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[Fantasy] PL 09-10 R2 Signups - Page 20

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
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Scorch
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Austria3371 Posts
December 03 2009 15:03 GMT
#381
I just built my team. It's much harder this time because you can't fill out your team with cheap chumps who get lineup appearances but rarely win. In the previous seasons, it was these 2-3 pointers who scored decently despite mediocre winning percentages. Then again, the new scoring system opens up more interesting anti-team choices. I'm going ballsy/crazy this season by taking some risks. Let's see if that brings me to the top 100.
integral
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3161 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-03 15:52:15
December 03 2009 15:43 GMT
#382
If there's any reason for the constant to increase, it's that it was too low in the first place. Average team wins will be 5.5, so the average 1-pointer should be expected to earn 5.5 points over the round -- under the old scoring, anyway.

But now that there's an opportunity for average 1-pointers to lose points, the average 1-pointer should be expected to earn less than 5.5 points. If you further consider that the 1-pointers are 1-pointers because they either play and lose often or they don't play very much, and that the best players don't lose very often at all, the constant makes even less sense. 1 or 2 pointers that play often can expect to end up negative or zeroed out, while 1-pointers that don't play have a chance of ending up 2-pointers just on the basis of their team wins. It doesn't matter that the ones who do play are in the lineup more often because they're better than the other players on their team, they can be expected to do worse in FPL than their teammates who are not playing.

So instead of having jangbi (-2 points last season under new scoring) or baby (2 points) or horang2 (1 point) on my team, I have sair and sungsun and nbs. I don't know these players, I've never even seem them play, I just know they're less of a risk than someone who plays and loses.

On that note, why the hell does jangbi cost 2 points when he ended up negative last season?

Anyway, I don't really like this way of scoring. Starcraft is zero-sum, so if you're not winning you're losing -- but the way I see it, the real accomplishment is just getting to play at this level. Penalizing players for playing games is silly.
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
December 03 2009 15:59 GMT
#383
Even the mediocre players win like 40% of their games (except for some major slumps from good players who get to play a lot). IMO its way better to take risks than to go for unknow players in fear of losing points... Winning 2 games of 5 is better than not playing at all xd
Revolutionist fan
pripple
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Finland1714 Posts
December 03 2009 16:06 GMT
#384
2 games of 5 is -2 total, not too good at all ;<

anyways, finally got version 1 of my team done, and yes picking antiteam is impossible, getting a headache here ;p
Jaedong! <> Team MVP <> Mouz.
Itachii
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Poland12466 Posts
December 03 2009 16:15 GMT
#385
AT is so hard, dammit, who knows how these Fox kids will play
La parole nous a été donnée pour déguiser notre pensée
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
December 03 2009 16:44 GMT
#386
On December 04 2009 00:43 integral wrote:
So instead of having jangbi (-2 points last season under new scoring) or baby (2 points) or horang2 (1 point) on my team, I have sair and sungsun and nbs. I don't know these players, I've never even seem them play, I just know they're less of a risk than someone who plays and loses.

That's a good way to not get negative points but it also basically guarantees you of a middle of the pack finish among thousands of owners. If you want to finish high this season, you will have to pick players you think will win, not just pick players who will "not lose."

On that note, why the hell does jangbi cost 2 points when he ended up negative last season?

Because we adjusted a lot of the costs. Since you think Jangbi costs too much, you're putting him on your anti team right?

Anyway, I don't really like this way of scoring. Starcraft is zero-sum, so if you're not winning you're losing -- but the way I see it, the real accomplishment is just getting to play at this level. Penalizing players for playing games is silly.

How are we penalizing players for playing games? We're simply removing the automatic point for playing. There's no constitutional law stating that every player in fantasy proleague is guaranteed an appearance point.

I disagree -- the real accomplishment is not "simply getting to play." The real accomplishment is winning. And with 4 points to a win and -2 for a loss, players break even if go 1-2 (which probably means they still score, because of ace and team wins). From an owner standpoint, predicting who gets to play is very, very easy. I can predict with about 90% accuracy (as can everyone else) who will be sent by most teams. Especially since I can trade after seeing lineups. But its much harder and more skillful to predict who will win games, especially without the safety blanket of knowing that theres no penalty for just picking players who play a lot (which is easy by just looking at lineups).
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
December 03 2009 16:46 GMT
#387
On December 04 2009 01:06 pripple wrote:
2 games of 5 is -2 total, not too good at all ;<

anyways, finally got version 1 of my team done, and yes picking antiteam is impossible, getting a headache here ;p


What? Isn't it 4 points per win and 2 wins per lose? 4x2= 8 and 3x(-2)= - 6.

+2 points is better than 0 xd
Revolutionist fan
Fr33t
Profile Joined June 2008
United States1128 Posts
December 03 2009 16:49 GMT
#388
Main Team
8 (P)Bisu (captain)
2 (P)Jangbi
6 (T)Leta
5 (P)Stork
2 (Z)Type-B
3 (Z)Yarnc
4 Woongjin Stars

Anti Team
4 (P)Best
5 (Z)Roro
4 (T)Ruby

Honestly had no idea what team to pick...
"Wow you could literally transport Lomo's face to a girl and the result would be pretty deceptive."
pripple
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Finland1714 Posts
December 03 2009 17:03 GMT
#389
On December 04 2009 01:46 Salteador Neo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2009 01:06 pripple wrote:
2 games of 5 is -2 total, not too good at all ;<

anyways, finally got version 1 of my team done, and yes picking antiteam is impossible, getting a headache here ;p


What? Isn't it 4 points per win and 2 wins per lose? 4x2= 8 and 3x(-2)= - 6.

+2 points is better than 0 xd

haha, you're absolutely right, somehow i counted 5 losses, reading comprehension win!
Jaedong! <> Team MVP <> Mouz.
TTOMZ
Profile Joined August 2009
United Kingdom156 Posts
December 03 2009 17:10 GMT
#390
A lot of changes here, but i'm feelings really happy with this

TTOMZ

Main Team
10 (T)Flash (captain)
4 (T)Light
3 (P)Movie
5 (P)Stork
2 (Z)Type-B
3 (Z)Yarnc
3 Hite Sparkyz

Anti Team
4 (T)Hiya
5 (P)Kal
4 (T)Skyhigh
9 pool you say?
Beside_kr
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada902 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-03 17:47:31
December 03 2009 17:46 GMT
#391
Choosing my anti-team was a lot harder than last round, BeSt is trash so that's easy but I really think I'll regret putting down Really

Klobb

Main Team
4 (T)Hiya (captain)
8 (Z)Jaedong
2 (P)Jaehoon
4 (T)Light
5 (P)Stork
2 (Z)Type-B
5 MBCGame Hero

Anti Team
4 (P)Best
3 (Z)Hyvaa
6 (T)Really

edit- Hydralisk!
Cuffs, cuffs, you can't break those cuffs
RandomAccount#49059
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2140 Posts
December 03 2009 18:05 GMT
#392
--- Nuked ---
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
December 03 2009 18:20 GMT
#393
Wow, everyone is going for YarnC or Type-B (or both xD)

Interesting >:D
Revolutionist fan
Zozma
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1626 Posts
December 03 2009 18:39 GMT
#394
Stegosaurus

Main Team
6 (P)Free
1 (Z)Hogil
6 (T)Leta (captain)
0 (P)Reach
9 (T)Sea
5 (P)Stork
3 Hite Sparkyz

Anti Team
4 (P)Best
4 (T)Hiya
5 (Z)Roro


Alright, ready to go.
Zozma
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1626 Posts
December 03 2009 18:42 GMT
#395
On December 04 2009 03:05 stormtemplar wrote:
???? Best is BAD? He beat flash, calm and a bunch of other people recently.

Picking Best makes sense to me because he's not even in the lineup for the first week. I'll just keep an eye on his matches as time goes on.
Spanxxx
Profile Joined February 2009
United States408 Posts
December 03 2009 20:33 GMT
#396
Ima-Trade-A-Lot

Main Team
3 (Z)Great
4 (T)Hiya
8 (Z)Jaedong (captain)
6 (T)Leta
5 (P)Stork
2 (Z)Type-B
2 Samsung KHAN

Anti Team
3 (P)Han
6 (Z)Luxury
4 (T)Ruby
If people arent trying to pull you down, you arent climbing high enough.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
December 03 2009 20:56 GMT
#397
Hoping Flash carries me to another top 50 finish. :3
Remember Violet.
integral
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3161 Posts
December 03 2009 20:56 GMT
#398
On December 04 2009 01:44 Hot_Bid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2009 00:43 integral wrote:
So instead of having jangbi (-2 points last season under new scoring) or baby (2 points) or horang2 (1 point) on my team, I have sair and sungsun and nbs. I don't know these players, I've never even seem them play, I just know they're less of a risk than someone who plays and loses.

That's a good way to not get negative points but it also basically guarantees you of a middle of the pack finish among thousands of owners. If you want to finish high this season, you will have to pick players you think will win, not just pick players who will "not lose."

Show nested quote +
On that note, why the hell does jangbi cost 2 points when he ended up negative last season?

Because we adjusted a lot of the costs. Since you think Jangbi costs too much, you're putting him on your anti team right?

Show nested quote +
Anyway, I don't really like this way of scoring. Starcraft is zero-sum, so if you're not winning you're losing -- but the way I see it, the real accomplishment is just getting to play at this level. Penalizing players for playing games is silly.

How are we penalizing players for playing games? We're simply removing the automatic point for playing. There's no constitutional law stating that every player in fantasy proleague is guaranteed an appearance point.

I disagree -- the real accomplishment is not "simply getting to play." The real accomplishment is winning. And with 4 points to a win and -2 for a loss, players break even if go 1-2 (which probably means they still score, because of ace and team wins). From an owner standpoint, predicting who gets to play is very, very easy. I can predict with about 90% accuracy (as can everyone else) who will be sent by most teams. Especially since I can trade after seeing lineups. But its much harder and more skillful to predict who will win games, especially without the safety blanket of knowing that theres no penalty for just picking players who play a lot (which is easy by just looking at lineups).


Originally I really liked the new rules for scoring, particularly since anti-team players could gain you points. The only reason I spoke up in the first place was because the "expected point gain of a 1-pointer" constant should change to appropriately fit the new scoring rules, and the only reason I continue to post is because Abydos1 apparently did not understand that the new scoring changes would lead to an average decrease in scores, not an increase. Obviously this impacts the scoring and trade values of players not just this round, but the next round as well -- set too high of a constant for the number of points distributed and player costs will deflate from round to round.

It's only after thinking about this a long time that I'm starting to dislike the new scoring rules. I'm not some conservative who thinks rules should be a particular way just because that's the way they were done before, nor do I feel like there should be some sort of charity giving points to players who lose. My point is that mathematically, 1-pointers who play will on average do significantly worse than their non-playing counterparts. That's what I mean by a penalty for playing. 1-pointers, if they play, are going to lose. Yes, there is a skill in picking players that are going to do well, but the emphasis right now is not on winning but on win percentage.

Also, I really don't understand why you would change a players' cost relative to the previous round. Player initial costs are really important in determining who goes on what team, and if a player did so poorly as to score negative points the previous round they really shouldn't be seeded at 2 points the next time. It's ridiculous to arbitrarily pick and choose which players' costs to change -- you might as well be using a completely different criterion for assigning player costs, like "skill", and do away with math altogether. There would be an uproar if you arbitrarily assigned a player points or inflated their trade value in the middle of the season, it isn't much different to do that in the offseason.

Obviously FPL is still about picking players and making trades and doing all that better relative to everyone else that is playing FPL. I get that. No matter how the scoring and player costs change, everyone's teams are still scored the same. But for all your talk of skill, it's getting pretty annoying trying to play FPL seriously.
Lonyo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United Kingdom3884 Posts
December 03 2009 20:58 GMT
#399
Attack All Around

Main Team
10 (T)Flash (captain)
2 (T)ForGG
3 (Z)Hyuk
5 (P)Kal
3 (P)Movie
0 (P)Reach
7 KT Rolster

Anti Team
8 (Z)Jaedong
1 (T)Piano
4 (T)Skyhigh

Yes, Jaedong in the anti-team.
Crazy, except that he never plays as an Ace.
HOLY CHECK!
skronch
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2717 Posts
December 03 2009 21:01 GMT
#400
ugh, not really satisfied with this but i think this will be my lineup:

dongdong

Main Team
3 (Z)Action
10 (T)Flash (captain)
4 (T)Hiya
1 (Z)July
6 (T)Leta
3 (P)Movie
3 Hite Sparkyz

Anti Team
3 (Z)Killer
5 (T)Mind
5 (Z)Roro
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