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Weird.. i have never seen this.
Does the flying unit have to be positioned right on top before it finally builds? or does it work by just right clicking a shuttle over it even if it was already built?
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I've seen this happen in larger melee games with turrets which led me to believe it was a sprite issue..
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I figured alot of players might not have seen it, simply because of what I said before, you never use it in melee.
Use any flying unit (except sci vessel I think, actually I've never tried it but w/e) and just right click on the bunker. Once it gets on top the bunker should freeze. I usually hit hold pos anyways real quick to make sure if it's a valk or something it doesn't take off. But if you use a building, it'll still shoot at ground units. If you use a flying unit it won't :s
There's another weird situation where I have a ghost bunk to the left of a tank in siege mode, and I move my cc down over top them but above slightly, then send a dropship of 8 probes to drop on the siege tank. If I drop 7 of the probes and keep the last in the ship, the ghosts shoot the cc still, if I drop the 8th probe it retargets :s
And no, not a sprite issue. I should really get a video up. Or I can show you if anyone can get on USEast
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can you provide a screen shot of this? i can't seem to replicate it with wraiths, buildings, dropships, valkyries, or science vessels. turret freezing only works with observers though.
EDIT: tried with observers as well, and it doesn't work.
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so weird. never heard of it
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On August 19 2009 02:00 Ian Ian Ian wrote:
There's another weird situation where I have a ghost bunk to the left of a tank in siege mode, and I move my cc down over top them but above slightly, then send a dropship of 8 probes to drop on the siege tank. If I drop 7 of the probes and keep the last in the ship, the ghosts shoot the cc still, if I drop the 8th probe it retargets :s
Holy crap that is a really really wierd senario, ha ha. I don't know what ever led you to try that, lmao.
Cool post though; really interesting.
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If it never happens in melee then it's irrelevant imo.
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Do these bugs might have to do with triggering, and using hyper triggers? I experience/use these bugs on UMS maps to gain an advantage, but I can't do it consistently. Sometimes when I use a Command Center, the bunker keeps targeting it even if i drop ground units to attack, when it should retarget.
Edit:Are you IanIanIan from USEast?
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I'm really awful at making VOD's 
I could see turret freezing happening in melee maybe, but having to freeze a bunk? Probably not. And a human playe can just unload anyways 
I can show you all the situations right now if anyone can get on USEast. My account on there is IanIanIan
On August 19 2009 02:08 For_The_Swarm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 02:00 Ian Ian Ian wrote:
There's another weird situation where I have a ghost bunk to the left of a tank in siege mode, and I move my cc down over top them but above slightly, then send a dropship of 8 probes to drop on the siege tank. If I drop 7 of the probes and keep the last in the ship, the ghosts shoot the cc still, if I drop the 8th probe it retargets :s Holy crap that is a really really wierd senario, ha ha. I don't know what ever led you to try that, lmao. Cool post though; really interesting.
And yeah, that made us think it had something to do with worker units. But we couldn't replicate it anywhere else, except where I let one drop die then the next had a worker in it and then it froze or something idk. It was weird
And I don't think they would be inovlved with hyper triggers. I know it's a UMS map that I did it on. But I froze a bunk in melee once too with a dropship, sort of by accident.
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share reps at least. Ive never seen these bugs.
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The bugs are pretty weird, but is it relative to Diplomacy-Infinity 2.8a, or does this occur in all UMS maps? Might want to test that out before coming to any other suggestions. I know the unload bug happens in 7.7, but I'm not sure about the rest.
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Yeah they are all in Infinity. The REALY REALLY weird scenario's I probably couldn't replicate. I bet I could do the others though. Someone work with me cmonn
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Yeah, I'll work with you, I'm trying to figure this out too, and how to do it consistently
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Kinda happens when something flies over a goliath, as the missile shoots and just keep flying in circles and it doesn't attack anymore.
And the most common occurrence in melee would probably be observer over a turret. Not so much in professional games or in iccup since they're both banned glitches that can get you DQed but I've done it before on bnet haha.
I'm guessing it occurs because it's kinda like a vulture planting mines. The vulture can't plant mines unless it moves a tiny distance, as in you can't plant a mine by clicking on the vulture. A turret isn't able to shoot directly upwards so it can't shoot anything directly above it. Maybe it's similar in some way with bunkers and ghosts.
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pics or it never happened
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On August 19 2009 02:21 BanZu wrote:
Kinda happens when something flies over a goliath, as the missile shoots and just keep flying in circles and it doesn't attack anymore.
And the most common occurrence in melee would probably be observer over a turret. Not so much in professional games or in iccup since they're both banned glitches that can get you DQed but I've done it before on bnet haha.
I'm guessing it occurs because it's kinda like a vulture planting mines. The vulture can't plant mines unless it moves a tiny distance, as in you can't plant a mine by clicking on the vulture. A turret isn't able to shoot directly upwards so it can't shoot anything directly above it. Maybe it's similar in some way with bunkers and ghosts.
obs over turret isn't banned iirc
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On August 19 2009 02:35 ilovelosses wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 02:21 BanZu wrote:
Kinda happens when something flies over a goliath, as the missile shoots and just keep flying in circles and it doesn't attack anymore.
And the most common occurrence in melee would probably be observer over a turret. Not so much in professional games or in iccup since they're both banned glitches that can get you DQed but I've done it before on bnet haha.
I'm guessing it occurs because it's kinda like a vulture planting mines. The vulture can't plant mines unless it moves a tiny distance, as in you can't plant a mine by clicking on the vulture. A turret isn't able to shoot directly upwards so it can't shoot anything directly above it. Maybe it's similar in some way with bunkers and ghosts. obs over turret isn't banned iirc
It's banned in pro games and in most tournaments.
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Really? I was under the impression that iCCup was one of the last places to allow obs over turret.
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On August 19 2009 02:38 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 02:35 ilovelosses wrote:On August 19 2009 02:21 BanZu wrote:
Kinda happens when something flies over a goliath, as the missile shoots and just keep flying in circles and it doesn't attack anymore.
And the most common occurrence in melee would probably be observer over a turret. Not so much in professional games or in iccup since they're both banned glitches that can get you DQed but I've done it before on bnet haha.
I'm guessing it occurs because it's kinda like a vulture planting mines. The vulture can't plant mines unless it moves a tiny distance, as in you can't plant a mine by clicking on the vulture. A turret isn't able to shoot directly upwards so it can't shoot anything directly above it. Maybe it's similar in some way with bunkers and ghosts. obs over turret isn't banned iirc It's banned in pro games and in most tournaments.
It's really easy to avoid though, you just press "S" on the turret in question, a bit like when Dragoons freeze.
I thought that it was allowed now on iCCup..
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I don't think ICCup is a tournament...
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From iCCup rules:Bugs/tricks in game: Allowed to use: ... — Observer Over turret
Yes, it is allowed on iCCup.
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On August 19 2009 02:47 fanatacist wrote:
I don't think ICCup is a tournament...
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If u got Problems with that glitch just move out ur marines or ur other units u have in cargo and attack that building or air unit then the problem must be gone ^^
If u have other Problems = Dont think complicatedly, just chill and look for a easy and comfortable key :D
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On August 19 2009 02:49 NightmareHack wrote:
If u got Problems with that glitch just move out ur marines or ur other units u have in cargo and attack that building or air unit then the problem must be gone ^^
If u have other Problems = Dont think complicatedly, just chill and look for a easy and comfortable key :D
o_o;
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Zurich15328 Posts
On August 19 2009 02:49 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 02:47 fanatacist wrote:
I don't think ICCup is a tournament...
It's not banned from pro games either. I think WCG still bans it. Although even they might not enforce it. Wasn't there some controvercy in last year's WCG where one of the pros used obs over turret because it didn't occur to them that it could be banned?
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On August 19 2009 02:47 fanatacist wrote:
I don't think ICCup is a tournament...
No, it's not "a tournament", but it does host many tournaments.
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On August 19 2009 02:54 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 02:49 fanatacist wrote:On August 19 2009 02:47 fanatacist wrote:
I don't think ICCup is a tournament... It's not banned from pro games either. I think WCG still bans it. Although even they might not enforce it. Wasn't there some controvercy in last year's WCG where one of the pros used obs over turret because it didn't occur to them that it could be banned?
Really? I always see "no obs over turret" in foreigner tournaments, and I don't remember the last time anyone has used it in a progame so I just assumed that it was illegal.
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i believe turret freezing was banned but then they unbanned it since u can spam Stop to unfreeze the turret. that's what i heard anyway. never heard of bunker freezing. show me and i'll believe u
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On August 19 2009 02:58 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 02:54 zatic wrote:On August 19 2009 02:49 fanatacist wrote:On August 19 2009 02:47 fanatacist wrote:
I don't think ICCup is a tournament... It's not banned from pro games either. I think WCG still bans it. Although even they might not enforce it. Wasn't there some controvercy in last year's WCG where one of the pros used obs over turret because it didn't occur to them that it could be banned? Really? I always see "no obs over turret" in foreigner tournaments, and I don't remember the last time anyone has used it in a progame so I just assumed that it was illegal.
pwned
i think its kinda pointless to use anyways since its easy to avoid.
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Northern Ireland's bunker is hero Marines.
Did you guys have an explanation for the ghost and CC bug when attacking Belarus with Ukraine? That bug is a weird one too, and I don't think vision is the reason, simply because normal ghosts have longer range than hero ghosts.
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Something to do with worker units is what we decided. We worked on this for a couple days weeks ago but coudn't figure it out. Which is why I brought it here. And the ghosts in that bunk are normal not hero.
And idk if they are hero. Gols and goons can snipe it. Meanwhile tanks have trouble sniping most irish bunks. Sooo I don't think they are hero
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On August 19 2009 02:47 fanatacist wrote:
I don't think ICCup is a tournament...
REALLY? tell that to the many people noobbashing/cheesing just so they can have an easy win!
And won't terrans usually build a turret next to their bunker (stop a lurker break, defend muta harass, tvt contains)
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On August 19 2009 03:24 dhe95 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 02:47 fanatacist wrote:
I don't think ICCup is a tournament... REALLY? tell that to the many people noobbashing/cheesing just so they can have an easy win! And won't terrans usually build a turret next to their bunker (stop a lurker break, defend muta harass, tvt contains)
It's a ladder not a tournament.
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On August 19 2009 03:24 dhe95 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 02:47 fanatacist wrote:
I don't think ICCup is a tournament... REALLY? tell that to the many people noobbashing/cheesing just so they can have an easy win! And won't terrans usually build a turret next to their bunker (stop a lurker break, defend muta harass, tvt contains)
I could actually freeze both of those simultaneously if you wanted
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When can we see some screencaps/vods? I am not going to look through those replays at fastest speed -_-;
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On August 19 2009 02:54 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 02:49 fanatacist wrote:On August 19 2009 02:47 fanatacist wrote:
I don't think ICCup is a tournament... It's not banned from pro games either. I think WCG still bans it. Although even they might not enforce it. Wasn't there some controvercy in last year's WCG where one of the pros used obs over turret because it didn't occur to them that it could be banned?
I believe it was stork, who did it without realizing that it was banned. I think they warned him, or something along those lines, but he wasn't punished. Can't remember for my life who it was against though.
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On August 19 2009 03:29 fanatacist wrote:
When can we see some screencaps/vods? I am not going to look through those replays at fastest speed -_-;
Two of the replays are 4 minutes long. The one with the probe glitch is 14.
You really can't spare 4 minutes..?
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On August 19 2009 03:35 Ian Ian Ian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 03:29 fanatacist wrote:
When can we see some screencaps/vods? I am not going to look through those replays at fastest speed -_-; Two of the replays are 4 minutes long. The one with the probe glitch is 14. You really can't spare 4 minutes..?
No.
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Screencaps won't do much, since you can't tell if bunk is firing or not, and my internet connection won't be able to upload VODs quickly enough. Maybe I'll try to Livestream, but I don't know if I can upload in a good quality.
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I can maybe try making a VOD later today. The last one I made got messed up with quality. And there's no sound or anything so.. :/
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Observer over turrets is allowed in progames. They usually don't do it because the terran would usually spot it, fix the turret, and then the toss would lose the observer. I believe it was Stork who did it at WCG and there was controversy over that. They started a new game and Stork still won.
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Sup, I'm one of the people (along with Ian and other top diplo players) who figured this out, with a lot of testing. There are other interesting bugs as well that I'm sure most people here have never seen or heard of, having to due with weird targeting rules. I've been thinking about writing a guide to this here for a long time but I guess ian beat me to it.
Anyway, a bunker is exactly like a turret in that if a unit is DIRECTLY centered on top of it, it can no longer fire at that unit. Diplo players have been freezing turrets with dropships for as long as I can remember, it was only a matter of time before we figured out that bunkers would freeze as well. Then it was only a matter of time before we figured out you could freeze bunkers and turrets with other units too, like floating terran buildings. For a while we only froze them with non-combat units, since it's significantly more difficult to get a combat unit directly on top of the bunker/turret without being able to spam right click, but lately we've been freezing with wraiths, battlecruisers, scouts, etc.
Cool thing is, if one of the units that you freeze a bunker with is a combat unit, like a valkyrie, the units inside the bunker will not retarget to another combat unit. This is similar to a turret not automatically retargeting to a dropship if it's attacking a building, a trick with a ton of applications in diplo and I'd imagine in TvT as well... anyway there is a target acquisition hierarchy, as well as a target reacquisition hierarchy, that varies for each unit in the game. All experienced UMS players I know have had to deal with this hierarchy, since targeting rules have a great impact on many UMS games (like defense games). I'm sure melee players have a rough feel for target acquisition and reacquisition rules as well and get annoyed at goliaths for shooting and chasing the wrong things as often as I do.
Anyway if you freeze a bunker with a valkyrie, you can kill the bunker with marines, ghosts, firebats, goliaths, scvs, etc. -- pretty much anything you want. Bunker marines will not even retarget to a battlecruiser attacking it, though a turret frozen by a valkyrie does retarget to a battlecruiser.
I showed this to one of my melee friends recently and he shit his pants. We played with it a while until we figured out the angle that a turret can fire at a unit on top of it from (the turret has to be pointing vertically -- spamming stop is only useful to get the turret to the angle it will fire again, if you spam stop after that the turret will re-freeze when it's no longer at a vertical angle). Also note that the initial angle of approach to whatever you're freezing cannot be from the top, it has to be from the side or bottom. Bunkers can shoot units aligned vertically top-to-bottom, otherwise you have to unload the bunker and reload it to get the units to attack the unit on top of it.
The only place I can see this particular trick having significant application is in ZvT with mutas vs turrets/bunkers, and perhaps freezing turrets with dropships. A lone bunker could be frozen by a single mutalisk to allow zerglings to kill it, etc. etc.
For those suggesting that this might be map or UMS-specific: I haven't tested this in melee yet, I'm not a melee player, but I've used it in multiple maps against both human and computer players. There is nothing at all that suggests this is map-specific or unique to UMS, and the existence of the observer-over-turret in melee corroborates it enough that I'm completely certain the rules are the same. This is an SC engine thing, not a map settings thing.
Spores and cannons cannot be frozen.
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On August 19 2009 01:48 Ian Ian Ian wrote:
I'm sort of new on teamliquid, used to spend alot of time on another forum related to starcraft, but it was relatively small, and not filled with players with so much skill/knowledge etc.
There is a glitch there that we've been trying to figure out for the longest time, bunker freezing. I know mostly everyone here might not have ever seen it before because it doesn't happen in melee, but I'm hoping a couple people might know about it.
Basically just like how you can freeze a turret with a building/dropship/air unit, you can also freeze a bunker by moving anything directly overtop of it so it will quit shooting at you. This used to be common knowledge to me and most of the peole I play with, but we recently discovered that if you freeze the bunker with an air unit that attacks (eg valk/wraith/sair), then drop units by it, the bunker will still continue to not retarget. This only seemed to work when there were special ghosts in the bunker though. If there are other units in the bunker, sometimes they retarget, sometimes not, and we can't figure out why.
Wondering if anone could maybe shed some light on this as to why it happens. I might try and record a video sometime too.
This part isn't even remotely true, ian, wtf? We regularly freeze bunkers with normal and hero marines, normal and hero ghosts... it doesn't matter what unit is in the bunker if you freeze it with a combat unit. It does matter what unit is in the bunker (and the angle you approach the bunker from) if you're trying to soak damage with a building and make the units inside not retarget. Why would you post something so blatantly false on teamliquid? You don't have to pretend to not know something just 'cause you're new here, you're just going to get pages of people questioning what you know because you sound uncertain.
Edit: the only reason my sair freeze in north ireland failed is because the dropship nudged the corsair off-center. Air units are lame like that sometimes.
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I've never heard of this bug but yeah, It is interesting, thanks for the heads up:D
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Everyone is to lazy, or busy, or is incapable of getting on bnet. thats funny
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On August 19 2009 04:31 StorrZerg wrote:
Everyone is to lazy, or busy, or is incapable of getting on bnet. thats funny
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On August 19 2009 04:31 StorrZerg wrote:
Everyone is to lazy, or busy, or is incapable of getting on bnet. thats funny
I just made a melee replay for you lazy people.
http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=19090
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I took some screenshots too.
overlord bunker freeze
dual turret freeze with mutas
dual bunker freeze with mutas
lings unharmed
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You have to rename the rep since the name is too long. However, these bugs are in the game, and I guess they could be of some importance in melee matches.
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On August 19 2009 02:54 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 02:49 fanatacist wrote:On August 19 2009 02:47 fanatacist wrote:
I don't think ICCup is a tournament... It's not banned from pro games either. I think WCG still bans it. Although even they might not enforce it. Wasn't there some controvercy in last year's WCG where one of the pros used obs over turret because it didn't occur to them that it could be banned?
It was Stork and it's not banned in progames since it's easy to deal with, that's why he assumed it was ok to do at WCG.
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On August 19 2009 05:12 Phelix wrote:
You have to rename the rep since the name is too long. However, these bugs are in the game, and I guess they could be of some importance in melee matches.
that's repdepot's naming convention, not mine. sorry you have to rename.
I can imagine a ton of scenarios in which this could be useful... it's not like I'm good (at all) and I can dual turret and bunker freeze pretty decently. It's a lot more deadly vs bunkers since you have to unload the bunkers to deal with it, but I can see a lot of situations in which a small muta force can kill a disproportionate number of turrets if the terran isn't ready for it.
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I can see this being a really gay way to break a Terran's (opening bionic) natural. Imagine a Zerg pre positioning a couple overlords near Terran and then going 2 hatch lurker. Terran obviously will bunker up upon seeing the lurker/ling force approaching him. Zerg freezes the bunkers (assuming slowverlords can reach accomplish it without dying (or if not, getting overlord speed for less lurkers isn't that big of a deal) and then breaks the bunkers and with it a large portion of what Terran has. That would be terrible.
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Unfortunately nevake overlords are not combat units and the bunkers will retarget. You'd have to use mutas if you want no retarget.
There are, however, some bizarre targeting rules for units loaded in dropships/overlords. If you had a drone in an overlord, (scv in dropship, probe in shuttle) then bunkerfroze/unloaded combat units (but NOT the worker)on a bunker, the units inside the bunker would not target the combat units outside presumably due to having targeted the worker inside the transport. At least, in certain circumstances that would be the case. This is one I'm still trying to figure out, I have no idea why a bunker would target a noncombat unit inside a loaded shuttle/overlord/dropship over combat units outside hitting it... but it happens consistently enough in diplo that I'm sure there's a reason.
There's also a similar bug with combat units inside dropships, in that (presumably) the marines will target a combat unit inside the dropship. If you unload a unit that is not the targeted combat unit, often no marines will hit that unit. If the targeted unit is then unloaded the marines will target it immediately. Reload that unit and the marines will hit the other units attacking the bunker. This is much more inconsistent than simply bringing a worker in your dropship with you.
SC is pretty weird sometimes.
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On August 19 2009 03:35 Ian Ian Ian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 03:29 fanatacist wrote:
When can we see some screencaps/vods? I am not going to look through those replays at fastest speed -_-; Two of the replays are 4 minutes long. The one with the probe glitch is 14. You really can't spare 4 minutes..?
he just have no patience, just don't bother showing it to him :p
I watched the replay, it seems to only work on diplomacy map no? I'm sure there can be some trigger bugs in those maps as well, as opposed to pure mechanic bugs
nvm i saw screen shots of melee map.
Would be useful maybe 1/10000 games but I'll sure to know it when it comes
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On August 19 2009 06:34 evanthebouncy! wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 03:35 Ian Ian Ian wrote:On August 19 2009 03:29 fanatacist wrote:
When can we see some screencaps/vods? I am not going to look through those replays at fastest speed -_-; Two of the replays are 4 minutes long. The one with the probe glitch is 14. You really can't spare 4 minutes..? he just have no patience, just don't bother showing it to him :p I watched the replay, it seems to only work on diplomacy map no? I'm sure there can be some trigger bugs in those maps as well, as opposed to pure mechanic bugs
Read the thread.
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On August 19 2009 02:38 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 02:35 ilovelosses wrote:On August 19 2009 02:21 BanZu wrote:
Kinda happens when something flies over a goliath, as the missile shoots and just keep flying in circles and it doesn't attack anymore.
And the most common occurrence in melee would probably be observer over a turret. Not so much in professional games or in iccup since they're both banned glitches that can get you DQed but I've done it before on bnet haha.
I'm guessing it occurs because it's kinda like a vulture planting mines. The vulture can't plant mines unless it moves a tiny distance, as in you can't plant a mine by clicking on the vulture. A turret isn't able to shoot directly upwards so it can't shoot anything directly above it. Maybe it's similar in some way with bunkers and ghosts. obs over turret isn't banned iirc It's banned in pro games and in most tournaments.
Not banned in pro games at all. Tasteless was talking about it quite a bit during Gom when people were doing it, how it's banned WCG and he had to DQ Stork for doing it because stork was so used to it being used.
Edit : I've also seen it being used on neo medusa in pvt at some point within the last few monhts.
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It could be extremely useful for the common scenario of T moves out, Z has lot of lings, few mutas from harass left, and some lurkers; Z chooses to backstab T nat instead of defending his new 3rd. The T usually makes 2-3 bunkers in preparation for this, if you can freeze those bunkers it would be extremely bad for the T
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so.. i could do this with sairs over bunkers/turrets amirite?
I suppose you should move ur units with M->click, otherwise they'll attack, right?
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On August 19 2009 07:32 never_toss wrote:
so.. i could do this with sairs over bunkers/turrets amirite?
I suppose you should move ur units with M->click, otherwise they'll attack, right?
yeah or you could ally and right click, totally un-necessary but I could actually see it happening in a play/obs game on USWest or USEast where T tries to do allied mines and Z tries to stall turret or bunk like that (It'd never happen but it would be hilarious the game ending that way)
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On August 19 2009 07:32 never_toss wrote:
so.. i could do this with sairs over bunkers/turrets amirite?
I suppose you should move ur units with M->click, otherwise they'll attack, right?
Yes, you have to spam m+click for air-to-ground attack units. Sairs and valks and devourers and scourge you can just spam right click.
Unfortunately, I can't think of a time when you would have sairs in PvT that would make this useful. Scouts would be a more likely application, and scouts aren't exactly common ... lol. I think the only matchup where this has potentially game-changing (or rule-changing) application is in TvZ.
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On August 19 2009 07:00 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 02:38 fanatacist wrote:On August 19 2009 02:35 ilovelosses wrote:On August 19 2009 02:21 BanZu wrote:
Kinda happens when something flies over a goliath, as the missile shoots and just keep flying in circles and it doesn't attack anymore.
And the most common occurrence in melee would probably be observer over a turret. Not so much in professional games or in iccup since they're both banned glitches that can get you DQed but I've done it before on bnet haha.
I'm guessing it occurs because it's kinda like a vulture planting mines. The vulture can't plant mines unless it moves a tiny distance, as in you can't plant a mine by clicking on the vulture. A turret isn't able to shoot directly upwards so it can't shoot anything directly above it. Maybe it's similar in some way with bunkers and ghosts. obs over turret isn't banned iirc It's banned in pro games and in most tournaments. Not banned in pro games at all. Tasteless was talking about it quite a bit during Gom when people were doing it, how it's banned WCG and he had to DQ Stork for doing it because stork was so used to it being used. Edit : I've also seen it being used on neo medusa in pvt at some point within the last few monhts.
Stork wasnt DQed the game was replayed.
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Hm this is a pretty big deal seeing as it works in melee as well. How wasn't this discovered til now?
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Because its so rare that its not a big deal at all I mean its impossible to actually base a tactical manuever on this, unlike turret stalling with an ob.
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On August 19 2009 08:06 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:Because its so rare that its not a big deal at all I mean its impossible to actually base a tactical manuever on this, unlike turret stalling with an ob.
What are you talking about? At least two full bunkers side-by-side can be completely neutralized by two mutalisks, then you can kill those bunkers with anything else. Observer over turret can be easily countered by rearranging the turret angle by pressing stop, bunker freezes cannot.
It doesn't take a tactical genius to see how effective this can be.
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On August 19 2009 08:16 integral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 08:06 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:Because its so rare that its not a big deal at all I mean its impossible to actually base a tactical manuever on this, unlike turret stalling with an ob. What are you talking about? At least two full bunkers side-by-side can be completely neutralized by two mutalisks, then you can kill those bunkers with anything else. Observer over turret can be easily countered by rearranging the turret angle by pressing stop, bunker freezes cannot. It doesn't take a tactical genius to see how effective this can be.
Because the vast majority of the time the bunkers won't be stalled at all....was that too hard to understand?
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If the terran's guarding with 3 bunkers, I doubt that you can get mutalisks to stall the bunkers. I bet the mutas would die even without getting close to the bunker.
I suppose you can bring like 6 mutas to stall 3 bunkers, but then clumped air units spread apart, so it'd be even harder to stall the bunkers.
It's cool in theory but unless I see an example of someone with not-so-godly micro pull it off, I'm not gonna consider it practical.
Not to mention, there's probably going to be turrets and other stuff around the bunkers. One lone bunker is feasible, but under normal circumstances, I don't see it as being practical.
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On August 19 2009 08:26 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 08:16 integral wrote:On August 19 2009 08:06 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:Because its so rare that its not a big deal at all I mean its impossible to actually base a tactical manuever on this, unlike turret stalling with an ob. What are you talking about? At least two full bunkers side-by-side can be completely neutralized by two mutalisks, then you can kill those bunkers with anything else. Observer over turret can be easily countered by rearranging the turret angle by pressing stop, bunker freezes cannot. It doesn't take a tactical genius to see how effective this can be. Because the vast majority of the time the bunkers won't be stalled at all....was that too hard to understand?
What are you even talking about? The bunkers freeze every time... this isn't some flip a coin thing, this is something I do on a daily basis.
On August 19 2009 08:38 StRyKeR wrote:
If the terran's guarding with 3 bunkers, I doubt that you can get mutalisks to stall the bunkers. I bet the mutas would die even without getting close to the bunker.
I suppose you can bring like 6 mutas to stall 3 bunkers, but then clumped air units spread apart, so it'd be even harder to stall the bunkers.
It's cool in theory but unless I see an example of someone with not-so-godly micro pull it off, I'm not gonna consider it practical.
Not to mention, there's probably going to be turrets and other stuff around the bunkers. One lone bunker is feasible, but under normal circumstances, I don't see it as being practical.
I don't have godly micro, I'm a UMS player... a D level player on Iccup and I can do this consistently. Dual turret and bunker freezes are a part of my daily gaming routine, certain countries in diplo greatly benefit from doing it.
Yes it's currently theory in melee... especially since no one seems to know about this trick except for a small part of the diplo community. But it's really not too hard to imagine a zerg backstabbing a terran who only has static defense around, is it? Besides, any terran who doesn't know how to rearrange turrets to fire at a unit on top of them is going to be at a severe disadvantage if/when a zerg freezes their turrets with mutas. Even if they do, and the zerg saves only a few turret hits worth of hitpoints, god knows how many games have come down to just a few hitpoints.
Also, I don't know about you but the only game I remember someone making three bunkers close together was leta vs type-b. And I imagine a zerg who practiced this trick, like the guy who practiced marine micro vs lurkers, could make a pretty big splash doing multiple-bunker freezes with perfect timing. Sure, dodging lurker spines isn't very practical, unless you have one marine left and they have one lurker left. 
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On August 19 2009 08:45 integral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 08:26 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:On August 19 2009 08:16 integral wrote:On August 19 2009 08:06 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:Because its so rare that its not a big deal at all I mean its impossible to actually base a tactical manuever on this, unlike turret stalling with an ob. What are you talking about? At least two full bunkers side-by-side can be completely neutralized by two mutalisks, then you can kill those bunkers with anything else. Observer over turret can be easily countered by rearranging the turret angle by pressing stop, bunker freezes cannot. It doesn't take a tactical genius to see how effective this can be. Because the vast majority of the time the bunkers won't be stalled at all....was that too hard to understand? What are you even talking about? The bunkers freeze every time...
Not if the muta dies. Which would be the norm as stryker said.
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United States3824 Posts
Pics or it didn't happen err doesn't happen
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On August 19 2009 08:49 cgrinker wrote:
Pics or it didn't happen err doesn't happen
Pics have been posted
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Why would the muta die every time unless you couldn't attack anyway? A full health mutalisk will not die to a 4-marine bunker if the player freezes it accurately, and until the mutalisk dies or the bunker is unloaded/reloaded nothing else will take any damage from that bunker. It's not like it takes a long time for lings to kill a bunker, a second or two of marines not firing could very well be the critical difference in a game.
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The muta would die every time because that fool will argue with you until he dies from old age. That guy argues until his "opponent" decides to give up, so it's pointless to try to do so. Of course the muta can get to the bunker without dying. And I'll gladly use 4 mutas on 2 bunkers to ensure my ling lurker army will beat the bunkers in my backstab.
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On August 19 2009 02:08 fanatacist wrote:
If it never happens in melee then it's irrelevant imo.
For me too, sry.
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On August 19 2009 16:34 IceCube wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 02:08 fanatacist wrote:
If it never happens in melee then it's irrelevant imo. For me too, sry.
Read the thread, ffs.
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On August 19 2009 08:38 StRyKeR wrote:
I suppose you can bring like 6 mutas to stall 3 bunkers, but then clumped air units spread apart, so it'd be even harder to stall the bunkers.
The muta's wouldn't need to clump all together over the bunkers, a couple of muta's or other units can be used to draw fire first while individual mutas go for the stall.
Useful, only if this really works in general, not ust on a specific version of a specific map.
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
Ok I checked out the replay.
That was fucking amazing.... seriously I can't believe this hasn't been abused yet!
I see this EXTREMELY useful in ZvT, in multiple scenarios, the first one being a really useful one in my opinion.
1) Defending bunker rushes. If a terran tries to bunker rush you with SCVs, a lot of times it's a battle of preventing marines from getting into that bunker. Well if you can get your Overlord to cover that bunker and freezeit, that gives you plenty of time to put up a defense and neutralizing his bunker rush.
2) Attacking defensive terrans with bunker line, as a low-econ zerg. If you're playing as low-econ zerg, and you need to break his FE but he's defending with bunkers, and you know u can break him wide open if you just break his defense once, this could be a really worth-while thing to try. If you're going muta/ling just place a single mutalisk on top of each bunker and those bunkers are completely neutralized.
3) If you're going for a counter-attack while the terran's main forces are attacking your base, you could upgrade ovie-speed and bring in 4/5 overlords with your main army and cut his defense in half by neutralizing the bunkers and turrets....
Seeing as how the freezes were done so easily and multiple times I think with a little practice this could be used as often as stop-lurkers. Infact I could see this being the next "new micro thing" like muta-stacking or patrol-micro or valkyrie-backfiring has become over the last few years.
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well, maybe we haven't seen this because bunkers and stuff that can go on top of it and stuff that gets to drop other stuff rarely come together.
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On August 19 2009 14:18 NoobsOfWrath wrote:
The muta would die every time because that fool will argue with you until he dies from old age. That guy argues until his "opponent" decides to give up, so it's pointless to try to do so. Of course the muta can get to the bunker without dying. And I'll gladly use 4 mutas on 2 bunkers to ensure my ling lurker army will beat the bunkers in my backstab.
Lol ...fuck you.
But you also completely suck at broodwar(even more than me). So who really cares what you'd do? BoX tvz me T? Feel free to bunker stall all you want.
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ok so I saw the pics on page 3 and this seems to work, how exactly do you do it?
Is it practical in a real game?
If so, How do you counter it?
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Wow! That's happened to me when I was playing against the CPU. The Missile Turret didn't shoot my Observer or Scouts when I flew on it. This must be a strange glitch.
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i know this cool glitch where you can take ur marines out of the bunkers and group them with other units that are not in your bunkers and then target the unit flying over your bunker. it's called focus fire
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damn so it is true. this stuff is so weird..
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On August 19 2009 20:12 CharlieMurphy wrote:
ok so I saw the pics on page 3 and this seems to work, how exactly do you do it?
m+click until the unit is centered over the bunker. It's very simple, anyone can do it with a little practice.
Is it practical in a real game?
Possibly. I don't play melee, but I imagine someone with a little creativity could develop a ZvT build order that would force a bunker that could then be exploited. The situation it's extremely dangerous for the terran is if they have one or two bunkers full of marines but their marine force is elsewhere. At this point mutas could then freeze the bunkers and what ordinarily would've been more than enough defense would break to even a small ling force.
If so, How do you counter it?
Killing the muta on top of the bunker is the only way to get the bunkered marines to retarget without unloading them and reloading them.
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On August 19 2009 17:59 Live2Win wrote:Ok I checked out the replay. That was fucking amazing.... seriously I can't believe this hasn't been abused yet! I see this EXTREMELY useful in ZvT, in multiple scenarios, the first one being a really useful one in my opinion. 1) Defending bunker rushes. If a terran tries to bunker rush you with SCVs, a lot of times it's a battle of preventing marines from getting into that bunker. Well if you can get your Overlord to cover that bunker and freezeit, that gives you plenty of time to put up a defense and neutralizing his bunker rush. 2) Attacking defensive terrans with bunker line, as a low-econ zerg. If you're playing as low-econ zerg, and you need to break his FE but he's defending with bunkers, and you know u can break him wide open if you just break his defense once, this could be a really worth-while thing to try. If you're going muta/ling just place a single mutalisk on top of each bunker and those bunkers are completely neutralized. 3) If you're going for a counter-attack while the terran's main forces are attacking your base, you could upgrade ovie-speed and bring in 4/5 overlords with your main army and cut his defense in half by neutralizing the bunkers and turrets.... Seeing as how the freezes were done so easily and multiple times I think with a little practice this could be used as often as stop-lurkers. Infact I could see this being the next "new micro thing" like muta-stacking or patrol-micro or valkyrie-backfiring has become over the last few years.
Unfortunately overlords are not combat units and bunkers will retarget to combat units from them, pretty sure they retarget to drones too. However, an overlord over a bunker will probably get targeted before a hatchery would, which means as long as the zerg can keep that overlord alive (by killing the marines that have to be outside of the bunker to target the overlord) an overlord could in some situations prevent a hatchery from being fired on.
The real potential is in using combat units to freeze since under no circumstances would the bunker be able to retarget without unloading, and turrets would have to be manually controlled.
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In the case of a bunker rush, Terrans can counter an overlord bunker freeze by just unloading marines, sniping overlord, and getting back in.
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Yeah it's probably not too practical since you'd most likely lose the overlord, but even so I could see it being useful in delaying the terran in very rare circumstances. Marines that make it into the bunker for a bunker rush are often low hp, having to unload them to snipe the overlord could potentially allow the zerg to kill them. Using overlords, especially slow overlords, would just be a cute trick more than anything else.
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Wow spend a day out on the town and this stuff gets so out of hand. Kudos to intergral for keeping things alive. When I mentioned that "it only seemed to work on bunkers with normal ghosts" or whatever, I was talking about the weird probe glitch. Because to my knowledge, we haven't been able to replicate that anywhere else. I'll update the first post with screenshots/replays etc. now.
And you guys have to remember, bunkers only don't retarget if the unit freezing is a combat unit. Or in some bizarre scenario's, a dropship ith a worker in it :s
I'm actually sort of surprised nobody knows about this
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On August 19 2009 07:46 d(O.o)a wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 07:32 never_toss wrote:
so.. i could do this with sairs over bunkers/turrets amirite?
I suppose you should move ur units with M->click, otherwise they'll attack, right?
yeah or you could ally and right click, totally un-necessary but I could actually see it happening in a play/obs game on USWest or USEast where T tries to do allied mines and Z tries to stall turret or bunk like that (It'd never happen but it would be hilarious the game ending that way)
how would the game end? both of them check "allied victory?"
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United States17042 Posts
the rep in melee is pretty freaking cool. Go watch it, come back, and tell us it isn't useful.
that being said, op needs to be edited >.>
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United States17042 Posts
On August 20 2009 01:34 StRyKeR wrote:
In the case of a bunker rush, Terrans can counter an overlord bunker freeze by just unloading marines, sniping overlord, and getting back in.
yes, although that dosen't sound easy/practical when you're talking about the standard 8 rax -> bunker, as it allows a few more seconds for the lings/drones to get close.
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On August 20 2009 01:56 Ian Ian Ian wrote:
Wow spend a day out on the town and this stuff gets so out of hand. Kudos to intergral for keeping things alive. When I mentioned that "it only seemed to work on bunkers with normal ghosts" or whatever, I was talking about the weird probe glitch. Because to my knowledge, we haven't been able to replicate that anywhere else. I'll update the first post with screenshots/replays etc. now.
And you guys have to remember, bunkers only don't retarget if the unit freezing is a combat unit. Or in some bizarre scenario's, a dropship ith a worker in it :s
I'm actually sort of surprised nobody knows about this
It's still not clear, ian, since you said combat unit in your initial post.. The glitch we're still trying to figure out is why combat units outside of a dropship don't get targeted but a noncombat unit inside a dropship does. The way you wrote it you're asking a question we both already know the answer to.
Glad you edited the OP though, was getting tired of the kids thinking it didn't work in melee.
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Okay I edited it again.
And really this has nothing at all to do with triggers, idk why it would work in one map and not another.
And if freezing a turret with an obs has a use then this certainly does. Neutralizing a bunker can be.. huge?
Also, a little detail that I might add. I'm pretty positive that for the bunker to get frozen, it has to be targetting the unit that is going to freeze it before it actually gets frozen. If you watch my second replay you'll see me mess up once because both bunkers target the same valk. So, sending a swarm of muta's to freeze 3 bunks would be very tricky. You could also theoretically refreeze the bunker very quickly if the terran player unloads/reloads.
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Hell, if I can freeze two bunkers, I'm sure any decent player with a little timing practice could freeze more. But I rarely see more than one or two bunkers anyway.
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On August 20 2009 00:52 integral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 17:59 Live2Win wrote:On August 19 2009 04:45 integral wrote:On August 19 2009 04:31 StorrZerg wrote:
Everyone is to lazy, or busy, or is incapable of getting on bnet. thats funny I just made a melee replay for you lazy people. http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=19090 Ok I checked out the replay. That was fucking amazing.... seriously I can't believe this hasn't been abused yet! I see this EXTREMELY useful in ZvT, in multiple scenarios, the first one being a really useful one in my opinion. 1) Defending bunker rushes. If a terran tries to bunker rush you with SCVs, a lot of times it's a battle of preventing marines from getting into that bunker. Well if you can get your Overlord to cover that bunker and freezeit, that gives you plenty of time to put up a defense and neutralizing his bunker rush. 2) Attacking defensive terrans with bunker line, as a low-econ zerg. If you're playing as low-econ zerg, and you need to break his FE but he's defending with bunkers, and you know u can break him wide open if you just break his defense once, this could be a really worth-while thing to try. If you're going muta/ling just place a single mutalisk on top of each bunker and those bunkers are completely neutralized. 3) If you're going for a counter-attack while the terran's main forces are attacking your base, you could upgrade ovie-speed and bring in 4/5 overlords with your main army and cut his defense in half by neutralizing the bunkers and turrets.... Seeing as how the freezes were done so easily and multiple times I think with a little practice this could be used as often as stop-lurkers. Infact I could see this being the next "new micro thing" like muta-stacking or patrol-micro or valkyrie-backfiring has become over the last few years. Unfortunately overlords are not combat units and bunkers will retarget to combat units from them, pretty sure they retarget to drones too. However, an overlord over a bunker will probably get targeted before a hatchery would, which means as long as the zerg can keep that overlord alive (by killing the marines that have to be outside of the bunker to target the overlord) an overlord could in some situations prevent a hatchery from being fired on. The real potential is in using combat units to freeze since under no circumstances would the bunker be able to retarget without unloading, and turrets would have to be manually controlled.
mmmm.... I guess that changes a lot then. I'm gonna juggle my brain a little with this and see what can be imba with this.
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Well, this is just a small piece of an even bigger glitch I think. I've had it where I've told a hydralisk to hold position while attacking a rax/depot wall and when a unit with greater range (usually a tank) begins to attack it it just freezes up. Even if the depot it was previously attacking is still in range.
If you think about it, this is probably how the lurker-hold trick works as well. The version where you tell it to attack a building under the fog of war, of course.
This is starting to look like a problem Blizzard should fix. Since the observer-over-turret glitch is banned from most leagues and as far as I know, so is the lurker-hold. I mean, the ability to put a defensive structure such as a bunker out of commision? That's imbalanced. Ridiculously so if you think about trying to do this with a unit as cheap as scourge and 8 lings or so. One scourge for each bunker, take the bunkers down with the lings and then the expo is easy pickings. Where as, without using this glitch even one bunker would own those lings. And I shudder to imagine what lurkers could do to natural expos if people where to learn how to exploit this properly.
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Scourges would die, but you have the idea
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On August 19 2009 07:54 integral wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 07:32 never_toss wrote:
so.. i could do this with sairs over bunkers/turrets amirite?
I suppose you should move ur units with M->click, otherwise they'll attack, right?
Yes, you have to spam m+click for air-to-ground attack units. Sairs and valks and devourers and scourge you can just spam right click. Unfortunately, I can't think of a time when you would have sairs in PvT that would make this useful. Scouts would be a more likely application, and scouts aren't exactly common ... lol. I think the only matchup where this has potentially game-changing (or rule-changing) application is in TvZ.
Since sairs are way cheaper than scouts lol, i would find this usefull as a break attack. Just like the bulldog, 1 or 2 sairs could help screw the defense over.
Plus, it would be way better to spam right click than M click on that matter
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True. I think right clicking makes it 100x easier. Since if you M and click the units randomly veer off course.
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On August 19 2009 19:14 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 14:18 NoobsOfWrath wrote:
The muta would die every time because that fool will argue with you until he dies from old age. That guy argues until his "opponent" decides to give up, so it's pointless to try to do so. Of course the muta can get to the bunker without dying. And I'll gladly use 4 mutas on 2 bunkers to ensure my ling lurker army will beat the bunkers in my backstab. Lol ...fuck you. But you also completely suck at broodwar(even more than me). So who really cares what you'd do? BoX tvz me T? Feel free to bunker stall all you want.
Yes, I suck despite you having no idea who I am nor how I play. Grow up, little kid, just cause someone disagrees with you doesn't mean you have to turn into an Eastie nerd and challenge them to 1v1. Even if you did beat me (you wouldn't but this is a theoretical point) it wouldn't say anything whatsoever about the argument.
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Let's try and keep SC rage out of the topic :/
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Shitttttt.
I'm going to be keeping my second ovie over my nat bridge every ZvT on Destination now.
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On August 20 2009 01:34 StRyKeR wrote:
In the case of a bunker rush, Terrans can counter an overlord bunker freeze by just unloading marines, sniping overlord, and getting back in.
Which defeats the entire purpose of having a bunker, if you have to unload marines from it?
On August 19 2009 19:14 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2009 14:18 NoobsOfWrath wrote:
The muta would die every time because that fool will argue with you until he dies from old age. That guy argues until his "opponent" decides to give up, so it's pointless to try to do so. Of course the muta can get to the bunker without dying. And I'll gladly use 4 mutas on 2 bunkers to ensure my ling lurker army will beat the bunkers in my backstab. Lol ...fuck you. But you also completely suck at broodwar(even more than me). So who really cares what you'd do? BoX tvz me T? Feel free to bunker stall all you want.
Great contribution to the discussion man, slam that insults and e-penis to everything you refuse to acknowledge.
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On August 21 2009 20:23 Shizuru~ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2009 01:34 StRyKeR wrote:
In the case of a bunker rush, Terrans can counter an overlord bunker freeze by just unloading marines, sniping overlord, and getting back in. Which defeats the entire purpose of having a bunker, if you have to unload marines from it?
Not when they can instantly jump right back in it, also you really wanna take them out to stim them anyway.
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On August 21 2009 20:37 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2009 20:23 Shizuru~ wrote:On August 20 2009 01:34 StRyKeR wrote:
In the case of a bunker rush, Terrans can counter an overlord bunker freeze by just unloading marines, sniping overlord, and getting back in. Which defeats the entire purpose of having a bunker, if you have to unload marines from it? Not when they can instantly jump right back in it, also you really wanna take them out to stim them anyway.
yeah, stim during a bunker rush 
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On August 21 2009 21:32 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2009 20:37 jello_biafra wrote:On August 21 2009 20:23 Shizuru~ wrote:On August 20 2009 01:34 StRyKeR wrote:
In the case of a bunker rush, Terrans can counter an overlord bunker freeze by just unloading marines, sniping overlord, and getting back in. Which defeats the entire purpose of having a bunker, if you have to unload marines from it? Not when they can instantly jump right back in it, also you really wanna take them out to stim them anyway. yeah, stim during a bunker rush
Well obviously not during the bunk rush, but any standard situation....plus the point remains....take two seconds to pop ovie and jump back in bunk...?
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For the hundredth time, Ovie's only freeze bunks like any normal building would. COMBAT air units freeze bunks and don't let the bunks retarget to other combat units. You really shouldn't be too afraid of having an ovie freeze your bunk.
If you get frozen by a muta however, when you pop out, your going to get shot at..
Not to mention if a bunk gets frozen the player should immediately be rushing that bunk as it's out of commision. So if you unload oyur surrounded anyways
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I'm surprised this hasn't come up before.. what happens when you get a bunch of mutalisks over a bunker? and does this happen with things like photon cannons?
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No. this does not work with photon cannons. I'm not sure what you mean by a "bunch of mutalisks over a bunker". It's actually much easier to do it with one mutalisk. Because the mutalisk freezing the bunker has to be the one the bunker is targetting. So if you send a group, the odds of the mutalisk the bunker is targetting being the one gaining a position on top of the bunker is small. That and the stacking would cause the muta's to move and lose their spot.
I was surprised nobody knew about it. Not surprised it didn't come up in melee. Who would try? :s
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Someone has to try if you put an overlord if the bunker can attack the hatchery (they can drones and lings, but a building?)
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Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
On August 25 2009 11:24 Battle wrote:
Someone has to try if you put an overlord if the bunker can attack the hatchery (they can drones and lings, but a building?)
Good question.
Also, do the marines in the bunker retarget if a worker is close by? I know they retarget to any combat unit (assuming an overlord is freezing the bunker), but what about an in-range hatchery or worker unit?
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They retarget to a worker, but they will not shoot a hatchery before an overlord. When the bunker was attacking the hatchery it retargeted to an overlord I sent.
Also, unloading and reloading didn't enable bunkered marines to attack the overlord, which is different than when I tested it with my friend with a valkyrie freezing a hero ghost bunker in Diplo Infinity. I don't know why unloading/reloading that unit enabled it to hit the valkyrie while unloading and reloading marines in melee doesn't seem to do anything.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
BUMP
Horang2 may have proved that this is possible with a zealot over a lurker! He moved a zealot right over the lurk and it stopped firing, even though there was an archon in range!
On October 27 2009 19:52 SnowFantasy wrote:
(im assuming he was going to use splash to kill the lurker because of no detection).
ya
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i haven't seen the game so i could be way off but maybe he did hold lurker so it was harder for the p to see where the lurker was.
(im assuming he was going to use splash to kill the lurker because of no detection).
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On October 27 2009 19:30 motbob wrote:BUMP Horang2 may have proved that this is possible with a zealot over a lurker! He moved a zealot right over the lurk and it stopped firing, even though there was an archon in range! Show nested quote +On October 27 2009 19:52 SnowFantasy wrote:
(im assuming he was going to use splash to kill the lurker because of no detection). ya
my guess is Action stop-lurkered that instant so Horang2 (hopefully) couldn't locate it.
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
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you can not realistically hope to do this against more than one bunker. if there are two, and you approach with two mutas, the freeze will only work if each bunker autotargets the muta that stops over it and not the other muta. which is kinda up to luck... well, maybe with some skill and correct angle of approach you can do it more consistently, but even that is a. and if there are even more units or turrets around, just forget it.
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awesome, another glitch to expose ^^
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I discovered the other day that you can freeze lurkers too. I put an archon directly over a burrowed lurker, and the archon killed it without taking any additional damage while on top.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i27.tinypic.com/1zv6dyf.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://i29.tinypic.com/ndr7f5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i26.tinypic.com/2eq6l9d.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i30.tinypic.com/52xmhx.jpg)
