EPTAttitudes toward cheaters - Page 11
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SanguineToss
Canada815 Posts
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jtype
England2167 Posts
Would you rather have a solid community contributor, with a history of hacking (could be just one isolated incident), on your forums, or 50 (non-hacking) forum members that don't contribute anything at all? I know this seems like a silly question, probably, but I think it's worth thinking about. I've never hacked/cheated in a multiplayer (computer) game and don't really understand that mindset, but if I had done so, for whatever reason and to whatever degree, I would like my community contributions to be taken into account. I personally think that a reasonable punishment would be to ban the hacker from any community tournaments for a period of time, as well as sending their name and known IDs to iCCup for them to deal with it, possibly to ban them from laddering for a while. These punishments could be extended for repeat offences. Name and shame them on the forums, by all means, but why ban them from posting, unless they are publicly defending, promoting or otherwise justifying their behavior? | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
 . Too bad, I liked the guy. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On September 01 2009 05:04 jtype wrote: There's a lot of people that are very eager to dish out permanent punishments here, which is understandable, and certainly more understandable than hacking/cheating in the first place, but I would be interested to know how the TL staff feel about this: Would you rather have a solid community contributor, with a history of hacking (could be just one isolated incident), on your forums, or 50 (non-hacking) forum members that don't contribute anything at all? I know this seems like a silly question, probably, but I think it's worth thinking about. I don't think this is worth talking about - it's purely a hypothetical that isn't really relevant to the argument here. People are drawing these relations between hacking and contributing. They are unrelated. If i hacked in a tournament i would expect you to IP ban me - the same for any staff member. Hacking is not only a huge disrespect to your opponent but the people who spend countless hours organizing and administrating tournaments/leagues etc. There is no relation between contributing and hacking - there are hundreds of contributors on Teamliquid who do not hack, nor have they ever dreamed of doing so. Hack = ban. That simple. | ||
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masami.sc
United States445 Posts
— After 1 season or 3 months, you will be able to play again, but you won't be allowed to play again with your old account name. iCCup states, "Everyone should get a second chance." I think a permanent ban on a community forum is a bit harsh... | ||
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Psyonic_Reaver
United States4342 Posts
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starflash
190 Posts
it is also that people are easily influenced nomatter their age, since cheating/trolling with friends is FUN as FUCK | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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TwilightStar
United States649 Posts
* Ladder abuse by free wins * Observer cheating * Using illegal in game glitches (things that corrupt replays, are banned in torunaments, etc) 1: In my opinion, this is the least forgivable of the rest. It actually alters the gameplay giving an extremely unfair advantage 2: This is a problem, but not as bad as using an actual hacking program or something. It's easy to find abusers and see that they are complete noobies! 3: Almost as bad as #1 4: The only in-game 'glitch' I'd consider bad is allied-mines, Because you should always be un-allied to your opponent or you apparently want to have a peace treaty with them :D Stacked worker -> Attack is a part of the game that hasn't been fixed, I really don't consider it that big of a deal. I actually use it to defend ling rushes (if you time it correctly, it can work great) | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On September 01 2009 06:32 masami.sc wrote: I agree with iCCup's policy on hackers. You can see the new rules concerning hackers here: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/sc_ladder_rules.html — After 1 season or 3 months, you will be able to play again, but you won't be allowed to play again with your old account name. iCCup states, "Everyone should get a second chance." I think a permanent ban on a community forum is a bit harsh... I'm not 100% sure if I agree with kennigit but 3 months is DEFINITELY not long enough. 3 months is nothing. | ||
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Mastermind
Canada7096 Posts
On September 01 2009 06:42 Kennigit wrote: I think putting a finite time limit on a ban for hacking (at least in the community sense) is a big mistake. Hacking should be make so inexcusable that no one would dare risk it, lest they meet the same fate as "good" people before them. Let this be a lesson - if you hack, we will find you and destroy you. I fully agree with this. | ||
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mg
88 Posts
Specifically with someone like Clazziquai, I think a long temp ban should have been in order other than a permaban just because he's put a lot into the community and a lapse of judgment, albeit lame, is still a lapse. I think someone said in the ban list thread that he hacked in his own tournament he put on and that's far worse than him hacking in the first place to rank up. So, that might have warranted the permaban over a long temp ban. EDIT: Eh, after thinking about it a bit more, I think not giving a permaban to someone who has contributed to the community would set a pretty bad precedent. So, never mind. | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12248 Posts
I'd be okay with either way, but in both situations the ban (whether from the entire site or from the BW/Strategy forums) should be permanent in my opinion. | ||
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inertinept
Bangladesh1195 Posts
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Alizee-
United States845 Posts
I always felt the SC community was way too relax, if you look at CS people feel much more harshly, you cheat then you're done as far as leagues go. Especially going forward with things, presumably, getting bigger and bigger I just see no reason to give people second chances when they're often already given benefit of the doubt. People have to accept responsibility for actions and a way to cheat and still being able to come back means little. Game glitching is on the same par as 3rd party hacks unless they're minor minor glitches, but all the same its trying to get an unfair advantage. It ultimately boils down to the fact that the individual felt they needed to do something in order to get ahead which in and of itself makes it wrong to do. | ||
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Meta
United States6228 Posts
Once a hacker always a hacker, burn them to the ground! | ||
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jtype
England2167 Posts
On September 01 2009 06:14 Kennigit wrote: I don't think this is worth talking about - it's purely a hypothetical that isn't really relevant to the argument here. People are drawing these relations between hacking and contributing. They are unrelated. If i hacked in a tournament i would expect you to IP ban me - the same for any staff member. Hacking is not only a huge disrespect to your opponent but the people who spend countless hours organizing and administrating tournaments/leagues etc. There is no relation between contributing and hacking - there are hundreds of contributors on Teamliquid who do not hack, nor have they ever dreamed of doing so. Hack = ban. That simple. OK, fair enough. That's actually a reasonable viewpoint from TL staff, which is all I was hoping for.  | ||
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Meta
United States6228 Posts
On September 01 2009 00:46 Zoler wrote: I don't agree. Same can be said about all crimes. Should we just put a life sentence on all crimes? That's fucked up! This isn't about being a criminal, it's about shaking the very foundation of Starcraft as a legitimate sport. Every hacker caught is another point added to the list of reasons why some people wouldn't take this game seriously. This is about destroying the game itself in the eyes of potential future fans. No hacking is basically the ONLY rule in competitive video gaming. If you break that rule you're fucked. End of story. | ||
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Eniram
Sudan3166 Posts
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PyroDog
United States59 Posts
If you hack, life long ban. 0 tolerance. It's the best way to deal with those jerks. Ladder Abuse by free wins = A relatively victimless crime. Much easier to catch and detect, the person who does it is an idiot since it accomplishes 0 purpose, and if they play against real opponents at the "supposed" level they reached, they'll get raped. Yay. Still, it should be punished, since if ENOUGH people did this, it'd total ruin the ladder. Some sort of minor ban should be called into effect. Uh... What's obs cheating? lol? As for using illegal in-game glitches, some sort of moderate punishment is needed. Luckily, these aren't that hard to detect, so again, the punishment doesn't need to be as severe, but if they do ruin games. Some moderate ban should be in effect. | ||
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