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On November 03 2009 12:44 Waxangel wrote: Just wondering, how do Chinese fans feel about his pretty blatant China bashing?
He pretty much says Chinese bands suck, and he doesn't like the food -_-
I'm Chinese and it doesn't bother me at all. His critiques are valid. A lot of Chinese food really is greasy, especially for a foreigner who doesn't know which foods to pick. Also, Chinese music does kind of suck. I try hard to listen to C-Pop because it's my Chinese peoples, but god it sucks hard. Jay Chou is like the one saving grace. K-pop is miles ahead in terms of sophistication right now.
So, really, no, I actually agree with what Stork says. Now if he said something ridiculous like Chinese people are bad, or this country sucks, or just some other sweeping generalization that is an obvious shot at Chinese people solely for being Chinese, then I'd be offended.
As it is, he's just telling it like he is. Which is why I <3 Stork.
P.S. Stork eat some pork buns before you die of anorexia.
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I really don't get some people.
If someone would complain about Swiss Music or stereotype Swiss Foods. I wouldn't feel insulted at all, chances are high that he doesn't like Cheese, Milk and Potatoes. Why should anyone be insulted by that? I mean, I'm still staggered by what kind of music it makes to the top of our charts, just as staggered as I am that there are actually really are people over 10 years of age that like C, K or J-Pop.
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When I first read this interview I was like 'eyebrows are gonna be raising because of the h1n1 and food comment'. People like Stork can be very blunt about. Would have been better if he kept the comment to himself because some people do get offended. But hey, Stork is Stork and that's how he does interviews.
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chinese fodd kicks ass in my opinion,and this progamer is scared of h1n1,shit man don t be a fucking pussy
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On November 04 2009 17:41 Velr wrote: I really don't get some people.
If someone would complain about Swiss Music or stereotype Swiss Foods. I wouldn't feel insulted at all, chances are high that he doesn't like Cheese, Milk and Potatoes. Why should anyone be insulted by that? I mean, I'm still staggered by what kind of music it makes to the top of our charts, just as staggered as I am that there are actually really are people over 10 years of age that like C, K or J-Pop.
As explained earlier in the thread, the Chinese are extremely nationalistic. I would assume much more so than Swiss people.
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On November 04 2009 18:49 pubbanana wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2009 17:41 Velr wrote: I really don't get some people.
If someone would complain about Swiss Music or stereotype Swiss Foods. I wouldn't feel insulted at all, chances are high that he doesn't like Cheese, Milk and Potatoes. Why should anyone be insulted by that? I mean, I'm still staggered by what kind of music it makes to the top of our charts, just as staggered as I am that there are actually really are people over 10 years of age that like C, K or J-Pop.
As explained earlier in the thread, the Chinese are extremely nationalistic. I would assume much more so than Swiss people.
If i look in this thread, there aren't really many chinese complaining?
And yes, a good part of the swiss people, including me, are not very patriotic.
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On November 04 2009 19:23 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2009 18:49 pubbanana wrote:On November 04 2009 17:41 Velr wrote: I really don't get some people.
If someone would complain about Swiss Music or stereotype Swiss Foods. I wouldn't feel insulted at all, chances are high that he doesn't like Cheese, Milk and Potatoes. Why should anyone be insulted by that? I mean, I'm still staggered by what kind of music it makes to the top of our charts, just as staggered as I am that there are actually really are people over 10 years of age that like C, K or J-Pop.
As explained earlier in the thread, the Chinese are extremely nationalistic. I would assume much more so than Swiss people. If i look in this thread, there aren't really many chinese complaining? And yes, a good part of the swiss people, including me, are not very patriotic.
Surely you can't think that the Chinese people on this board are representative of the Chinese population in general? Especially since very few true Chinese actually bother to post on an English message board.
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On November 05 2009 02:26 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2009 19:23 Velr wrote:On November 04 2009 18:49 pubbanana wrote:On November 04 2009 17:41 Velr wrote: I really don't get some people.
If someone would complain about Swiss Music or stereotype Swiss Foods. I wouldn't feel insulted at all, chances are high that he doesn't like Cheese, Milk and Potatoes. Why should anyone be insulted by that? I mean, I'm still staggered by what kind of music it makes to the top of our charts, just as staggered as I am that there are actually really are people over 10 years of age that like C, K or J-Pop.
As explained earlier in the thread, the Chinese are extremely nationalistic. I would assume much more so than Swiss people. If i look in this thread, there aren't really many chinese complaining? And yes, a good part of the swiss people, including me, are not very patriotic. Surely you can't think that the Chinese people on this board are representative of the Chinese population in general? Especially since very few true Chinese actually bother to post on an English message board.
Hey Baubo, thanks for interjecting some much needed ethno-centrism into the mix. What exactly is the definition of a "true Chinese?" I'd love to hear your interpretation.
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On November 05 2009 03:04 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2009 02:26 baubo wrote:On November 04 2009 19:23 Velr wrote:On November 04 2009 18:49 pubbanana wrote:On November 04 2009 17:41 Velr wrote: I really don't get some people.
If someone would complain about Swiss Music or stereotype Swiss Foods. I wouldn't feel insulted at all, chances are high that he doesn't like Cheese, Milk and Potatoes. Why should anyone be insulted by that? I mean, I'm still staggered by what kind of music it makes to the top of our charts, just as staggered as I am that there are actually really are people over 10 years of age that like C, K or J-Pop.
As explained earlier in the thread, the Chinese are extremely nationalistic. I would assume much more so than Swiss people. If i look in this thread, there aren't really many chinese complaining? And yes, a good part of the swiss people, including me, are not very patriotic. Surely you can't think that the Chinese people on this board are representative of the Chinese population in general? Especially since very few true Chinese actually bother to post on an English message board. Hey Baubo, thanks for interjecting some much needed ethnocentrism into the mix. What exactly is the definition of a "true Chinese?" I'd love to hear your interpretation.
One that's born and raised in China? As opposed to Chinese Americans or Chinese who grew up in western society. Perhaps the word "true" is kind of bad. Maybe I should've said "native" instead.
Why is this ethno-centrism? I'm speaking of practicality. They don't post on English message boards because their English is NOT GOOD ENOUGH to post on English boards. And therefore they surf on websites in Chinese, which they're familiar with because it's their native language.
Do you think it's ethnocentrism if I told you that most true Americans don't post on Chinese boards? And that any American who do is not representative of US people in general?
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I was born in China and raised there for about 7 years. I grew up in that society and knows the cultures VERY well. Stork's comment about not liking greasy food because of diet problems doesn't really bother me that much because he is just trying to lose a few pounds that's all. The H1N1, I am pretty sure that's just about travelling in generals, I mean here in Canada, there are plenty of news papers article that urges people to stay grounded (even stay at their vocation spot) so that they won't spread the flu or get it on the way. Naturally Stork would be concerned about getting on a plane. I think the thing about the music performance wasn't meant for the Chinese musics but rather wishing the SNSD, SHINee and IU would be in Korea. However the only part that I am not too fond of is that he is saying the Chinese were fluking in the tournaments and whatnot because I am pretty sure that they practiced extra hard against the Koreans.
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Wow why is an "interview" turning into "my nation is better than yours" thread? After about page 3 this thread turned into "Chinese food does not sux, go shove kimchi up urs" and then "kids are brainwashed into nationalism" then someone does the right thing and wants ppl to "chill it's just an interview what's wrong with not liking Chinese food" then blabla
Guess what, I did exactly what started this mess: simplifying something and putting some sweet bias in it to fire up a discussion. So thanks for reading the above but please forget what you just read.
I'm a Canadian citizen, born in Korea, I'm not picky about food, I'm not very scared about swine flu but my image of China doesn't include best hygiene. I like K-pop better than C-pop, but I usually listen to K-ballad most of the time. I'm no Stork, but I'm a Stork fan!
Going to read original interview and see what he actually said.
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On November 05 2009 10:24 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2009 03:04 StorkHwaiting wrote:On November 05 2009 02:26 baubo wrote:On November 04 2009 19:23 Velr wrote:On November 04 2009 18:49 pubbanana wrote:On November 04 2009 17:41 Velr wrote: I really don't get some people.
If someone would complain about Swiss Music or stereotype Swiss Foods. I wouldn't feel insulted at all, chances are high that he doesn't like Cheese, Milk and Potatoes. Why should anyone be insulted by that? I mean, I'm still staggered by what kind of music it makes to the top of our charts, just as staggered as I am that there are actually really are people over 10 years of age that like C, K or J-Pop.
As explained earlier in the thread, the Chinese are extremely nationalistic. I would assume much more so than Swiss people. If i look in this thread, there aren't really many chinese complaining? And yes, a good part of the swiss people, including me, are not very patriotic. Surely you can't think that the Chinese people on this board are representative of the Chinese population in general? Especially since very few true Chinese actually bother to post on an English message board. Hey Baubo, thanks for interjecting some much needed ethnocentrism into the mix. What exactly is the definition of a "true Chinese?" I'd love to hear your interpretation. One that's born and raised in China? As opposed to Chinese Americans or Chinese who grew up in western society. Perhaps the word "true" is kind of bad. Maybe I should've said "native" instead. Why is this ethno-centrism? I'm speaking of practicality. They don't post on English message boards because their English is NOT GOOD ENOUGH to post on English boards. And therefore they surf on websites in Chinese, which they're familiar with because it's their native language. Do you think it's ethnocentrism if I told you that most true Americans don't post on Chinese boards? And that any American who do is not representative of US people in general?
Maybe it's a problem of English being your second language (if it is. I don't know much about you, unfortunately.) True really has a lot of bad connotations when you use it in the sense of "true" Chinese.
I don't want to be an anal-retentive jerk but there's no such thing as a "true" Chinese. Much like the Han ethnicity is a mutt-up of all kinds of different people. There's no such thing as Han ethnic purity.
Also, by your definition, I could find some Turkish Uigur guy who herds goats on Tian Shan and he would be more "Chinese" than a Han Chinese from California.
It's just a very foolish way of trying to categorize things. Chinese that are born outside of China can identify as Chinese people just as strongly as a Chinese person born in China. I get just as offended when someone calls China a communist dictatorship full of dog eaters and baby killers.
It's a very sticky topic and sweeping generalizations are probably not going to be accurate. I could cite numerous instances where Chinese are not "native" to a region. Would you say people from Yunnan are not "true" Chinese? That used to be Nanzhao territory in the Tang dynasty. Using the logic of being born in a certain place just doesn't work very well.
I could of course extrapolate what you're saying to a broader definition of immersion in Chinese culture, yada yada, about how genuinely Chinese someone is, but that is equally inaccurate. You would need to define what exactly is Chinese culture, and again I could cite numerous aspects of Chinese culture that are externally derived, such as farming rice instead of millet, Sichuan peppercorns coming from Portugal, Buddhism coming from India, Chinese people settling in the Yangtze River valleys, etc etc ad infinitum. Really, anyone who is a scholar of Chinese history knows that to accurately define what is genuinely "Chinese" would be an exercise in futility.
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Kids, this is not the "Let's Debate Nationalism" thread; this is the thread to discuss Stork's IEF winner interview. Now, in said interview, Stork said that he didn't like going to China because he's scared of catching swine flu while travelling, the food is too greasy for his dieet, and he doesn't like the music as much as Korean music; now, if that really bothers you (and why should it?), then that's fine. Go ahead and say your piece...and then let it go.
If you really do want to discuss nationalism, then please take it to the Off-topic forum. Thanks.
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Great translation, thanks again. Keep it up
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he looks like he lost 10 kgs. regarding the stork HATES china slant. waxangel is the agent provocateur here. "how do you guys feel? stork said he HATES you" besides, a japanese or korean "bashing" china is as cute as a little boy fuming at his daddy.
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Liking food/music isn't the same thing as hating a country.
I despise Indian food and Indian music. Is this insulting to an indian? Why should it be? People should be treated with equal respect regardless of whether or not you find enjoyment in certain aspects of their culture. It's silly to be offended by Stork's comments.
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On November 05 2009 12:10 Captain Peabody wrote: Kids, this is not the "Let's Debate Nationalism" thread; this is the thread to discuss Stork's IEF winner interview. Now, in said interview, Stork said that he didn't like going to China because he's scared of catching swine flu while travelling, the food is too greasy for his dieet, and he doesn't like the music as much as Korean music; now, if that really bothers you (and why should it?), then that's fine. Go ahead and say your piece...and then let it go.
If you really do want to discuss nationalism, then please take it to the Off-topic forum. Thanks.
Waxangel asked the Chinese TLers their opinion on the issue. People are debating what constitutes an actual Chinese opinion. This is pertinent to IEF since it's a Chinese-hosted tournament, hence why the interviewer asked Stork his opinion on the country. There is nothing off-topic about it. If you can't understand this, you probably shouldn't be calling other people kids.
Interview threads aren't purely for discussing Starcraft. That's why interview questions ask about all kinds of different topics not particularly related to the game.
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thanks heaps for the interview!
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Waxangel asked the Chinese TLers their opinion on the issue. People are debating what constitutes an actual Chinese opinion. This is pertinent to IEF since it's a Chinese-hosted tournament, hence why the interviewer asked Stork his opinion on the country. There is nothing off-topic about it. If you can't understand this, you probably shouldn't be calling other people kids.
Again, it's fine for people to say whether or not they're offended by what Stork said, especially if asked. But actually debating one nation vs another or one group of Chinese vs another is not a profitable discussion, as it is something that can not be definitively settled, leads to flaming, etc. And it is off-topic.
Nevertheless, I do apologize for the "kids" thing; that was rather arrogant of me. But my point still stands.
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I just finished reading the original (Korean) article on fomos. Actually, I'm surprised that the translation was overall accurate because the OP link to the source article leads to the Chinese (already translated by someone else) article. We know Stork is Korean, and thus I'm assuming Korean article on fomos has the right to be considered "original".
Also, the OP also included a disclaimer at the bottom that it's his first translation and there might be errors. OK, fine enough, but you still have to take responsibility for your translations and its consequences (i.e. the nationality-flame-war). I have no right to discourage you from making further translations, but here's a word of caution: what's there in the Chinese article you found already passed through a Chinese translator and you know in broken telephone, the more links the message moves through, the worse it gets. The only one major mistake was the line about food - which you'll see in my translation later that although the words aren't so much different, the slight change in wording makes the interpretation of it very different.
I don't usually translate stuff because 1) engineering undergrad = deprived of sleep due to work overload 2) repeat reason 1. But I do want to make sure that everyone has access to a more "directly translated" article - and I try my best as a translator to remain neutral. Most of the translation are similar with the OP, with the exception about the food part (I made it bold in case you wanted to skip to it).
My Translations (Korean -> English)
On the 1st (day of the month), "Commander Toss" Stork (Samsung KHAN) beat Terror[fOu] in the finals to win the Starcraft tournament of IEF 2009.
Stork was unbeaten until the finals but he couldn't achieve the all-win record due to his loss in the 2nd game of the finals. Still, he showed the high-level play of a progamer and won the tournament. (Terror[fOu] is listed as "amateur" - I think he retired already thus they don't call him "pro" anymore)
The following are the Q&A with Stork:
- Your first thoughts after winning IEF 2009 ▲ I didn't have any special thoughts about it. I wasn't too ecstatic about it because I think I had an easier bracket to deal with due to the fact that other Korean players got knocked off earlier.
- Korean players got knocked off the group stage ▲ During the tournament I was on different floors/sections so I didn't know the results until some time later. The results did indeed shock me. If they didn't play overly aggressive they should have been able to advance to the elimination stages. I was disappointed that they didn't make it. I personally focused on playing an adaptive style based on my opponents' play.
- You narrowly missed the all-win ▲ I'm a little ashamed of myself for that. I thought about why I lost game 2 of the finals and later realized I forgot to upgrade dragoon's range and chuckled. I made those mistakes before and I made the mistake again today - so I thought it was kind of funny.
- Did you want to play against other Korean progamers ▲ Bisu and I were in the finals last year so we were seeded in the tournament. When I looked at the maps, I got a little nervous/anxious. I was worried I'd have to face EffOrt (I guess Stork doesn't want to face a Zerg in the maps given) and Bisu lost to EffOrt so I mentally fortified myself for a possible match against EffOrt. Actually, EffOrt not making it to the elimination stages probably helped me win today. Still, I thought it'd be nice to test my skills against other top Korean progamers in a non-official match, and I'm disappointed that I couldn't do that today.
- How were the matches against Terror[fOu] ▲ It wasn't very difficult to get information about him since he was formerly a progamer. My teammates helped me find information about him.
- KHAN lost today in the proleague ▲ There's still 50 games left. Right now we're in last place but I'll try my best to put my team back on the top after WCG. I win games and motivate my teammates like a good leader.
- You are now seeded for the next IEF ▲ I heard the IEF is going to be held in China next year; that means that I'll be going to China for two years straight because WCG this year is held in China as well. I'm a little scared of travelling overseas because of H1N1 and I'm reluctant/hesitant to eat the greasy dishes there because I'm on a diet. Moreover, if the concerts/performances would be better if they were Korean because I find Chinese concerts/performances boring. So it's not all smiles for going to China for two years straight. (smiles)
- Last words ▲ Brave played his first match in the proleague today and he lost despite trying his best. His skills will improve with more experience so I want him to keep trying hard. I want the whole team (KHAN) to work harder as a team and climb the proleague ranks together.
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My (not the article) thought's after translating it myself: - Stork did indeed say that he finds Chinese performances "boring" and Korean performances better. Well, performances in your native tongue (which you can understand) and with the performers that you know (whom you're already familiar with) is probably going to be better for anyone. - Stork did NOT say Chinese food is bad - he just said he doesn't want to eat the greasy dishes because he is on a diet. - He did not directly put down foreign players, but yes he did say it would have been harder for him if Korean progamers advanced to the elimination rounds.
Original Article: (In Korean)+ Show Spoiler +1일, 수원종합경기장에서 열린 IEF 2009 스타크래프트 부문에서 ‘총사령관’ 송병구(삼성전자)가 아마추어 이철민을 제압하고 우승을 차지했다.
결승전까지 전승을 기록한 송병구는 결승 2경기에서 패하며 전승 우승에는 실패했으나 한 수 위의 경기력을 선보이며 우승을 차지, 프로게이머의 자존심을 지켰다.
다음은 송병구와의 일문일답
- IEF 2009 우승을 차지한 소감은 ▲ 우승에 대한 생각을 못했다. 한국 선수들이 외국 선수들에게 일격을 당해서 대진운으로 우승한 것 같아서 크게 기쁘지는 않다.
- 한국 선수들이 외국 선수들에게 패하며 탈락했다. ▲ 방송경기를 한 다음에 플로어에서 경기할 때는 경기장이 반대라서 결과를 늦게 알았다. 결과를 듣고 충격을 받았다. 안정적으로 했다면 올라갔을 텐데 그러지 못해서 진 것 같아 아쉬웠다. 나는 최대한 맞춰가는 플레이를 하기 위해 노력했다.
- 전승 우승을 아쉽게 실패했다. ▲ 많이 아쉽다. 2경기가 끝나고 왜 졌을까 하는 생각을 한 결과 나중에 보니 사업을 안 했더라. 그래서 웃음이 나왔다. 업그레이드나 리서치를 안 하는 실수를 많이 했는데 오늘도 그런 실수를 해서 웃었다.
- 한국 선수들과 경기해보고 싶은 생각은 없었나 ▲ 택용이와 나는 작년에 결승에 올라갔기 때문에 시드를 통해 이번 대회에 참가하게 됐다. 맵을 보고 사실 조금 당황했다. (김)정우를 만날까 봐 걱정했는데 택용이까지 패하는 것을 보고 마음을 굳게 먹고 있었다. 그런데 정우가 일찍 떨어져서 우승할 수 있게 된 것 같다. 그래도 최근 열심히 하고 있어서 한번쯤은 한국 선수들과 비공식전에서 한번 만나서 실력을 체크해보고 싶었는데 그러지 못해서 조금 아쉽다.
- 이철민과의 경기는 어땠나 ▲ 예전에 프로게이머로 활동했던 선수라서 정보를 얻기 편했다. 팀원들의 도움도 있어서 승리할 수 있었다.
- 오늘 팀은 프로리그에서 패했는데 ▲ 아직 50경기가 남았다. 지금은 꼴찌지만 WCG 다녀오고 나서 열심히 해서 팀을 상위권으로 올리겠다. 한 사람이 정말 잘하면 팀원들도 성적이 향상된다고 생각하기 때문에 내가 그 리더의 역할을 하고 싶다.
- 다음 대회 시드를 확보했다. ▲ 내년에는 IEF를 중국에서 한다고 들었는데 WCG도 중국에 가고 IEF도 시드를 받아서 2년 연속 중국에 가게 됐다. 요즘에 신종 플루 때문에 외국에 나가는 것도 두렵고 살을 빼고 있어서 중국의 기름진 음식이 부담스럽기도 하다. 게다가 축하 공연도 한국이면 기분 좋게 볼텐데 중국은 재미가 없었다. 그래서 중국 행이 좋지만은 않다(웃음).
- 끝으로 하고 싶은 말은 ▲ 오늘 처음 출전하는 (임)태규가 정말 열심히 했는데 아쉽게 졌다. 경험이 쌓인다면 실력이 더 좋아질 것 같으니 좌절하지 말고 열심히 했으면 좋겠다. 다들 열심히 해서 상위권으로 올라갈 수 있도록 한마음 한 뜻으로 잘하고 싶다.
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