EPTI just summarized it in one sentence.
[Update] KeSPA Speaks Out On Intellectual Property Rights…
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jpak
United States5045 Posts
I just summarized it in one sentence. | ||
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dranjam
Poland198 Posts
On May 05 2010 03:36 Lokian wrote:We all know, Blizzard is a high-morale type of game company. I don't mean to start flaming, but you are delusional. Amnesty International, Unicef, Greenpeace and Wikimedia Foundation are high-morale type of "companies", Blizzard is a company with making profit as it's only objective. Making good games and player satisfaction is a mean to that end, not a purpose. | ||
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theramstoss
Canada242 Posts
On May 05 2010 03:50 dranjam wrote: I don't mean to start flaming, but you are delusional. Amnesty International, Unicef, Greenpeace and Wikimedia Foundation are high-morale type of "companies", Blizzard is a company with making profit as it's only objective. Making good games and player satisfaction is a mean to that end, not a purpose. it's => its, mean => means | ||
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iounas
409 Posts
On May 05 2010 02:58 jpak wrote: Basically says Blizzard want control of the progaming teams. Man.. They are insane.. Just because they made the game doesnt mean they can control everything.. Whats next? Ask royalties from TL because of all the discussion about their games here and all the vods and TL tournaments? Also day9 must pay x amount of $ for every show he makes. Or say that all the banning of people and thread closing here puts a bad image on them as makers of these games.. | ||
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Oedi
Canada265 Posts
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
Thats great, but you understand the misinformation that is spread but i 1 line synopsis - especially with an issue as volatile as this? | ||
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Dr_Strange
United States80 Posts
On May 05 2010 03:13 blazinggpassion wrote: You're being so close minded. If what Kespa said here is true, then Blizzard is being fat greedy pigs trying to basically OWN kespa. What Kespa said were pretty concrete claims, so I doubt they were lying. Blizzard was always like that. They even attempted to make money from DotA. On May 04 2010 22:49 FortuneSyn wrote: Don't get me wrong, i hate kespa. Muscling GOMTV out of the scene is the most despicable form of beating competition and a perfect example of abusing their e-sports monopoly. Their interests are NOT the players or fans, so don't buy their puppy face press appearance. What is it that KeSPA did wrong? Do you hate the NFL for doing it to the XFL? Even the WWF leagues did the same thing. UFC is the same way. If you are in the UFC, you cant go and fight for another league. There is nothing wrong with that. People that dislike KeSPA don't realize how good KeSPA is. | ||
rotinegg
United States1719 Posts
From Blizzard's terms of negotiation there is another part that baffles me. It has been proven that Blizzard has asked for rights to the individual players that are signed under their sponsors. On the terms of negotiations provided by Blizzard since 2007, there is a clause that says 'Through any competition Blizzard withholds the right to sign any player.' Blizzard is blatantly disregarding the rights of corporations that are sponsoring the players. Ever since the inception of progaming teams in 1999 and the spread of corporate sponsors, Kespa has withheld all copyrights associated with content generated by players and their signing rights. In an age where corporations are already signing players with paid salaries and additive incentives, Blizzard's demand to hand over all rights to the players has generated much criticism that it is unreasonable and excessive. If Blizzard's terms are met, then all 11 progaming teams excluding Airforce ACE must have their players sign an additional contract with Blizzard. The players will continue to receive salaries from their sponsors, but once Blizzard decides that it needs a specific player, the player will be bound to Blizzard's terms and discontinue playing for its main sponsor [T/N: I am 90% sure the article implies that the sponsor will have to continue paying the player even if the player has to miss important competitions and events due to Blizzard's scheduling]. This can be construed as a blatant disregard for the rights of the corporate sponsors that run these progaming teams.. | ||
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Ryhn
United States509 Posts
On May 05 2010 04:41 rotinegg wrote: From Blizzard's terms of negotiation there is another part that baffles me. It has been proven that Blizzard has asked for rights to the individual players that are signed under their sponsors. On the terms of negotiations provided by Blizzard since 2007, there is a clause that says 'Through any competition Blizzard withholds the right to sign any player.' Blizzard is blatantly disregarding the rights of corporations that are sponsoring the players. Ever since the inception of progaming teams in 1999 and the spread of corporate sponsors, Kespa has withheld all copyrights associated with content generated by players and their signing rights. In an age where corporations are already signing players with paid salaries and additive incentives, Blizzard's demand to hand over all rights to the players has generated much criticism that it is unreasonable and excessive. If Blizzard's terms are met, then all 11 progaming teams excluding Airforce ACE must have their players sign an additional contract with Blizzard. The players will continue to receive salaries from their sponsors, but once Blizzard decides that it needs a specific player, the player will be bound to Blizzard's terms and discontinue playing for its main sponsor [T/N: I am 90% sure the article implies that the sponsor will have to continue paying the player even if the player has to miss important competitions and events due to Blizzard's scheduling]. This can be construed as a blatant disregard for the rights of the corporate sponsors that run these progaming teams.. Thanks for the translation! I may be in the minority, but I hope KeSPA wins this fight. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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Eeevil
Netherlands359 Posts
I know SC2 is hailed as this big thing in world wide e-sports, but if companies already try to fill their pockets when no real money has been made yet, there is little chance that SC2 will have a long life as an E-sport. It's been said before. But KESPA did not create SC as an E-sport in Korea. The fans and players did, by creating a community based on the game, the love of playing the game and the respect for people who are skilled at playing the game. This was expanded when broadcasting stations started televising the matches played at the big tournaments we now know as the OSL and MSL. It was created from the bottom-up. Only then did the money flow in. I cannot see a top-down model of a SC2 e-sports scene happening. Blizzard is being retarded if they want the level of control claimed by KESPA as it will kill SC2 e-sports before it has the room and time to flourish. I mean will there be a SC2 based TSL3 when Blizzard wants a a high level of control over various aspects of the tournament and wants to be thrown some cash to boot ? And for entitrely unrelated reasons: + Show Spoiler + Fuck KESPA | ||
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rotinegg
United States1719 Posts
On May 05 2010 04:49 Ryhn wrote: Thanks for the translation! I may be in the minority, but I hope KeSPA wins this fight. I don't think you are in the minority, majority of netizens on fomos are taking sides with kespa and you know how much korean netizens hate kespa. Funny thing is alot of their comments start with phrases like "Despite the shit jobs that kespa has pulled in the past..." or "Even though their incompetencies rival a group run by middle schoolers..." | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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Yurebis
United States1452 Posts
On May 05 2010 03:50 dranjam wrote: I don't mean to start flaming, but you are delusional. Amnesty International, Unicef, Greenpeace and Wikimedia Foundation are high-morale type of "companies", Blizzard is a company with making profit as it's only objective. Making good games and player satisfaction is a mean to that end, not a purpose. And how do they make a profit if not by supplying the market demand with good games? I don't understand people's arguments that w\o kespa, there would be no esports. I wasn't around when kespa started but I cannot logically understand why is a regulatory body required for tournaments and leagues to take place. This comes firstly from my ignorance of what kespa does actually, is it just allocating licenses and regulating tournaments and rankings? And it's government mandated, right? If it is, how is it that the issuance of licenses (meaning, restricting invalidated players from playing), regulations (more restrictions on the type of play allowed) such a dire and needed service that couldn't have been performed by GOM for example? Aren't thousands of sports associations elsewhere in the world privately able to do all that without government control? Why would it be any different in the land of Starcraft? I don't see why a good player would need a license to be recognized as a good player. Or for players to say GG every match. If a tournament organizer can't do it, and feels that it needs a third party to do that job for him then he can hire his own KeSPA to do it for him. Then, if other organizers consistently feel the same way, they can hire the same third party, and maybe if it's so good at its job, it will be recognized as the place-to-go for esports rules and guidelines. A regulatory, non-coercive body can arise naturally, and people will recognize it as "needed" indeed. ... more simply put, the business model of esports and maybe any sport for that matter, is not Kespa funds everything -> players. Kespa draws their funds from the fans, just like the sponsors and teams. The companies that have teams or sponsor the tournaments fund it out of the (you could say proven) expectation that fans watch the games and buy more products from the sponsors. the model ultimately is... fans -> sponsors -> players As long as the fans keep demanding games, even if KeSPA were to fall, another company would "fill the gap", like others said. Because there's a profit opportunity. Because "greed" and capitalism aren't evil monsters like some were made to believe... profit means the business model is sustainable and growing. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. If you don't like other people's or organizations profit, then do it yourself and compete with them, undercut them, outperform them! Oh wait, can't do that with KeSPA in korea, right. Because they're thuuuugs! edit: reason why KeSPA blows is because other organizations aren't allowed to compete, obviously.. so they can be as inefficient as they want at delivering what the fans want, and still stay afloat... | ||
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Caos2
United States1728 Posts
On May 05 2010 04:41 rotinegg wrote: From Blizzard's terms of negotiation there is another part that baffles me. It has been proven that Blizzard has asked for rights to the individual players that are signed under their sponsors. On the terms of negotiations provided by Blizzard since 2007, there is a clause that says 'Through any competition Blizzard withholds the right to sign any player.' Blizzard is blatantly disregarding the rights of corporations that are sponsoring the players. Ever since the inception of progaming teams in 1999 and the spread of corporate sponsors, Kespa has withheld all copyrights associated with content generated by players and their signing rights. In an age where corporations are already signing players with paid salaries and additive incentives, Blizzard's demand to hand over all rights to the players has generated much criticism that it is unreasonable and excessive. If Blizzard's terms are met, then all 11 progaming teams excluding Airforce ACE must have their players sign an additional contract with Blizzard. The players will continue to receive salaries from their sponsors, but once Blizzard decides that it needs a specific player, the player will be bound to Blizzard's terms and discontinue playing for its main sponsor [T/N: I am 90% sure the article implies that the sponsor will have to continue paying the player even if the player has to miss important competitions and events due to Blizzard's scheduling]. This can be construed as a blatant disregard for the rights of the corporate sponsors that run these progaming teams.. It's almost like FIFA: "Hey, we have the World Cup so lend us all your expensive players and you'll get nothing out of it, maybe a bill if the player gets injured." and "There's going to be an exhibition match, lend us your players despite if you have a game or not. Oh, your lost because your main player was sitting on the bench all game? Too bad.". While the former is common to all teams, the second part I am not so sure but it happens all the time in Brazil. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On May 05 2010 04:41 rotinegg wrote: From Blizzard's terms of negotiation there is another part that baffles me. It has been proven that Blizzard has asked for rights to the individual players that are signed under their sponsors. On the terms of negotiations provided by Blizzard since 2007, there is a clause that says 'Through any competition Blizzard withholds the right to sign any player.' Blizzard is blatantly disregarding the rights of corporations that are sponsoring the players. Ever since the inception of progaming teams in 1999 and the spread of corporate sponsors, Kespa has withheld all copyrights associated with content generated by players and their signing rights. In an age where corporations are already signing players with paid salaries and additive incentives, Blizzard's demand to hand over all rights to the players has generated much criticism that it is unreasonable and excessive. If Blizzard's terms are met, then all 11 progaming teams excluding Airforce ACE must have their players sign an additional contract with Blizzard. The players will continue to receive salaries from their sponsors, but once Blizzard decides that it needs a specific player, the player will be bound to Blizzard's terms and discontinue playing for its main sponsor [T/N: I am 90% sure the article implies that the sponsor will have to continue paying the player even if the player has to miss important competitions and events due to Blizzard's scheduling]. ]This can be construed as a blatant disregard for the rights of the corporate sponsors that run these progaming teams.. Lol what the fuck? They call this a negotiation? Hahaha, good joke. Like others have said, I can't believe I am saying this, but gl KESPA. | ||
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
but the korean esports scene has been going on without blizzard's help or interference sure kespa fucked up alot but it doesnt give blizzard a reason to interfere and tell kespa to give them their profits | ||
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Yurebis
United States1452 Posts
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Longshank
1648 Posts
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On May 05 2010 05:16 Yurebis wrote: I don't think blizzard is dumb enough to make such a blatantly broken contract that no sane sponsor would sign... but if those ain't lies, I'm still not siding with KeSPA, never ever. Blizzard can go broke and "forbid" anyone from ever playing Starcraft 2, it would still be their decision to make since they made the game. Would be pretty dumb (wasted profit potential), but I'd respect it. (IP rights aside) I'm pretty sure their angle is to force KeSPA to either be completely obligated to Blizzard or to just melt away altogether, not make a reasonable partnership. This is the same KeSPA who tried to sell the right to broadcast a product they didn't own, the same KeSPA who muscled out live English commentators on Korean tournaments (GOMTV). That puts Blizzard in the right in my book, but opinions will always differ. If they can open up e-sports to the world anywhere near as well as it was opened up to Korea by KeSPA, it will be a million times better, even if the production quality or quantity is less. Korea isn't exactly leading the way in SC2 now or anytime soon. Would you really be excited watching inferior games just because they were tied to legendary BW names? I'd much prefer watching the best in the world compete against the best in the world rather than the best in the world outside of KeSPA compete against the best in the world outside of KeSPA. | ||
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