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On April 28 2010 02:31 NonFactor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 02:20 AyJay wrote:What incentive to players have to play 12 hours a day, 7 days a week to master the game if in 2 years everyone will move on to something else? What do you mean? SC:BW was there for 11 years and I'm pretty sure it will stick around for even more o.O This is the biggest chance BW has of dying. Quite clearly it already happened on foreign scene. Yes there are still some players but competition is dead, all top players moved along. Now what will happen in Korea will be decided entirely by some type of politics, imo.
Not just. What will happen in korea (assuming sc2 does become an e-sport) is due to the public's interest in SC1. At the very least, sc1 will stick around for at least a year after. Some players have stated they have no interest in tansitioning, and when sc1 stops, they will retire for good.
If Blizzard remains hardheaded and sc2 does not, sc1 will be around for a while.
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"Andrei Mendierej, the amateur filmmaker from Smolensk is dead.
This is the second movie - the first one was deleted and its author Andrei Mendierej, who shot the film, is now dead.
He was stabbed near Kijow, and transported in critical condition to the hospital in Kijow.
There three unidentified individuals unplugged him from life support system and stabbed him three more times.
Andrei was pronounced dead that afternoon.
Russian government claims it was a coincidence. "
O_O
http://ohlundonline.blogspot.com/2010/04/man-who-filmed-shots-fired-at-polish.html
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On April 28 2010 00:10 olof wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2010 23:56 crappen wrote:
Somehow I kind of feel a distance to play starcraft reading this. Just feels wrong that blizzard owns my playing and creativity in game. Players makes a good game, blizzard simply has provided tools to do so, like the adobe photoshop example, is adobe needing license and money if someone was to launch a competition in similar fascion? I agree. No adobe doesn't require money for anything created using their programs, unless your counting the onetime cost of buying the program. Being an artstudent I have never heard of adobe trying to claim money from businesses making photoshoptutorials or anything like that (which is a decent market). One could argue that Photoshop is sold for a high price, but compared to other programs used in production I'd say not. Keeping in mind that StarCraft 2 will be sold in three separate episodes I really can't see any reason for demanding royalties. It's free advertisement.
The main argument is that photoshop contains very little copyrightable art, animations or sound effects, and a tutorial is made for educational purposes which falls under the "fair use" exemption.
A game broadcast contains MUCH more copyrightable content (artwork, animations, sound effects, the whole lot). In addition, there is no "fair use" exemption for broadcasting video game leagues.
If you record a movie of the screen in the cinema, you are infringing copyright too. I think the situation here is similar.
It seems that, unfortunately, Blizzard is within its rights to ask royalties for broadcasts made of its games. A sign that we need to make more free culture video games or abolish copyright.
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Thing is that, as far as i know, Blizzard sold those rights for sc1 a long time ago.
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korean programming is... done
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CA10830 Posts
On April 27 2010 17:06 Limenade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2010 16:28 Limenade wrote:oh yea btw heres the list of players being accused of rigging matches in korea to make money, just further corrupting e-sports in korea and kespa's name so who cares Myung Soo (Yarnc), Chan Soo (Luxury), Sang Ho (SangHo), Jung Woo (EffOrt), Yong Hwa (Movie), Jae Yoon (sAviOr), Taek Yong (Bisu), Byong Goo (Stork), Jae Wook (BeSt), il Jang (hero), Myung Hoon (fantasy), Heui Seung (UpMaGiC), Jae Dong (Jaedong), Sang Moon (Leta), Jong Seo (Justin), Chang Hee (go.go) Source: http://www.gamepron.com/news/2010/04/12/starcraft-cheating-scandal-rocks-korea/ That has next to nothing to do with the topic at hand, why would you bring it up? Because it also could be a major reasoning behind why Kespa has no leverage anymore against blizzard since there is a good chance many of the pro gamers could even go to jail if these accusations against them turn out to be true. Thus making it even more of a reason behind why blizzard should not associate with Kespa and should look else where to find a new partner in E-Sports one that was not related to multi million dollar gambling related scandals that involved Blizzard's product.
i like how you sourced an article that sourced us as the source.
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CA10830 Posts
is kespa making profit off of this game? sure, probably.
are they making a LARGE profit? (some users have made up ridiculous numbers, saying that they've made billions of dollars off of this...) the answer is probably not.
kespa is simply an association of a number of high ranking officials from the various chaebols/corporations that sponsor the pro teams. they deserve to be part of the executive board because the companies they represent pay the gamer's salaries, housing, food, uniforms, etc. this is no small amount, mind you. of course, these companies aren't doing it out of their own good will or whatever. they know it's good advertisement and exposure to males in the 10s-30s. but the fact remains that they definitely have invested a lot of money into this whole esports thing.
OGN and MBCgame don't make a lot of money either. i believe MBCgame almost went bankrupt a few years back and OGN has had its fair share of financial problems too.
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why isn't one cash cow enough for blizzard 
they made 2 mil on selling a virtual pony that an undergrad could make in maya/blender in a few days for god sakes, why do they feel the need to demand royalties where no other companies [to my knowledge mind you] have done before
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On April 28 2010 04:04 j4s wrote:
an undergrad could make in maya/blender in a few days for god sakes
A few days? it has a very minimal texture, and re-uses the same rig as the other mounts. It's at best 4 hours of work for modeling and texturing the armor piece on the head.
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On April 28 2010 04:04 j4s wrote:why isn't one cash cow enough for blizzard they made 2 mil on selling a virtual pony that an undergrad could make in maya/blender in a few days for god sakes, why do they feel the need to demand royalties where no other companies [to my knowledge mind you] have done before
Because there are many tools people to buy it 
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United States47024 Posts
On April 28 2010 01:50 olof wrote:
You don't think a professional player that works as a gamer uses StarCraft as a 'tool' for his creativity?
How about a commentator then?
As has been stated by others, when you create something in Photoshop, the final product is entirely divorced from any copyrighted material that Adobe has any claim to. However, a commentator or player requires use of the various assets in the Starcraft game that DO belong to Blizzard to display his creativity.
The better analogy would be that you're using Photoshop, but there's also some piece of art that belong's to Adobe that you want to put into your work. You'd still need permission (and potentially pay a fee) for that.
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blizzard are right because they got the copyright for the game but think 2 sec ok ?
in the law they are also right but that dont mean what they are doing is right for the fans and the players , and of course the current pro gamer .
they are the first game company who would ask for that much royalty , tournament fee , in fact they want to control everything and get any numbers of money they want for anything .
they ask for :
Blizzard, in the 7th article, states that conversations within the game, to even user's characters profiles are the properties of Blizzard and without the consent of Blizzard, no one is allowed to create any secondary creation using them
The 7th article 1st term states that, excluding Blizzard's contest/tournament rules, or other fan policies, users are not allowed to use the game or the service to create any sort of product.
Blizzard also used the 14th article 4th term to state their opinion on publishing rights that they were discussing with KeSPA. This term states that Blizzard owns the right to publish and use anything related to SC2 and only them .
Other than these terms, Blizzard also demands that users need to abandon any authorship of anything regarding the contents. If these terms are applied, then blizzard's permission will be needed to hold a contest/tournament or air the matches on TV regarding Starcraft 2
Blizzard has been using Starcraft 2 to state that whenever a gaming tournament is held, or whenever matches are aired on TV, not only do users need to gain permission from blizzard, but also need to pay royalties to Blizzard.
KeSPA needs to agree to Blizzard's term regarding Starcraft in addition to Starcraft 2
these term mean alot more that you think
if u were kespa or anyone else , you accept something like that ? hell no .
well if you keep support blizzard now you know what they ask .
if you support e-sport , you better support kespa because they are realy the less evil .
blizzard are only greedy bastard who want money , and plz dont say they care about the fans , they care about the money...
and they dont need more money if you think about wow and the sales they will get for sc2
( 3 games ) .
but no , they want more
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On April 28 2010 01:44 inlagdsil wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2010 22:07 Seijuro wrote:its quite funny to read all ur wannabe posts about this shit xDD u people dont understand a thing yet u talk as if u're working for kespa/blizzard and know everything, so pathetic :D all i have to say is: Kespa sucks - at least at the moment ^.^ Blizz Pwns ! Dont mess with blizzard, kespa, u fools xD how could kespa actually ever win such a fight? This post makes more sense when you read the paragraphs in reverse order.  I think that no matter what intrigues occur between blizzard and kespa, the huge demand from fans and interest from sponsors will ensure that SC2 will have a good professional scene.
it makes the most sense when you read all the lines in reverse order, not just the paragraphs
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On April 28 2010 04:20 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 01:50 olof wrote:
You don't think a professional player that works as a gamer uses StarCraft as a 'tool' for his creativity?
How about a commentator then? As has been stated by others, when you create something in Photoshop, the final product is entirely divorced from any copyrighted material that Adobe has any claim to. However, a commentator or player requires use of the various assets in the Starcraft game that DO belong to Blizzard to display his creativity. The better analogy would be that you're using Photoshop, but there's also some piece of art that belong's to Adobe that you want to put into your work. You'd still need permission (and potentially pay a fee) for that.
The point was being made about creating tutorials for photoshop and then selling them. So you are basically earning money of something adobe made. You are also showing the tool inside your tutorial. And yet, Adobe finds it useful and fruitful for people to sell tutorial that advertise their product. And not just Adobe. Ton of companies would find it ok to use their game in a professional league. Is Blizz going to ask for royalties from WCG or is this shit only for Koreans?
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On April 28 2010 01:50 olof wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 01:36 TrickyCat wrote:On April 27 2010 23:56 crappen wrote:
Somehow I kind of feel a distance to play starcraft reading this. Just feels wrong that blizzard owns my playing and creativity in game. Players makes a good game, blizzard simply has provided tools to do so, like the adobe photoshop example, is adobe needing license and money if someone was to launch a competition in similar fascion? That's an inaccurate comparison, and as I read through this thread, it melts my brain just thinking about it. You cannot compare Adobe Photoshop to Starcraft II. Adobe Photoshop is a tool in of itself, that happens to be software. It's a program designed to give it's user creative power to develop things not related to photoshop. You are constantly injecting non-photoshop related images and things into photoshop. Starcraft II is a video game. I understand the competitive nature to make a legitimate esport with it. But in the end, it's a video game that is designed to be played. You can do amazing things with photoshop; you can create illustrations, or touch up photographs. You're not creating or modifying something non-starcraft II, when you play Starcraft II. You are playing Starcraft II. You may devise clever tricks and tactics, but all these strategies end up in the same end result. You either win the game of Starcraft, or you lose. it is a game. Comparing Photoshop to Starcraft is akin to comparing a hammer to a chess board. they are not remotely the same, and have 2 different purposes completely. And as such, different rules apply to them. You don't think a professional player that works as a gamer uses StarCraft as a 'tool' for his creativity? How about a commentator then?
Creativity to win the game of starcraft. When you use a hammer to build a house. You didn't build a house to win the game of hammer. I covered this in my previous post, but you failed to read it, or comprehend accurately my point.
The Commentator's tool would be language to enrich the enjoyment of watching someone else playing and trying to win the game.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tool
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/game
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I dont think the royalties thing revolves around the legality of it, i dont think they're particularly pissed off at the fact the eula terms have been infringed. Asking for royalties is a wasy to push KeSPA around, its useful in that it determines the roles of each of the companies withing this relation that both KeSPA and Blizzard have to asume. This way Blizzard is just asserting its dominant possition.
I would agree that SC is not the tool but rather the medium but let me ask you something: Would you watch two AI computers battle it out on match point? Even if it was broadcasted with the same spectacular deviced it is done now?
The game is being watched to enjoy what these people, progamers, with their builds, skill, game sanse (tools) make out of Broodwar (medium).
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new replacement for KeSPA sounds golden.
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On April 28 2010 02:31 NonFactor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 02:20 AyJay wrote:What incentive to players have to play 12 hours a day, 7 days a week to master the game if in 2 years everyone will move on to something else? What do you mean? SC:BW was there for 11 years and I'm pretty sure it will stick around for even more o.O This is the biggest chance BW has of dying. Quite clearly it already happened on foreign scene. Yes there are still some players but competition is dead, all top players moved along. Now what will happen in Korea will be decided entirely by some type of politics, imo.
Hopefully starcraft still has some good years left to come. If not, I will look back with nostalgia on the best era of esport the world has and will ever see.
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On April 28 2010 07:04 hifriend wrote:Hopefully starcraft still has some good years left to come. If not, I will look back with nostalgia on the best era of esport the world has and will ever see.
You sound like Ebert.
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EPT
