|
not too woried about this, someone will step up and take kespa's place and all will be swell.
|
If there's just the slightest of chances this will lead to more GOM-powered Tasteless in action, Blizzard has my full support.
That IS their true motive behind this move.
|
Well Blizzard surely isn't doing this for the love of e-sport. They didn't care for Korean E-sport so long and now with the upcoming sc2 release all this stuff happens? All they care about is $$$, sure they are a big company, can't blame them, but you dont get many fans this way.
|
Don't you guys realize how far KeSPA has come to grow in size, having all their match ups air in Korean TV, with all the sponsorships.. those things don't happen over night.
It'll be a HUGE set back for E-Sports development if KeSPA's to go down.
Yes someone will take over, but it won't be like the BW scene for a long time.
|
United States47024 Posts
On April 28 2010 23:32 ZeitgeistMovie wrote:
Why anyone who genuinely supports Esports could be against KeSPA is beyond me. You're talking about a government recognized entity that regulates programing in Korea. Try asking Obama or any other government in the west about forming a government entity for progaming and you'll get laughed at. Do you people realize that KeSPA not only looks over starcraft, but also every other professionally played game also?
You post this like it's big news? People like WaxAngel who've been reporting on this game since 2002 have been around through all of KeSPA's existence. You think they might know more than you do about it? You think there might be a legitimate reason for the patent dislike of KeSPA consistent across a large majority of people who've been around this community for any reasonable length of time?
On April 29 2010 01:26 Zeratool wrote:
Fierybalrog, you are tool and a moron.
Not necessary.
|
On April 29 2010 01:59 wiesel wrote:
Well Blizzard surely isn't doing this for the love of e-sport. They didn't care for Korean E-sport so long and now with the upcoming sc2 release all this stuff happens? All they care about is $$$, sure they are a big company, can't blame them, but you dont get many fans this way.
Do you think Kespa, an organization made up of and representing the billion dollar companies that sponsor the proteams, gives a shit about Esports anymore than how it can be used to their maximum benefit for advertising purposes?
At least Blizzard has a vested interest in the game past "how can this be marketed for maximum advertising effect?"
|
Please all keep in mind that laws are laws. Some poeple here stated "moral laws" which dont exist in free marked and are only used for marketing issues, not like anyone really cares about all this "green planet" all they do is marketing, keep that in mind.
The argumentation wheater kespa is better then blizzard or blizzard is better then kespa is like trying to compare an orange to an apple.
This whole argument can only be about what will happen to the scene in korea and what is blizzard going to do. We dont exactly know, we can only predict what economy has shown in previous years and what economy showed us many many times and see if that would apply to this case. Thats all you can do.
|
On April 28 2010 23:25 nimoraca wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 17:25 FieryBalrog wrote:On April 27 2010 17:56 nimoraca wrote:On April 27 2010 17:30 igotmyown wrote:On April 27 2010 16:48 maybenexttime wrote:On April 27 2010 16:20 xBillehx wrote:On April 27 2010 13:29 MuffinDude wrote:
Dude, blizzard just want profits while kespa at least has a slight intention of keeping progaming alive. Kespa is clearly the lesser of two evil here. I just don't like how blizzard is asking kespa for pretty much more money when kespa isn't making too much themselves either.
Blizzard made scbw, but it was the fans that made scbw like it is now, not blizzard. lol. Ok, Blizzard asking for more money? Blizzard hasn't gotten anything from Starcraft 2 and that's the one thing they were asking for. Royalties. Look it up. KeSPA isn't making too much themselves? They basically never lose money. They put no investment into the development of the game and broadcast it on TV collecting a ton of money from it. It was an investment, and the investment went gold. Any other group could have taken the risk and forked up some investment money to grow progaming in Korea. In fact, any other group can now. Starcraft 2 already has the hype it needs to surpass BW. KeSPA had nothing to do with that. Since KeSPA acted like a spoiled child, Blizzard will just find a new group who wants to make money by investing in their product and broadcasting. I'll agree with your last point. It's the fans that made scbw like it is now. The demand to watch these progamers is why it was kept alive. The fans also couldnt give two shits if it was KeSPA, SM Entertainment, or Blizzard running the tournaments, as long as they got some good games to watch. But besides that, Blizzard never wanted control over Proleagues of SC2 in Korea. They were completely willing to let KeSPA do their thing and even tried for three years to negotiate their rightfully entitled royalties, but KeSPA didn't wanna pay to broadcast someone else's new product. They basically wanted to make more money off of a new product, for free. I have no doubt other groups will pop up to help. Hell, even in the interview itself, Blizzard is going to find a new partner to run it, not themselves. KeSPA lost out on this one and I look forward to the future of Starcraft 2 because, sad as it is, broodwar is dieing. They wanted to be allowed to ask ANY amount of money from KeSPA (or any tournament organizer for that matter) at any time afaik. That's the most ridiculous condition I've ever heard of. Who would ever go for that? And if you look at what Blizzard are currently doing, you can notice they don't care about esports at all. It's just empty words, that's all. I mean no LAN, region lock, tournament licenses, wanting to able able to ask for any sum of money. Not to mention their perception of esport is pretty skewed to start with. Morhaime said to them it's a way to increase the enjoyment of players. That's very close minded and short sighted. A vast portion of esports fans (BW) are not BW players themselves. Not to mention claiming they'll release all their "pro league" replays, which is utterly ignorant. Why would any respectable progamer actually play there? There were several incidents related to replay leaking in both BW and WC3 scenes. Why would a progamer want most of his practice games be readily available to his competitors? T____T I'm siding with KeSPA here. They are the lesser evil. Blizzard wants to run the SC2 esports scene as some authoritarian state and they've shown they're incompetent when it comes to such relatively small events like BlizzCon. You guys have it backwards. Blizzard isn't removing LAN, locking regions, and such to control the SC scene. What happens is Kespa's making however much millions or billions or whatever on their product. Blizzard says, you know, since we made it, you're making ridiculous profit, don't you think you owe us something or have some say? Kespa gives them the finger and stonewalls them for the last few years. They claim that broadcasting isn't violating blizzard's intellectual property and therefore they don't owe anything. Blizzard: hmmm, we could either keep these bs loopholes in our new game and allow them exploit them or close them overly thoroughly. They were perfectly fine with anti-hack and chaoslauncher even though they probably violate the EULA; they're willing to overlook just about everything as long as it's clear that they have the right to do so. They've never fined people. I doubt Blizzard would put in any of these restrictions if Kespa agreed to cooperate. They don't care at all how Kespa runs their leagues, they probably just want Kespa to get permission from them, probably for some nominal sum or small percentage. If there's a way to enable LAN and maintain intellectual property, I'm sure they'd be willing to do it. They would probably overlook it if someone finds a way to create a 3rd party LAN system, and only want the illegal part as IP leverage against kespa clones. Do you really know what nominal sum of money is Blizz asking for. I bet you don't. The point is KeSPA doesn't need SC2. There are a lot of good RTS games out there if they ever want to replace BW, which I seriously doubt they do. Just because the name of the game is Starcraft X doesn't automatically makes it anywhere close to being good as SCBW. Imagine NBA replacing basketball with something else. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Right. Blizzard is the only one that makes these kind of games, they made SC, they made War3 which whatever you think of it, was a competitive success, and they are putting a good deal of effort into SC2. No one else does this. KESPA tried hard to push other games to make profits off of, like Sudden Attack, but they've all been comparative failures to the beast that is SC BW, a game that is only beautifully competitive because Blizzard designed it and patched it intelligently, without which no amount of community map making could have done anything. They put a lot of effort and skill into creating competitive games and they obviously want some of the action instead of watching other people profit off that without giving them anything. If it were only the players who made SC BW amazing then the players could make any game amazing, and we wouldn't need Blizzard at all, we could just run off and have an amazing competitive game of Dawn of War 2 or whatever. Oh wait, we can't, because those games suck balls for strategic competitive play and spectating enjoyment. Good luck finding a replacement. If Blizzard was so easily replaced KEPSA would have had smash hits with other games years ago. KESPA is easily replaced- anyone can do what they do, its nothing to be commended for whatsoever- Blizzard is not easily replaced. Why doesn't the Korean community build and design a nice competitive RTS for us to play and watch? Oh right, they don't have the skills. Well, why wasn't Warcraft 3 a sucess like SCBW in Korea. Because real progamers didn't want to switch the game. I don't think Blizz ever had in mind competitive gameplay and progaming when they designed SC and SCBW. It just turned out to be like that. Thats why they didn't have this fucking shit about broadcasting rights and royalties in their EULA. On the other hand they designed WC3 to be competitive and it still didn't went well in Korea. That's because you have an army of kids in Korea practicing like crazy SCBW. Why would they suddenly switch to something else with risks of that game not becoming popular. The same thing will happen to SC2 in Korea. In the rest of the world it will also be the same thing with SC2 as with WC3. There will be some tournaments, maybe even a WCG (if Blizz doen't ask for royalties), it will be popular, but that has nothing to do with it being a professional sport with a regular leagues, big sponsors, players who live only by playing the game. And that means we might never see level of skill that we currently see in SCBW in Korea. I hope it never dies  .
WC3 was the most successful esport in Korea since Brood War until a major maprigging scandal basically killed it.
|
they'll be someone else who steps in and takes there place most likely, we'll have to wait and see
|
Blizzard and Activision combined. They have billions of dollars. Why don't they create another company and just keep it under the Activision Blizzard umbrella.
Edit: this other company would replace KeSPA. Maybe they could bring CAL back.  haha
|
On April 29 2010 04:10 fellcrow wrote:Blizzard and Activision combined. They have billions of dollars. Why don't they create another company and just keep it under the Activision Blizzard umbrella. Edit: this other company would replace KeSPA. Maybe they could bring CAL back. haha
Not in Korea it won't. And that's what matters in whether or not SC2 becomes a big e-sport there. Worldwide Blizzard will do fine (sales and such) regardless, this is more about the fate of SC2 in Korea.
|
On April 29 2010 04:10 fellcrow wrote:Blizzard and Activision combined. They have billions of dollars. Why don't they create another company and just keep it under the Activision Blizzard umbrella. Edit: this other company would replace KeSPA. Maybe they could bring CAL back. haha
Do you seriously think that blizzard would risk that much money? No way Jose!
|
WC3 was the most successful esport in Korea since Brood War until a major maprigging scandal basically killed it.
Wrong, like already said a few pages before.
At least Blizzard has a vested interest in the game past "how can this be marketed for maximum advertising effect?"
Blizzard only cares about money too.
Blizzard and Activision combined. They have billions of dollars. Why don't they create another company and just keep it under the Activision Blizzard umbrella.
Depending on how close Kespa is working with the korean government ( and i guess they are, knowing how much economy is based on sc in korea ) Blizzard basically has no chance at all to do this.
|
thanks for the article, too bad to see that diablo isn't comming out this year =(
|
On April 29 2010 02:50 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2010 23:25 nimoraca wrote:On April 28 2010 17:25 FieryBalrog wrote:On April 27 2010 17:56 nimoraca wrote:On April 27 2010 17:30 igotmyown wrote:On April 27 2010 16:48 maybenexttime wrote:On April 27 2010 16:20 xBillehx wrote:On April 27 2010 13:29 MuffinDude wrote:
Dude, blizzard just want profits while kespa at least has a slight intention of keeping progaming alive. Kespa is clearly the lesser of two evil here. I just don't like how blizzard is asking kespa for pretty much more money when kespa isn't making too much themselves either.
Blizzard made scbw, but it was the fans that made scbw like it is now, not blizzard. lol. Ok, Blizzard asking for more money? Blizzard hasn't gotten anything from Starcraft 2 and that's the one thing they were asking for. Royalties. Look it up. KeSPA isn't making too much themselves? They basically never lose money. They put no investment into the development of the game and broadcast it on TV collecting a ton of money from it. It was an investment, and the investment went gold. Any other group could have taken the risk and forked up some investment money to grow progaming in Korea. In fact, any other group can now. Starcraft 2 already has the hype it needs to surpass BW. KeSPA had nothing to do with that. Since KeSPA acted like a spoiled child, Blizzard will just find a new group who wants to make money by investing in their product and broadcasting. I'll agree with your last point. It's the fans that made scbw like it is now. The demand to watch these progamers is why it was kept alive. The fans also couldnt give two shits if it was KeSPA, SM Entertainment, or Blizzard running the tournaments, as long as they got some good games to watch. But besides that, Blizzard never wanted control over Proleagues of SC2 in Korea. They were completely willing to let KeSPA do their thing and even tried for three years to negotiate their rightfully entitled royalties, but KeSPA didn't wanna pay to broadcast someone else's new product. They basically wanted to make more money off of a new product, for free. I have no doubt other groups will pop up to help. Hell, even in the interview itself, Blizzard is going to find a new partner to run it, not themselves. KeSPA lost out on this one and I look forward to the future of Starcraft 2 because, sad as it is, broodwar is dieing. They wanted to be allowed to ask ANY amount of money from KeSPA (or any tournament organizer for that matter) at any time afaik. That's the most ridiculous condition I've ever heard of. Who would ever go for that? And if you look at what Blizzard are currently doing, you can notice they don't care about esports at all. It's just empty words, that's all. I mean no LAN, region lock, tournament licenses, wanting to able able to ask for any sum of money. Not to mention their perception of esport is pretty skewed to start with. Morhaime said to them it's a way to increase the enjoyment of players. That's very close minded and short sighted. A vast portion of esports fans (BW) are not BW players themselves. Not to mention claiming they'll release all their "pro league" replays, which is utterly ignorant. Why would any respectable progamer actually play there? There were several incidents related to replay leaking in both BW and WC3 scenes. Why would a progamer want most of his practice games be readily available to his competitors? T____T I'm siding with KeSPA here. They are the lesser evil. Blizzard wants to run the SC2 esports scene as some authoritarian state and they've shown they're incompetent when it comes to such relatively small events like BlizzCon. You guys have it backwards. Blizzard isn't removing LAN, locking regions, and such to control the SC scene. What happens is Kespa's making however much millions or billions or whatever on their product. Blizzard says, you know, since we made it, you're making ridiculous profit, don't you think you owe us something or have some say? Kespa gives them the finger and stonewalls them for the last few years. They claim that broadcasting isn't violating blizzard's intellectual property and therefore they don't owe anything. Blizzard: hmmm, we could either keep these bs loopholes in our new game and allow them exploit them or close them overly thoroughly. They were perfectly fine with anti-hack and chaoslauncher even though they probably violate the EULA; they're willing to overlook just about everything as long as it's clear that they have the right to do so. They've never fined people. I doubt Blizzard would put in any of these restrictions if Kespa agreed to cooperate. They don't care at all how Kespa runs their leagues, they probably just want Kespa to get permission from them, probably for some nominal sum or small percentage. If there's a way to enable LAN and maintain intellectual property, I'm sure they'd be willing to do it. They would probably overlook it if someone finds a way to create a 3rd party LAN system, and only want the illegal part as IP leverage against kespa clones. Do you really know what nominal sum of money is Blizz asking for. I bet you don't. The point is KeSPA doesn't need SC2. There are a lot of good RTS games out there if they ever want to replace BW, which I seriously doubt they do. Just because the name of the game is Starcraft X doesn't automatically makes it anywhere close to being good as SCBW. Imagine NBA replacing basketball with something else. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Right. Blizzard is the only one that makes these kind of games, they made SC, they made War3 which whatever you think of it, was a competitive success, and they are putting a good deal of effort into SC2. No one else does this. KESPA tried hard to push other games to make profits off of, like Sudden Attack, but they've all been comparative failures to the beast that is SC BW, a game that is only beautifully competitive because Blizzard designed it and patched it intelligently, without which no amount of community map making could have done anything. They put a lot of effort and skill into creating competitive games and they obviously want some of the action instead of watching other people profit off that without giving them anything. If it were only the players who made SC BW amazing then the players could make any game amazing, and we wouldn't need Blizzard at all, we could just run off and have an amazing competitive game of Dawn of War 2 or whatever. Oh wait, we can't, because those games suck balls for strategic competitive play and spectating enjoyment. Good luck finding a replacement. If Blizzard was so easily replaced KEPSA would have had smash hits with other games years ago. KESPA is easily replaced- anyone can do what they do, its nothing to be commended for whatsoever- Blizzard is not easily replaced. Why doesn't the Korean community build and design a nice competitive RTS for us to play and watch? Oh right, they don't have the skills. Well, why wasn't Warcraft 3 a sucess like SCBW in Korea. Because real progamers didn't want to switch the game. I don't think Blizz ever had in mind competitive gameplay and progaming when they designed SC and SCBW. It just turned out to be like that. Thats why they didn't have this fucking shit about broadcasting rights and royalties in their EULA. On the other hand they designed WC3 to be competitive and it still didn't went well in Korea. That's because you have an army of kids in Korea practicing like crazy SCBW. Why would they suddenly switch to something else with risks of that game not becoming popular. The same thing will happen to SC2 in Korea. In the rest of the world it will also be the same thing with SC2 as with WC3. There will be some tournaments, maybe even a WCG (if Blizz doen't ask for royalties), it will be popular, but that has nothing to do with it being a professional sport with a regular leagues, big sponsors, players who live only by playing the game. And that means we might never see level of skill that we currently see in SCBW in Korea. I hope it never dies . WC3 was the most successful esport in Korea since Brood War until a major maprigging scandal basically killed it.
Yes, but it never came even close to popularity of BW. Maprigging scandal was the last drop. It was already downhill even before that.
|
HonestTea
5007 Posts
|
United States47024 Posts
On April 29 2010 04:52 nimoraca wrote:
Yes, but it never came even close to popularity of BW. Maprigging scandal was the last drop. It was already downhill even before that.
The discussion of WC3 was in response to your claim that KeSPA could find another competitive RTS if it so desired and that it doesn't need Blizzard. The point was that there has only been one RTS other than Starcraft that is even worth considering as far as competitive success, and it's also a Blizzard game. Simply put, Bizzard is the only company that has any sort of track record of success with competitively viable RTS games. No other developer comes close.
Ultimately, while KeSPA might be able to ensure the survival of Esports through SCBW, it is both incapable of, and has no incentive to ensure its growth, for two reasons. Firstly, as much as we hate seeing it as an argument, SCBW is old. A large crowd of gamers and potential viewers dismiss it because of this fact. Secondly, KeSPA has no interest in promoting Starcraft outside of Korea. It has had plenty of opportunity to do so, but has not made use of those opportunities, likely for lack of potential profit.
Might Blizzard kill Esports? Yes. But frankly, I'd rather take the risk of letting Blizzard manage things and have the potential for it to be much bigger. As it stands, KeSPA would certainly allow Esports to survive, but ultimately, it's never going to grow that much in their hands.
|
On April 29 2010 07:32 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2010 04:52 nimoraca wrote:
Yes, but it never came even close to popularity of BW. Maprigging scandal was the last drop. It was already downhill even before that.
The discussion of WC3 was in response to your claim that KeSPA could find another competitive RTS if it so desired and that it doesn't need Blizzard. The point was that there has only been one RTS other than Starcraft that is even worth considering as far as competitive success, and it's also a Blizzard game. Simply put, Bizzard is the only company that has any sort of track record of success with competitively viable RTS games. No other developer comes close. Ultimately, while KeSPA might be able to ensure the survival of Esports through SCBW, it is both incapable of, and has no incentive to ensure its growth, for two reasons. Firstly, as much as we hate seeing it as an argument, SCBW is old. A large crowd of gamers and potential viewers dismiss it because of this fact. Secondly, KeSPA has no interest in promoting Starcraft outside of Korea. It has had plenty of opportunity to do so, but has not made use of those opportunities, likely for lack of potential profit. Might Blizzard kill Esports? Yes. But frankly, I'd rather take the risk of letting Blizzard manage things and have the potential for it to be much bigger. As it stands, KeSPA would certainly allow Esports to survive, but ultimately, it's never going to grow that much in their hands.
The only problem is that I don't like the vision that Blizz has for eSports. By reading the interview with Blizzard CEO Mike Morhaime where he says "Our understanding of E-sports is as a community project that increases the enjoyment of the game for the players." I'm almost certain that they don't understand what eSports really means in Korea, and what it means to people like TL netizens. Sure SC2 will end up being popular in the US and Europe, but will it achieve what SCBW achieved in Korea. I'm afraid not. After 10 years of watching competitive SCBW at an unbelievable level of skill, I can't just return to watching players that play SC2 just for fun or at a semi pro level, with a tournament now and then. I need those 12-14 hour a day practicing monsters.
|
well, if blizzard is unable to establish starcraft 2 in Korea, then starcraft 2 will never be as popular as starcraft 1. i don't think there is any game as popular to have tournaments on such a large scale like starcraft except for maybe counterstrike.
even if blizzard doesn't make money from collaboration with e-sports, e-sports can provide huge promotions for starcraft 2 and possibly incent more koreans to purchase starcraft 2
|
I hope they can work together somehow. Although i still think Blizzard still has the upperhand since it is their product. At least this time they might be able to charge tickets at finals venues and finally make a real good profit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
