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So who else is rather disappointed by the quality of GSL?
Having watched a BW professional scene since '07, I've had a lot of respect for progamers who are just unbelievably skilled and many times those gamers showed me an amazement that hooked me to play bw.
Often times, I've had geek chills from plays that I cannot execute, build orders that are crystal crisp, and ceremonies that are enjoyable to watch after the match. Players seemed to be more enthusiastic and games were by far more entertaining. In addition, there were always a theme involved around different periods, such as 6 dragons of protoss, ssang-park zerg, lee ssang generation, bisu-stork domination, etc.
Watching GSL, the future seems rather bleak. I'm a terran user myself and I have to admit terran is broken. Moreover, I haven't seen any plays that I myself cannot execute (except for inca’s and tester’s force field micro). Build orders are all over the place, more free-style-ish. It seems like terran can execute ANY build order they would like and it's the other races that have to adapt to near perfect level or they die. A lot of GSL players don’t have a clue about the game too. They are like “let me see if this works, if not, oh WELLZ I AIN’T MAD.”
The battles are not dynamic. It occurs so fast and once one side loses, it’s over for him (most of the time). In starcraft bw it was possible for player who lost a major battle to come back with creative play and overwhelming macro abilities. In sc2, it’s near impossible to lose a major battle and come back. So after anticipation of big macro games where players have 3-4 bases, if players prematurely engage in battle and one side lose, the game’s over. How anticlimatic is that?
Casters sometimes get on my nerves too. They say stuff that they themselves don’t know how it works. For example, tasteless keeps saying 1/1/1 build is so called “Tasteless build.” I believe it was originally created by JustFakeWerra. It’s ridiculous how he credits that build as if it was originally created by other person. Everybody knows marine, raven (point defense drone), banshee, tanks are over powered vs protoss. I used that to get top 200 in NA server and I never knew tasteless even played terran. In addition, I think it’s ridiculous to say how they say players are playing “bad,” when they admittedly acknowledge game is premature and anything can be good or bad (or is it that whatever they think good is good? No.). Please, drop the negatives. Try to see it from the player’s perspective, NOT yours. Although it sounds contradictory since I bashed player’s bad quality of games in above paragraph, it just doesn’t touch well with me when casters say negative things because apparently players playing are better than them.
I think my post was rather disorganized but I hope I got my message across.
 
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sc2 is part of the disappointment for me... as you said it seems very fragile. One thing goes wrong and the game ends immediately. I've been wanting to write about this for a while... is this because the game is new and therefore can't possibly be stable yet? should I be patient? or should I be angry, because the game developers and their corporate structure knew the precedent- esports already existed, they knew what standard of depth and competition requirements was set for them. I don't know. I don't want my love of professional broodwar to cloud my judgement.
regarding professionalism, Tasteless and Artosis are definitely more relaxed because they know their bosses aren't looking over their shoulders to check to see what they're saying on stream. Some people like that, some people don't. Reminds me a bit of scrappy fighting game streams.
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Comparing the OSL final with the IEM germany final, BW >>>>>>>>>> SC2 in its current state.
I feel blizz did a really good job with SC2 in regards to the design and gameplay but a lot of their balance decisions are questionable.
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The Tasteless build was a joke. I'm not sure if that makes him come across as a better caster though. But you have to understand some things. First these are NOT progamers. Some may have been B team BW players, or retired players, but most of these guys have never gamed professionally. Also it's the 1st round. There are going to be some one sided match ups. You see Jaedong rofl stomp some people in the first rounds of tournaments. Finally the point of commentators is that they COMMENT on what the players are doing. If a player plays badly, then commentators can point that out. Have you ever watched early BW? The play there is spectacularly bad compared to modern play, so just be patient and give players some time to practice.
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read this again.... find the mistakes...
(hint: sc2 is just over 1 month old - compared to 12 years bw)
and for some other stuff in there: i think you take stuff to seriouse like the "tastless build" thing.
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watch sc2 instead, much better game
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You're comparing progamers to people who are nowhere near progaming status. I don't really see the point.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On September 12 2010 02:30 LOLWHATALOSER wrote:
watch sc2 instead, much better game
LOLWHATALOSER....
j/k..
sometimes i feel like i hate sc2 more for the fact the trouble blizzards been causing BW...well was also kinda annoyed at the hype it built up too and all the new members on TL back then..
anyway i also watched a bit of GSL the past few days because i was curious ( never watched any beta streams or followed sc2 much before) and it seemed like many of the games ended like how OP said too.
just my random comment though since i don't watch sc2 that much.
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I do agree with you that sc2 so far has not been the quality of most other competitive, and even semi-competitive games. I almost fall asleep whenever I watch a game where both players play standard. The only thing worth watching is seeing players innovate and try out new strategies and seeing the opponent adapt to it. Right now sc2 may seem boring, but I still think it has potential. Right now the best sc2 players are just b-teamers in scbw, so I didn't expect extremely high level play and innovation to begin with. Once bw pro gamer start moving over, things will pick up a lot.
The 1/1/1 build isn't a single build, it's just the idea of getting one of each unit producing structure. There are a lot of variations of it with different timings. The Tasteless build is not the 1/1/1 itself, it's one variation.
When they say a player is playing bad, most of the time they are right. Some mistakes are obviously mistakes and not obscure play.
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I'm the biggest Tasteless fanboy in the history of the world and even I'm disappointed with his SC2 knowledge.
x.x maybe its just cuz I watched him when I knew nothing about BW either, but I feel like he understood that game better.
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You're not dissapointed with the GSL, you're dissapointed with SC2. Fine, so be it, all these things has been stated a million times. If you prefer BW, then play that. I realize this is your blog, but the amount of BW players being butthurt is getting quite silly. Just play whatever game you want to play.
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nah not disappointed
scbw and sc2 have different styles, if you want to watch scbw, go ahead, its a great game and i like watching top players play
lately im preferring sc2 but thats probably because im also playing it
imo both are really fun to watch
i do think sometimes that the observers are missing too much stuff, but ofcourse they are new at this too
about commentating Tasteless was a little rusty the first 2-3 days but hes getting a lot better already
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On September 12 2010 02:44 gillon wrote:
You're not dissapointed with the GSL, you're dissapointed with SC2. Fine, so be it, all these things has been stated a million times. If you prefer BW, then play that. I realize this is your blog, but the amount of BW players being butthurt is getting quite silly. Just play whatever game you want to play.
wtf man can someone not even voice his disappointment of the game?
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The only series so far that I've watched that was TRULY entertaining was TLO vs Losira.
That was back and forth fun.
Don't see it often though
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I'd agree that so far, the SC2 games haven't been all that thrilling. It's easy to forget, though, that SC2 is a really really new game. Brood War took years to get to the place it's at now, so I think it's a bit premature to give up on SC2 yet.
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On September 12 2010 02:29 ohN wrote:
Comparing the OSL final with the IEM germany final, BW >>>>>>>>>> SC2 in its current state.
I feel blizz did a really good job with SC2 in regards to the design and gameplay but a lot of their balance decisions are questionable.
Haha I rather think it's the other way, their design decisions make it crappy to watch.
Some examples?
-Adding strong T1.5 units which can end games quickly and limit the amount of possible tactics
-High Air-Ground damage on low tech levels (Banshee/Voidray) which can end a game easily. Especially Voidray, one voidray can end a game in a flash. This prohibits many tactics.
-Unspectacular micro compared to Vultures/Lurkers and other units with high damage output skills (Lurker needs burrow so they have to use a skill to attack). Micro is mostly beeing cut down to positioning, hit and run and focus fire. That's NOT spectacular.
-Zerg became kinda one-dimensional less complex race with less possibilities
-Low collision sizes make micro less spectacular once again and make battles end in no time, that's not nice to watch. The reason simply is that more units can move into attack position faster, so rather than 40% of each armies fighting and 60% beeing blocked (makes it a long fight), every unit can attack at the same time and battles end in a few seconds.
However, I specifically like the GSL! They have two good commentators, offer a free stream and show partially really good matches and players. Of course we cannot expect them to be way better than us already, since the game is too young for that... The progamers have to learn as well.
I think everything which makes GSL worse than Broodwar are Blizzards crappy design decisions.
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I'm not very far through watching the GSL, but I hope that once I'm caught up I'll have nicer things to say. And definitely you can't expect great matches in the round of 64, before the wheat is separated from the chaff... we really do have high standards lol. We've been spoiled in this community~
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Iran17695 Posts
Your problem is that you only started watching BW in its prime. Ever watch BW games from 2000? Watch Boxer destroy Blackman in WCG with microing 7 marines and 1 medic because the level of play was so bad that his godly micro could win games. People sucked donkey shit at BW until 2005 because people hadn't figured out how to really PLAY the game yet.
SC2 is not even 2 months into release and you're griping about the quality of play. Relax
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On September 12 2010 03:17 Xeris wrote:
Your problem is that you only started watching BW in its prime. Ever watch BW games from 2000? Watch Boxer destroy Blackman in WCG with microing 7 marines and 1 medic because the level of play was so bad that his godly micro could win games. People sucked donkey shit at BW until 2005 because people hadn't figured out how to really PLAY the game yet.
SC2 is not even 2 months into release and you're griping about the quality of play. Relax
I agree with this, although at the same time I feel that SC2 has some design problems that should be fixed. Namely the ridiculous amount of damage that units, especially terran units, deal out right now, and the poor design of zerg in general. Good thing we have 2 expansions down the line.
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On September 12 2010 03:17 Xeris wrote:
Your problem is that you only started watching BW in its prime. Ever watch BW games from 2000? Watch Boxer destroy Blackman in WCG with microing 7 marines and 1 medic because the level of play was so bad that his godly micro could win games. People sucked donkey shit at BW until 2005 because people hadn't figured out how to really PLAY the game yet.
SC2 is not even 2 months into release and you're griping about the quality of play. Relax At least back in 2000 Boxer's play was impressive, even if it was still heavily flawed. Right now it's very hard to be impressed watching sc2 games =/
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EPT
