I don't know, I always find SC2 matchs very entertaining. There so many openings and viable builds right now. Even the first few min of a match are exciting to me. Modern BW is almost like geting a set piece battle up and running before they really start playing. I think some of the play your seeing out of players like Idra/Tester is pretty amazing in how solid/safe there builds are already becoming just weeks into release.

Doctorasul

Romania1145 Posts

September 13 2010 15:43 GMT

#82

We'll always be more attached to the bicycle from our childhood. It doesn't matter the one you bought last month looks better, is more comfortable, faster or has more gears. You will never feel about a bike like you did about that one. And a picture of it will always bring back beloved memories: rusty handlebars, crooked and muddy wheels, bulky and a bit to large for your child body. You would feel like it gave you superpowers. Who is to blame we can't relive our childhood?

Klockan3

Sweden2866 Posts

September 13 2010 16:11 GMT

#83

On September 12 2010 13:15 Delerium wrote:

Show nested quote +

On September 12 2010 12:48 atarianimo wrote:

On September 12 2010 12:26 Delerium wrote:

On September 12 2010 11:13 Loser777 wrote:
BW has been around for 12 years. SC2 1 month. So why does Blizzard balance SC2 like it has been out for 12 years? Much of the game hasn't been figured out, but when the balance starts to shift to a certain race, it's "OH SHIT THE GAME IS IMBALANCED WE GOTTA FIX THIS"... no one is challenged to think outside the box when Blizzard tries to keep "standard play" balanced. It seems that because of Blizzard's decisions, the style of play around now is going to be around for a LONG time.

this

On September 12 2010 11:37 Angra wrote:

On September 12 2010 02:25 Delerium wrote:
sc2 is part of the disappointment for me... as you said it seems very fragile. One thing goes wrong and the game ends immediately. I've been wanting to write about this for a while... is this because the game is new and therefore can't possibly be stable yet? should I be patient? or should I be angry, because the game developers and their corporate structure knew the precedent- esports already existed, they knew what standard of depth and competition requirements was set for them. I don't know. I don't want my love of professional broodwar to cloud my judgement.

I know it's hard to tell because SC2 is still so new but it seems like there's absolutely no defender's advantage at all, in terms of units that can be used defensively, and no high ground advantage. That's a big reason I think why games end immediately after one person gains a slight advantage or something goes wrong. Like I said, it might be because it's new still, but I'm pretty sure that's not actually the case.

and this.

I really dislike Blizzard's balancing-for-competition philosophy ever since they hit a home-run with WoW. Not only are they favoring casuals over professionals, they are too sensitive and overreactive. They said they were going to fix sc2 ultralisks to make them not-useless and instead they... nerfed them? Okay. Great. I saw this same kind of schizophrenia in WoW back when they were trying to make arena into the next big e-sport, because one of their bosses could smell the money in Korea that Starcraft was generating. They're impatient and everything seems rushed. They aren't waiting for the players, aka the millions of game testers they have around the world, to find the problems (read: establish with trends) with balance in the game so they can be fixed for high-level competition.

I don't know what you are talking about, there hasn't been a single balance patch since retail.

that's true, and that is a good counter-point. I was reacting only to changes in the beta.

it's pedantic, but I come from a different school of thought that says the alpha is when you make big changes. a beta should be almost done. you release it to users for a beta test, because you're testing it for bugs... you need to make sure it's ready for release, you don't want bugs to slip through.

but that's also from an era when software was shipped finished, and patches didn't change the game, they only fixed bugs. active development is the standard now..

Pure bullshit...
You know that Starcraft was one of the first games to feature balance patches and had the expansion work as a large balance patch? Without these the game wouldn't had been the success it is today and this forum would never be created. It is impossible to balance an RTS in an alpha, it is hard as it is to do it in beta already.

squaremanhole

United States82 Posts

September 13 2010 16:19 GMT

#84

Tasteless and Artosis are pure trash.

I am 100% confident that I can do their job better than they can, and I've never even tried before.

User was temp banned for this post.

ziz

203 Posts

September 13 2010 20:57 GMT

#85

On September 13 2010 22:55 vnlegend wrote:
lol comparing OSL finals with Ro64 play. Very accurate comparison there.

And the whole "don't see any builds I can't execute" is just more lol. Go try them then and become 2000 diamond.

are you vnrock who maphacked and still got owned by me? lol

Ordained

United States779 Posts

September 14 2010 08:15 GMT

#86

On September 12 2010 02:39 mOnion wrote:
I'm the biggest Tasteless fanboy in the history of the world and even I'm disappointed with his SC2 knowledge.

x.x maybe its just cuz I watched him when I knew nothing about BW either, but I feel like he understood that game better.

He had so much less downtime during his BW casting, his SC2 casting seems to be him stumbling about occasionally getting things right, he doesnt seem as funny anymore either.

This is a new game though and I have full confidence that he will be getting way better as time goes on.

Nexic

United States729 Posts

September 14 2010 09:51 GMT

#87

I don't think you can really pass judgement based on the round of 64 of the first season. No hard feelings intended, but Artosis qualified and he hasn't really won anything notable in sc2 afaik.

As it moves into the quarters/semis/finals I think it should be more interesting, and especially in the next season I think we will see a much more competitive tournament. I know JulyZerg said in an interview that he'll be playing, and probably a ton more really high caliber players. Plus more potentially in-depth strategies as players get more time with the game.

Bosu

United States3247 Posts

September 14 2010 13:41 GMT

#88

I think the GSL has been great so far. Normally I can't stand watching any matchup not involving zerg, but I have watched every GSL game and find almost all of them enjoyable. Lots of different builds from all races.

And I think the casting is fucking amazing. Artosis knows a ton of shit and is super funny. Tasteless game knowledge is obviously not as high as Artosis, but he is super funny too. I think they make a great duo.

lac29

United States1485 Posts

September 14 2010 15:05 GMT

#89

Because there are so many tourneys already I don't see what's so wrong about complaining about balance RIGHT NOW. They released the game knowing that there would be a bunch of money tourneys on the line. The expectation is that it should be up to a certain standard of balance ... well with the current state ... it's not up to par imo.

So, I agree with the OP.

leetchaos

United States395 Posts

September 14 2010 17:49 GMT

#90

Go watch some BW matches from the infancy of esports, you might notice the same things.

Tomken

Norway1144 Posts

September 15 2010 16:17 GMT

#91

On September 12 2010 03:17 Xeris wrote:
Your problem is that you only started watching BW in its prime. Ever watch BW games from 2000? Watch Boxer destroy Blackman in WCG with microing 7 marines and 1 medic because the level of play was so bad that his godly micro could win games. People sucked donkey shit at BW until 2005 because people hadn't figured out how to really PLAY the game yet.

SC2 is not even 2 months into release and you're griping about the quality of play. Relax

Most people know how to play now cause of bw, so I don't see your point..

LastWish

2013 Posts

September 15 2010 20:00 GMT

#92

Maybe SC2 has some hope, but not before some expansion is out.
It looks similiar to w3 ROC, the games were so trash back then :
- mass huntress
- mass talon
- mass crypt fiend
- mass shaman + which doctor
...
Utter trash, but things have changed to a lot better after FT came out.

Tasteless performance is rather unprofessional, no comentator should boast and take credit for something like that. Imagine Nal_ra would boast that he was the "one" that started to use fast expanding. Not to mention his skills are lightyears away from tastelesses.
This early hype is killing the game aswell. Why the hell is everyone making super tourneys(full of noobs) and mass commenting a game that is 2 months after release?
No wonder every commentator just tells what he would or wouldn't do at the specific point in game.
Hell yeah everyone is right, because noone really knows what is right or wrong this early.

Illusion.

United States348 Posts

September 15 2010 20:58 GMT

#93

i think its just the fact that there havnt been many great games SO FAR. TBH last night idra vs lotze game 3 was epic. i enjoyed watching it...

I think sc2 needs klazart back he introduced me to the game with his passion, and commentators havnt been showing me much passion