EPTAttitudes toward cheaters - Page 9
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despite
Bulgaria105 Posts
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
However, there is a note about 'punishment'. Is it really more punishment that a person is banned from TL than it would be if they had stayed? Just think about it - if clazz had not been banned, every single post he made for a while would be followed up with hate. No one would trust anything he did, either. Regardless of the amount of work he might put into trying to become a full member of the community again, there will still be people who will dislike him for hacking. Is that really less punishment than being banned? If we were worried about punishment, we'd let the community take care of it. I don't think this is TL's stance though. The idea is not that TL feels the need to punish, it's that TL is a place that is strongly against hacking and does not accept members who hack. We sit here and revere the Korean scene and it's progamers on a daily basis. We hold their accomplishments as the pinnacle of what you can achieve in not only this game but in all of e-sports. And out of everything there is not even a thought of hacking. In the end, hacking is the absolute antithesis of all that TL.net is about. It insults the game itself: from LAN parties with friends who all have 50apm, all the way up to the OSL finals. We simply love Starcraft - that's what this comes down to. We love this game too much to tolerate it being degraded into the ground. | ||
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kaleidoscope
Singapore2887 Posts
I'm quite neutral about Ladder abuse, they may be at a higher rank where they actually dont.. But it doesnt matter if they play against ppl of the actual rank.. Looking from another angle, isnt this a little similar to play not within the korean time zone? If they are really abusing it too much, a temporal ban + resetting their scores and stats will do.. | ||
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Piste
6180 Posts
Maybe only banned ingame glitches is not THAT huge deal, becouse sometimes you might do it by accident (tho it must be quite rare). | ||
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volcane
United Kingdom24 Posts
On August 31 2009 21:19 Slow Motion wrote: I am against capital punishment for hackers as I am fundamentally opposed to the death penalty. Any other form of punishment is okay though. No-one is suggesting we kill them.... I'm not sure what this post means; as read literally it seems that you support life imprisonment / deportation / maiming for hackers which I can't believe is what you actually mean. | ||
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WeSt
Portugal918 Posts
TL.net has some features most of the gaming websites don't, has some mature people with good discussions, that's why I choose these forums. Banning people because they hacked is imature and doesn't even make sense. If they hacked they should be banned from iccup, they violated it's rules not TL's. | ||
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jeddus
United States832 Posts
On August 31 2009 21:30 QibingZero wrote: As everyone else has said, ladder abuse is much less of a crime than the others (and glitching isn't as serious as the other two, but still affects another player). I'm not going to go on and on, as I think all the points I could make on that subject have already been made. However, there is a note about 'punishment'. Is it really more punishment that a person is banned from TL than it would be if they had stayed? Just think about it - if clazz had not been banned, every single post he made for a while would be followed up with hate. No one would trust anything he did, either. Regardless of the amount of work he might put into trying to become a full member of the community again, there will still be people who will dislike him for hacking. Is that really less punishment than being banned? If we were worried about punishment, we'd let the community take care of it. I don't think this is TL's stance though. The idea is not that TL feels the need to punish, it's that TL is a place that is strongly against hacking and does not accept members who hack. We sit here and revere the Korean scene and it's progamers on a daily basis. We hold their accomplishments as the pinnacle of what you can achieve in not only this game but in all of e-sports. And out of everything there is not even a thought of hacking. In the end, hacking is the absolute antithesis of all that TL.net is about. It insults the game itself: from LAN parties with friends who all have 50apm, all the way up to the OSL finals. We simply love Starcraft - that's what this comes down to. We love this game too much to tolerate it being degraded into the ground. Beautiful. Brought a tear to my eye. God bless the game. | ||
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ghostWriter
United States3302 Posts
On August 31 2009 21:30 QibingZero wrote: As everyone else has said, ladder abuse is much less of a crime than the others (and glitching isn't as serious as the other two, but still affects another player). I'm not going to go on and on, as I think all the points I could make on that subject have already been made. However, there is a note about 'punishment'. Is it really more punishment that a person is banned from TL than it would be if they had stayed? Just think about it - if clazz had not been banned, every single post he made for a while would be followed up with hate. No one would trust anything he did, either. Regardless of the amount of work he might put into trying to become a full member of the community again, there will still be people who will dislike him for hacking. Is that really less punishment than being banned? If we were worried about punishment, we'd let the community take care of it. I don't think this is TL's stance though. The idea is not that TL feels the need to punish, it's that TL is a place that is strongly against hacking and does not accept members who hack. We sit here and revere the Korean scene and it's progamers on a daily basis. We hold their accomplishments as the pinnacle of what you can achieve in not only this game but in all of e-sports. And out of everything there is not even a thought of hacking. In the end, hacking is the absolute antithesis of all that TL.net is about. It insults the game itself: from LAN parties with friends who all have 50apm, all the way up to the OSL finals. We simply love Starcraft - that's what this comes down to. We love this game too much to tolerate it being degraded into the ground. This makes total sense to me. Now I can understand and accept the reasons for why Clazzi was banned. But if you are going to ban someone for hacking, you should be consistent and ban all known hackers, like testie. | ||
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Motiva
United States1774 Posts
But truly I think consistency is most important. perma ban all and all their accounts. Or Ban them and allow a new account, whatever just be consistent  edit: and imo ladder abuse is less of a crime than the other 3. I feel this way because records and ranks are meaningless and only a petty futile fuck would care about that nonsense The other 3 destroy the integrity of the in-game experience which is what it's all about imoMy 2 cents atleast | ||
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ShmotZ
United States581 Posts
I think players who maphack and use other hacks like mineral hack and multicommand should be banned but not permanently. Maybe a season or two. Ladder abuse is really stupid and they should have there ladder reset and frozen to 1000 on iccup so that theres no point in doing it anymore. They should still be allowed to play though. Obs cheating isnt so bad  unless is in a serious game. If its on a random b.net game then its kinda fun to help your friends =D.illegal in game glitches are bad. hmmkay? I do believe that players who are caught cheating shouldnt be banned forever. I do believe though that players who are caught continuously cheating should be banned forever. | ||
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Scaramanga
Australia8091 Posts
On August 31 2009 21:30 QibingZero wrote: As everyone else has said, ladder abuse is much less of a crime than the others (and glitching isn't as serious as the other two, but still affects another player). I'm not going to go on and on, as I think all the points I could make on that subject have already been made. However, there is a note about 'punishment'. Is it really more punishment that a person is banned from TL than it would be if they had stayed? Just think about it - if clazz had not been banned, every single post he made for a while would be followed up with hate. No one would trust anything he did, either. Regardless of the amount of work he might put into trying to become a full member of the community again, there will still be people who will dislike him for hacking. Is that really less punishment than being banned? If we were worried about punishment, we'd let the community take care of it. I don't think this is TL's stance though. The idea is not that TL feels the need to punish, it's that TL is a place that is strongly against hacking and does not accept members who hack. We sit here and revere the Korean scene and it's progamers on a daily basis. We hold their accomplishments as the pinnacle of what you can achieve in not only this game but in all of e-sports. And out of everything there is not even a thought of hacking. In the end, hacking is the absolute antithesis of all that TL.net is about. It insults the game itself: from LAN parties with friends who all have 50apm, all the way up to the OSL finals. We simply love Starcraft - that's what this comes down to. We love this game too much to tolerate it being degraded into the ground. Nice post man, this pretty much sums up how i feel | ||
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Mah Buckit!
Finland474 Posts
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FuRRie
Belgium815 Posts
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cyronc
218 Posts
On August 31 2009 11:29 Manifesto7 wrote: Up front, so there is no misunderstanding, I am making this thread for my own interest. There is no official TL position here. I'm just trying to gather my own thoughts on the issue, and thought I could find the tenor of the community. To start, how would you rate these offenses?
Are they the same? Are they different? What is the appropriate punishment for people caught of these offenses? Should they be different, or is cheating cheating, no matter the form? TL is full of inconsistencies. Some people are banned for life, but make new accounts and come back. How do you feel about this. Should there be forgiveness? Does what someone does outside the game (organization, contributions, etc) be factored into things? How would you like to see them dealt with?
since its quite impossible to execute one of the hack programs unwillingly (and even if executed unwillingly the simple possession fact keeps it dubious), if there is solid evidence this should be treated the hardest way.
this i regard as being more a bad manner problem than enything else. one exception though: if the laddering gives you rewards like joining a League/Prizes for example (TSL Ladder stage f.e.). i wouldnt treat this as badly since it can happen if you are being carried away by playing with friends who might be far worse than you, but you keep playing for fun/dont carre about points (the rewarding ladder exception applies here too of course)
this depends on evidence: if its clear that the observer and a player were abusing pings/information (which luckily can be discovered if you demand a replay of one of them), than this is a 'human maphack' case were the program was substituted with a human foulplayer masquerading as observer. treat this the hardest way possible. however the evidence must be 100% clear since this can be a setup by the observer/stupid observer who doesnt shit about AC too and in this case id say players/judges should decide together whether a regame is at hand or the game was unrecoverably in favour of one player before the incident happened. the observer should be at least punished by not being able to observe any more games of the event(even if he did it unknowingly)
i would treat this the softest of all, because its quite possible the player produced the glitch(es) without wanting too (thats why they are called glitches afterall); if the player won by using glitches when he couldnt have won otherwise a regame should be performed, if he was behind when using glitches to stay alive stall his death/disc whatever it should be forfeit loss. just my thoughts on the issues i hope that helped consequences for 'cheaters': repeated (as in 'looks like this is his/her system, but not quite sure though' ) happenings of unwillingly caused 'cheating' should lead to a disqualification from the event it accured on, but shouldnt ban the player from future events (benefit of doubt), if however one of the undeniable willingly-cheating instances occur it should be handled that the player is banned from this event(s)(even future ones), unless he provides non-cheating evidence for a sufficient time set by the judges(half a year to a year f.e.) which gives him a chance to 'qualify' again for the events he was previously banned from) e.g.: hacker got cought judges ban him hacker provides prove he stopped hacking for a year(maybe play each game withz mogulus on and put ALL of them on the on demand list) after this year he may be allowed to participate again. id handle it that way because some people are able to actually learn something from there mistakes. however if a cheater who provided his non-cheating prove reparticipated after his ban time span and then got caught cheating(the clear stuff not the doubtful one) again id say screw him and go for a livetime ban since he cant be trusted and works the system... phew /end textwall edited for anti-smiling issues...argggg and edited again for grammar/clarifications T_T my english sucks | ||
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
On August 31 2009 21:19 Slow Motion wrote: I am against capital punishment for hackers as I am fundamentally opposed to the death penalty. Any other form of punishment is okay though. haha i laughed so hard at this | ||
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Sharp-eYe
Canada642 Posts
On August 31 2009 21:30 QibingZero wrote: As everyone else has said, ladder abuse is much less of a crime than the others (and glitching isn't as serious as the other two, but still affects another player). I'm not going to go on and on, as I think all the points I could make on that subject have already been made. However, there is a note about 'punishment'. Is it really more punishment that a person is banned from TL than it would be if they had stayed? Just think about it - if clazz had not been banned, every single post he made for a while would be followed up with hate. No one would trust anything he did, either. Regardless of the amount of work he might put into trying to become a full member of the community again, there will still be people who will dislike him for hacking. Is that really less punishment than being banned? If we were worried about punishment, we'd let the community take care of it. I don't think this is TL's stance though. The idea is not that TL feels the need to punish, it's that TL is a place that is strongly against hacking and does not accept members who hack. We sit here and revere the Korean scene and it's progamers on a daily basis. We hold their accomplishments as the pinnacle of what you can achieve in not only this game but in all of e-sports. And out of everything there is not even a thought of hacking. In the end, hacking is the absolute antithesis of all that TL.net is about. It insults the game itself: from LAN parties with friends who all have 50apm, all the way up to the OSL finals. We simply love Starcraft - that's what this comes down to. We love this game too much to tolerate it being degraded into the ground. Its not so much about "punishment." In my opinion, we just want them to gtfo. now. Yes, I agree, no one will trust hackers/abusers once they abuse. edit: sorry I didnt read your post carefully. I agree totally. | ||
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SkelA
Macedonia13069 Posts
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strongwind
United States862 Posts
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SkelA
Macedonia13069 Posts
Leave tha banning where it actualy matters like iccup, leagues , tournaments , rankings they should get 1 year ban for first offence and permaban for 2nd. | ||
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