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On August 19 2009 14:18 NoobsOfWrath wrote:
The muta would die every time because that fool will argue with you until he dies from old age. That guy argues until his "opponent" decides to give up, so it's pointless to try to do so. Of course the muta can get to the bunker without dying. And I'll gladly use 4 mutas on 2 bunkers to ensure my ling lurker army will beat the bunkers in my backstab.
Lol ...fuck you.
But you also completely suck at broodwar(even more than me). So who really cares what you'd do? BoX tvz me T? Feel free to bunker stall all you want.
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ok so I saw the pics on page 3 and this seems to work, how exactly do you do it?
Is it practical in a real game?
If so, How do you counter it?
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Wow! That's happened to me when I was playing against the CPU. The Missile Turret didn't shoot my Observer or Scouts when I flew on it. This must be a strange glitch.
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i know this cool glitch where you can take ur marines out of the bunkers and group them with other units that are not in your bunkers and then target the unit flying over your bunker. it's called focus fire
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damn so it is true. this stuff is so weird..
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On August 19 2009 20:12 CharlieMurphy wrote:
ok so I saw the pics on page 3 and this seems to work, how exactly do you do it?
m+click until the unit is centered over the bunker. It's very simple, anyone can do it with a little practice.
Is it practical in a real game?
Possibly. I don't play melee, but I imagine someone with a little creativity could develop a ZvT build order that would force a bunker that could then be exploited. The situation it's extremely dangerous for the terran is if they have one or two bunkers full of marines but their marine force is elsewhere. At this point mutas could then freeze the bunkers and what ordinarily would've been more than enough defense would break to even a small ling force.
If so, How do you counter it?
Killing the muta on top of the bunker is the only way to get the bunkered marines to retarget without unloading them and reloading them.
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On August 19 2009 17:59 Live2Win wrote:Ok I checked out the replay. That was fucking amazing.... seriously I can't believe this hasn't been abused yet! I see this EXTREMELY useful in ZvT, in multiple scenarios, the first one being a really useful one in my opinion. 1) Defending bunker rushes. If a terran tries to bunker rush you with SCVs, a lot of times it's a battle of preventing marines from getting into that bunker. Well if you can get your Overlord to cover that bunker and freezeit, that gives you plenty of time to put up a defense and neutralizing his bunker rush. 2) Attacking defensive terrans with bunker line, as a low-econ zerg. If you're playing as low-econ zerg, and you need to break his FE but he's defending with bunkers, and you know u can break him wide open if you just break his defense once, this could be a really worth-while thing to try. If you're going muta/ling just place a single mutalisk on top of each bunker and those bunkers are completely neutralized. 3) If you're going for a counter-attack while the terran's main forces are attacking your base, you could upgrade ovie-speed and bring in 4/5 overlords with your main army and cut his defense in half by neutralizing the bunkers and turrets.... Seeing as how the freezes were done so easily and multiple times I think with a little practice this could be used as often as stop-lurkers. Infact I could see this being the next "new micro thing" like muta-stacking or patrol-micro or valkyrie-backfiring has become over the last few years.
Unfortunately overlords are not combat units and bunkers will retarget to combat units from them, pretty sure they retarget to drones too. However, an overlord over a bunker will probably get targeted before a hatchery would, which means as long as the zerg can keep that overlord alive (by killing the marines that have to be outside of the bunker to target the overlord) an overlord could in some situations prevent a hatchery from being fired on.
The real potential is in using combat units to freeze since under no circumstances would the bunker be able to retarget without unloading, and turrets would have to be manually controlled.
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In the case of a bunker rush, Terrans can counter an overlord bunker freeze by just unloading marines, sniping overlord, and getting back in.
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Yeah it's probably not too practical since you'd most likely lose the overlord, but even so I could see it being useful in delaying the terran in very rare circumstances. Marines that make it into the bunker for a bunker rush are often low hp, having to unload them to snipe the overlord could potentially allow the zerg to kill them. Using overlords, especially slow overlords, would just be a cute trick more than anything else.
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Wow spend a day out on the town and this stuff gets so out of hand. Kudos to intergral for keeping things alive. When I mentioned that "it only seemed to work on bunkers with normal ghosts" or whatever, I was talking about the weird probe glitch. Because to my knowledge, we haven't been able to replicate that anywhere else. I'll update the first post with screenshots/replays etc. now.
And you guys have to remember, bunkers only don't retarget if the unit freezing is a combat unit. Or in some bizarre scenario's, a dropship ith a worker in it :s
I'm actually sort of surprised nobody knows about this
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On August 19 2009 07:46 d(O.o)a wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 07:32 never_toss wrote:
so.. i could do this with sairs over bunkers/turrets amirite?
I suppose you should move ur units with M->click, otherwise they'll attack, right?
yeah or you could ally and right click, totally un-necessary but I could actually see it happening in a play/obs game on USWest or USEast where T tries to do allied mines and Z tries to stall turret or bunk like that (It'd never happen but it would be hilarious the game ending that way)
how would the game end? both of them check "allied victory?"
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United States17042 Posts
the rep in melee is pretty freaking cool. Go watch it, come back, and tell us it isn't useful.
that being said, op needs to be edited >.>
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United States17042 Posts
On August 20 2009 01:34 StRyKeR wrote:
In the case of a bunker rush, Terrans can counter an overlord bunker freeze by just unloading marines, sniping overlord, and getting back in.
yes, although that dosen't sound easy/practical when you're talking about the standard 8 rax -> bunker, as it allows a few more seconds for the lings/drones to get close.
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On August 20 2009 01:56 Ian Ian Ian wrote:
Wow spend a day out on the town and this stuff gets so out of hand. Kudos to intergral for keeping things alive. When I mentioned that "it only seemed to work on bunkers with normal ghosts" or whatever, I was talking about the weird probe glitch. Because to my knowledge, we haven't been able to replicate that anywhere else. I'll update the first post with screenshots/replays etc. now.
And you guys have to remember, bunkers only don't retarget if the unit freezing is a combat unit. Or in some bizarre scenario's, a dropship ith a worker in it :s
I'm actually sort of surprised nobody knows about this
It's still not clear, ian, since you said combat unit in your initial post.. The glitch we're still trying to figure out is why combat units outside of a dropship don't get targeted but a noncombat unit inside a dropship does. The way you wrote it you're asking a question we both already know the answer to.
Glad you edited the OP though, was getting tired of the kids thinking it didn't work in melee.
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Okay I edited it again.
And really this has nothing at all to do with triggers, idk why it would work in one map and not another.
And if freezing a turret with an obs has a use then this certainly does. Neutralizing a bunker can be.. huge?
Also, a little detail that I might add. I'm pretty positive that for the bunker to get frozen, it has to be targetting the unit that is going to freeze it before it actually gets frozen. If you watch my second replay you'll see me mess up once because both bunkers target the same valk. So, sending a swarm of muta's to freeze 3 bunks would be very tricky. You could also theoretically refreeze the bunker very quickly if the terran player unloads/reloads.
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Hell, if I can freeze two bunkers, I'm sure any decent player with a little timing practice could freeze more. But I rarely see more than one or two bunkers anyway.
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On August 20 2009 00:52 integral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 17:59 Live2Win wrote:On August 19 2009 04:45 integral wrote:On August 19 2009 04:31 StorrZerg wrote:
Everyone is to lazy, or busy, or is incapable of getting on bnet. thats funny I just made a melee replay for you lazy people. http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=19090 Ok I checked out the replay. That was fucking amazing.... seriously I can't believe this hasn't been abused yet! I see this EXTREMELY useful in ZvT, in multiple scenarios, the first one being a really useful one in my opinion. 1) Defending bunker rushes. If a terran tries to bunker rush you with SCVs, a lot of times it's a battle of preventing marines from getting into that bunker. Well if you can get your Overlord to cover that bunker and freezeit, that gives you plenty of time to put up a defense and neutralizing his bunker rush. 2) Attacking defensive terrans with bunker line, as a low-econ zerg. If you're playing as low-econ zerg, and you need to break his FE but he's defending with bunkers, and you know u can break him wide open if you just break his defense once, this could be a really worth-while thing to try. If you're going muta/ling just place a single mutalisk on top of each bunker and those bunkers are completely neutralized. 3) If you're going for a counter-attack while the terran's main forces are attacking your base, you could upgrade ovie-speed and bring in 4/5 overlords with your main army and cut his defense in half by neutralizing the bunkers and turrets.... Seeing as how the freezes were done so easily and multiple times I think with a little practice this could be used as often as stop-lurkers. Infact I could see this being the next "new micro thing" like muta-stacking or patrol-micro or valkyrie-backfiring has become over the last few years. Unfortunately overlords are not combat units and bunkers will retarget to combat units from them, pretty sure they retarget to drones too. However, an overlord over a bunker will probably get targeted before a hatchery would, which means as long as the zerg can keep that overlord alive (by killing the marines that have to be outside of the bunker to target the overlord) an overlord could in some situations prevent a hatchery from being fired on. The real potential is in using combat units to freeze since under no circumstances would the bunker be able to retarget without unloading, and turrets would have to be manually controlled.
mmmm.... I guess that changes a lot then. I'm gonna juggle my brain a little with this and see what can be imba with this.
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Well, this is just a small piece of an even bigger glitch I think. I've had it where I've told a hydralisk to hold position while attacking a rax/depot wall and when a unit with greater range (usually a tank) begins to attack it it just freezes up. Even if the depot it was previously attacking is still in range.
If you think about it, this is probably how the lurker-hold trick works as well. The version where you tell it to attack a building under the fog of war, of course.
This is starting to look like a problem Blizzard should fix. Since the observer-over-turret glitch is banned from most leagues and as far as I know, so is the lurker-hold. I mean, the ability to put a defensive structure such as a bunker out of commision? That's imbalanced. Ridiculously so if you think about trying to do this with a unit as cheap as scourge and 8 lings or so. One scourge for each bunker, take the bunkers down with the lings and then the expo is easy pickings. Where as, without using this glitch even one bunker would own those lings. And I shudder to imagine what lurkers could do to natural expos if people where to learn how to exploit this properly.
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Scourges would die, but you have the idea
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On August 19 2009 07:54 integral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 07:32 never_toss wrote:
so.. i could do this with sairs over bunkers/turrets amirite?
I suppose you should move ur units with M->click, otherwise they'll attack, right?
Yes, you have to spam m+click for air-to-ground attack units. Sairs and valks and devourers and scourge you can just spam right click. Unfortunately, I can't think of a time when you would have sairs in PvT that would make this useful. Scouts would be a more likely application, and scouts aren't exactly common ... lol. I think the only matchup where this has potentially game-changing (or rule-changing) application is in TvZ.
Since sairs are way cheaper than scouts lol, i would find this usefull as a break attack. Just like the bulldog, 1 or 2 sairs could help screw the defense over.
Plus, it would be way better to spam right click than M click on that matter 
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EPT
