EPTAlways listen to this while reading about Blizz vs KeSPA
[Update] KeSPA Speaks Out On Intellectual Property Rights…
| Forum Index > BW General |
|
MaYuu
Sweden516 Posts
Always listen to this while reading about Blizz vs KeSPA | ||
|
Breadwinner
United States17 Posts
| ||
|
MaYuu
Sweden516 Posts
ESL is good for Germans, and that's about it. Their coverage is almost always in German except for a final in CS 1.6 or Quake Live. | ||
|
Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
2. People saying Blizzard is being greedy, it's their product and all revenues generated from it are rightfully theirs. As someone stated before, can you use mickey mouse, or a windows logo in any advertisement without disney or microsofts clear permissions? No, you cannot they will sue you. Does kespa get permissions when they use and televise Blizzard's intellectual properties? No, they don't. They are stealing, and have been for a long time and Blizzard has let it go where BW is concerned. But if a software company doesn't defend it's copyrights they will go out of business. Look at how the music recording industry has suffered because of piracy. Blizzard could rightfully sue kespa for every advertising dollar they've ever made using Blizzard's intellectual property but they haven't because there not greedy. They could go after iccup, but they don't. They give out there beta to thousands completely free because there not greedy. They are going to allow people who design ums and maps to receive a small bit of the revenue there content creates on bnet 2.0 because they are not greedy. How many companies have release sequels that are trash and were rushed out because they are greedy? Not Blizzard. 3. People making all this fuss about "it's on tv". How many of you live in Korea and even get to see this on TV? How many of you just watch it in VOD form like every other esports and tournament organization around the world? 4. MLG has full time pro teams, gets tv coverage on espn and formerly usa network. Has millions of viewers to it's events, over 10000 people show up to it's events in person (and pay to get in!) and they are already supporting the beta on gamebattles. Artosis had great things to say about them in his last weekly. I believe that MLG will support SC2 long term because it will be profitable to as long as there are enough fans, and the release of expansions will give SC2 longevity. MLG has existed for almost a decade with 0 scandals! When they wanted they're top halo team to not compete in other halo tournaments they gave them a 1 million dollar contract to facilitate it. Kespa on the other hand has used the looming threat of pulling a gamers license to do this. MLG > KESPA 5. Do you not see how evil kespa really is? The implications in the gambling scandal are that their officials have been involved, kespa has been aware of this for YEARS and actually sat down with the ILLEGAL gambling companies in secret meetings to see if they could co-exist. Kespa has been all about secrecy on a lot of controversy because they have a lot to hide. They use pro licenses to maintain a monopoly over esports in korea, which in my opinion would be huge there, with or without them because of the enormous fan base. They have shown their own incompetence several times in the past. They are for profit and yet a governmental organization of south korea. If your saying that nothing else similar exists in south korea it's probably because kespa won't allow it to and actively seeks out and destroys competition in their business by exerting the power of their government sanctioned monopoly. Kespa attempted to sell the broadcasting rights for starcraft in 2007, but it's not their intellectual property, it's blizzard's. I'd be pissed too! Kespa is a parasitic organization, they use the players, and they use intellectual property that doesn't belong to them for profit meanwhile claiming all the credit for the existence of esports. 6. We can argue all day about the points of this but at the end of the day kespa looses. They were fools for challenging Blizzard in the first place. Blizzard is going to control the fate of SC2 not kespa. Blizzard will profit, rightfully so, from the use of sc2 for advertising and kespa will go broke. The release of Sc2 will deplete BW's fan base more and more as time goes on. None of us really know what the future of Starcraft or esports is, but kespa has sealed their own fate. The only way for our questions and concerns to be addressed is time. We'll all just have to wait and see. One thing to be sure, the amount of fans is the #1 determining factor in the future of esports and starcraft, not kespa and not blizzard. | ||
|
xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
Personally I don't want KeSPA to run Starcraft 2 in Korea. They do alright with BW but theres too much controversy. I'd rather not see them toy around with Starcraft 2 risking it's death over trivial matters. If they want to keep hosting BW thats quite alright with me, but I don't see why it has to be them for Starcraft 2. Sponsors will pay to advertise their companies, and TV stations will air games that will give them ratings. If theres money to be made they wont say no. We may not have Flash and Jaedong for Starcraft 2 in Korea but theres no reason that proleague can't happen without KeSPA. Personal feelings set aside, whatever happens happens, and as long as I get to watch the TSL3 and enjoy English commentaries of some sick Starcraft 2 games, I could really care less who organized the tournaments. | ||
|
iounas
409 Posts
On May 04 2010 23:30 imperator-xy wrote: i was talking about esport in general in europe, not only sc. wc3 was a pretty big deal. all big teams the koreans played in were from europe and there were/are leagues and tournaments that happened/happen regularly, like intel extreme masters (a price money of llike 500 000$ total, wc3 was part of it before wow but sc2 will become part of it for sure) or ESWC. but the most important part is the ESL i think. its building leagues all over europe. the EPS is the highest league in every country and right now i think germany, france, benelux, scandinavia, the alps (austria and switzerland), italy, spain, greece and the balkans do have an EPS with offline finals twice a year. germany has the biggest with over 100 000€ price money (okay, there are like 5 different games) and offline matches for every playday, using locations for over 1 000 spectators. im sure they will get better sponsors so that the price money will rise and sc2 will become the number 1 in europe (cs is number 1 now). Ah, ok.. Im not familiar with wc3, wow or cs but I watched QL championships and intel extreme masters finals on ESL.. I like their 2 english ql commentators, one of them also casts cs and one wow.. In my opinion QL is the only esports worthy fps because of high skills needed to play, but cs also isnt that bad because of the teamwork.. | ||
|
jpak
United States5045 Posts
On May 04 2010 23:48 Reborn8u wrote: 1. People saying esports wouldn't exist without kespa, prove it. It's in fact easy to prove the opposite in how many other esports organizations and tournaments exist. 2. People saying Blizzard is being greedy, it's their product and all revenues generated from it are rightfully theirs. As someone stated before, can you use mickey mouse, or a windows logo in any advertisement without disney or microsofts clear permissions? No, you cannot they will sue you. Does kespa get permissions when they use and televise Blizzard's intellectual properties? No, they don't. They are stealing, and have been for a long time and Blizzard has let it go where BW is concerned. But if software company doesn't defend it's copyrights they will go out of business. 3. People making all this fuss about "it's on tv". How many of you live in Korea and even get to see this on TV? How many of you just watch it in VOD form like every other esports and tournament organization around the world? 4. MLG has full time pro teams, gets tv coverage on espn and formerly usa network. Has millions of viewers to it's events, over 10000 people show up to it's events in person (and pay to get in!) and they are already supporting the beta on gamebattles. Artosis had great things to say about them in his last weekly. MLG > KESPA 5. Do you not see how evil kespa really is? The implications in the gambling scandal are that their officials have been involved, kespa has been aware of this for YEARS and actually sat down with the ILLEGAL gambling companies in secret meetings to see if they could co-exist. Kespa has been all about secrecy on a lot of controversy because they have a lot to hide. They use pro licenses to maintain a monopoly over esports in korea, which in my opinion would be huge there, with or without them because of the enormous fan base. They have shown their own incompetence several times in the past. They are for profit and yet a governmental organization of south korea. If your saying that nothing else similar exists in south korea it's probably because kespa won't allow it to and actively seeks out and destroys competition in their business by exerting the power of their government sanctioned monopoly. Kespa attempted to sell the broadcasting rights for starcraft in 2007, but it's not their intellectual property, it's blizzard's. I'd be pissed too! Kespa is a parasitic organization, they use the players, and they use intellectual property that doesn't belong to them for profit meanwhile claiming all the credit for the existence of esports. 6. We can argue all day about the points of this but at the end of the day kespa looses. They were fools for challenging Blizzard in the first place. Blizzard is going to control the fate of SC2 not kespa. Blizzard will profit, rightfully so, from the use of sc2 for advertising and kespa will go broke. The release of Sc2 will deplete BW's fan base more and more as time goes on. None of us really know what the future of Starcraft or esports is, but kespa has sealed their own fate. The only way for our questions and concerns to be addressed is time. We'll all just have to wait and see. One thing to be sure, the amount of fans is the #1 determining factor in the future of esports and starcraft, not kespa and not blizzard. Poor Jaedong. He and all progamers will be out of jobs. But what can we do? change and adapt. | ||
|
iounas
409 Posts
On May 04 2010 23:37 MaYuu wrote: That EPS is bullshit, I've never heard of anything with that name and never seen any coverage of it in Sweden, at least not on any Swedish e-sports news site. ESL is good for Germans, and that's about it. Their coverage is almost always in German except for a final in CS 1.6 or Quake Live. I also dont know what is EPS but intel extreme masters was an event like WCG.. Yeah ESL had QL european qualifiers played in their studio in one day but its not really comparable to Koreans and how they do stuff. | ||
|
Mobius
Canada1268 Posts
| ||
|
Grettin
42381 Posts
On May 05 2010 00:02 Mobius wrote: I hate both KeSPA and blizzard...hard to chose a side here lol I love only blizzard's game but i hate em both. But if i have to choose, i choose KeSPA for e-sports sake. Blizzard maybe made the game, which opened the way to large E-Sport scene, but KeSPA did all the rest IMO. | ||
|
oo_xerox
United States852 Posts
| ||
|
Art_of_Kill
Zaire1232 Posts
it was clear from first day, that both companies didnt want to have the nash-equality, both wanted to maximize their profit there is no sence in a discussion, who is right or wrong here, both companies are right in the way they act, since they sinply act on their own interest its pretty interesting to see how this debate between this two companies will end :- | ||
|
NeonGenesis
Norway260 Posts
It's definitely understandable that they do not accept a year-by-year licence for operations, as Blizzard could basically dismantle them by snapping their fingers with that kind of power. The sporadic communication during the negotiation with KeSPA sounds very unprofessional and disrespectfull, and makes you wonder if Blizzard is underestimating how massive an undertaking it is to tackle the eSports scene, and if they're serious enough. Basically, Blizzard's goal is to usurp power from KeSPA. The question is, is this good or bad for the community? Blizzards track record is not very good. The poor management and structure of Blizzard leagues has forced the community to come up with their own constructs (wgtour, iccup etc.) where the community could police itself rather than leaving it to the hands-off, non-commiting beaurocracy of Blizzard. On the other hand, a properly managed stage from the dedicated people at Blizzard would not be susceptible to the corruption we are currently seeing on the Asian eSports scene. | ||
|
imperator-xy
Germany1366 Posts
On May 04 2010 23:37 MaYuu wrote: That EPS is bullshit, I've never heard of anything with that name and never seen any coverage of it in Sweden, at least not on any Swedish e-sports news site. ESL is good for Germans, and that's about it. Their coverage is almost always in German except for a final in CS 1.6 or Quake Live. i agree with you that EPS nordic was really shitty, no one cared about it but still ESL is the biggest esports organization in europe and they are the only ones who have leagues with regular play days and price money. qualifiying for IEM through EPS is also a nice thing. i didnt say they were perfect now, i just say its the best we have right now in europe and if their concept is improved i think this could be much better than esport in korea, as it would be international because of IEM plus having a lot of money involved already. On May 04 2010 23:59 iounas wrote: I also dont know what is EPS but intel extreme masters was an event like WCG.. Yeah ESL had QL european qualifiers played in their studio in one day but its not really comparable to Koreans and how they do stuff. QL isnt a great deal in europe, i even forgot it was on IEM tt my point was german EPS is most comparable to the koreans, although it still has to improve a lot. additionally ESL is expanding its leagues into other countries thus building up an international system that works like football with every country having a league to qualify for the Champions League (IEM for esports). | ||
|
Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
| ||
|
Garaman
United States556 Posts
blizzard gets paid royalties. and all this stuff about how they have a right to protect the image of their product... when has sponsors of sc1 been horrible for their image? i think of ever, i think of shinhan, i think of gom.. yeah.. this is just to push kespa out the door. the problem is with the 18+ rating on it, you have to wait for 10pm or whatever after to broadcast any of the shows, not to mention take out a large chunk of the progaming population due to age restriction. there is no way sc2 in korea would get good sponsorship, i mean the current OSLs and stuff are at prime time TV right? best time for TV sponsorship/commercials. | ||
|
bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
God knows when this crap with Kespa will be sorted out. Both sides are equally greedy, and the fans are losing out because of their differences. | ||
|
Garaman
United States556 Posts
On May 04 2010 23:48 Reborn8u wrote: 1. People saying esports wouldn't exist without kespa, prove it. It's in fact easy to prove the opposite in how many other esports organizations and tournaments exist. 2. People saying Blizzard is being greedy, it's their product and all revenues generated from it are rightfully theirs. As someone stated before, can you use mickey mouse, or a windows logo in any advertisement without disney or microsofts clear permissions? No, you cannot they will sue you. Does kespa get permissions when they use and televise Blizzard's intellectual properties? No, they don't. They are stealing, and have been for a long time and Blizzard has let it go where BW is concerned. But if software company doesn't defend it's copyrights they will go out of business. 3. People making all this fuss about "it's on tv". How many of you live in Korea and even get to see this on TV? How many of you just watch it in VOD form like every other esports and tournament organization around the world? 4. MLG has full time pro teams, gets tv coverage on espn and formerly usa network. Has millions of viewers to it's events, over 10000 people show up to it's events in person (and pay to get in!) and they are already supporting the beta on gamebattles. Artosis had great things to say about them in his last weekly. I believe that MLG will support SC2 long term because it will be profitable to as long as there are enough fans, and the release of expansions will give SC2 longevity. MLG has existed for almost a decade with 0 scandals! When they wanted they're top halo team to not compete in other halo tournaments they gave them a 1 million dollar contract to facilitate it. Kespa on the other hand has used the looming threat of pulling a gamers license to do this. MLG > KESPA 5. Do you not see how evil kespa really is? The implications in the gambling scandal are that their officials have been involved, kespa has been aware of this for YEARS and actually sat down with the ILLEGAL gambling companies in secret meetings to see if they could co-exist. Kespa has been all about secrecy on a lot of controversy because they have a lot to hide. They use pro licenses to maintain a monopoly over esports in korea, which in my opinion would be huge there, with or without them because of the enormous fan base. They have shown their own incompetence several times in the past. They are for profit and yet a governmental organization of south korea. If your saying that nothing else similar exists in south korea it's probably because kespa won't allow it to and actively seeks out and destroys competition in their business by exerting the power of their government sanctioned monopoly. Kespa attempted to sell the broadcasting rights for starcraft in 2007, but it's not their intellectual property, it's blizzard's. I'd be pissed too! Kespa is a parasitic organization, they use the players, and they use intellectual property that doesn't belong to them for profit meanwhile claiming all the credit for the existence of esports. 6. We can argue all day about the points of this but at the end of the day kespa looses. They were fools for challenging Blizzard in the first place. Blizzard is going to control the fate of SC2 not kespa. Blizzard will profit, rightfully so, from the use of sc2 for advertising and kespa will go broke. The release of Sc2 will deplete BW's fan base more and more as time goes on. None of us really know what the future of Starcraft or esports is, but kespa has sealed their own fate. The only way for our questions and concerns to be addressed is time. We'll all just have to wait and see. One thing to be sure, the amount of fans is the #1 determining factor in the future of esports and starcraft, not kespa and not blizzard. 1. without Kespa members, who would finance the pro gaming teams currently? I think 11 of the teams have membership on the board. what would happen if all these huge sponsors pulled out? i mean they are the biggest titans in korean's economy mostly. who will eat the cost of sponsoring all those pro gaming teams? defintely not blizzard. 2. Korea bought licencsing rights for SC:BW. are you kidding me? blizzard was stupid enough to sell it at a cheap price since they didn't see any future in e-sports and paid the price. your bias towards blizzard is amazing. 3. how many of us actually stay up and use the streams provided to us by Daum/etc? 4. how long do you really think an RTS game will last in the US market for marketability? history has shown us that mostly FPS, sports games like madden, and WOW are the cash cows of the US. C&C 3 died out quick. is War3 even alive? and Dota... that aint even a RTS, its more FPS than RTS. 5. i thought the ppl under investigation for the gambling scene was players throwing games, and their relationship with bookies. we know kespa is a money hungry bastard. but at least they continue to finance korean progaming. you know for damn sure blizzard is just as greedy and i can see them pulling out if they don't see immediate returns on investments. they are not in this for the long haul, they want someone else to do all the work and reap all the profits from it. why else would they eliminate LAN? they must go through blizzards bnet to play ne games. I cant wait to see China hack SC2, you know its coming. they will defintely add a lan feature to the game and pirate the shit out of it. they never much cared for copy right laws, but this will be the first time i full support them in this cheating endevor. 6. in the end, e-sports loses. the fans loses. the players loses. Kespa is mostly multi million/billion dollar industries who don't necessarily need e-sports for their revenue. its just a nice piece of change, but the fact of the matter is, the only ones who suffer are the fans, the players and the sport itself. blizzard and kespa dont need e-sports to succeed. kespa as an organization does, but not as sole members. i just dont see e-sports suceeding for an RTS outside of Asia and maybe europe. it will never succeed in the USA, where it can be shown on prime time television with multiple team sponsorships and a regular league instead of the bullshit once a year WCG or blizzcon. whatever though, i hope they settle their differences. korean scene is just so much more epic than the foreigner counterparts. | ||
|
MaYuu
Sweden516 Posts
On May 04 2010 23:48 Reborn8u wrote: 4. MLG has full time pro teams, gets tv coverage on espn and formerly usa network. Has millions of viewers to it's events, over 10000 people show up to it's events in person (and pay to get in!) and they are already supporting the beta on gamebattles. Artosis had great things to say about them in his last weekly. I believe that MLG will support SC2 long term because it will be profitable to as long as there are enough fans, and the release of expansions will give SC2 longevity. MLG has existed for almost a decade with 0 scandals! When they wanted they're top halo team to not compete in other halo tournaments they gave them a 1 million dollar contract to facilitate it. Kespa on the other hand has used the looming threat of pulling a gamers license to do this. MLG > KESPA MLG is console shit I belive? That's not e-sports that's loller-sports ;< | ||
|
Shizuru~
Malaysia1676 Posts
its not going to be easy to set up the culture of e-sport like they did in korea, but to say that if korea went down, and everything will go to shits is just simply not true, if kespa wants to throw the e-sports capital of the world back into the stone age, go ahead and find another game u can capitalise as E-Sports kespa, good luck with that. and i don get y everone seems to think that if blizz back off from korea it would be like the sky is falling down? sure they lose a large portion of market share in the world for their product... but is it the end for blizzard? but if blizzard shuts down kespa from SC2, would it be the end for kespa? the true victim of this case is not us, but imo the korean kids who wants to play SC2 just to find out its rated Adults Only for some pathetic excuse... | ||
| ||
