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ZvP is imbalanced - Page 42

Forum Index > BW General
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Signet
Profile Joined March 2007
United States1718 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-22 03:03:57
October 22 2009 02:52 GMT
#821
Hm, modeling this could get ugly.

Elo is constructed so that a difference between two players' elo scores of X implies that the stronger player will win 1/(1+10^(-X/400)) percent of the time. Obviously winrate is not linearly proportional to elo difference.

The model *might* be better off regressing:
* predicted winrate for the zerg player, based solely on both players' ELO ratings
* zerg player's actual ELO (protoss elo would be redundant, since it is used to generate the above variable)

rather than:
* Z elo
* P elo

I can't say for certain. Throwing it out there in case the one way blows up!

(if it's useful, TLPD uses a K value of roughly 20)
KnifeLadder
Profile Joined November 2009
United States1 Post
November 17 2009 02:27 GMT
#822
On ICCup you can hardly tell what brand of cheese a Z is going to hit you with. You can scout an all-in ling but good luck finding out if he's all-in Hydra. DTs harass is useless anymore. Scourges to deal with Corsairs make early HT drop economic harassment risky...especially considering that you NEED your HT early anyways. Sim city makes timing attacks extremely difficult to pull off. I've always been a P user and my ratio PvZ is bad...so I give Z a try and I'm 2:1 ZvP, 5 Hatch Hydra/Muta no effort...

I don't want to say the match up is imbalanced. Maybe it's the maps, maybe it's the current builds. But right now it's just ridiculous how many directions a Zerg can take the game compared to the one opening a Protoss has, that a Zerg knows the Protoss is always going to go because it's all Protoss can do.
Turbovolver
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia2393 Posts
November 17 2009 02:35 GMT
#823
And yet everytime I try to do cute drone tricks it turns out they're fucking 2gating
The original Bogus fan.
TwoStep
Profile Joined January 2009
United States294 Posts
November 17 2009 02:35 GMT
#824
Well, it depends, what rank are you? And if you're doing all the harassment, are you doing it during a battle or just when he's sitting as his bases macroing?
Arf
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-17 02:40:22
November 17 2009 02:38 GMT
#825
oh god the thread is back

+ Show Spoiler +
WHAT HAVE I CREATED
ModeratorGood content always wins.
thez
Profile Joined August 2003
Canada65 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-17 02:45:54
November 17 2009 02:42 GMT
#826
ever play a top notch expanding protoss with carrier/sair/temp/da combo? i'd like to see you play zerg under those circumstances and say zerg dominates toss. The game depends on the circumstances. I am almost a strictly zerg player and a very good one even if i do say so myself. I raise the ranks easily. I know i dominate protoss when they expand slowly. When they expand and harass well, it balances it out. Protoss can overtake the zerg if the zerg isn't careful. If you get into a late game with equal bases, protoss vs zerg is the most balanced matchup after the pvp zvz tvt matchups. If you are a toss and feel like you're getting dominated, you're in the habit of not expanding at the right time to keep up with zerg. The matchup tips either way VERY easily, and that's where you're having troubles. Good luck.
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4838 Posts
November 17 2009 02:43 GMT
#827
There are several ways Protoss can play out a Forge FE opening. But it does seem like maps are much more balanced if Protoss has decent alternatives to Forge FE. (And ideally, if there's not an easy spot for lurkers to shoot into your probe lines. It's easier to play if quick lurkers aren't a serious threat.)
My strategy is to fork people.
Foreplay
Profile Joined May 2008
United States1154 Posts
November 17 2009 02:44 GMT
#828
On November 17 2009 11:42 thez wrote:
ever play a top notch expanding protoss with carrier/sair/temp/da combo?


no i can't say i have.
Better than Pokebunny
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36374 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-18 10:59:11
December 18 2009 10:58 GMT
#829
+ Show Spoiler [OSL Ro16] +
watch the movie vs zero OSL Ro16 game and you'll understand

seriously so imba!!!
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
eborp
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States266 Posts
December 18 2009 11:07 GMT
#830
On December 18 2009 19:58 Hot_Bid wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [OSL Ro16] +
watch the movie vs zero OSL Ro16 game and you'll understand

seriously so imba!!!


Agreed. I have no idea how the winner won that game.
UMCP CSL NEEDS YOU!
Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2928 Posts
December 18 2009 11:12 GMT
#831
Yah, the tables have turned. Protoss are imba!
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
Camlito
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Australia4040 Posts
December 18 2009 11:12 GMT
#832
Motbob, i hate you for this thread but you are a pretty cool poster and regret your decision so i don't hate you :D.
sAviOr...
Fontong
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States6454 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-18 11:14:53
December 18 2009 11:14 GMT
#833
+ Show Spoiler [OSL Ro16] +
watch the calm vs pure OSL Ro16 game and you'll understand

seriously so imba!!!
[SECRET FONT] "Dragoon bunker"
Camlito
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Australia4040 Posts
December 18 2009 11:16 GMT
#834
Isn't it OSL Ro8
sAviOr...
etch
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada176 Posts
December 18 2009 11:21 GMT
#835
+ Show Spoiler [OSL Ro8] +
Movie showed us that the key to PvZ is 1a2a3a. Turns out we knew it all along.
lazz
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia3119 Posts
December 18 2009 11:24 GMT
#836
On September 25 2009 17:15 barth wrote:
Perhaps its the players, not the match-up?

hahaha I never get tired of how idiotic this comment is
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4838 Posts
December 18 2009 11:40 GMT
#837
So... is there a solution to the hideous rape that is muta/scourge? Six corsairs are clearly insufficient, as Zerg can match the +1 air attack with +1 air carapace (and then beat it with +2, because Protoss's +2 requires a Fleet Beacon) and have complete air control if he sends in a few mutas first to tank for his scourge.

Does Protoss just have to wait for 12-18 corsairs if the opponent fights for air dominance?
My strategy is to fork people.
Camlito
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Australia4040 Posts
December 18 2009 11:42 GMT
#838
On December 18 2009 20:24 lazz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2009 17:15 barth wrote:
Perhaps its the players, not the match-up?

hahaha I never get tired of how idiotic this comment is


I would have a go at how stupid YOU are if i didn't know you troll 75% of your posts .
sAviOr...
Camlito
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Australia4040 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-18 11:44:45
December 18 2009 11:43 GMT
#839
On December 18 2009 20:40 Severedevil wrote:
So... is there a solution to the hideous rape that is muta/scourge? Six corsairs are clearly insufficient, as Zerg can match the +1 air attack with +1 air carapace (and then beat it with +2, because Protoss's +2 requires a Fleet Beacon) and have complete air control if he sends in a few mutas first to tank for his scourge.

Does Protoss just have to wait for 12-18 corsairs if the opponent fights for air dominance?


Click T on there mutalisks with a high templar, or better yet click M(or R, don't know the hotkey) on 2 templars and click the middle of the mutas.

They complement corsairs pretty well.
sAviOr...
El Resplandor
Profile Joined June 2009
United States187 Posts
December 18 2009 11:44 GMT
#840
On December 18 2009 19:58 Hot_Bid wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [OSL Ro16] +
watch the movie vs zero OSL Ro16 game and you'll understand

seriously so imba!!!


ye >____> 1a2a3a4a win... so sad. Oh and movie had 170 apm that game ROFL?
Live to win 'till you die... 'till the light dies in your eyes
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