EPTI suppose you should move ur units with M->click, otherwise they'll attack, right?
Bunker Freeze - Page 4
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andiCR
Costa Rica2273 Posts
I suppose you should move ur units with M->click, otherwise they'll attack, right? | ||
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
On August 19 2009 07:32 never_toss wrote: so.. i could do this with sairs over bunkers/turrets amirite? I suppose you should move ur units with M->click, otherwise they'll attack, right? yeah or you could ally and right click, totally un-necessary but I could actually see it happening in a play/obs game on USWest or USEast where T tries to do allied mines and Z tries to stall turret or bunk like that (It'd never happen but it would be hilarious the game ending that way) | ||
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integral
United States3161 Posts
On August 19 2009 07:32 never_toss wrote: so.. i could do this with sairs over bunkers/turrets amirite? I suppose you should move ur units with M->click, otherwise they'll attack, right? Yes, you have to spam m+click for air-to-ground attack units. Sairs and valks and devourers and scourge you can just spam right click. Unfortunately, I can't think of a time when you would have sairs in PvT that would make this useful. Scouts would be a more likely application, and scouts aren't exactly common ... lol. I think the only matchup where this has potentially game-changing (or rule-changing) application is in TvZ. | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On August 19 2009 07:00 Nevuk wrote: Not banned in pro games at all. Tasteless was talking about it quite a bit during Gom when people were doing it, how it's banned WCG and he had to DQ Stork for doing it because stork was so used to it being used. Edit : I've also seen it being used on neo medusa in pvt at some point within the last few monhts. Stork wasnt DQed the game was replayed. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
 I mean its impossible to actually base a tactical manuever on this, unlike turret stalling with an ob. | ||
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integral
United States3161 Posts
On August 19 2009 08:06 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: Because its so rare that its not a big deal at all I mean its impossible to actually base a tactical manuever on this, unlike turret stalling with an ob.What are you talking about? At least two full bunkers side-by-side can be completely neutralized by two mutalisks, then you can kill those bunkers with anything else. Observer over turret can be easily countered by rearranging the turret angle by pressing stop, bunker freezes cannot. It doesn't take a tactical genius to see how effective this can be. | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On August 19 2009 08:16 integral wrote: What are you talking about? At least two full bunkers side-by-side can be completely neutralized by two mutalisks, then you can kill those bunkers with anything else. Observer over turret can be easily countered by rearranging the turret angle by pressing stop, bunker freezes cannot. It doesn't take a tactical genius to see how effective this can be. Because the vast majority of the time the bunkers won't be stalled at all....was that too hard to understand? | ||
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StRyKeR
United States1756 Posts
I suppose you can bring like 6 mutas to stall 3 bunkers, but then clumped air units spread apart, so it'd be even harder to stall the bunkers. It's cool in theory but unless I see an example of someone with not-so-godly micro pull it off, I'm not gonna consider it practical. Not to mention, there's probably going to be turrets and other stuff around the bunkers. One lone bunker is feasible, but under normal circumstances, I don't see it as being practical. | ||
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integral
United States3161 Posts
On August 19 2009 08:26 TheFoReveRwaR wrote: Because the vast majority of the time the bunkers won't be stalled at all....was that too hard to understand? What are you even talking about? The bunkers freeze every time... this isn't some flip a coin thing, this is something I do on a daily basis. On August 19 2009 08:38 StRyKeR wrote: If the terran's guarding with 3 bunkers, I doubt that you can get mutalisks to stall the bunkers. I bet the mutas would die even without getting close to the bunker. I suppose you can bring like 6 mutas to stall 3 bunkers, but then clumped air units spread apart, so it'd be even harder to stall the bunkers. It's cool in theory but unless I see an example of someone with not-so-godly micro pull it off, I'm not gonna consider it practical. Not to mention, there's probably going to be turrets and other stuff around the bunkers. One lone bunker is feasible, but under normal circumstances, I don't see it as being practical. I don't have godly micro, I'm a UMS player... a D level player on Iccup and I can do this consistently. Dual turret and bunker freezes are a part of my daily gaming routine, certain countries in diplo greatly benefit from doing it. Yes it's currently theory in melee... especially since no one seems to know about this trick except for a small part of the diplo community. But it's really not too hard to imagine a zerg backstabbing a terran who only has static defense around, is it? Besides, any terran who doesn't know how to rearrange turrets to fire at a unit on top of them is going to be at a severe disadvantage if/when a zerg freezes their turrets with mutas. Even if they do, and the zerg saves only a few turret hits worth of hitpoints, god knows how many games have come down to just a few hitpoints. Also, I don't know about you but the only game I remember someone making three bunkers close together was leta vs type-b. And I imagine a zerg who practiced this trick, like the guy who practiced marine micro vs lurkers, could make a pretty big splash doing multiple-bunker freezes with perfect timing. Sure, dodging lurker spines isn't very practical, unless you have one marine left and they have one lurker left.  | ||
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On August 19 2009 08:45 integral wrote: What are you even talking about? The bunkers freeze every time... Not if the muta dies. Which would be the norm as stryker said. | ||
cgrinker
United States3824 Posts
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TheFoReveRwaR
United States10657 Posts
On August 19 2009 08:49 cgrinker wrote: Pics or it didn't happen err doesn't happen Pics have been posted | ||
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integral
United States3161 Posts
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Ganfei
Taiwan1439 Posts
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IceCube
Croatia1403 Posts
On August 19 2009 02:08 fanatacist wrote: If it never happens in melee then it's irrelevant imo. For me too, sry. | ||
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integral
United States3161 Posts
Read the thread, ffs. | ||
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Badjas
Netherlands2038 Posts
On August 19 2009 08:38 StRyKeR wrote: I suppose you can bring like 6 mutas to stall 3 bunkers, but then clumped air units spread apart, so it'd be even harder to stall the bunkers. The muta's wouldn't need to clump all together over the bunkers, a couple of muta's or other units can be used to draw fire first while individual mutas go for the stall. Useful, only if this really works in general, not ust on a specific version of a specific map. | ||
Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On August 19 2009 04:45 integral wrote: I just made a melee replay for you lazy people. http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=19090 Ok I checked out the replay. That was fucking amazing.... seriously I can't believe this hasn't been abused yet! I see this EXTREMELY useful in ZvT, in multiple scenarios, the first one being a really useful one in my opinion. 1) Defending bunker rushes. If a terran tries to bunker rush you with SCVs, a lot of times it's a battle of preventing marines from getting into that bunker. Well if you can get your Overlord to cover that bunker and freezeit, that gives you plenty of time to put up a defense and neutralizing his bunker rush. 2) Attacking defensive terrans with bunker line, as a low-econ zerg. If you're playing as low-econ zerg, and you need to break his FE but he's defending with bunkers, and you know u can break him wide open if you just break his defense once, this could be a really worth-while thing to try. If you're going muta/ling just place a single mutalisk on top of each bunker and those bunkers are completely neutralized. 3) If you're going for a counter-attack while the terran's main forces are attacking your base, you could upgrade ovie-speed and bring in 4/5 overlords with your main army and cut his defense in half by neutralizing the bunkers and turrets.... Seeing as how the freezes were done so easily and multiple times I think with a little practice this could be used as often as stop-lurkers. Infact I could see this being the next "new micro thing" like muta-stacking or patrol-micro or valkyrie-backfiring has become over the last few years. | ||
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
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