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On January 24 2010 21:09 samachking wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 20:54 InFdude wrote:
Whats with all the 4th game bullcrap?Flash tried fast aggresion , JD had a 9 pool . The end. nonono That game does not count because Flash was so pissed that he changed his bo at the last minute because he wanted to throw away 40k dollars by dropping the game. JD and Flash were so shaken up by that incident that they decided impromptu to change builds for a match they prepared for a week. A 7rax is all in, and there is no possible follow up other than a quick sunk break if you cant bunker rush, Flash was fucked, went all in and didnt even scan the nat before pushing in because he had no scans left, he pushed in so fast and he knew it was over that he didnt even wait for the 2nd medic to come in, he was hoping with all his heart that JD only build 1-2 sunks. There is almost no way he would get ahead of JD after a bo deficit like that, whether the fiasco happened or not that's probably how the game would've turned out
Whats tells you that they both changed it? Maybe Flash wanted to cheese on that map since the beginning.
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I think what many people seem to miss is that if the game had blacked out earlier when Flash was in the lead, then KESPA could have awarded Flash the win. The fact that it blacked out later was unfortunate for Flash. THis becomes a circular debate of - oh, it blacked out now, so we give it to Flash or oh, it blacked out now so we give it to JD.
The point being, they shouldn't have awarded the win just because a player had an advantage.
Another perspective to look at is KT walked out after KESPA made their decision. That meant the coach and the team believed Flash had a chance. If the game was 99% a forgone conclusion, I don't think KT and Flash's coach would have demonstrated against the ruling. They would have accepted it, and Flash would have accepted it, and even Flash's dad would have accepted it.
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On January 25 2010 03:46 Gumbo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2010 21:09 samachking wrote:On January 24 2010 20:54 InFdude wrote:
Whats with all the 4th game bullcrap?Flash tried fast aggresion , JD had a 9 pool . The end. nonono That game does not count because Flash was so pissed that he changed his bo at the last minute because he wanted to throw away 40k dollars by dropping the game. JD and Flash were so shaken up by that incident that they decided impromptu to change builds for a match they prepared for a week. A 7rax is all in, and there is no possible follow up other than a quick sunk break if you cant bunker rush, Flash was fucked, went all in and didnt even scan the nat before pushing in because he had no scans left, he pushed in so fast and he knew it was over that he didnt even wait for the 2nd medic to come in, he was hoping with all his heart that JD only build 1-2 sunks. There is almost no way he would get ahead of JD after a bo deficit like that, whether the fiasco happened or not that's probably how the game would've turned out Whats tells you that they both changed it? Maybe Flash wanted to cheese on that map since the beginning.
I was being sarcastic in case you didn't notice + read the last sentence.
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United States335 Posts
On January 25 2010 04:11 StarcraftMan wrote:
I think what many people seem to miss is that if the game had blacked out earlier when Flash was in the lead, then KESPA could have awarded Flash the win. The fact that it blacked out later was unfortunate for Flash. THis becomes a circular debate of - oh, it blacked out now, so we give it to Flash or oh, it blacked out now so we give it to JD.
The point being, they shouldn't have awarded the win just because a player had an advantage.
Another perspective to look at is KT walked out after KESPA made their decision. That meant the coach and the team believed Flash had a chance. If the game was 99% a forgone conclusion, I don't think KT and Flash's coach would have demonstrated against the ruling. They would have accepted it, and Flash would have accepted it, and even Flash's dad would have accepted it.
The difference, I think, is that earlier in the game it was still far from over. Even when one player was at a disadvantage, both had steady income streams and standing armies. In those situations it would have been impossible to say how it might turn out. At the point when it blacked out however, Flash had almost no income or army left, and no shot of breaking JD's 7 o clock. Flash was even backing off by the end. JD, however, had map control, a healthy late game income stream, and streaming hive tech reinforcements. Flash wasn't just at a disadvantage, he was realistically out of options. That is the difference between the time of blackout and earlier in the game.
The fact that KT and Flash's Dad freaked out doesn't mean Flash realistically still had a chance. You have to look at the facts, which the OP does a good job summarizing.
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On January 25 2010 04:11 StarcraftMan wrote:
I think what many people seem to miss is that if the game had blacked out earlier when Flash was in the lead, then KESPA could have awarded Flash the win. The fact that it blacked out later was unfortunate for Flash. THis becomes a circular debate of - oh, it blacked out now, so we give it to Flash or oh, it blacked out now so we give it to JD.
The point being, they shouldn't have awarded the win just because a player had an advantage.
Another perspective to look at is KT walked out after KESPA made their decision. That meant the coach and the team believed Flash had a chance. If the game was 99% a forgone conclusion, I don't think KT and Flash's coach would have demonstrated against the ruling. They would have accepted it, and Flash would have accepted it, and even Flash's dad would have accepted it.
anything can happen in starcraft, they should have made a rematch, flash gave up on his final game. thats it thats all there is.
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I blame KesPa for not having a simple power generator for the computers in case such an event occurs. I know it was a lose/lose situation for kespa but they should be better prepared.
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On January 25 2010 04:49 Saturnize wrote:
I blame KesPa for not having a simple power generator for the computers in case such an event occurs. I know it was a lose/lose situation for kespa but they should be better prepared.
That isn't Kespa's fault, lol. Too many of you guys are blaming the wrong people, when all of this was just a fail by MBC. The games were all "finals worthy" imo. The only problem was that the epicness was ruined by the 700 people virtual studio bs and the black out in game 3.
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On January 25 2010 05:38 De4ngus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 04:49 Saturnize wrote:
I blame KesPa for not having a simple power generator for the computers in case such an event occurs. I know it was a lose/lose situation for kespa but they should be better prepared. That isn't Kespa's fault, lol. Too many of you guys are blaming the wrong people, when all of this was just a fail by MBC. The games were all "finals worthy" imo. The only problem was that the epicness was ruined by the 700 people virtual studio bs and the black out in game 3.
The thing costs $40 why shouldn't they be prepared for this? Its so simple...MBC, Kespa, whoever could of had these for games just in case a black out were to occur.
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On January 25 2010 06:00 Saturnize wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 05:38 De4ngus wrote:On January 25 2010 04:49 Saturnize wrote:
I blame KesPa for not having a simple power generator for the computers in case such an event occurs. I know it was a lose/lose situation for kespa but they should be better prepared. That isn't Kespa's fault, lol. Too many of you guys are blaming the wrong people, when all of this was just a fail by MBC. The games were all "finals worthy" imo. The only problem was that the epicness was ruined by the 700 people virtual studio bs and the black out in game 3. The thing costs $40 why shouldn't they be prepared for this? Its so simple...MBC, Kespa, whoever could of had these for games just in case a black out were to occur.
I guess power blackouts are so rare (its not the US grid, hurr^^) that noone thought of the possibility.
edit: to be serious, you cant use a backup genenerator since it needs time to kick in so you would have to run the pc's on seperate power all the time which would be way over the top imho.
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On January 25 2010 02:53 Jzerg wrote:
I assume the FPVoD's exist due to the existance of the normal game VoD. (I could be wrong here)
This might sound like a silly question but:
Is there a possibility the FPVoD's will be made available?
Who has control over them, the players or KESPA?
If it were up to Flash and JD on whether or not to release them,
I wouldn't be suprised if they shared theirs with each other already.
If they did and both agreed the situation sucked but the decision was fair, then all is well.
Who knows? we may hear about this in an interview in the future.
Either way - as they are known to be friends with each other I'm sure they've reconciled it already.
My 2 cents (which no one probably cares about, and doesn't really matter) is that the situation sucked but the decision was fair. In the final 30 seconds, JD had just rocketed ahead through some really amazing clutch play, but 2 minutes earlier you couldn't have called it either way.
If there was a re-game awarded instead, it should definitely have been on another map. It isn't about map imbalance / map statistics, it's making JD replay the map he thumbed down that would make it unfair.
Also, it's pretty terrible that the last 30 seconds of the VoD were unable to be played by the commentators. At the point where they stop, you just don't have enough info to make any kind of decision. I'm sure this roiled Flash's dad as well.
the problem is the people who dont care or listen to reason are the huge fanboys who would never listen to logic or reasoning to begin with.
it was the best decision out of a shitty situation and jaedong did have the game in the bag. 10 rines and 6 medics vs almsot 6 gas zerG? but sitting on 5 gasses? terran with min only for a third, and late one at that? gg
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Great write up motbob. A clear and unbiased analysis of the game.
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flash handled the situation well though. still smiled and shook jaedong's hand properly congratulating him. if i were flash i would have been pissed enough to throw the monitor on the floor, but then i'd feel crappy after reading this quite convincing post 
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flash did some dumbass shit game 4 cause of this
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Fact in sports. Accidental stoppage of play. 1 point lead = win.
The game is over because of stoppages. There is no what if. Whoever has the advantage wins (kespa has rules for this as well, same with MLB and soccer leagues around the world). Everything past the stoppage is pure speculation and the only fact there exists is the score (or advantage in nonscoring games) at the point of stoppage. To nullify it is to nullify the spirit of the competition and all efforts put into the game so far by both teams.
If the blackout happened 3 minutes earlier when Flash was in the lead, flash deserves the win because for the first 15 minutes he's proven to be the better player and therefore to nullify that is unfair. Same with Jaedong at 18 minutes. Had the game ended at the 15th minute, there is no guessing (what's in the next 3 minutes, jaedong might comeback and gain the advantage). Well he did in real life, but had the game ended at 15 minute mark. I don't care, Flash had the advantage, Flash wins. 18 minutes, JD had the advantage, JD wins.
Stop arguing against sports convention. Rematches are unfair unless it's a tie.
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On January 25 2010 07:23 LostWraithSC wrote:
Fact in sports. Accidental stoppage of play. 1 point lead = win.
The game is over because of stoppages. There is no what if. Whoever has the advantage wins (kespa has rules for this as well, same with MLB and soccer leagues around the world). Everything past the stoppage is pure speculation and the only fact there exists is the score (or advantage in nonscoring games) at the point of stoppage. To nullify it is to nullify the spirit of the competition and all efforts put into the game so far by both teams.
If the blackout happened 3 minutes earlier when Flash was in the lead, flash deserves the win because for the first 15 minutes he's proven to be the better player and therefore to nullify that is unfair. Same with Jaedong at 18 minutes. Had the game ended at the 15th minute, there is no guessing (what's in the next 3 minutes, jaedong might comeback and gain the advantage). Well he did in real life, but had the game ended at 15 minute mark. I don't care, Flash had the advantage, Flash wins. 18 minutes, JD had the advantage, JD wins.
Stop arguing against sports convention. Rematches are unfair unless it's a tie.
In the MLB if a game gets rained out IN A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME they resume the game on a different date regardless of who is winning at that point in the game. Unfortunately there is no auto save feature in sc.
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On January 25 2010 06:00 Saturnize wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 05:38 De4ngus wrote:On January 25 2010 04:49 Saturnize wrote:
I blame KesPa for not having a simple power generator for the computers in case such an event occurs. I know it was a lose/lose situation for kespa but they should be better prepared. That isn't Kespa's fault, lol. Too many of you guys are blaming the wrong people, when all of this was just a fail by MBC. The games were all "finals worthy" imo. The only problem was that the epicness was ruined by the 700 people virtual studio bs and the black out in game 3. The thing costs $40 why shouldn't they be prepared for this? Its so simple...MBC, Kespa, whoever could of had these for games just in case a black out were to occur.
Look it's all well and good to say "Kespa should have done this" and "MBC could've done that" but realistically how many times has this happened before? Kespa's decision was the best they felt they were capable of making in such a situation. I agree that MBC's planning of the finals was absolutely appalling, but there's really no use trying to solve the problem in retrospect.
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On January 25 2010 07:23 LostWraithSC wrote:
Fact in sports. Accidental stoppage of play. 1 point lead = win.
The game is over because of stoppages. There is no what if. Whoever has the advantage wins (kespa has rules for this as well, same with MLB and soccer leagues around the world). .
Fact: MLB Commissioner Selig went on record saying he would not let the Phillies vs Ray World Series end had the umpires stopped the game at 2-1 with the Phillies leading after the fifth inning had started. I'm tired of posting the reference - go up and read my earlier responses to find the Bud Selig quote.
It's good to see MLB and Selig have the sense to not "gift" the win to the leading team when the game is cancelled. Can't say the same about KESPA.
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On January 25 2010 08:17 StarcraftMan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2010 07:23 LostWraithSC wrote:
Fact in sports. Accidental stoppage of play. 1 point lead = win.
The game is over because of stoppages. There is no what if. Whoever has the advantage wins (kespa has rules for this as well, same with MLB and soccer leagues around the world). . Fact: MLB Commissioner Selig went on record saying he would not let the Phillies vs Ray World Series end had the umpires stopped the game at 2-1 with the Phillies leading after the fifth inning had started. I'm tired of posting the reference - go up and read my earlier responses to find the Bud Selig quote. It's good to see MLB and Selig have the sense to not "gift" the win to the leading team when the game is cancelled. Can't say the same about KESPA.
Selig's opinion is not the official rulebook of the MLB. Games can be delayed in baseball because they can resume at the same score as before, and that's already disregarding the stamina and other factors. The official rule of the MLB states that games are awarded to the winning team after the fifth inning if the game must stop. We cannot resume the starcraft game even if its the finals of the series to end all series. By almost all rules of sports, not just baseball, when you absolutely cannot resume a match at a different time, the game is called at its current score with a rematch completely out of the question.
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I can't agree with your reasoning behind Jaedong being "the greatest player of all time". Jaedong had much much more time to practice for the MSL Finals than Flash did, supposedly. I also feel that one game or series isn't really enough to prove that statement, especially this series.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On January 25 2010 08:39 endGame wrote:
I can't agree with your reasoning behind Jaedong being "the greatest player of all time". Jaedong had much much more time to practice for the MSL Finals than Flash did, supposedly. I also feel that one game or series isn't really enough to prove that statement, especially this series.
But of course when Flash beat Jaedong in the OSL it was solid proof for all the fanboys that he totally owns Jaedong and is best player ever.
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EPT
