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They made a game. People buy the game. Profit.
No need to get greedy and try to harm a competitive sport.
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On April 28 2010 18:46 bull0563 wrote:
They made a game. People buy the game. Profit.
No need to get greedy and try to harm a competitive sport.
u dont understand a single thing about all this
what would you do if u worked for blizz and kespa showing such disrespect towards you and trying to fuck with ya
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On April 28 2010 18:49 Seijuro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 18:46 bull0563 wrote:
They made a game. People buy the game. Profit.
No need to get greedy and try to harm a competitive sport. u dont understand a single thing about all this what would you do if u worked for blizz and kespa showing such disrespect towards you and trying to fuck with ya
It's the other way around, Blizzard showing arrogance and giving kespa no ground to work on. Blizzard sell games, but why stop there when they can get greedy and own the place. Yes they can do what they want, but not sure I want to invest my time in something that jeopardise the future of esport like this.
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On April 28 2010 21:53 crappen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 18:49 Seijuro wrote:On April 28 2010 18:46 bull0563 wrote:
They made a game. People buy the game. Profit.
No need to get greedy and try to harm a competitive sport. u dont understand a single thing about all this what would you do if u worked for blizz and kespa showing such disrespect towards you and trying to fuck with ya It's the other way around, Blizzard showing arrogance and giving kespa no ground to work on. Blizzard sell games, but why stop there when they can get greedy and own the place. Yes they can do what they want, but not sure I want to invest my time in something that jeopardise the future of esport like this.
BS, big big BS
sorry, but at least read through a few things and get information before u talk back..
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On April 28 2010 17:49 Seijuro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 16:43 RA wrote:
I'm with Blizzard on this. It's their creation, their rights and it's time for someone to show KeSPA where they really belong and what their using isn't theirs. thank god !!! finally someone who truly understands it : ) Blizz > kespa
go back to work on sc2 you two plz .
stupidity got no name .... wait
seriously try to read this topic from page 1 and say that again ok and most important , THINK .
we dont care if that blizz > kespa or kespa > blizz
people are talking about e-sport and pro gaming .
most people dont care if blizzard are right ( for the law and copyright ) , yes they create the game
and they can do anything they want , but no other game company ask for 5 % of what blizzard ask to kespa right now .
and yes they need to agree to the copyright FOR SC1 AND SC2
damn think ! yes blizzard make the best game , i realy love them most of the time but that dont mean they got the right ( moral right , for the fans and players )
to do what they are doing right now clearly show they just want more money .
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On April 28 2010 18:49 Seijuro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 18:46 bull0563 wrote:
They made a game. People buy the game. Profit.
No need to get greedy and try to harm a competitive sport. u dont understand a single thing about all this what would you do if u worked for blizz and kespa showing such disrespect towards you and trying to fuck with ya
On April 28 2010 21:59 Seijuro wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 21:53 crappen wrote:On April 28 2010 18:49 Seijuro wrote:On April 28 2010 18:46 bull0563 wrote:
They made a game. People buy the game. Profit.
No need to get greedy and try to harm a competitive sport. u dont understand a single thing about all this what would you do if u worked for blizz and kespa showing such disrespect towards you and trying to fuck with ya It's the other way around, Blizzard showing arrogance and giving kespa no ground to work on. Blizzard sell games, but why stop there when they can get greedy and own the place. Yes they can do what they want, but not sure I want to invest my time in something that jeopardise the future of esport like this. BS, big big BS sorry, but at least read through a few things and get information before u talk back..
Tell me more. Please, tell me more. I don't know what's true or not true in this thread so tell me more on the situation and provide sources.
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On April 28 2010 21:53 crappen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 18:49 Seijuro wrote:On April 28 2010 18:46 bull0563 wrote:
They made a game. People buy the game. Profit.
No need to get greedy and try to harm a competitive sport. u dont understand a single thing about all this what would you do if u worked for blizz and kespa showing such disrespect towards you and trying to fuck with ya It's the other way around, Blizzard showing arrogance and giving kespa no ground to work on.
They've been negotiating for 3 years and KESPA hasn't moved an inch.
KESPA just wants free profits off a new game and has no interest in sharing, and did their best to kill GOM.
Its also an awful association for the players. I would LOVE to see them collapse and a new partnership begin, for SC2 if there will be a scene for it.
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well LetMeShine we know some of the copyright blizzard want
and we also know they want kespa to agree for SC1 and SC2 .
and why people talk about disrespect towards blizzard from kespa now ? if you get any source show them or stop say that , they just cant agree to what blizzard want because that way too much.
blizzard are curently showing no respects for fans , players , and pro gamer right now , and i can give you many source and link .
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THAT WAS POSTED FROM SOMEONE IN THIS TOPIC , ALL THANK TO HIM >
Sounds like I was quite correct regarding Blizzard being unreasonable.
Here's a pretty good article that summarizes the terms that KeSPA and Blizzard was dealing with. It's quite old, but I imagine the situation hasn't changed at all.
http://www.thegames.co.kr/main/newsview.php?category=201&subcategory=1&id=142824
Key points
>>블리자드의 배틀넷 통합계정 약관 가운데 e스포츠와 관련해 쟁점이 되고 있는 조항은 제 7조와 14조의 내용들이다.
The articles in the Blizzard's BattleNet Terms of Agreement that has become a controversial point is the 7th and the 14th articles
>>블리자드는 7조에서 게임 내의 대화 내용, 유저의 캐릭터 프로필까지 블리자드의 소유로 규정하고 이와 관련해 블리자드의 동의 없이는 어떤 2차 저작물도 제작할 수 없다고 규정하고 있다.
Blizzard, in the 7th article, states that conversations within the game, to even user's characters profiles are the properties of Blizzard and without the consent of Blizzard, no one is allowed to create any secondary creation using them.
>>7조 1항에 따르면 유저들은 블리자드가 만든 경기 대회 규칙 또는 팬 정책으로 정한 경우를 제외하고는 게임 또는 서비스를 기반으로 한 어떠한 저작물도 만들지 못한다
The 7th article 1st term states that, excluding Blizzard's contest/tournament rules, or other fan policies, users are not allowed to use the game or the service to create any sort of product.
>>블리자드는 또 14조 4항을 통해 한국 e스포츠계와 협상해 온 중계권 문제도 정리해 놓았다. 이 조항에서 블리자드는 ‘방송, 전자 통신을 통한 일반 대중과의 통신, 전시, 수행, 컴퓨터 메모리로의 접속, 사용 및 이용할 권리’ 등을 자사가 소유한다고 밝히고 있다.
Blizzard also used the 14th article 4th term to state their opinion on publishing rights that they were discussing with KeSPA. This term states that Blizzard owns the right to publish and use anything related to SC2. (lazy translation near the end but it's 3:19 AM!)
>>이밖에 유저가 콘텐츠에 대해 가질 수 있는 모든 저작인격권을 포기할 것을 요구하고 있다. 이들 조항을 적용하면 ‘스타2’를 이용해 대회를 열거나 방송중계를 하는 것 모두 블리자드의 허락을 받지 않으면 불가능하게 된다.
Other than these terms, Blizzard also demands that users need to abandon any authorship of anything regarding the contents. If these terms are applied, then blizzard's permission will be needed to hold a contest/tournament or air the matches on TV regarding Starcraft 2
>>블리자드는 그동안 ‘스타2’를 이용해 게임대회를 개최하거나 방송을 중계할 경우 자사의 허락을 받아야 할 뿐만 아니라 저작권료를 지불해야 한다고 주장해 왔다.
Blizzard has been using Starcraft 2 to state that whenever a gaming tournament is held, or whenever matches are aired on TV, not only do users need to gain permission from blizzard, but also need to pay royalties to Blizzard
>>반면 한국 e스포츠계는 대회나 방송중계 등은 저작권의 범위에 속하지 않는다며 기존 ‘스타크래프트’와 같은 방식으로 대회나 중계를 할 수 있도록 해 줄 것을 요청해 왔다.
On the other hand, KeSPA stated that Tournaments and TV Airings do not fall under Blizzard's ownership and requested that Starcraft 2 could be held at a similar format as the original Starcraft.
>>최원제 한국e스포츠협회 사무총장은 “블리자드가 계속 지재권을 주장한다면 방송사나 e스포츠 구단들이 ‘스타2’에 등을 돌리게 될 것”이라며 “국내 e스포츠는 블리자드가 만든 것이 아니라 방송사와 구단들이 만들어 온 것이기 때문”이라고 지적했다.
Choi WonJae, the Secretary General (wtf) of KeSPA stated that "If Blizzard continues to push forth for ownership, then Broadcasting stations and ESports Leagues will turn their backs to SC2" and "Korea's Esports was not made by Blizzard but created by the Broadcasting Stations and the Leagues".
>>e스포츠업계 한 관계자는 “지금의 e스포츠 구단들은 이익을 남기기 위해서가 아니라 사회에 공헌하기 위해 구단을 운영하는 경우가 대부분”이라며 “만약 블리자드가 e스포츠를 이용해 ‘스타2’ 판매를 극대화 하려 한다면 구단들이 팀 운영을 포기하는 사태도 벌어질 수 있다”고 경계했다.
A personnel related to Esports stated that "Many of the Esports leagues do not operate to make a profit but to contribute to society" and that "If Blizzard uses ESports only to increase Starcraft 2 sales, there could be a tragedy where many supporting companies will give up on operating a team"
(As a note there has been many hints that KeSPA does not have that much money in a few of the articles I've read, so this seems to be accurate, especially since iirc SC games are free to go to)
>>-약관상에 언급된 저작권 부분과 ‘스타크래프트2’의 랜을 통한 멀티플레이 미지원을 조합하면 사실상 블리자드의 허락없이는 ‘스타크래프트2’를 통한 e스포츠대회를 개최할 수 없는 것인가.
▲블리자드코리아(이하 블리자드): 블리자드의 입장은 개발사로서 자사의 작품에 대한 저작권을 보호하겠다는 것이다. e스포츠에 대한 부분도 마찬가지다. ‘스타크래프트2’를 통해 토너먼트 대회를 진행하거나 방송 중계를 하기 위해서는 블리자드의 사전 동의나 협의가 필요하다. 동의나 협의 없이는 토너먼트 대회나 방송 중계를 할 수 없다.
(Basically a Korean Blizzard Representative states that Blizzard removed LAN to limit eSports so that they need to get Blizzard's permission.)
>>▲블리자드 : 블리자드는 모든 작품을 통합 계정을 통해 이용하도록 할 생각인 것은 맞다. ‘스타크래프트’ 역시 통합 계정을 이용해 배틀넷을 이용하게 될 것이다. 하지만 현재로서는 ‘스타크래프트’의 향후 계획에 대해 말할 수 있는 것이 없다. 기본 입장은 우리 작품에 대한 저작권을 보호하겠다는 것이다.
(Even Starcraft will be held over Blizzard's Battlenet (but, the employee then states that he cannot talk about the issue atm))
(AKA: KeSPA needs to agree to Blizzard's term regarding Starcraft in addition to Starcraft 2)
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So, any wonders why KeSPA is disagreeing with Blizzard? Blizzard attempting to centralize eSports is probably going to kill it faster than anything else ever -- just imagine playing Starcraft without ICCUP!
Simply put, I don't see any reasonable company agreeing to these terms, nor any Broadcasting Station. Good luck, Blizzard!
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Have been reading through most of the comments here and I find one of the arguments from the pro KeSPA people, quite amusing. As I was amazed by the fact that there's basically no one who have commented on these posts, I'd like to give my 2 cents about that.
The arguments I am talking about is the comparisons between starcraft and Photoshop/other design or coding software used, and regarding whether or not the companies using their software are paying royalties or not.
I think the answer here is quite simple. Compare the price between Starcraft and say, for example, Photoshop. Starcraft when that was new, probably had a price of about 40-60$, while Photoshop CS5 is going to cost around 1500$ (just checked quickly on adobe.com, so this is not a precise number).
Now, why is that? Well, from what I understand - a big reason for why these types of softwares are that expensive, is because you are free to use them to make money. Simple as that.
That should probably nullify that, in some way, silly argument of why Blizzard should not be able to expect some kind of compensation from companies who are profiting on a product that they do not own in that sense. I do not see how this should be different than the music industry for example.
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On April 28 2010 17:25 FieryBalrog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2010 17:56 nimoraca wrote:On April 27 2010 17:30 igotmyown wrote:On April 27 2010 16:48 maybenexttime wrote:On April 27 2010 16:20 xBillehx wrote:On April 27 2010 13:29 MuffinDude wrote:
Dude, blizzard just want profits while kespa at least has a slight intention of keeping progaming alive. Kespa is clearly the lesser of two evil here. I just don't like how blizzard is asking kespa for pretty much more money when kespa isn't making too much themselves either.
Blizzard made scbw, but it was the fans that made scbw like it is now, not blizzard. lol. Ok, Blizzard asking for more money? Blizzard hasn't gotten anything from Starcraft 2 and that's the one thing they were asking for. Royalties. Look it up. KeSPA isn't making too much themselves? They basically never lose money. They put no investment into the development of the game and broadcast it on TV collecting a ton of money from it. It was an investment, and the investment went gold. Any other group could have taken the risk and forked up some investment money to grow progaming in Korea. In fact, any other group can now. Starcraft 2 already has the hype it needs to surpass BW. KeSPA had nothing to do with that. Since KeSPA acted like a spoiled child, Blizzard will just find a new group who wants to make money by investing in their product and broadcasting. I'll agree with your last point. It's the fans that made scbw like it is now. The demand to watch these progamers is why it was kept alive. The fans also couldnt give two shits if it was KeSPA, SM Entertainment, or Blizzard running the tournaments, as long as they got some good games to watch. But besides that, Blizzard never wanted control over Proleagues of SC2 in Korea. They were completely willing to let KeSPA do their thing and even tried for three years to negotiate their rightfully entitled royalties, but KeSPA didn't wanna pay to broadcast someone else's new product. They basically wanted to make more money off of a new product, for free. I have no doubt other groups will pop up to help. Hell, even in the interview itself, Blizzard is going to find a new partner to run it, not themselves. KeSPA lost out on this one and I look forward to the future of Starcraft 2 because, sad as it is, broodwar is dieing. They wanted to be allowed to ask ANY amount of money from KeSPA (or any tournament organizer for that matter) at any time afaik. That's the most ridiculous condition I've ever heard of. Who would ever go for that? And if you look at what Blizzard are currently doing, you can notice they don't care about esports at all. It's just empty words, that's all. I mean no LAN, region lock, tournament licenses, wanting to able able to ask for any sum of money. Not to mention their perception of esport is pretty skewed to start with. Morhaime said to them it's a way to increase the enjoyment of players. That's very close minded and short sighted. A vast portion of esports fans (BW) are not BW players themselves. Not to mention claiming they'll release all their "pro league" replays, which is utterly ignorant. Why would any respectable progamer actually play there? There were several incidents related to replay leaking in both BW and WC3 scenes. Why would a progamer want most of his practice games be readily available to his competitors? T____T I'm siding with KeSPA here. They are the lesser evil. Blizzard wants to run the SC2 esports scene as some authoritarian state and they've shown they're incompetent when it comes to such relatively small events like BlizzCon. You guys have it backwards. Blizzard isn't removing LAN, locking regions, and such to control the SC scene. What happens is Kespa's making however much millions or billions or whatever on their product. Blizzard says, you know, since we made it, you're making ridiculous profit, don't you think you owe us something or have some say? Kespa gives them the finger and stonewalls them for the last few years. They claim that broadcasting isn't violating blizzard's intellectual property and therefore they don't owe anything. Blizzard: hmmm, we could either keep these bs loopholes in our new game and allow them exploit them or close them overly thoroughly. They were perfectly fine with anti-hack and chaoslauncher even though they probably violate the EULA; they're willing to overlook just about everything as long as it's clear that they have the right to do so. They've never fined people. I doubt Blizzard would put in any of these restrictions if Kespa agreed to cooperate. They don't care at all how Kespa runs their leagues, they probably just want Kespa to get permission from them, probably for some nominal sum or small percentage. If there's a way to enable LAN and maintain intellectual property, I'm sure they'd be willing to do it. They would probably overlook it if someone finds a way to create a 3rd party LAN system, and only want the illegal part as IP leverage against kespa clones. Do you really know what nominal sum of money is Blizz asking for. I bet you don't. The point is KeSPA doesn't need SC2. There are a lot of good RTS games out there if they ever want to replace BW, which I seriously doubt they do. Just because the name of the game is Starcraft X doesn't automatically makes it anywhere close to being good as SCBW. Imagine NBA replacing basketball with something else. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Right. Blizzard is the only one that makes these kind of games, they made SC, they made War3 which whatever you think of it, was a competitive success, and they are putting a good deal of effort into SC2. No one else does this. KESPA tried hard to push other games to make profits off of, like Sudden Attack, but they've all been comparative failures to the beast that is SC BW, a game that is only beautifully competitive because Blizzard designed it and patched it intelligently, without which no amount of community map making could have done anything. They put a lot of effort and skill into creating competitive games and they obviously want some of the action instead of watching other people profit off that without giving them anything. If it were only the players who made SC BW amazing then the players could make any game amazing, and we wouldn't need Blizzard at all, we could just run off and have an amazing competitive game of Dawn of War 2 or whatever. Oh wait, we can't, because those games suck balls for strategic competitive play and spectating enjoyment. Good luck finding a replacement. If Blizzard was so easily replaced KEPSA would have had smash hits with other games years ago. KESPA is easily replaced- anyone can do what they do, its nothing to be commended for whatsoever- Blizzard is not easily replaced. Why doesn't the Korean community build and design a nice competitive RTS for us to play and watch? Oh right, they don't have the skills.
Well, why wasn't Warcraft 3 a sucess like SCBW in Korea. Because real progamers didn't want to switch the game. I don't think Blizz ever had in mind competitive gameplay and progaming when they designed SC and SCBW. It just turned out to be like that. Thats why they didn't have this fucking shit about broadcasting rights and royalties in their EULA. On the other hand they designed WC3 to be competitive and it still didn't went well in Korea. That's because you have an army of kids in Korea practicing like crazy SCBW. Why would they suddenly switch to something else with risks of that game not becoming popular. The same thing will happen to SC2 in Korea. In the rest of the world it will also be the same thing with SC2 as with WC3. There will be some tournaments, maybe even a WCG (if Blizz doen't ask for royalties), it will be popular, but that has nothing to do with it being a professional sport with a regular leagues, big sponsors, players who live only by playing the game. And that means we might never see level of skill that we currently see in SCBW in Korea. I hope it never dies  .
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On April 28 2010 22:25 Oddysay wrote:well LetMeShine we know some of the copyright blizzard want and we also know they want kespa to agree for SC1 and SC2 . and why people talk about disrespect towards blizzard from kespa now ? if you get any source show them or stop say that , they just cant agree to what blizzard want because that way too much. blizzard are curently showing no respects for fans , players , and pro gamer right now , and i can give you many source and link . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- THAT WAS POSTED FROM SOMEONE IN THIS TOPIC , ALL THANK TO HIM > Sounds like I was quite correct regarding Blizzard being unreasonable. Here's a pretty good article that summarizes the terms that KeSPA and Blizzard was dealing with. It's quite old, but I imagine the situation hasn't changed at all. http://www.thegames.co.kr/main/newsview.php?category=201&subcategory=1&id=142824Key points >>블리자드의 배틀넷 통합계정 약관 가운데 e스포츠와 관련해 쟁점이 되고 있는 조항은 제 7조와 14조의 내용들이다. The articles in the Blizzard's BattleNet Terms of Agreement that has become a controversial point is the 7th and the 14th articles >>블리자드는 7조에서 게임 내의 대화 내용, 유저의 캐릭터 프로필까지 블리자드의 소유로 규정하고 이와 관련해 블리자드의 동의 없이는 어떤 2차 저작물도 제작할 수 없다고 규정하고 있다. Blizzard, in the 7th article, states that conversations within the game, to even user's characters profiles are the properties of Blizzard and without the consent of Blizzard, no one is allowed to create any secondary creation using them. >>7조 1항에 따르면 유저들은 블리자드가 만든 경기 대회 규칙 또는 팬 정책으로 정한 경우를 제외하고는 게임 또는 서비스를 기반으로 한 어떠한 저작물도 만들지 못한다 The 7th article 1st term states that, excluding Blizzard's contest/tournament rules, or other fan policies, users are not allowed to use the game or the service to create any sort of product. >>블리자드는 또 14조 4항을 통해 한국 e스포츠계와 협상해 온 중계권 문제도 정리해 놓았다. 이 조항에서 블리자드는 ‘방송, 전자 통신을 통한 일반 대중과의 통신, 전시, 수행, 컴퓨터 메모리로의 접속, 사용 및 이용할 권리’ 등을 자사가 소유한다고 밝히고 있다. Blizzard also used the 14th article 4th term to state their opinion on publishing rights that they were discussing with KeSPA. This term states that Blizzard owns the right to publish and use anything related to SC2. (lazy translation near the end but it's 3:19 AM!) >>이밖에 유저가 콘텐츠에 대해 가질 수 있는 모든 저작인격권을 포기할 것을 요구하고 있다. 이들 조항을 적용하면 ‘스타2’를 이용해 대회를 열거나 방송중계를 하는 것 모두 블리자드의 허락을 받지 않으면 불가능하게 된다. Other than these terms, Blizzard also demands that users need to abandon any authorship of anything regarding the contents. If these terms are applied, then blizzard's permission will be needed to hold a contest/tournament or air the matches on TV regarding Starcraft 2 >>블리자드는 그동안 ‘스타2’를 이용해 게임대회를 개최하거나 방송을 중계할 경우 자사의 허락을 받아야 할 뿐만 아니라 저작권료를 지불해야 한다고 주장해 왔다. Blizzard has been using Starcraft 2 to state that whenever a gaming tournament is held, or whenever matches are aired on TV, not only do users need to gain permission from blizzard, but also need to pay royalties to Blizzard >>반면 한국 e스포츠계는 대회나 방송중계 등은 저작권의 범위에 속하지 않는다며 기존 ‘스타크래프트’와 같은 방식으로 대회나 중계를 할 수 있도록 해 줄 것을 요청해 왔다. On the other hand, KeSPA stated that Tournaments and TV Airings do not fall under Blizzard's ownership and requested that Starcraft 2 could be held at a similar format as the original Starcraft. >>최원제 한국e스포츠협회 사무총장은 “블리자드가 계속 지재권을 주장한다면 방송사나 e스포츠 구단들이 ‘스타2’에 등을 돌리게 될 것”이라며 “국내 e스포츠는 블리자드가 만든 것이 아니라 방송사와 구단들이 만들어 온 것이기 때문”이라고 지적했다. Choi WonJae, the Secretary General (wtf) of KeSPA stated that "If Blizzard continues to push forth for ownership, then Broadcasting stations and ESports Leagues will turn their backs to SC2" and "Korea's Esports was not made by Blizzard but created by the Broadcasting Stations and the Leagues". >>e스포츠업계 한 관계자는 “지금의 e스포츠 구단들은 이익을 남기기 위해서가 아니라 사회에 공헌하기 위해 구단을 운영하는 경우가 대부분”이라며 “만약 블리자드가 e스포츠를 이용해 ‘스타2’ 판매를 극대화 하려 한다면 구단들이 팀 운영을 포기하는 사태도 벌어질 수 있다”고 경계했다. A personnel related to Esports stated that "Many of the Esports leagues do not operate to make a profit but to contribute to society" and that "If Blizzard uses ESports only to increase Starcraft 2 sales, there could be a tragedy where many supporting companies will give up on operating a team"(As a note there has been many hints that KeSPA does not have that much money in a few of the articles I've read, so this seems to be accurate, especially since iirc SC games are free to go to) >>-약관상에 언급된 저작권 부분과 ‘스타크래프트2’의 랜을 통한 멀티플레이 미지원을 조합하면 사실상 블리자드의 허락없이는 ‘스타크래프트2’를 통한 e스포츠대회를 개최할 수 없는 것인가. ▲블리자드코리아(이하 블리자드): 블리자드의 입장은 개발사로서 자사의 작품에 대한 저작권을 보호하겠다는 것이다. e스포츠에 대한 부분도 마찬가지다. ‘스타크래프트2’를 통해 토너먼트 대회를 진행하거나 방송 중계를 하기 위해서는 블리자드의 사전 동의나 협의가 필요하다. 동의나 협의 없이는 토너먼트 대회나 방송 중계를 할 수 없다. (Basically a Korean Blizzard Representative states that Blizzard removed LAN to limit eSports so that they need to get Blizzard's permission.) >>▲블리자드 : 블리자드는 모든 작품을 통합 계정을 통해 이용하도록 할 생각인 것은 맞다. ‘스타크래프트’ 역시 통합 계정을 이용해 배틀넷을 이용하게 될 것이다. 하지만 현재로서는 ‘스타크래프트’의 향후 계획에 대해 말할 수 있는 것이 없다. 기본 입장은 우리 작품에 대한 저작권을 보호하겠다는 것이다. (Even Starcraft will be held over Blizzard's Battlenet (but, the employee then states that he cannot talk about the issue atm)) (AKA: KeSPA needs to agree to Blizzard's term regarding Starcraft in addition to Starcraft 2) --- So, any wonders why KeSPA is disagreeing with Blizzard? Blizzard attempting to centralize eSports is probably going to kill it faster than anything else ever -- just imagine playing Starcraft without ICCUP! Simply put, I don't see any reasonable company agreeing to these terms, nor any Broadcasting Station. Good luck, Blizzard!
Why did you post this? Everyone is just going to ignore or try to justify it.
Why anyone who genuinely supports Esports could be against KeSPA is beyond me. You're talking about a government recognized entity that regulates programing in Korea. Try asking Obama or any other government in the west about forming a government entity for progaming and you'll get laughed at. Do you people realize that KeSPA not only looks over starcraft, but also every other professionally played game also?
KeSPA is the little guy here, Blizzard/Activision is the giant coming to take over. Get that through your thick heads, you biased idiots. Nothing good will come from the demise of KeSPA. Every establishment has problems, no organization is perfect, but you need a central authority, and KeSPA is filling that role in Korea. Blizzard did what they do best. They made a game and got paid for it. They didn't contribute to Esports in anyway. Their aim in Making starcraft wasn't in promoting Esports. It just HAPPENED to be perfect for Esports in Korea. Now Blizzard is trying to reap the benefits of that. I mean, there was simply no reason to remove LAN except to centralize everything so they can control all that goes on.
I read a few pages and always the same few people and their talking points, and then the mindless mass eating it up.
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On April 28 2010 23:14 shinwa wrote:
Have been reading through most of the comments here and I find one of the arguments from the pro KeSPA people, quite amusing. As I was amazed by the fact that there's basically no one who have commented on these posts, I'd like to give my 2 cents about that.
The arguments I am talking about is the comparisons between starcraft and Photoshop/other design or coding software used, and regarding whether or not the companies using their software are paying royalties or not.
I think the answer here is quite simple. Compare the price between Starcraft and say, for example, Photoshop. Starcraft when that was new, probably had a price of about 40-60$, while Photoshop CS5 is going to cost around 1500$ (just checked quickly on adobe.com, so this is not a precise number).
Now, why is that? Well, from what I understand - a big reason for why these types of softwares are that expensive, is because you are free to use them to make money. Simple as that.
That should probably nullify that, in some way, silly argument of why Blizzard should not be able to expect some kind of compensation from companies who are profiting on a product that they do not own in that sense. I do not see how this should be different than the music industry for example.
Then Blizz can charge more for the game copy that doesn't have those stupid terms in the EULA and leave the organization of eSPORTs to somebody else.
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I think this is definitely a complicated issue in which Blizzard and KeSPA both have some responsibility to do what's best for eSports and the fans. I think both organizations have shown themselves to be unreasonable at times, so I hope that an agreement can be made.
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CA10824 Posts
On April 28 2010 23:25 nimoraca wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 17:25 FieryBalrog wrote:On April 27 2010 17:56 nimoraca wrote:On April 27 2010 17:30 igotmyown wrote:On April 27 2010 16:48 maybenexttime wrote:On April 27 2010 16:20 xBillehx wrote:On April 27 2010 13:29 MuffinDude wrote:
Dude, blizzard just want profits while kespa at least has a slight intention of keeping progaming alive. Kespa is clearly the lesser of two evil here. I just don't like how blizzard is asking kespa for pretty much more money when kespa isn't making too much themselves either.
Blizzard made scbw, but it was the fans that made scbw like it is now, not blizzard. lol. Ok, Blizzard asking for more money? Blizzard hasn't gotten anything from Starcraft 2 and that's the one thing they were asking for. Royalties. Look it up. KeSPA isn't making too much themselves? They basically never lose money. They put no investment into the development of the game and broadcast it on TV collecting a ton of money from it. It was an investment, and the investment went gold. Any other group could have taken the risk and forked up some investment money to grow progaming in Korea. In fact, any other group can now. Starcraft 2 already has the hype it needs to surpass BW. KeSPA had nothing to do with that. Since KeSPA acted like a spoiled child, Blizzard will just find a new group who wants to make money by investing in their product and broadcasting. I'll agree with your last point. It's the fans that made scbw like it is now. The demand to watch these progamers is why it was kept alive. The fans also couldnt give two shits if it was KeSPA, SM Entertainment, or Blizzard running the tournaments, as long as they got some good games to watch. But besides that, Blizzard never wanted control over Proleagues of SC2 in Korea. They were completely willing to let KeSPA do their thing and even tried for three years to negotiate their rightfully entitled royalties, but KeSPA didn't wanna pay to broadcast someone else's new product. They basically wanted to make more money off of a new product, for free. I have no doubt other groups will pop up to help. Hell, even in the interview itself, Blizzard is going to find a new partner to run it, not themselves. KeSPA lost out on this one and I look forward to the future of Starcraft 2 because, sad as it is, broodwar is dieing. They wanted to be allowed to ask ANY amount of money from KeSPA (or any tournament organizer for that matter) at any time afaik. That's the most ridiculous condition I've ever heard of. Who would ever go for that? And if you look at what Blizzard are currently doing, you can notice they don't care about esports at all. It's just empty words, that's all. I mean no LAN, region lock, tournament licenses, wanting to able able to ask for any sum of money. Not to mention their perception of esport is pretty skewed to start with. Morhaime said to them it's a way to increase the enjoyment of players. That's very close minded and short sighted. A vast portion of esports fans (BW) are not BW players themselves. Not to mention claiming they'll release all their "pro league" replays, which is utterly ignorant. Why would any respectable progamer actually play there? There were several incidents related to replay leaking in both BW and WC3 scenes. Why would a progamer want most of his practice games be readily available to his competitors? T____T I'm siding with KeSPA here. They are the lesser evil. Blizzard wants to run the SC2 esports scene as some authoritarian state and they've shown they're incompetent when it comes to such relatively small events like BlizzCon. You guys have it backwards. Blizzard isn't removing LAN, locking regions, and such to control the SC scene. What happens is Kespa's making however much millions or billions or whatever on their product. Blizzard says, you know, since we made it, you're making ridiculous profit, don't you think you owe us something or have some say? Kespa gives them the finger and stonewalls them for the last few years. They claim that broadcasting isn't violating blizzard's intellectual property and therefore they don't owe anything. Blizzard: hmmm, we could either keep these bs loopholes in our new game and allow them exploit them or close them overly thoroughly. They were perfectly fine with anti-hack and chaoslauncher even though they probably violate the EULA; they're willing to overlook just about everything as long as it's clear that they have the right to do so. They've never fined people. I doubt Blizzard would put in any of these restrictions if Kespa agreed to cooperate. They don't care at all how Kespa runs their leagues, they probably just want Kespa to get permission from them, probably for some nominal sum or small percentage. If there's a way to enable LAN and maintain intellectual property, I'm sure they'd be willing to do it. They would probably overlook it if someone finds a way to create a 3rd party LAN system, and only want the illegal part as IP leverage against kespa clones. Do you really know what nominal sum of money is Blizz asking for. I bet you don't. The point is KeSPA doesn't need SC2. There are a lot of good RTS games out there if they ever want to replace BW, which I seriously doubt they do. Just because the name of the game is Starcraft X doesn't automatically makes it anywhere close to being good as SCBW. Imagine NBA replacing basketball with something else. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Right. Blizzard is the only one that makes these kind of games, they made SC, they made War3 which whatever you think of it, was a competitive success, and they are putting a good deal of effort into SC2. No one else does this. KESPA tried hard to push other games to make profits off of, like Sudden Attack, but they've all been comparative failures to the beast that is SC BW, a game that is only beautifully competitive because Blizzard designed it and patched it intelligently, without which no amount of community map making could have done anything. They put a lot of effort and skill into creating competitive games and they obviously want some of the action instead of watching other people profit off that without giving them anything. If it were only the players who made SC BW amazing then the players could make any game amazing, and we wouldn't need Blizzard at all, we could just run off and have an amazing competitive game of Dawn of War 2 or whatever. Oh wait, we can't, because those games suck balls for strategic competitive play and spectating enjoyment. Good luck finding a replacement. If Blizzard was so easily replaced KEPSA would have had smash hits with other games years ago. KESPA is easily replaced- anyone can do what they do, its nothing to be commended for whatsoever- Blizzard is not easily replaced. Why doesn't the Korean community build and design a nice competitive RTS for us to play and watch? Oh right, they don't have the skills. Well, why wasn't Warcraft 3 a sucess like SCBW in Korea. Because real progamers didn't want to switch the game. I don't think Blizz ever had in mind competitive gameplay and progaming when they designed SC and SCBW. It just turned out to be like that. Thats why they didn't have this fucking shit about broadcasting rights and royalties in their EULA. On the other hand they designed WC3 to be competitive and it still didn't went well in Korea. That's because you have an army of kids in Korea practicing like crazy SCBW. Why would they suddenly switch to something else with risks of that game not becoming popular. The same thing will happen to SC2 in Korea. In the rest of the world it will also be the same thing with SC2 as with WC3. There will be some tournaments, maybe even a WCG (if Blizz doen't ask for royalties), it will be popular, but that has nothing to do with it being a professional sport with a regular leagues, big sponsors, players who live only by playing the game. And that means we might never see level of skill that we currently see in SCBW in Korea. I hope it never dies .
while wc3 wasn't close to the popularity of sc, it was gaining momentum until... http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/9111-MBC_Map_Scandal_Update
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On April 28 2010 23:32 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 22:25 Oddysay wrote:well LetMeShine we know some of the copyright blizzard want and we also know they want kespa to agree for SC1 and SC2 . and why people talk about disrespect towards blizzard from kespa now ? if you get any source show them or stop say that , they just cant agree to what blizzard want because that way too much. blizzard are curently showing no respects for fans , players , and pro gamer right now , and i can give you many source and link . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- THAT WAS POSTED FROM SOMEONE IN THIS TOPIC , ALL THANK TO HIM > Sounds like I was quite correct regarding Blizzard being unreasonable. Here's a pretty good article that summarizes the terms that KeSPA and Blizzard was dealing with. It's quite old, but I imagine the situation hasn't changed at all. http://www.thegames.co.kr/main/newsview.php?category=201&subcategory=1&id=142824Key points >>블리자드의 배틀넷 통합계정 약관 가운데 e스포츠와 관련해 쟁점이 되고 있는 조항은 제 7조와 14조의 내용들이다. The articles in the Blizzard's BattleNet Terms of Agreement that has become a controversial point is the 7th and the 14th articles >>블리자드는 7조에서 게임 내의 대화 내용, 유저의 캐릭터 프로필까지 블리자드의 소유로 규정하고 이와 관련해 블리자드의 동의 없이는 어떤 2차 저작물도 제작할 수 없다고 규정하고 있다. Blizzard, in the 7th article, states that conversations within the game, to even user's characters profiles are the properties of Blizzard and without the consent of Blizzard, no one is allowed to create any secondary creation using them. >>7조 1항에 따르면 유저들은 블리자드가 만든 경기 대회 규칙 또는 팬 정책으로 정한 경우를 제외하고는 게임 또는 서비스를 기반으로 한 어떠한 저작물도 만들지 못한다 The 7th article 1st term states that, excluding Blizzard's contest/tournament rules, or other fan policies, users are not allowed to use the game or the service to create any sort of product. >>블리자드는 또 14조 4항을 통해 한국 e스포츠계와 협상해 온 중계권 문제도 정리해 놓았다. 이 조항에서 블리자드는 ‘방송, 전자 통신을 통한 일반 대중과의 통신, 전시, 수행, 컴퓨터 메모리로의 접속, 사용 및 이용할 권리’ 등을 자사가 소유한다고 밝히고 있다. Blizzard also used the 14th article 4th term to state their opinion on publishing rights that they were discussing with KeSPA. This term states that Blizzard owns the right to publish and use anything related to SC2. (lazy translation near the end but it's 3:19 AM!) >>이밖에 유저가 콘텐츠에 대해 가질 수 있는 모든 저작인격권을 포기할 것을 요구하고 있다. 이들 조항을 적용하면 ‘스타2’를 이용해 대회를 열거나 방송중계를 하는 것 모두 블리자드의 허락을 받지 않으면 불가능하게 된다. Other than these terms, Blizzard also demands that users need to abandon any authorship of anything regarding the contents. If these terms are applied, then blizzard's permission will be needed to hold a contest/tournament or air the matches on TV regarding Starcraft 2 >>블리자드는 그동안 ‘스타2’를 이용해 게임대회를 개최하거나 방송을 중계할 경우 자사의 허락을 받아야 할 뿐만 아니라 저작권료를 지불해야 한다고 주장해 왔다. Blizzard has been using Starcraft 2 to state that whenever a gaming tournament is held, or whenever matches are aired on TV, not only do users need to gain permission from blizzard, but also need to pay royalties to Blizzard >>반면 한국 e스포츠계는 대회나 방송중계 등은 저작권의 범위에 속하지 않는다며 기존 ‘스타크래프트’와 같은 방식으로 대회나 중계를 할 수 있도록 해 줄 것을 요청해 왔다. On the other hand, KeSPA stated that Tournaments and TV Airings do not fall under Blizzard's ownership and requested that Starcraft 2 could be held at a similar format as the original Starcraft. >>최원제 한국e스포츠협회 사무총장은 “블리자드가 계속 지재권을 주장한다면 방송사나 e스포츠 구단들이 ‘스타2’에 등을 돌리게 될 것”이라며 “국내 e스포츠는 블리자드가 만든 것이 아니라 방송사와 구단들이 만들어 온 것이기 때문”이라고 지적했다. Choi WonJae, the Secretary General (wtf) of KeSPA stated that "If Blizzard continues to push forth for ownership, then Broadcasting stations and ESports Leagues will turn their backs to SC2" and "Korea's Esports was not made by Blizzard but created by the Broadcasting Stations and the Leagues". >>e스포츠업계 한 관계자는 “지금의 e스포츠 구단들은 이익을 남기기 위해서가 아니라 사회에 공헌하기 위해 구단을 운영하는 경우가 대부분”이라며 “만약 블리자드가 e스포츠를 이용해 ‘스타2’ 판매를 극대화 하려 한다면 구단들이 팀 운영을 포기하는 사태도 벌어질 수 있다”고 경계했다. A personnel related to Esports stated that "Many of the Esports leagues do not operate to make a profit but to contribute to society" and that "If Blizzard uses ESports only to increase Starcraft 2 sales, there could be a tragedy where many supporting companies will give up on operating a team"(As a note there has been many hints that KeSPA does not have that much money in a few of the articles I've read, so this seems to be accurate, especially since iirc SC games are free to go to) >>-약관상에 언급된 저작권 부분과 ‘스타크래프트2’의 랜을 통한 멀티플레이 미지원을 조합하면 사실상 블리자드의 허락없이는 ‘스타크래프트2’를 통한 e스포츠대회를 개최할 수 없는 것인가. ▲블리자드코리아(이하 블리자드): 블리자드의 입장은 개발사로서 자사의 작품에 대한 저작권을 보호하겠다는 것이다. e스포츠에 대한 부분도 마찬가지다. ‘스타크래프트2’를 통해 토너먼트 대회를 진행하거나 방송 중계를 하기 위해서는 블리자드의 사전 동의나 협의가 필요하다. 동의나 협의 없이는 토너먼트 대회나 방송 중계를 할 수 없다. (Basically a Korean Blizzard Representative states that Blizzard removed LAN to limit eSports so that they need to get Blizzard's permission.) >>▲블리자드 : 블리자드는 모든 작품을 통합 계정을 통해 이용하도록 할 생각인 것은 맞다. ‘스타크래프트’ 역시 통합 계정을 이용해 배틀넷을 이용하게 될 것이다. 하지만 현재로서는 ‘스타크래프트’의 향후 계획에 대해 말할 수 있는 것이 없다. 기본 입장은 우리 작품에 대한 저작권을 보호하겠다는 것이다. (Even Starcraft will be held over Blizzard's Battlenet (but, the employee then states that he cannot talk about the issue atm)) (AKA: KeSPA needs to agree to Blizzard's term regarding Starcraft in addition to Starcraft 2) --- So, any wonders why KeSPA is disagreeing with Blizzard? Blizzard attempting to centralize eSports is probably going to kill it faster than anything else ever -- just imagine playing Starcraft without ICCUP! Simply put, I don't see any reasonable company agreeing to these terms, nor any Broadcasting Station. Good luck, Blizzard! Why did you post this? Everyone is just going to ignore or try to justify it. Why anyone who genuinely supports Esports could be against KeSPA is beyond me. You're talking about a government recognized entity that regulates programing in Korea. Try asking Obama or any other government in the west about forming a government entity for progaming and you'll get laughed at. Do you people realize that KeSPA not only looks over starcraft, but also every other professionally played game also? KeSPA is the little guy here, Blizzard/Activision is the giant coming to take over. Get that through your thick heads, you biased idiots. Nothing good will come from the demise of KeSPA. Every establishment has problems, no organization is perfect, but you need a central authority, and KeSPA is filling that role in Korea. Blizzard did what they do best. They made a game and got paid for it. They didn't contribute to Esports in anyway. Their aim in Making starcraft wasn't in promoting Esports. It just HAPPENED to be perfect for Esports in Korea. Now Blizzard is trying to reap the benefits of that. I mean, there was simply no reason to remove LAN except to centralize everything so they can control all that goes on. I read a few pages and always the same few people and their talking points, and then the mindless mass eating it up.
MTE. Thank you.
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KeSPA was indeed extremely important for Starcraft, but why would anybody trust them after the scandal is beyond me.
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On April 29 2010 00:38 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 23:25 nimoraca wrote:On April 28 2010 17:25 FieryBalrog wrote:On April 27 2010 17:56 nimoraca wrote:On April 27 2010 17:30 igotmyown wrote:On April 27 2010 16:48 maybenexttime wrote:On April 27 2010 16:20 xBillehx wrote:On April 27 2010 13:29 MuffinDude wrote:
Dude, blizzard just want profits while kespa at least has a slight intention of keeping progaming alive. Kespa is clearly the lesser of two evil here. I just don't like how blizzard is asking kespa for pretty much more money when kespa isn't making too much themselves either.
Blizzard made scbw, but it was the fans that made scbw like it is now, not blizzard. lol. Ok, Blizzard asking for more money? Blizzard hasn't gotten anything from Starcraft 2 and that's the one thing they were asking for. Royalties. Look it up. KeSPA isn't making too much themselves? They basically never lose money. They put no investment into the development of the game and broadcast it on TV collecting a ton of money from it. It was an investment, and the investment went gold. Any other group could have taken the risk and forked up some investment money to grow progaming in Korea. In fact, any other group can now. Starcraft 2 already has the hype it needs to surpass BW. KeSPA had nothing to do with that. Since KeSPA acted like a spoiled child, Blizzard will just find a new group who wants to make money by investing in their product and broadcasting. I'll agree with your last point. It's the fans that made scbw like it is now. The demand to watch these progamers is why it was kept alive. The fans also couldnt give two shits if it was KeSPA, SM Entertainment, or Blizzard running the tournaments, as long as they got some good games to watch. But besides that, Blizzard never wanted control over Proleagues of SC2 in Korea. They were completely willing to let KeSPA do their thing and even tried for three years to negotiate their rightfully entitled royalties, but KeSPA didn't wanna pay to broadcast someone else's new product. They basically wanted to make more money off of a new product, for free. I have no doubt other groups will pop up to help. Hell, even in the interview itself, Blizzard is going to find a new partner to run it, not themselves. KeSPA lost out on this one and I look forward to the future of Starcraft 2 because, sad as it is, broodwar is dieing. They wanted to be allowed to ask ANY amount of money from KeSPA (or any tournament organizer for that matter) at any time afaik. That's the most ridiculous condition I've ever heard of. Who would ever go for that? And if you look at what Blizzard are currently doing, you can notice they don't care about esports at all. It's just empty words, that's all. I mean no LAN, region lock, tournament licenses, wanting to able able to ask for any sum of money. Not to mention their perception of esport is pretty skewed to start with. Morhaime said to them it's a way to increase the enjoyment of players. That's very close minded and short sighted. A vast portion of esports fans (BW) are not BW players themselves. Not to mention claiming they'll release all their "pro league" replays, which is utterly ignorant. Why would any respectable progamer actually play there? There were several incidents related to replay leaking in both BW and WC3 scenes. Why would a progamer want most of his practice games be readily available to his competitors? T____T I'm siding with KeSPA here. They are the lesser evil. Blizzard wants to run the SC2 esports scene as some authoritarian state and they've shown they're incompetent when it comes to such relatively small events like BlizzCon. You guys have it backwards. Blizzard isn't removing LAN, locking regions, and such to control the SC scene. What happens is Kespa's making however much millions or billions or whatever on their product. Blizzard says, you know, since we made it, you're making ridiculous profit, don't you think you owe us something or have some say? Kespa gives them the finger and stonewalls them for the last few years. They claim that broadcasting isn't violating blizzard's intellectual property and therefore they don't owe anything. Blizzard: hmmm, we could either keep these bs loopholes in our new game and allow them exploit them or close them overly thoroughly. They were perfectly fine with anti-hack and chaoslauncher even though they probably violate the EULA; they're willing to overlook just about everything as long as it's clear that they have the right to do so. They've never fined people. I doubt Blizzard would put in any of these restrictions if Kespa agreed to cooperate. They don't care at all how Kespa runs their leagues, they probably just want Kespa to get permission from them, probably for some nominal sum or small percentage. If there's a way to enable LAN and maintain intellectual property, I'm sure they'd be willing to do it. They would probably overlook it if someone finds a way to create a 3rd party LAN system, and only want the illegal part as IP leverage against kespa clones. Do you really know what nominal sum of money is Blizz asking for. I bet you don't. The point is KeSPA doesn't need SC2. There are a lot of good RTS games out there if they ever want to replace BW, which I seriously doubt they do. Just because the name of the game is Starcraft X doesn't automatically makes it anywhere close to being good as SCBW. Imagine NBA replacing basketball with something else. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Right. Blizzard is the only one that makes these kind of games, they made SC, they made War3 which whatever you think of it, was a competitive success, and they are putting a good deal of effort into SC2. No one else does this. KESPA tried hard to push other games to make profits off of, like Sudden Attack, but they've all been comparative failures to the beast that is SC BW, a game that is only beautifully competitive because Blizzard designed it and patched it intelligently, without which no amount of community map making could have done anything. They put a lot of effort and skill into creating competitive games and they obviously want some of the action instead of watching other people profit off that without giving them anything. If it were only the players who made SC BW amazing then the players could make any game amazing, and we wouldn't need Blizzard at all, we could just run off and have an amazing competitive game of Dawn of War 2 or whatever. Oh wait, we can't, because those games suck balls for strategic competitive play and spectating enjoyment. Good luck finding a replacement. If Blizzard was so easily replaced KEPSA would have had smash hits with other games years ago. KESPA is easily replaced- anyone can do what they do, its nothing to be commended for whatsoever- Blizzard is not easily replaced. Why doesn't the Korean community build and design a nice competitive RTS for us to play and watch? Oh right, they don't have the skills. Well, why wasn't Warcraft 3 a sucess like SCBW in Korea. Because real progamers didn't want to switch the game. I don't think Blizz ever had in mind competitive gameplay and progaming when they designed SC and SCBW. It just turned out to be like that. Thats why they didn't have this fucking shit about broadcasting rights and royalties in their EULA. On the other hand they designed WC3 to be competitive and it still didn't went well in Korea. That's because you have an army of kids in Korea practicing like crazy SCBW. Why would they suddenly switch to something else with risks of that game not becoming popular. The same thing will happen to SC2 in Korea. In the rest of the world it will also be the same thing with SC2 as with WC3. There will be some tournaments, maybe even a WCG (if Blizz doen't ask for royalties), it will be popular, but that has nothing to do with it being a professional sport with a regular leagues, big sponsors, players who live only by playing the game. And that means we might never see level of skill that we currently see in SCBW in Korea. I hope it never dies . while wc3 wasn't close to the popularity of sc, it was gaining momentum until... http://www.sk-gaming.com/content/9111-MBC_Map_Scandal_Update
Wrong, it was downhill before that already. Moving from primetime live spot for recorded broadcast was mark of going down.
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On April 28 2010 23:44 nimoraca wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 23:14 shinwa wrote:
Have been reading through most of the comments here and I find one of the arguments from the pro KeSPA people, quite amusing. As I was amazed by the fact that there's basically no one who have commented on these posts, I'd like to give my 2 cents about that.
The arguments I am talking about is the comparisons between starcraft and Photoshop/other design or coding software used, and regarding whether or not the companies using their software are paying royalties or not.
I think the answer here is quite simple. Compare the price between Starcraft and say, for example, Photoshop. Starcraft when that was new, probably had a price of about 40-60$, while Photoshop CS5 is going to cost around 1500$ (just checked quickly on adobe.com, so this is not a precise number).
Now, why is that? Well, from what I understand - a big reason for why these types of softwares are that expensive, is because you are free to use them to make money. Simple as that.
That should probably nullify that, in some way, silly argument of why Blizzard should not be able to expect some kind of compensation from companies who are profiting on a product that they do not own in that sense. I do not see how this should be different than the music industry for example. Then Blizz can charge more for the game copy that doesn't have those stupid terms in the EULA and leave the organization of eSPORTs to somebody else.
So you would seriously consider paying >1500$ for a computer game, instead of just letting KeSPA (and other potential organisations) pay some percentage of their revenue they get from SC?
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Fierybalrog, you are tool and a moron.
If you know anything about ESports, it's impossible to deny that KeSPA played a major role in making BW a legend.
True, Bliz created BW. HOWEVER, without KeSPA, BW would've died off YEARS ago, yet thx to KeSPA and other E-sports organizers BW is still yet one of the most played games out there.
It would be a grand mistake by Bliz to deny E-sports organizers the freedom and financial means to promote THEIR game for free.
It is the best marketing any game company could ask for.
Any other company would die to have their game marketed in such a way.
I seriously wish Bliz would listen to their fanbase and plan their marketing plans in ways it would be a win-win for both sides.
User was banned for this post.
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EPT
