[MSL Spoiler] His Overwhelming Advantage - Page 23

On January 25 2010 15:50 kyophan wrote:
I was waiting for this to turn into a "I'm better than you, your wrong" ego battle. Start the 1v1's.

On January 25 2010 15:24 kingjames01 wrote:



To be fair, I never stated my opinion on the matter about whether or not a rematch should have been played and/or how the decision affected Flash's performance. To be honest I was cheering for Jaedong but I was pissed as hell when the blackout and the ruling occured. It felt like Jaedong had been cheated out of his impending victory in game 3 and I knew beforehand that Flash was going to lose game 4 because of it... The situation was crappy and unfair, but it happened. So, I don't know why you have to insinuate things about my opinion but I'd appreciate it if you weren't "already so set in your ways about what happened that there's no real reason to argue, but [honestly] this is really funny seeing [dumb] posts like this."

On January 25 2010 16:03 Ver wrote:


There's absolutely nothing wrong with posting your opinion. Yours seems like quite a reasonable one too. But from a high level player's perspective seeing people post things like "If you disagree then your level of play is probably too low to even comment properly or your opinions are blinded by the outrage felt from a sense of being cheated" and the quote above is hilarious.

The part about people being set in their ways comes from looking at the poor responses to Fakesteve's and Idra's numerous posts here and elsewhere.

But okay we'll give it a try and see if you are right about people being open minded. Let me offer a hypothetical scenario that is very very possible where Flash is in a distinctively better position:

For all we know Flash had just loaded up a dropship at his nat and was regrouping at his mineral to time an attack at 7 while dropping 4 simultaneously and he had his 3 vessels +1 newly made with 70 energy. Then suddenly it becomes nearly equal resources and if Flash keeps his vessels alive he has a huge advantage again.

Jaedong had for certain 2 heavily damaged ultras + 1 full one running from his nat, 2 defilers, and a handful of lings + whatever larvae he was making and who knows when that production cycle finishes or whether it had all lings or ultras too (he was even making drones at 7). Jaedong's main and nat were oversaturated all game and are going to dry up very quickly but again we don't know how soon; he's already running off of 7 on gas and very soon on mins too. Flash has who knows how many marines but with that many medics and the weakened ultras all it takes is a slightly errant engagement and Jaedong dies or just a swarm standoff while flash kills 4 with a dropship to completely reverse it. We don't even know what was mining with at 4; the commentator said 1 drone which may or may not have been right but Jaedong's nat/main were really oversaturated, making it quite possible. If he did indeed have almost nothing mining at 4 then Jaedong was most certainly in a much weaker position than people were giving him credit for since not only is his long term output a lot weaker but his reinforcements at the crucial point would be basically all lings.

As you can hopefully see, without the replay there is simply so much that cannot be known.

Now that's a pretty bleak picture and it's quite possible Jaedong has an ultra or two almost done and plague, full defiler energy not just part, plus more lings coming in through the nydus for energy. That's the thing though, nobody can know without the replay and it's all meaningless speculation from the vod. Yeah Jaedong had an advantage but there's still a lot of what ifs that make a certain conclusion impossible.

But he could camp his 3rd with medic walls

But he could irradiate the defilers while dropping.

If Flash was regrouping at his nat.

JaeDong's reinforcements would be basically all lings.

On January 25 2010 23:02 dmfg wrote:
There are really 2 arguments here - "how should KeSPA have made their decision" and "given a decision making process, what conclusion should KeSPA have come to ".

Looks like the main camps for the first, the decision making process, are

1. use a judgement call with no pre-defined line on what the threshhold for awarding a win is (what they appear to have done)

2. have a pre-instated rule that any game that ends without a GG gets replayed (not an option in this case since this rule doesn't exist)

3. always award the game to whoever is "ahead" based on some pre-defined criteria (again, not an option in this case since this doesn't exist)

3 just sounds stupid. 2 would probably be more fair if this policy were in place to begin with - but since their standard policy appears to be 1, I don't think it would have been fair to switch their policy just for this one game.

I'm not even going to try and argue what the right decision should be, even assuming that they must decide using policy 1..

On January 26 2010 00:39 No_eL wrote:
Kespa judges just take 30 minutes to make a decision, and maybe less than that, they was without replay, and just dont find the better show solution, its not only a game, was thousdands of people watching the finals, and they ruined all. A rematch, (maybe with map decision of JD, because of the possible advantage) would be a better option than tear apart the final, they showed a lack of improvisation and wits.

On January 26 2010 00:39 No_eL wrote:
Kwark, you dont want to read other opinion

On January 26 2010 02:04 Tien wrote:
Is that unfair? Sure as hell it's unfair for Flash. But does it matter? No it does not matter, the rules are the rules.


There's nothing more to argue.


Case closed.

On January 26 2010 03:30 StarcraftMan wrote:


I hate to say, but that is quite an obnoxious comment with respect to Flash. For starters, Flash is potentially giving up his later career aspirations (ie. University) to pursue his current profession. The time he spends training towards Starcraft could possibly be used for his studies and future career. For all we know, professional esports could possibly fade away if people lose interest in Starcraft and Starcraft 2 does not resurrect the professional esports scene. There is no guarantee he will be able to make a living off of Starcraft in 5 years time.

Thus, if he is sacrificing his career, and his family is allowing him to sacrifice his career, then it all due respect, rulings like this from KESPA need to be made as fair as possible as money is on the line - money that feeds Flash, and money that feeds his family.

Do you know why his dad was so angry? His dad knew perfectly well that they lost tens of thousands of dollar on that one ruling - and that was money that the family could use. Add on top that top players like Boxer and July could only stay on top for a few years in their prime, and it hurts that much more if they cannot make as much money as they can while they are in their prime.

We're not talking about filthy rich Major League Baseball players here that make millions and could probably lose a couple of million here or there. We're talking about esport athletes that already earn less than University graduates and even a good professional Starcraft player may not earn enough financially to help his family.

On January 26 2010 03:30 StarcraftMan wrote:


I hate to say, but that is quite an obnoxious comment with respect to Flash. For starters, Flash is potentially giving up his later career aspirations (ie. University) to pursue his current profession. The time he spends training towards Starcraft could possibly be used for his studies and future career. For all we know, professional esports could possibly fade away if people lose interest in Starcraft and Starcraft 2 does not resurrect the professional esports scene. There is no guarantee he will be able to make a living off of Starcraft in 5 years time.

Thus, if he is sacrificing his career, and his family is allowing him to sacrifice his career, then it all due respect, rulings like this from KESPA need to be made as fair as possible as money is on the line - money that feeds Flash, and money that feeds his family.

Do you know why his dad was so angry? His dad knew perfectly well that they lost tens of thousands of dollar on that one ruling - and that was money that the family could use. Add on top that top players like Boxer and July could only stay on top for a few years in their prime, and it hurts that much more if they cannot make as much money as they can while they are in their prime.

We're not talking about filthy rich Major League Baseball players here that make millions and could probably lose a couple of million here or there. We're talking about esport athletes that already earn less than University graduates and even a good professional Starcraft player may not earn enough financially to help his family.