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On April 26 2010 05:52 shalafi wrote:Uh? The fact that they didn't accept ActivisionBlizzard's demands (which seem pretty abusive to me, since they demand the ability to ask any amount at any time) doesn't mean they wouldn't accept any demand. If you were going to invest a lot to make SC2 popular and televised, would you accept that terms? That ActivisionBlizzard, at any moment, can ask for any amount or you'll have to cancel the tournament? Sincerely, I wouldn't. That would be a very irresponsible action.
>>블리자드는 그동안 ‘스타2’를 이용해 게임대회를 개최하거나 방송을 중계할 경우 자사의 허락을 받아야 할 뿐만 아니라 저작권료를 지불해야 한다고 주장해 왔다.
Blizzard has been using Starcraft 2 to state that whenever a gaming tournament is held, or whenever matches are aired on TV, not only do users need to gain permission from blizzard, but also need to pay royalties to Blizzard
my impression my be incorrect due to translating issues but to me it seems like they don't want to be paying any royalties.
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This whole thing is so ridiculous. The government of a WTO member state is backing up a organization that is so obviously violating GATT agreements. Respect to Blizzard for trying to negotiate with basically a pirate company for three years and trying to beat the corrupt korean system.
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United States33486 Posts
I think people should keep something very important things in mind when they assess what KeSPA has done for e-sports.
OnGameNet and MBCGame were running Starcraft tourneys perfectly fine for four years before KeSPA came into place. All of the early pioneering and laying of the foundations was done by the TV companies, the very early Pro-game teams (no big corporate sponsors for most of them, many of them were really quite poor), and the progamers who stuck through it when there was barely any money.
After it became apparent that E-sports had a chance of having a viable mid-term future, KeSPA came into play. KeSPA is a strange organization by the way, it's more accurate to call it the "E-sports Team OWNER's association," as it's controlled by the interests of the pro-game teams (the NFL, MLB, NBA are ostensible different, tho one could say they cater to the owners to a fault).
KeSPA's primary creation is the pro-league, not exactly the most original idea, but part of their vision to make Starcraft a team centric sport. The only league they actually operate is the proleague, the OSL and MSL are just tournaments they officially recognize. Five day proleague weeks is part of their strategy to make proleague the important league (and in many ways it is).
KeSPA's gutsiest and most reckless move was when they tried to sell the broadcasting rights of their Starcraft leagues. Essentially, they were making OGN and MBCGame pay to broadcast the content they had created without KeSPA's help years ago, and without any design to pay Blizzard any royalties for the direct profit they would be making off their game.
Anyway, some kind of organization was always going to be needed, but KeSPA is a very incompetent and selfish incarnation 
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On April 26 2010 05:59 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2010 05:52 shalafi wrote:kespa wants to give blizzard NO SHARE in that profit. Uh? The fact that they didn't accept ActivisionBlizzard's demands (which seem pretty abusive to me, since they demand the ability to ask any amount at any time) doesn't mean they wouldn't accept any demand. If you were going to invest a lot to make SC2 popular and televised, would you accept that terms? That ActivisionBlizzard, at any moment, can ask for any amount or you'll have to cancel the tournament? Sincerely, I wouldn't. That would be a very irresponsible action. Show nested quote +>>블리자드는 그동안 ‘스타2’를 이용해 게임대회를 개최하거나 방송을 중계할 경우 자사의 허락을 받아야 할 뿐만 아니라 저작권료를 지불해야 한다고 주장해 왔다.
Blizzard has been using Starcraft 2 to state that whenever a gaming tournament is held, or whenever matches are aired on TV, not only do users need to gain permission from blizzard, but also need to pay royalties to Blizzard my impression my be incorrect due to translating issues but to me it seems like they don't want to be paying any royalties.
Hm, maybe you misquoted? What you quoted seems exactly what I was talking in my post: ActivisionBlizzard want to decide everything with absolute power.
It's obvious that KeSPA would accept to pay *some* amount. I don't think anyone knows the limit though. But it should be something like "$5000 a year". Not "whatever we want, ask us when you decide to hold a tournament".
In fact, if I'm not mistaken (I read about it here in TL a long ago, would like someone to confirm/deny this) KeSPA paid Blizzard for broadcasting rights over SC1 on Korea.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On April 26 2010 05:42 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2010 05:22 Oddysay wrote:On April 26 2010 04:35 mahnini wrote:On April 25 2010 18:21 vek wrote:On April 25 2010 18:04 mahnini wrote:
the funny thing is blizzard is actually the one taking the steps to professionalize progaming in this case and kespa is refusing because it doesn't want to lose profits. if the gaming industry starts receiving royalties for large broadcasts like the ones in korea they would be much more motivated to develop games that cater to the progaming scene aka what blizzard is trying to do with sc2. What steps have they taken? All I have seen is Blizzard trying to limit what people can do with the game so that they make more money (no lan, region realm lock (how they hell does this help competition)). Blizzard has done nothing for esports, it was Blizzard itself that destroyed WoW's competitive scene when they forced a major tournament to use a new completely imbalanced patch and it has never recovered. Remember it is barely the same company that made Brood War and they haven't made a decent game since Diablo 2, Activision Blizzard likes money and they do not care about whether or not foreign esports is a sucess. This is why you see them trying to latch on to an already successful model in Korea and milk it for free money rather than creating a foreign scene. If Blizzard actually cared we would see a Blizzard Starleague USA but no, they don't want to take risks or try to improve the foreign scene. All they want is money, which is fine, but don't fall into the trap that Blizzards involvement in the pro scene will help SC2. I don't particularly like KeSPA either but in this case I believe they are the lesser of the two evils. the mere idea that blizzard is designing a game that is meant to be played in progaming circuits is a nice start. what blizzard is doing is asking for it's share of the pie in broadcasting rights. it would be completely and utterly stupid of blizzard to organize a large national "starleague". that isn't what blizzard does, that's like asking kespa to balance games. you can call it blizzard taking advantage of kespa all you want but the fact of the matter is unless game developers are able to reap the benefits of their work, most of them aren't going to design a game to last 10+ years and remain fresh and competitive. what you'll get are throw away games that have sequels and updated graphics every year like we see on consoles. it's not like kespa has a say in this anyway. blizzard controls sc2 broadcasting rights and there is no way kespa can go to court and try to strip them of this. it's up to them to negotiate terms that blizzard wants to accept and blizzard has every right to refuse if they feel they aren't getting a fair share. blizzard are not designing sc2 for the pro gamer circuits.... what you smoke ? so far they try to make the game noob friendly for anyone to play , and get the more people they can . they dont care about the e-sport , they care about how many people will play and buy the game and they aim for the casual players . kespa dont make that much in broadcasting and why blizzard should get what they ask for ? they ask for way too much ( do you know what they actualy ask for before say that ? ) , they should get what kespa want to give them or ask for something fair and stop here . and are you serious about saying blizzard should not do anything for e-sport ? if they dont want anything to do with e-sport and do nothing about e-sport why they should get any money from e-sport then ? they dont only ask for broadcasting right too . and blizzard game are able to get the benefits of their work , dont worry about that , they make way more that the money they have put for create the game , dont worry . they are not going to shut down because they dont get the 0.0001 % kespa would give them. blizzard just want to rule anything that have to do with starcraft 2 , if they cant get it they just destroy it complety and they want to be sure that no one win anything from their game they create ip right , right ? and why do you think blizzard only ask for a fair share ? they ask for way more that a fair share . and sorry again but like someone say that 90 % kespa and the korean who balanced the game for blizzard since the start . and right now , who do you think realy work for balance starcraft 2 ? bizzard ? beta tester . what i'm getting from the first paragraph is that you think blizzards demands are too harsh and that kespa makes no profit from propagating progaming. kespa is not some altruistic organization who make sunshine and rainbows for the progaming scene. they are a company that seeks profit. blizzard is asking for a share of that profit. kespa wants to give blizzard NO SHARE in that profit.
I doubt Kespa is some organization that makes money. I remember reading that all pro teams, including OGN and MBC make up the Kespa Board of Directors. But the owners of all the pro teams are also the main sponsors of Korean starcraft. So it can be inferred that Kespa is made up of the main sponsors of starcraft.
Kespa does not sell progaming merchandise, they do not sell make money from charging admission to esports events. The sponsors pay for everything because they hope that because kids see their logo so much on tv, they will want to buy a SKT or KTF cell phone, lecaf shoes, CJ snacks, and a Samsung MP3 player.
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On April 26 2010 06:12 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2010 05:42 mahnini wrote:On April 26 2010 05:22 Oddysay wrote:On April 26 2010 04:35 mahnini wrote:On April 25 2010 18:21 vek wrote:On April 25 2010 18:04 mahnini wrote:
the funny thing is blizzard is actually the one taking the steps to professionalize progaming in this case and kespa is refusing because it doesn't want to lose profits. if the gaming industry starts receiving royalties for large broadcasts like the ones in korea they would be much more motivated to develop games that cater to the progaming scene aka what blizzard is trying to do with sc2. What steps have they taken? All I have seen is Blizzard trying to limit what people can do with the game so that they make more money (no lan, region realm lock (how they hell does this help competition)). Blizzard has done nothing for esports, it was Blizzard itself that destroyed WoW's competitive scene when they forced a major tournament to use a new completely imbalanced patch and it has never recovered. Remember it is barely the same company that made Brood War and they haven't made a decent game since Diablo 2, Activision Blizzard likes money and they do not care about whether or not foreign esports is a sucess. This is why you see them trying to latch on to an already successful model in Korea and milk it for free money rather than creating a foreign scene. If Blizzard actually cared we would see a Blizzard Starleague USA but no, they don't want to take risks or try to improve the foreign scene. All they want is money, which is fine, but don't fall into the trap that Blizzards involvement in the pro scene will help SC2. I don't particularly like KeSPA either but in this case I believe they are the lesser of the two evils. the mere idea that blizzard is designing a game that is meant to be played in progaming circuits is a nice start. what blizzard is doing is asking for it's share of the pie in broadcasting rights. it would be completely and utterly stupid of blizzard to organize a large national "starleague". that isn't what blizzard does, that's like asking kespa to balance games. you can call it blizzard taking advantage of kespa all you want but the fact of the matter is unless game developers are able to reap the benefits of their work, most of them aren't going to design a game to last 10+ years and remain fresh and competitive. what you'll get are throw away games that have sequels and updated graphics every year like we see on consoles. it's not like kespa has a say in this anyway. blizzard controls sc2 broadcasting rights and there is no way kespa can go to court and try to strip them of this. it's up to them to negotiate terms that blizzard wants to accept and blizzard has every right to refuse if they feel they aren't getting a fair share. blizzard are not designing sc2 for the pro gamer circuits.... what you smoke ? so far they try to make the game noob friendly for anyone to play , and get the more people they can . they dont care about the e-sport , they care about how many people will play and buy the game and they aim for the casual players . kespa dont make that much in broadcasting and why blizzard should get what they ask for ? they ask for way too much ( do you know what they actualy ask for before say that ? ) , they should get what kespa want to give them or ask for something fair and stop here . and are you serious about saying blizzard should not do anything for e-sport ? if they dont want anything to do with e-sport and do nothing about e-sport why they should get any money from e-sport then ? they dont only ask for broadcasting right too . and blizzard game are able to get the benefits of their work , dont worry about that , they make way more that the money they have put for create the game , dont worry . they are not going to shut down because they dont get the 0.0001 % kespa would give them. blizzard just want to rule anything that have to do with starcraft 2 , if they cant get it they just destroy it complety and they want to be sure that no one win anything from their game they create ip right , right ? and why do you think blizzard only ask for a fair share ? they ask for way more that a fair share . and sorry again but like someone say that 90 % kespa and the korean who balanced the game for blizzard since the start . and right now , who do you think realy work for balance starcraft 2 ? bizzard ? beta tester . what i'm getting from the first paragraph is that you think blizzards demands are too harsh and that kespa makes no profit from propagating progaming. kespa is not some altruistic organization who make sunshine and rainbows for the progaming scene. they are a company that seeks profit. blizzard is asking for a share of that profit. kespa wants to give blizzard NO SHARE in that profit. I doubt Kespa is some organization that makes money. I remember reading that all pro teams, including OGN and MBC make up the Kespa Board of Directors. But the owners of all the pro teams are also the main sponsors of Korean starcraft. So it can be inferred that Kespa is made up of the main sponsors of starcraft. Kespa does not sell progaming merchandise, they do not sell make money from charging admission to esports events. The sponsors pay for everything because they hope that because kids see their logo so much on tv, they will want to buy a SKT or KTF cell phone, lecaf shoes, CJ snacks, and a Samsung MP3 player.
so basically, kespa does make profit. it just doesn't seem like it because kespa is essentially a dummy corporation.
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On April 25 2010 12:54 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:
This is PERFECT for a fairly casual player such as myself who doesn't give two shits about the pro scene in Korea. Kespa acted unreasonably and Blizzard responded in the way they should have - by pulling out completely.
We'll end up with more English language tournaments and commentating. Sounds great to me.
What are you, stupid? I keep checking your post count and expect it to be 1 or something.. What on earth have you been posting about all this time?
the pro scene in Korea IS the starcraft scene. They are the pillar that all foreign scenes lean on. The moment you pull out the Korean scene, everything will collapse. Korea is the ONLY place where starcraft and e-sports was/is a legit enterprise. If they, as the precedent, fail, then i guarantee e-sports will fail.
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On April 26 2010 05:59 mahnini wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2010 05:52 shalafi wrote:kespa wants to give blizzard NO SHARE in that profit. Uh? The fact that they didn't accept ActivisionBlizzard's demands (which seem pretty abusive to me, since they demand the ability to ask any amount at any time) doesn't mean they wouldn't accept any demand. If you were going to invest a lot to make SC2 popular and televised, would you accept that terms? That ActivisionBlizzard, at any moment, can ask for any amount or you'll have to cancel the tournament? Sincerely, I wouldn't. That would be a very irresponsible action. Show nested quote +>>블리자드는 그동안 ‘스타2’를 이용해 게임대회를 개최하거나 방송을 중계할 경우 자사의 허락을 받아야 할 뿐만 아니라 저작권료를 지불해야 한다고 주장해 왔다.
Blizzard has been using Starcraft 2 to state that whenever a gaming tournament is held, or whenever matches are aired on TV, not only do users need to gain permission from blizzard, but also need to pay royalties to Blizzard my impression my be incorrect due to translating issues but to me it seems like they don't want to be paying any royalties.
That is impossible to say if we don't know the details. How big royalties Blizzard wanted, did they even wanted to define figures or just have a right to take as much as they would like? The terms could be impossible to accept for Kespa for what we know.
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Russian Federation405 Posts
On April 26 2010 06:06 Waxangel wrote:I think people should keep something very important things in mind when they assess what KeSPA has done for e-sports. OnGameNet and MBCGame were running Starcraft tourneys perfectly fine for four years before KeSPA came into place. All of the early pioneering and laying of the foundations was done by the TV companies, the very early Pro-game teams (no big corporate sponsors for most of them, many of them were really quite poor), and the progamers who stuck through it when there was barely any money. After it became apparent that E-sports had a chance of having a viable mid-term future, KeSPA came into play. KeSPA is a strange organization by the way, it's more accurate to call it the "E-sports Team OWNER's association," as it's controlled by the interests of the pro-game teams (the NFL, MLB, NBA are ostensible different, tho one could say they cater to the owners to a fault). KeSPA's primary creation is the pro-league, not exactly the most original idea, but part of their vision to make Starcraft a team centric sport. The only league they actually operate is the proleague, the OSL and MSL are just tournaments they officially recognize. Five day proleague weeks is part of their strategy to make proleague the important league (and in many ways it is). KeSPA's gutsiest and most reckless move was when they tried to sell the broadcasting rights of their Starcraft leagues. Essentially, they were making OGN and MBCGame pay to broadcast the content they had created without KeSPA's help years ago, and without any design to pay Blizzard any royalties for the direct profit they would be making off their game. Anyway, some kind of organization was always going to be needed, but KeSPA is a very incompetent and selfish incarnation
You are wrong.
KeSPA started back in 2000 — in August 2001 was the first KPGA Tour and the first KPGA ranking was published in November 2001. (KeSPA was named KPGA up to 2002.)
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On April 26 2010 06:19 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2010 12:54 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:
This is PERFECT for a fairly casual player such as myself who doesn't give two shits about the pro scene in Korea. Kespa acted unreasonably and Blizzard responded in the way they should have - by pulling out completely.
We'll end up with more English language tournaments and commentating. Sounds great to me. What are you, stupid? I keep checking your post count and expect it to be 1 or something.. What on earth have you been posting about all this time? the pro scene in Korea IS the starcraft scene. They are the pillar that all foreign scenes lean on. The moment you pull out the Korean scene, everything will collapse. Korea is the ONLY place where starcraft and e-sports was/is a legit enterprise. If they, as the precedent, fail, then i guarantee e-sports will fail.
I wouldn't say it will die for sure, but its going to be a big big regression if KESPA does fall. They made eSport into a legit mainstream thing in Korea, whereas in NA/EU its kinda laughed at. Most people when they first started watching proleague must've chuckled at how absurd the whole thing was, but overtime due to how well things were ran it grows on you.
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Imagine if Adobe was claiming the rights to everything you create with Photoshop. Wouldn't that be funny.
And for all of you claiming that KeSPA is some big evil company, you all just need to watch the South Park episode about Wall Mart. The point is, there is always going to be a company/organization that manages the leagues. You can call it any way you want (maybe Blizzard), it want change anything. KeSPA was never some bully who took over the Korean pro scene from "good guys". It was founded by big sponsors and the teams.
Why would KeSPA even need Starcraft II. It has BW. There are tons of RTS games, whose authors would be more than happy to see their game being played professionally in Korea (cause they would sell millions of copies). Starcraft II still has a lot to prove. Why do you all immediately think that Starcraft II is the best RTS ever and the pro scene can not go on without it. Starcraft II Beta is popular only because SC:BW was such a great game.
Even if Blizzard and KeSPA could come to an agreement that still doesn't mean Starcraft II would take over the pro scene. More likely it would end up the same way WC3 did.
And lastly, SC2 is NOT going to become a professional sport in the US or Europe. There were already games that were extremely popular in the west like Counter Strike, or for example Dota now. But that is still light years away form pro gaming scene.
All of you that do not care about SC:BW pro scene in Korea... then why are you here (on TL.net).
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And also, Blizzard not implementing LAN play in SC2, it just tells you how much Blizzard really cares about players.
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On April 26 2010 06:19 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2010 12:54 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:
This is PERFECT for a fairly casual player such as myself who doesn't give two shits about the pro scene in Korea. Kespa acted unreasonably and Blizzard responded in the way they should have - by pulling out completely.
We'll end up with more English language tournaments and commentating. Sounds great to me. What are you, stupid? I keep checking your post count and expect it to be 1 or something.. What on earth have you been posting about all this time? the pro scene in Korea IS the starcraft scene. They are the pillar that all foreign scenes lean on. The moment you pull out the Korean scene, everything will collapse. Korea is the ONLY place where starcraft and e-sports was/is a legit enterprise. If they, as the precedent, fail, then i guarantee e-sports will fail.
what about europe where many players in other games make 50k+ a year in salary? ever heard of sk or fnatic or mym or mouz? hell eg 1.6 players make a decent salary in the US.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 26 2010 06:50 nimoraca wrote:
Imagine if Adobe was claiming the rights to everything you create with Photoshop. Wouldn't that be funny.
There's a difference between things that are explicitly outlined in the ToS/EULA, and things that aren't. There's also a difference between Adobe claiming rights to everything you create with Photoshop, and Blizzard claiming rights from an organization that's using their software for profit.
On April 26 2010 06:50 nimoraca wrote:
And for all of you claiming that KeSPA is some big evil company, you all just need to watch the South Park episode about Wall Mart. The point is, there is always going to be a company/organization that manages the leagues. You can call it any way you want (maybe Blizzard), it want change anything. KeSPA was never some bully who took over the Korean pro scene from "good guys". It was founded by big sponsors and the teams.
The Starcraft scene was founded by teams both sponsored and unsponsored, and broadcasting companies like OGN and MBC. KeSPA has shown very clearly in the past that they do not care about the well-being of either of those organizations. The free agency scandal displayed a lack of interest in the players' well being, and the selling broadcast rights fiasco displayed a lack of respect for the broadcasting companies.
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well, kespa is dead now...great ...
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United States33486 Posts
On April 26 2010 06:33 nonduc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2010 06:06 Waxangel wrote:I think people should keep something very important things in mind when they assess what KeSPA has done for e-sports. OnGameNet and MBCGame were running Starcraft tourneys perfectly fine for four years before KeSPA came into place. All of the early pioneering and laying of the foundations was done by the TV companies, the very early Pro-game teams (no big corporate sponsors for most of them, many of them were really quite poor), and the progamers who stuck through it when there was barely any money. After it became apparent that E-sports had a chance of having a viable mid-term future, KeSPA came into play. KeSPA is a strange organization by the way, it's more accurate to call it the "E-sports Team OWNER's association," as it's controlled by the interests of the pro-game teams (the NFL, MLB, NBA are ostensible different, tho one could say they cater to the owners to a fault). KeSPA's primary creation is the pro-league, not exactly the most original idea, but part of their vision to make Starcraft a team centric sport. The only league they actually operate is the proleague, the OSL and MSL are just tournaments they officially recognize. Five day proleague weeks is part of their strategy to make proleague the important league (and in many ways it is). KeSPA's gutsiest and most reckless move was when they tried to sell the broadcasting rights of their Starcraft leagues. Essentially, they were making OGN and MBCGame pay to broadcast the content they had created without KeSPA's help years ago, and without any design to pay Blizzard any royalties for the direct profit they would be making off their game. Anyway, some kind of organization was always going to be needed, but KeSPA is a very incompetent and selfish incarnation You are wrong. KeSPA started back in 2000 — in August 2001 was the first KPGA Tour and the first KPGA ranking was published in November 2001. (KeSPA was named KPGA up to 2002.)
KPGA can barely be called the previous incarnation of KeSPA, enough so that in practice it's irrelevant.
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Russian Federation405 Posts
On April 26 2010 07:12 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2010 06:33 nonduc wrote:On April 26 2010 06:06 Waxangel wrote:I think people should keep something very important things in mind when they assess what KeSPA has done for e-sports. OnGameNet and MBCGame were running Starcraft tourneys perfectly fine for four years before KeSPA came into place. All of the early pioneering and laying of the foundations was done by the TV companies, the very early Pro-game teams (no big corporate sponsors for most of them, many of them were really quite poor), and the progamers who stuck through it when there was barely any money. After it became apparent that E-sports had a chance of having a viable mid-term future, KeSPA came into play. KeSPA is a strange organization by the way, it's more accurate to call it the "E-sports Team OWNER's association," as it's controlled by the interests of the pro-game teams (the NFL, MLB, NBA are ostensible different, tho one could say they cater to the owners to a fault). KeSPA's primary creation is the pro-league, not exactly the most original idea, but part of their vision to make Starcraft a team centric sport. The only league they actually operate is the proleague, the OSL and MSL are just tournaments they officially recognize. Five day proleague weeks is part of their strategy to make proleague the important league (and in many ways it is). KeSPA's gutsiest and most reckless move was when they tried to sell the broadcasting rights of their Starcraft leagues. Essentially, they were making OGN and MBCGame pay to broadcast the content they had created without KeSPA's help years ago, and without any design to pay Blizzard any royalties for the direct profit they would be making off their game. Anyway, some kind of organization was always going to be needed, but KeSPA is a very incompetent and selfish incarnation You are wrong. KeSPA started back in 2000 — in August 2001 was the first KPGA Tour and the first KPGA ranking was published in November 2001. (KeSPA was named KPGA up to 2002.) KPGA can barely be called the previous incarnation of KeSPA, enough so that in practice it's irrelevant.
In 2002 Korea Pro Game Association (KPGA) was just renamed in Korea e-Sports Association (KeSPA). 
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On April 26 2010 07:04 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2010 06:50 nimoraca wrote:
Imagine if Adobe was claiming the rights to everything you create with Photoshop. Wouldn't that be funny. There's a difference between things that are explicitly outlined in the ToS/EULA, and things that aren't. There's also a difference between Adobe claiming rights to everything you create with Photoshop, and Blizzard claiming rights from an organization that's using their software for profit. Show nested quote +On April 26 2010 06:50 nimoraca wrote:
And for all of you claiming that KeSPA is some big evil company, you all just need to watch the South Park episode about Wall Mart. The point is, there is always going to be a company/organization that manages the leagues. You can call it any way you want (maybe Blizzard), it want change anything. KeSPA was never some bully who took over the Korean pro scene from "good guys". It was founded by big sponsors and the teams. The Starcraft scene was founded by teams both sponsored and unsponsored, and broadcasting companies like OGN and MBC. KeSPA has shown very clearly in the past that they do not care about the well-being of either of those organizations. The free agency scandal displayed a lack of interest in the players' well being, and the selling broadcast rights fiasco displayed a lack of respect for the broadcasting companies.
Hollywood studios are using Photoshop for profit. People don't come to the matches to watch starcraft. They come to watch their favorite players and teams. I personally am here (on TL.net) to watch Korean progamers, not the game itself. The game is not the content here. The matches are.
The other point, about KeSPA not caring about well-being of the players, well guess what, its the teams not caring about their players, not KeSPA. KeSPA is just an organization supported by all the pro teams.
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United States33486 Posts
On April 26 2010 07:21 nonduc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2010 07:12 Waxangel wrote:On April 26 2010 06:33 nonduc wrote:On April 26 2010 06:06 Waxangel wrote:I think people should keep something very important things in mind when they assess what KeSPA has done for e-sports. OnGameNet and MBCGame were running Starcraft tourneys perfectly fine for four years before KeSPA came into place. All of the early pioneering and laying of the foundations was done by the TV companies, the very early Pro-game teams (no big corporate sponsors for most of them, many of them were really quite poor), and the progamers who stuck through it when there was barely any money. After it became apparent that E-sports had a chance of having a viable mid-term future, KeSPA came into play. KeSPA is a strange organization by the way, it's more accurate to call it the "E-sports Team OWNER's association," as it's controlled by the interests of the pro-game teams (the NFL, MLB, NBA are ostensible different, tho one could say they cater to the owners to a fault). KeSPA's primary creation is the pro-league, not exactly the most original idea, but part of their vision to make Starcraft a team centric sport. The only league they actually operate is the proleague, the OSL and MSL are just tournaments they officially recognize. Five day proleague weeks is part of their strategy to make proleague the important league (and in many ways it is). KeSPA's gutsiest and most reckless move was when they tried to sell the broadcasting rights of their Starcraft leagues. Essentially, they were making OGN and MBCGame pay to broadcast the content they had created without KeSPA's help years ago, and without any design to pay Blizzard any royalties for the direct profit they would be making off their game. Anyway, some kind of organization was always going to be needed, but KeSPA is a very incompetent and selfish incarnation You are wrong. KeSPA started back in 2000 — in August 2001 was the first KPGA Tour and the first KPGA ranking was published in November 2001. (KeSPA was named KPGA up to 2002.) KPGA can barely be called the previous incarnation of KeSPA, enough so that in practice it's irrelevant. In 2002 Korea Pro Game Association (KPGA) was just renamed in Korea e-Sports Association (KeSPA).
I did say in practice :o
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What I really wanted to say is, IF Adobe was requesting such a thing in their EULA, no one would ever use Photoshop to create something of commercial value. That is the same thing that will happen to SC2 if Blizzard doesn't back off.
Who would even think about organizing a league, paying the players, bringing the sponsors, bringing the spectators, paying Blizzard. taking all the risks and in the end, not being the owner of the games played.
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EPT
