• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:34
CEST 15:34
KST 22:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles7[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China10Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL81
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Server Blocker RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier Small VOD Thread 2.0 Last Minute Live-Report Thread Resource!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 748 users

Disappointed by GSL

Blogs > ziz
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
ziz
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
203 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-11 17:20:29
September 11 2010 17:18 GMT
#1
So who else is rather disappointed by the quality of GSL?

Having watched a BW professional scene since '07, I've had a lot of respect for progamers who are just unbelievably skilled and many times those gamers showed me an amazement that hooked me to play bw.

Often times, I've had geek chills from plays that I cannot execute, build orders that are crystal crisp, and ceremonies that are enjoyable to watch after the match. Players seemed to be more enthusiastic and games were by far more entertaining. In addition, there were always a theme involved around different periods, such as 6 dragons of protoss, ssang-park zerg, lee ssang generation, bisu-stork domination, etc.

Watching GSL, the future seems rather bleak. I'm a terran user myself and I have to admit terran is broken. Moreover, I haven't seen any plays that I myself cannot execute (except for inca’s and tester’s force field micro). Build orders are all over the place, more free-style-ish. It seems like terran can execute ANY build order they would like and it's the other races that have to adapt to near perfect level or they die. A lot of GSL players don’t have a clue about the game too. They are like “let me see if this works, if not, oh WELLZ I AIN’T MAD.”

The battles are not dynamic. It occurs so fast and once one side loses, it’s over for him (most of the time). In starcraft bw it was possible for player who lost a major battle to come back with creative play and overwhelming macro abilities. In sc2, it’s near impossible to lose a major battle and come back. So after anticipation of big macro games where players have 3-4 bases, if players prematurely engage in battle and one side lose, the game’s over. How anticlimatic is that?

Casters sometimes get on my nerves too. They say stuff that they themselves don’t know how it works. For example, tasteless keeps saying 1/1/1 build is so called “Tasteless build.” I believe it was originally created by JustFakeWerra. It’s ridiculous how he credits that build as if it was originally created by other person. Everybody knows marine, raven (point defense drone), banshee, tanks are over powered vs protoss. I used that to get top 200 in NA server and I never knew tasteless even played terran. In addition, I think it’s ridiculous to say how they say players are playing “bad,” when they admittedly acknowledge game is premature and anything can be good or bad (or is it that whatever they think good is good? No.). Please, drop the negatives. Try to see it from the player’s perspective, NOT yours. Although it sounds contradictory since I bashed player’s bad quality of games in above paragraph, it just doesn’t touch well with me when casters say negative things because apparently players playing are better than them.

I think my post was rather disorganized but I hope I got my message across.

***
Delerium
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States324 Posts
September 11 2010 17:25 GMT
#2
sc2 is part of the disappointment for me... as you said it seems very fragile. One thing goes wrong and the game ends immediately. I've been wanting to write about this for a while... is this because the game is new and therefore can't possibly be stable yet? should I be patient? or should I be angry, because the game developers and their corporate structure knew the precedent- esports already existed, they knew what standard of depth and competition requirements was set for them. I don't know. I don't want my love of professional broodwar to cloud my judgement.

regarding professionalism, Tasteless and Artosis are definitely more relaxed because they know their bosses aren't looking over their shoulders to check to see what they're saying on stream. Some people like that, some people don't. Reminds me a bit of scrappy fighting game streams.
ohN
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States1075 Posts
September 11 2010 17:29 GMT
#3
Comparing the OSL final with the IEM germany final, BW >>>>>>>>>> SC2 in its current state.

I feel blizz did a really good job with SC2 in regards to the design and gameplay but a lot of their balance decisions are questionable.
drag_
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
England425 Posts
September 11 2010 17:29 GMT
#4
The Tasteless build was a joke. I'm not sure if that makes him come across as a better caster though. But you have to understand some things. First these are NOT progamers. Some may have been B team BW players, or retired players, but most of these guys have never gamed professionally. Also it's the 1st round. There are going to be some one sided match ups. You see Jaedong rofl stomp some people in the first rounds of tournaments. Finally the point of commentators is that they COMMENT on what the players are doing. If a player plays badly, then commentators can point that out. Have you ever watched early BW? The play there is spectacularly bad compared to modern play, so just be patient and give players some time to practice.
green.at
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Austria1459 Posts
September 11 2010 17:30 GMT
#5
read this again.... find the mistakes...
(hint: sc2 is just over 1 month old - compared to 12 years bw)

and for some other stuff in there: i think you take stuff to seriouse like the "tastless build" thing.


Inputting special characters into chat should no longer cause the game to crash.
LOLWHATALOSER
Profile Joined September 2010
3 Posts
September 11 2010 17:30 GMT
#6
watch sc2 instead, much better game
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
September 11 2010 17:34 GMT
#7
You're comparing progamers to people who are nowhere near progaming status. I don't really see the point.
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
September 11 2010 17:34 GMT
#8
On September 12 2010 02:30 LOLWHATALOSER wrote:
watch sc2 instead, much better game


LOLWHATALOSER....



j/k..
sometimes i feel like i hate sc2 more for the fact the trouble blizzards been causing BW...well was also kinda annoyed at the hype it built up too and all the new members on TL back then..

anyway i also watched a bit of GSL the past few days because i was curious ( never watched any beta streams or followed sc2 much before) and it seemed like many of the games ended like how OP said too.

just my random comment though since i don't watch sc2 that much.
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
September 11 2010 17:35 GMT
#9
I do agree with you that sc2 so far has not been the quality of most other competitive, and even semi-competitive games. I almost fall asleep whenever I watch a game where both players play standard. The only thing worth watching is seeing players innovate and try out new strategies and seeing the opponent adapt to it. Right now sc2 may seem boring, but I still think it has potential. Right now the best sc2 players are just b-teamers in scbw, so I didn't expect extremely high level play and innovation to begin with. Once bw pro gamer start moving over, things will pick up a lot.

The 1/1/1 build isn't a single build, it's just the idea of getting one of each unit producing structure. There are a lot of variations of it with different timings. The Tasteless build is not the 1/1/1 itself, it's one variation.

When they say a player is playing bad, most of the time they are right. Some mistakes are obviously mistakes and not obscure play.
mOnion
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5657 Posts
September 11 2010 17:39 GMT
#10
I'm the biggest Tasteless fanboy in the history of the world and even I'm disappointed with his SC2 knowledge.

x.x maybe its just cuz I watched him when I knew nothing about BW either, but I feel like he understood that game better.
☆★☆ 7486!!! Join the Ban mOnion Anti-Trolling Initiative! - Caller | "on a scale of machine to 10, how bad is that Zerg?" - LZgamer | you are the new tl.net bonjwa monion, congrats - Rekrul | "Cheeseburgers dynamite lilacs" - Chill
gillon
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Sweden1578 Posts
September 11 2010 17:44 GMT
#11
You're not dissapointed with the GSL, you're dissapointed with SC2. Fine, so be it, all these things has been stated a million times. If you prefer BW, then play that. I realize this is your blog, but the amount of BW players being butthurt is getting quite silly. Just play whatever game you want to play.
www.teamproperty.net | "You should hate losing, but you should never fear defeat." - 이윤열
geek0
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark32 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-11 17:46:58
September 11 2010 17:45 GMT
#12
nah not disappointed

scbw and sc2 have different styles, if you want to watch scbw, go ahead, its a great game and i like watching top players play

lately im preferring sc2 but thats probably because im also playing it
imo both are really fun to watch

i do think sometimes that the observers are missing too much stuff, but ofcourse they are new at this too

about commentating Tasteless was a little rusty the first 2-3 days but hes getting a lot better already
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
September 11 2010 17:47 GMT
#13
On September 12 2010 02:44 gillon wrote:
You're not dissapointed with the GSL, you're dissapointed with SC2. Fine, so be it, all these things has been stated a million times. If you prefer BW, then play that. I realize this is your blog, but the amount of BW players being butthurt is getting quite silly. Just play whatever game you want to play.


wtf man can someone not even voice his disappointment of the game?
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
September 11 2010 17:49 GMT
#14
The only series so far that I've watched that was TRULY entertaining was TLO vs Losira.

That was back and forth fun.

Don't see it often though
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
Lucktar
Profile Joined July 2008
United States526 Posts
September 11 2010 17:58 GMT
#15
I'd agree that so far, the SC2 games haven't been all that thrilling. It's easy to forget, though, that SC2 is a really really new game. Brood War took years to get to the place it's at now, so I think it's a bit premature to give up on SC2 yet.
NaDa, much, ZerO fighting!
teekesselchen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany886 Posts
September 11 2010 18:15 GMT
#16
On September 12 2010 02:29 ohN wrote:
Comparing the OSL final with the IEM germany final, BW >>>>>>>>>> SC2 in its current state.

I feel blizz did a really good job with SC2 in regards to the design and gameplay but a lot of their balance decisions are questionable.

Haha I rather think it's the other way, their design decisions make it crappy to watch.
Some examples?
-Adding strong T1.5 units which can end games quickly and limit the amount of possible tactics
-High Air-Ground damage on low tech levels (Banshee/Voidray) which can end a game easily. Especially Voidray, one voidray can end a game in a flash. This prohibits many tactics.
-Unspectacular micro compared to Vultures/Lurkers and other units with high damage output skills (Lurker needs burrow so they have to use a skill to attack). Micro is mostly beeing cut down to positioning, hit and run and focus fire. That's NOT spectacular.
-Zerg became kinda one-dimensional less complex race with less possibilities
-Low collision sizes make micro less spectacular once again and make battles end in no time, that's not nice to watch. The reason simply is that more units can move into attack position faster, so rather than 40% of each armies fighting and 60% beeing blocked (makes it a long fight), every unit can attack at the same time and battles end in a few seconds.

However, I specifically like the GSL! They have two good commentators, offer a free stream and show partially really good matches and players. Of course we cannot expect them to be way better than us already, since the game is too young for that... The progamers have to learn as well.
I think everything which makes GSL worse than Broodwar are Blizzards crappy design decisions.
When they were introduced, he made a witticism, hoping to be liked. She laughed extremely hard, hoping to be liked. Then each drove home alone, staring straight ahead, with the very same twist to their faces.
Delerium
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States324 Posts
September 11 2010 18:16 GMT
#17
I'm not very far through watching the GSL, but I hope that once I'm caught up I'll have nicer things to say. And definitely you can't expect great matches in the round of 64, before the wheat is separated from the chaff... we really do have high standards lol. We've been spoiled in this community~
Xeris
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Iran17695 Posts
September 11 2010 18:17 GMT
#18
Your problem is that you only started watching BW in its prime. Ever watch BW games from 2000? Watch Boxer destroy Blackman in WCG with microing 7 marines and 1 medic because the level of play was so bad that his godly micro could win games. People sucked donkey shit at BW until 2005 because people hadn't figured out how to really PLAY the game yet.

SC2 is not even 2 months into release and you're griping about the quality of play. Relax
twitter.com/xerislight -- follow me~~
Spawkuring
Profile Joined July 2008
United States755 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-11 18:40:01
September 11 2010 18:39 GMT
#19
On September 12 2010 03:17 Xeris wrote:
Your problem is that you only started watching BW in its prime. Ever watch BW games from 2000? Watch Boxer destroy Blackman in WCG with microing 7 marines and 1 medic because the level of play was so bad that his godly micro could win games. People sucked donkey shit at BW until 2005 because people hadn't figured out how to really PLAY the game yet.

SC2 is not even 2 months into release and you're griping about the quality of play. Relax


I agree with this, although at the same time I feel that SC2 has some design problems that should be fixed. Namely the ridiculous amount of damage that units, especially terran units, deal out right now, and the poor design of zerg in general. Good thing we have 2 expansions down the line.
Tsagacity
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States2124 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-11 18:43:05
September 11 2010 18:42 GMT
#20
On September 12 2010 03:17 Xeris wrote:
Your problem is that you only started watching BW in its prime. Ever watch BW games from 2000? Watch Boxer destroy Blackman in WCG with microing 7 marines and 1 medic because the level of play was so bad that his godly micro could win games. People sucked donkey shit at BW until 2005 because people hadn't figured out how to really PLAY the game yet.

SC2 is not even 2 months into release and you're griping about the quality of play. Relax
At least back in 2000 Boxer's play was impressive, even if it was still heavily flawed. Right now it's very hard to be impressed watching sc2 games =/
"Everyone worse than me at video games is a noob. Everyone better than me doesn't have a life."
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 26m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Hui .255
Rex 97
MindelVK 31
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 15690
BeSt 1670
firebathero 1154
EffOrt 816
Nal_rA 536
Larva 449
Mini 359
Last 235
Leta 171
ToSsGirL 102
[ Show more ]
Sea.KH 74
Barracks 41
Sharp 40
Movie 30
Shinee 28
GoRush 27
yabsab 22
Vindicta 22
Hm[arnc] 18
IntoTheRainbow 11
SilentControl 8
Aegong 2
Terrorterran 2
Dota 2
Gorgc8236
qojqva1753
XcaliburYe323
Counter-Strike
edward100
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor362
Other Games
tarik_tv32952
gofns18905
FrodaN6745
B2W.Neo2463
singsing2149
DeMusliM624
crisheroes510
shahzam486
KnowMe432
XaKoH 216
Pyrionflax140
SortOf124
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 57
• Adnapsc2 16
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler114
League of Legends
• Nemesis4837
Upcoming Events
FEL
1h 26m
Elazer vs Spirit
Gerald vs MaNa
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4h 26m
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Wardi Open
21h 26m
Replay Cast
1d 20h
WardiTV European League
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Epic.LAN
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.