm? You can have long narrow paths, but generally you would want at least one path Where a 200/200 ground army can be mobilized through with relative ease.-I take it mains must have Only 1 entrance to opponent via ground? Mains can have more than one entrance. Additional entrances should either be blocked by stacked 0 minerals (Check Destination) or a neutral (Check Medusa). -no limit to Natural entrances to opponent? Again, you should have Only one "Natural". It can have 1/2 chokes or 2 ramps/one extended ramp (if highground). -where can unbuildable terrain be placed? Where they would not obstruct base-building. (No giant patches of rocks/ruins/cracked dirt in mains/naturals please.)
You can put unbuildable terrain on certain chokes to prevent walling off.
Again, keep in mind that exceptions can be permitted as long as they are not ludicrous, since rules could be too restrictive at times.
On MaY 09 2010 09:34 majesty.k)seRapH wrote:
how would you judge? how would you tell if its Actually imbalanced without 30 games from korean semipros?
I'm hoping that people volunteer to help judge, of course.
|
So if I post a open field with random doodads and mineral fields, I win for zergs? O_O!!!!
-goes to map editor-
|
On May 09 2010 09:37 MageKirby wrote:
So if I post a open field with random doodads and mineral fields, I win for zergs? O_O!!!!
-goes to map editor-
By any chance did you make this map?
|
Ride of the Valkyries has two 64 mineral patches making a wall from the natural to a mineral only. Could you have 128 mineral patches like that?
Many of El nino's expansions have like 1500, 1250, 1000, 750, 500,250, 50 mineral amounts on them or something, is that valid?
By protected natural, I mean a natural that is essentially inside the main's region.
Is there a requirement to have more than 3 total mineral/gas patches per player?
My naturals having 1/2 chokes, you mean 1 or 2 narrow entrances leading to opponent, right? (ie. not counting main->natural one)
I'm asking if you can have a gas-only expansion in the main's region or natural's region.
Is there a minimum or maximum distance from main building to main->natural choke? what about natural entrance to natural's building?
|
Non-zero mineral blocks have been deprecated, but you can use them. It is likely that few people will actually mine them out, though.
Nonstandard mineral blocks are okay, as long as the TOTAL mineral count is approximately equal to the amount of minerals you would get from a normal expansion. You cannot, however, just stack 10 150 mineral chunks and call it a day as that makes it like a money map.
"Protected natural" as in Katrina's natural?
It MAY be a good idea to have at least 6 gas expansions in total.
Gas-only expansions should be used sparingly. A gas-only inside the main substantially favors zerg and falls under the same kind of category as putting a spider mine in your natural or covering your natural in creep. Of course, if you can adequately justify a strategic use other than "zomg extra hatch and gas lolz", go for it.
One of the longer natural chokes that you might find is on Andromeda. Try not to make it substantially longer than that. Main-nat distance should be reasonable enough so that you can send your 7th probe to make a pylon at the nat to forge expand.
|
Heheheheheh, EXCELLENT! I make these things while trying to make normal maps.
|
I look forward to playingon some of these maps 
|
17077 Posts
On what criteria will the maps be judged? Are we trying to imbalance a certain race or only certain match ups? Is there going to be a rubric?
|
Sounds like fun, but why should someone wait weeks for a chance at winning when they can get one today (by a preorder if not by some quicker TL means).
Also, interest in these things wanes faster than you'd expect.
You really should shorten the contest duration and declare a date by which the winner will be announced, lest you repeat Husky's folly.
|
Would I win the key if I make a map you cannot even beat a computer on?
|
doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1353 Posts
why not just make a 2 player maps with main mineral lines back to back but long walk path between bases. That way terran will win as soon as they get a marine and put it in their min line shooting at yoru workers.
Edit: or protoss canon rush their own min line, not sure which tactic would win head to head (one would think canons), but either way that tactic will consistently win :D
|
On May 09 2010 16:02 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
why not just make a 2 player maps with main mineral lines back to back but long walk path between bases. That way terran will win as soon as they get a marine and put it in their min line shooting at yoru workers.
Edit: or protoss canon rush their own min line, not sure which tactic would win head to head (one would think canons), but either way that tactic will consistently win :D
way ahead of you 
![[image loading]](http://i41.tinypic.com/o50q51.jpg)
This map conforms to all the guidelines
ie:
- Travel distance from any given opposite side is exactly 60 seconds
- 3 Base layout
- Islands have 8 mineral chunk
- Terrans can wall
Imbalances:
- Obvious tank favor, including huge middle high wall imba where you can pretty much control all the main base's income
- Positional imbalance, depending where you and your opponent spawn, you could either get a more favorable 3rd/4th with either min/gas or double gas/no min
- Narrow passages every which way you go
- Totally fucks protoss over in tvp and zvp
- Close positions make it easy for overlord to scout race/position early on
Download:
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/maplist.php?wauthor=razorsuKe
|
On May 09 2010 17:03 razorsuKe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2010 16:02 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
why not just make a 2 player maps with main mineral lines back to back but long walk path between bases. That way terran will win as soon as they get a marine and put it in their min line shooting at yoru workers.
Edit: or protoss canon rush their own min line, not sure which tactic would win head to head (one would think canons), but either way that tactic will consistently win :D way ahead of you + Show Spoiler +This map conforms to all the guidelines ie: - Travel distance from any given opposite side is exactly 60 seconds - 3 Base layout - Islands have 8 mineral chunk - Terrans can wall Imbalances: - Obvious tank favor, including huge middle high wall imba where you can pretty much control all the main base's income - Positional imbalance, depending where you and your opponent spawn, you could either get a more favorable 3rd/4th with either min/gas or double gas/no min - Narrow passages every which way you go - Totally fucks protoss over in tvp and zvp - Close positions make it easy for overlord to scout race/position early on
I like it! xD
|
I dunno, your example is more of an example of a bad map rather than an "imbalanced" map. This is a weird competition in how it's judged. The better mapper or the better player, the guy who understands balance best, might not win even if he uses all of his knowledge to create an imbalanced map, because you might decide the map that was made aimlessly happens to be more imbalanced. That being said, I'll give it a shot. bwm had a competition like this a long time ago, results were interesting: http://www.panschk.de/mappage/competition/showcomp.php?compid=14
|
Um.how do i make a Large image of a map if i make one?
|
On May 09 2010 17:16 Nightmarjoo wrote:I dunno, your example is more of an example of a bad map rather than an "imbalanced" map. This is a weird competition in how it's judged. The better mapper or the better player, the guy who understands balance best, might not win even if he uses all of his knowledge to create an imbalanced map, because you might decide the map that was made aimlessly happens to be more imbalanced. That being said, I'll give it a shot. bwm had a competition like this a long time ago, results were interesting: http://www.panschk.de/mappage/competition/showcomp.php?compid=14
well if the design passes the guidelines and everything is acceptable, then I can go out of my way to make it more visually appealing. 
|
scmdraft file -> save image, then edit the image in an image editor to resize it to something reasonable (such as 768x768 pixels (for a 128x128 map)) and save as a .jpg.
On May 09 2010 17:56 razorsuKe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2010 17:16 Nightmarjoo wrote:I dunno, your example is more of an example of a bad map rather than an "imbalanced" map. This is a weird competition in how it's judged. The better mapper or the better player, the guy who understands balance best, might not win even if he uses all of his knowledge to create an imbalanced map, because you might decide the map that was made aimlessly happens to be more imbalanced. That being said, I'll give it a shot. bwm had a competition like this a long time ago, results were interesting: http://www.panschk.de/mappage/competition/showcomp.php?compid=14 well if the design passes the guidelines and everything is acceptable, then I can go out of my way to make it more visually appealing.
I meant op's map.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
