EPTIn general I favor permabans. I just don't see the point of hacking and TL should have a tough stance on it. I know this is a small post, but I want to get my 2 cents in.
Attitudes toward cheaters - Page 7
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Vasoline73
United States7816 Posts
In general I favor permabans. I just don't see the point of hacking and TL should have a tough stance on it. I know this is a small post, but I want to get my 2 cents in. | ||
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pr0t0ss
Russian Federation57 Posts
forever fair play is natural base of esport cheaters are like perverts who corrupt the pure challenge of minds and change the meaning of this challenge by making win fact the only that matter hacks should be punished as hard as it possible to prevent fair gamers to play any single game against cheaters | ||
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pr0t0ss
Russian Federation57 Posts
Clazz or anyone who hacked should be banned from game for some LONG period of time 2 years is enought period to check if person changed or not | ||
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deL
Australia5540 Posts
People who hack are generally just hackers by nature - they can change of course (especially if, for example, they started hacking through curiosity or something and found it hard to revert back to playing the game the hard way) but that won't be solved with leniency. Of course there are some cases in which the hacker will obviously not change. However, it is still unfair to treat people differently for what is essentially the exact same offence. Magnitude of punishment I can't really comment on, although it's hard to give second chances when it is unknown whether you can catch the person performing the same action again - as is potentially the case with hacking. Observer cheating I have a particular hate for in a competitive or ladder environment (amongst friends or in a pub server it is really just an annoyance), as it is sneaky and deceiptive. In my view the person/s can never be trusted. In-game glitches are less clear - it is still cheating but so is glancing over to someone in a test just to check one question - you don't deserve to be kicked out of school for that. I'd say repeat offences are the main issue here, so that in one-off cases the discounting of any games involved and a warning/small ban is just punishment enough. Ladder abuse I think should just be discouraged, and the viewpoints on such very well known. There is little essential difference in my opinion where one player might play his friend in 3 or 4 games to get his C+ rank earlier as compared to picking on low win-rate, low-points C/C- players. Still, soething should be in place to discourage and punish it as it underines the whole point of competitive ladders. TL is full of inconsistencies. Some people are banned for life, but make new accounts and come back. How do you feel about this. Should there be forgiveness? Does what someone does outside the game (organization, contributions, etc) be factored into things? How would you like to see them dealt with? I am very much against treating others differently - everyone can present their case and whether you believe it or not is a different thing but I would not like to be given a second chance just because I post some nice Live Report threads now and then or translate something for somebody. Guidelines should be set for the admins but ultimately it is up to them as to how the rules are interpreted and punished and they should be trusted to do the right thing (or else not be admins). If you are conscious about doing something ethically wrong or inconsistent, why not have a section in which admin decisions are reviewed by peers and any abnormalities discussed, with the admin's peers effecting a kind of governing body on admin issues? Forgiveness, I agree with to a certain degree - as long as it is kept as a punishment and not an excuse for them to take amonth long vacation. People should be very dissuaded to do bannable offences. Hope any of this helps you in your judgement :3 | ||
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XeliN
United Kingdom1755 Posts
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ssj114
Afghanistan461 Posts
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food
United States1951 Posts
Worst kind of hacking, permaban( not for disc hack, i dont think it belongs here, id place it with illegal game glitches). If these people come back in a year or so and prove themselves they might be allowed to exist on a different account but probably not trusted for a long time * Ladder abuse by free wins Just ban the account on server, obviously give another chance. * Observer cheating Only in important games( ladder cws, important cws, tournaments etc) Otherwise not ban worthy, sometimes a random retard/clan mate msgs you stuff ingame even when no one asked him to. Happened plenty of times on east. Friendly games doesnt even matter. This one should really be case specific. * Using illegal in game glitches (things that corrupt replays, are banned in tournaments, etc) Reset, reverse results, warning. | ||
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Vasoline73
United States7816 Posts
On August 31 2009 17:45 XeliN wrote: This is fundamentally a game, talk of permanent bans e.t.c seems ridiculous to be me and I don't like the way this seems to be equated with committing a crime. that said banning these people for a time from competative leagues or tournaments seems fine, but i would only think banning people from a community if they are known to repeatedly hack or show exceptionally bad attitude when found out. If there are no consequences for "only hacking a couple of times" then it's stupid + no one is really going to care about stopping themselves from hacking. The community should set harsh rules, and when someone comes back on an AKA in 6+ months, they should receive a fair amount of stigma or rebanned. Otherwise, hacking is accepted. In Clazz's case I think he can come back and fix his reputation if mods choose to allow it... but it should always be on his record... And it's fundamentally a game as much as this is fundamentally just a stupid web forum dedicated to some video game. If hackers wanna waste people's time hacking in a game, they shouldn't be in the community. They can hack all they want from outside. After all, if they hack because it's just a game, why would they care to be on a forum dedicated to some stupid game they don't even respect enough to play fairly? | ||
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food
United States1951 Posts
On August 31 2009 17:53 Vasoline73 wrote: If there are no consequences for "only hacking a couple of times" then it's stupid absolutely, its hard as it is to prove someone hacks and if theres a method to pick off those players it has to be enforced strictly. You might not get lucky catching someone hacking even 2nd time since hes going to be careful. | ||
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pr0t0ss
Russian Federation57 Posts
any hack can be antihacked, and antihack can be overhacked so it is periodical process anyway, by creating and developing hacks and antihacks the only you can do to fight hacking is do your best by making antihacks for knowing hacks, and give maximum reasonable punishment for using hacks it must be like 2 years ban for first hack detecting, and forever ban for long period using hack or second time detecting | ||
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Husky
United States3362 Posts
Sure, they can cheat their way to B- on ICCUP right now, but ICCUP is old and outdated. That system is going to be like comparing a horse and buggy with a nascar once Starcraft 2 comes out. I honestly dont think cheating will be a problem for a long time, if ever, once Bnet 2.0 is here. That said, I still think its completely disgusting that people would cheat for wins. I can kind of understand cheating on the current bnet because theres no way to check your opponents skill, no way to know if they're cheating or talking on vent with friends, etc etc. But with ICCUP its the closest thing we have to a professional online league for now so its a shame to see people try to abuse it. Basically: If you cheat, you're filth, but we all know you're going to suck at SC2 anyway. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
Abusing illegal glitches... not as bad as hacking, can be easily detected, and reported. There I believe there could be a warning, then a temp ban, then a perma ban. Ladder abuse is pretty similar to illegal glitches, except slightly not as bad in my opinion. It's not really screwing anyone else over except denying hte legitimacy of the system. Warning, temp ban, then permaban as well with that (not saying I condone it, just the "least of all the evils). | ||
RaGe
Belgium9949 Posts
On August 31 2009 17:56 HuskyTheHusky wrote: This might sound kind of weird but honestly if someone is stupid enough to cheat today they are just going to get steam-rolled in SC2. Blizzard is very good at getting rid of cheats (take WoW for example) and this will be implemented to the fullest degree in SC2. Sure, they can cheat their way to B- on ICCUP right now, but ICCUP is old and outdated. That system is going to be like comparing a horse and buggy with a nascar once Starcraft 2 comes out. I honestly dont think cheating will be a problem for a long time, if ever, once Bnet 2.0 is here. That said, I still think its completely disgusting that people would cheat for wins. I can kind of understand cheating on the current bnet because theres no way to check your opponents skill, no way to know if they're cheating or talking on vent with friends, etc etc. But with ICCUP its the closest thing we have to a professional online league for now so its a shame to see people try to abuse it. Basically: If you cheat, you're filth, but we all know you're going to suck at SC2 anyway. Ugh. Not everyone is preparing for SC2. And why would that make them suck at SC2? Because they have to cheat to get a higher rank in SC, they'll have to do the same in SC2? By that logic, you'll be absolute garbage in SC2, because a maphack wouldn't even get you anywhere close to good in SC. Basically, your post is completely, utterly retarded. Thanks for your contribution.. | ||
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JohnColtrane
Australia4813 Posts
i dont think someone should be banned for eternity. sure cheating is immoral, but its just a game. most of the time nobody loses money out of this (unless its a big tourney or starleague, im not sure on the details just in general) and its not really that serious of an issue imo. maphacking - serious but not that serious in this context. not worthy of an eternity ban lol ladder abuse - bit more serious because you havent cheated one person but a bunch of people that you bypassed observer cheating - same as maphacking i guess illegal glitches - not nearly as serious as the others, its just a glitch, maybe banned for the rest of the tournament or DQed im not sure i figure this is for clazz judging from the posts and hes a pretty solid member here so im definitely not in favour of him being banned for a long time. i disagree with with ladder abuse being not as serious as the others. if you maphack, you cheat one person. if you ladder abuse, you cheat all the people you have bypassed going up the ladder because youve essentially won points and climbed above them without doing anything. its like maphacking a whole bunch of people to me. this being said i dont take cheating in general bnet very seriously. if someone maps me im like 'wow what a faggot' but thats all that happens. forget about it the next day and dont really follow it up because it doesnt bother me very much. i guess if i was doing something for money or even as a job id be pissed and more action would be needed. but really its just a game for me so it doesnt concern me much and i dont hunger for the hacker's blood for mapping or glitching or what have you i like playing games but i dont take them so seriously that i think someone who hacks or abuses should be booted for life. i have no idea how you will set the punishment for that, but too me it seems wayyyyy overboard banning someone for a long period of time for cheating once, especially in a semi serious community that just plays for fun my 2 cents | ||
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Badjas
Netherlands2038 Posts
Perhaps the icon should be click-able to a thread or post with an explanation of the hacking history, for better personal judgment when playing the person again and as a historical explanation. | ||
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Vasoline73
United States7816 Posts
On August 31 2009 18:23 RaGe wrote: Ugh. Not everyone is preparing for SC2. And why would that make them suck at SC2? Because they have to cheat to get a higher rank in SC, they'll have to do the same in SC2? By that logic, you'll be absolute garbage in SC2, because a maphack wouldn't even get you anywhere close to good in SC. Basically, your post is completely, utterly retarded. Thanks for your contribution.. lol totally brutal honesty  . To respond also, I'm sure hacks will come out for Bnet 2.0 eventually. The deciding factor is Blizzard and keeping their anti hack updated... So I'm sure that hackers will always look for new ways to hack.. might as well weed them out whenever we get the chance | ||
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JohnColtrane
Australia4813 Posts
On August 31 2009 18:42 Badjas wrote: I don't think hackers need to be banned for life. I rather like the icon option that has been mentioned here before. The hacker can choose, after sitting out punishment, to go back here and perhaps contribute for real, while everyone else has a permanent reminder of the risks involved. And the risks involved, is the primary motivator for a perma-ban. Once a hacker, always a hacker. But one cannot be sure that people won't better their gaming lives, an icon serves as a good middle ground. Perhaps the icon should be click-able to a thread or post with an explanation of the hacking history, for better personal judgment when playing the person again and as a historical explanation. expanding on that, maybe a gaming rating based on how honest your play is? for eg. everyone starts off at 0 except for some really manner players judged by the community or mods, and people that have been known to cheat in some way go into the negatives. say, -5 for first offense glitching in a tournament, -15 for maphacking, -20 for cheating in a tournament involving money etc. and it adds up as you cheat more and more until a certain threshold which results in a permaban make it known that people have cheated in some way, and give them an opportunity to work themselves back to 0 | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
Even if I come across a mh user every once in a while it's rare enough on iccup that I don't really see any point in wasting the energy that I notice many tlers are putting into raging over those incidents. Not the end of the world. Edit: I also fail to see the responsibility of TL.net as a community dedicated to pro-gaming and related discussions to ban people merely based on the fact that they used some 3d party program on iccup. It doesn't make much sense, as long as they behave well and contribute otherwise. Of course you're free to do as you please. Seems a bit like banning someone for getting a parking ticket or some other unrelated minor offence though. | ||
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Vasoline73
United States7816 Posts
On August 31 2009 19:06 hifriend wrote: While I don't appreciate cheating for obvious reasons, the behavior of people flaming those that are caught for or suspected of cheating in various threads often appear much more disgusting to me than the act of cheating in itself. Personally I don't really mind cheating in it's current form. And to be honest I'm almost certain most of us has experimented a little at some point in our bw carreer (hopefully not on a ladder or any other competetive environment though.) Even if I come across a mh user every once in a while it's rare enough on iccup that I don't really see any point in wasting the energy that I notice many tlers are putting into raging over those incidents. Not the end of the world. Except some people.. really.. have never tried hacking . I'm a hack virgin! Sue me. And really, I could care less, but TL is the authority and they're the authority for a reason. Always kept a clean community and have always had a tightly run ship. I feel like to let hackers off the hook is to accept it as something that is ok and unstoppable. Clearly it will always exist in some form, but it should always be punished. I just want to reiterate, I don't hate any hacker... if I met someone from the internet in real life, im not gonna like cold shoulder them.. it IS just a game. That being said.. this is the forum.. you know.. dedicated to that game -_-;;;;;; | ||
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rA.Hippie
Denmark714 Posts
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