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Some background:
My parents are immigrants, and they've worked extremely hard to get a good life for me and my sister in the United States. They work long hours, and this results in me having to take care of my sister. I get lots of schoolwork, and for the most part I leave my sister alone. She plays her DS and on the computer, etc. etc.
My sister is very competitive. She hates to lose - at anything, really. She's just one of those people who's like that.
She's spoiled - if she loses at something, she'll cry and get pissed and stop playing. This is the result of my parents not having time to spend with her and just buying her stuff to babysit her. It's also my fault - being older than her, I never hung out with her or spent time with her, being occupied with my own homework and hanging out with my own friends all the time.
The Problem:
A few months ago, my sister was playing in a basketball game with her classmates in gym class (she's 10 years old, by the way). Her team lost, and she blamed herself for playing poorly.
When people told her it wasn't her fault, she got even more upset with herself, saying stuff like she sucked at basketball and wished she didn't exist.She basically threw a temper tantrum.
Of course, the school got word and the school psychologist started talking to her. They alerted my parents, and my parents went in and talked with the psychologist.
Then, the school went and hired an independent, third party child psychiatrist without my parents knowing. This person (who I shall refer to as Dr. A) talked with my sister for about one hour.
Dr. A then filed a report, saying that my sister was a wristcutter and wanted to kill herself, which is completely untrue. Dr. A then charged us $400 for the one hour of therapy, which is completely ridiculous, especially since my parents didn't even know about her.
We went on vacation last Thanksgiving on a cruise with some relatives, and Dr. A (crazy lady) told us not to go because she thought my sister would jump off the ship to kill herself. Dr. A said that my sister may attempt tokill herself at any given moment.
(Seriously, my sister's afraid of knives and doesn't even know what wristcutting is. She never said to the psychiatrist that she wanted to cut herself or anything - the psychiatrist pretty much bsed all of that.)
Now the governments involved, we've got government child services agents showing up every week, and they tell us that my sister may be taken away from the family. It's been absolutely devastating to my parents, who only really wanted the best for my sister and I.
My sister's a spoiled brat, yes, but she's never cut herself and she certainly doesn't really want to kill herself. She says stuff because she's pissed and because she hates to lose at anything. Really, she thinks that if she loses at anything she's a complete failure at it.
I'm really torn on this. I know she's completely spoiled and a brat, but the way that the schools and government are treating this is absolute garbage. They're completely overreacting.
I don't really know what to do or how to help my parents. None of the child services people will listen to my parents - they've pretty much only paid attention to the report filed by Dr. A, who is clearly completely crazy and needs to have her license as a psychiatrist revoked.
I dunno why I typed all this stuff out, I guess I just needed to rant a bit. This stuff is pissing me off and has been going on over the course of months. Like I said, I don't know what to do or how to help my family here, as I'm still a minor.
Pretty much, it just sucks.
 
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Can't you just get your sister to admit she's not suicidal and not a cutter?
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What did she say to the school psychologist that made them hire a third party one? Also, how is your sister now? Is she doing ok, if she is, then just tell those agents to fuck off.
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Never trust psychiatrists; they're either psychology majors who couldn't get their PhD or would-be doctors that can't stand blood (hence they become psychiatrists instead of doctors).
As for a solution (not that I'd know), get a lawyer or something?
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Well none of us are certified psychologists but it does sound like your sister has some issues. The fact that the school hired a 3rd party to come in and analyze her THEN go and charge you guys. That annoys me to the bone.
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On May 04 2009 09:51 nataziel wrote:
Can't you just get your sister to admit she's not suicidal and not a cutter?
She's not, and she's admitted it. The government agents do not care...they trust the report of the crazy psychiatrist, and won't leave us alone.
It's not like at any given point my sister said that she was a cutter. I don't even think my sister knows what that is - and she's afraid of knives. The psychiatrist basically made it up and bsed all that garbage.
Edit:
The school hired Dr. A on their own accord, because my sister said the following:
"I wish I didn't exist"
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On May 04 2009 09:53 HumbleZealot wrote:
Never trust psychiatrists; they're either psychology majors who couldn't get their PhD or would-be doctors that can't stand blood (hence they become psychiatrists instead of doctors).
As for a solution (not that I'd know), get a lawyer or something?
Wait, so who do you trust, then?
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just tell her to straighten the fuck up for the sake of the family.. you gotta put some pressure on her and physically discipline her in place of your parents.
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go to another psychiatrist and a report made. shove it in the government agent's face if it is different then the other psychologists.
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On May 04 2009 10:00 Sunhay wrote:
go to another psychiatrist and a report made. shove it in the government agent's face if it is different then the other psychologists.
We've been trying to do that, but honestly the government agent, for whatever reason, is refusing to change their stance on my sister.
also, there's still the issue of the 400 dollars. My family is not rich by any means.
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I'm like that  After losing more then 50 timesin various things, its not so hard to lose anymore ALTHOUGH it still pisses me off. How old are you?
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sounds like she shouldnt have spoken to the school psychologist in the first place. I'll bet there's not enough 10 year olds with psychological problems in the world to justify that profession...
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On May 04 2009 09:53 HumbleZealot wrote:
Never trust psychiatrists; they're either psychology majors who couldn't get their PhD or would-be doctors that can't stand blood (hence they become psychiatrists instead of doctors).
As for a solution (not that I'd know), get a lawyer or something?
Never trust kids on the internet; they're either idiots who don't know shit, or... wait, no. That's it.
It's none too naturally to flip out like that, that's for sure, but I don't know about suicidal (then again, I'm not a quack, or a know-it-all like humblezealot) I still don't get how the school shafted you for $400 there.
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lol a ten year old thinking about suicide... I can't even imagine that.
maybe you could get in contact with your local media to pressure those official jerks.
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On May 04 2009 09:59 nataziel wrote:
TRUST NO ONE!
I agree with this post.
From what you wrote it sounds like she's just being a little attention whore. She probably said a bunch of shit that wasn't even true just to cause up a stir. The Phsychiatrist should have been able to see this. As far as the 10 year old having a sessions without any adult notice and then trying to charge you for it, lol. YOU GUYS should be suing them for taking your fucking kid.
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my brother was like this, he lost a basketball game then started feeling sorry for himself for attention. My dad stopped it short by slapping him in the face. i think the psychiatrists try to control others lives because they fail in their own, goddamn shrinks gave me the time of my life when i had to get a psych eval.
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On May 04 2009 10:21 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:
lol a ten year old thinking about suicide... I can't even imagine that.
maybe you could get in contact with your local media to pressure those official jerks.
i am agree with redbluegreen you should get media on this
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what state are you from?
In this state, at least, schools cannot do that. If I was the parents I would call the school threatening to sue.
Are your parents incompetent or something? No offense, it just doesn't seem like something you should have to be worrying about.
Really I don't mean to insult your parents, but do they speak fluent english? I don't see how this could happen as you portray it without it being immediately obvious that your parents are in the right, and without them immediately contacting the school and getting pissed
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Psychiatrists prescribe drugs, they don't psychologically analyze, that's a psychologist.
If what you're saying is right, Dr. A can't give advice, because it isn't his/her job.
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On May 04 2009 10:59 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Psychiatrists prescribe drugs, they don't psychologically analyze, that's a psychologist.
If what you're saying is right, Dr. A can't give advice, because it isn't his/her job.
uh, no. psychiatrist is just a psychologist who can prescribe meds.
there may be other small differences too, such as understanding of physiology but that's basically what it is.
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The school is so fucked up.
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On May 04 2009 09:45 G0dly wrote:
Dr. A then filed a report, saying that my sister was a wristcutter and wanted to kill herself, which is completely untrue. Dr. A then charged us $400 for the one hour of therapy, which is completely ridiculous, especially since my parents didn't even know about her.
this has actually happened to one of my friends before and she was in no way a "wristcutter" :/ the rapists piss me off >_>
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On May 04 2009 11:02 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2009 10:59 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Psychiatrists prescribe drugs, they don't psychologically analyze, that's a psychologist.
If what you're saying is right, Dr. A can't give advice, because it isn't his/her job. uh, no. psychiatrist is just a psychologist who can prescribe meds. there may be other small differences too, such as understanding of physiology but that's basically what it is.
There's a world of difference, at least, where I'm from.
A psychiatrist has access and ability to utilize the mental health act when deemed necessary.
Their training is completely different to a psychologists, and they deal with the entire spectrum of mental illness, whereas psychologists generally tend to deal with personality disorders. Yes they can deal with personality disorders and psychology related issues as well - it is after all, part of their training.
Clearly the psychiatrist here has identified a safety issue that he/she feels is apparent and has acted on it. Part of every interview is an assessment of safety, which can be inferred either explicitly or implicitly. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt (being her brother) - that she is low risk. However if she's said something to the psychiatrist - then they can't really ignore it, though this has to of course, be taken in context.
Good luck!
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Can't really help but good luck with the scamming crazy-lady dude.
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On May 04 2009 10:51 AlwaysGG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2009 10:21 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:
lol a ten year old thinking about suicide... I can't even imagine that.
maybe you could get in contact with your local media to pressure those official jerks. i am agree with redbluegreen you should get media on this
a word of caution for you... getting the media in on this does not necessarily mean you might get a sympathetic spin of your story from them! this might be possible, especially since your parents are immigrants - prejudice exists. you might end up hurting your case instead...
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On May 04 2009 13:42 FirstProbe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2009 11:02 travis wrote:On May 04 2009 10:59 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Psychiatrists prescribe drugs, they don't psychologically analyze, that's a psychologist.
If what you're saying is right, Dr. A can't give advice, because it isn't his/her job. uh, no. psychiatrist is just a psychologist who can prescribe meds. there may be other small differences too, such as understanding of physiology but that's basically what it is. There's a world of difference, at least, where I'm from. A psychiatrist has access and ability to utilize the mental health act when deemed necessary. Their training is completely different to a psychologists, and they deal with the entire spectrum of mental illness, whereas psychologists generally tend to deal with personality disorders. Yes they can deal with personality disorders and psychology related issues as well - it is after all, part of their training.
well that thing doesnt exist in the USA as far as I know
and yes their training is different. obviously.
basically what I said originally was spot on
hmm, on 2nd thought I come back to this and maybe while what I am saying is correct, the way I am presenting it is a bit unfair. psychiatrists are medical doctors and psychologists are not, I don't want to underrepresent the difference.
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afaik, from the Abnormal Psychology course i've just taken, the key difference between a Psychiatrist and a Psychologist is that that a psychiatrist can prescribe medicine, and a psychologist can't. The finer details differ from professional to professional; everyone has different training backgrounds.
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On May 04 2009 14:20 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2009 13:42 FirstProbe wrote:On May 04 2009 11:02 travis wrote:On May 04 2009 10:59 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Psychiatrists prescribe drugs, they don't psychologically analyze, that's a psychologist.
If what you're saying is right, Dr. A can't give advice, because it isn't his/her job. uh, no. psychiatrist is just a psychologist who can prescribe meds. there may be other small differences too, such as understanding of physiology but that's basically what it is. There's a world of difference, at least, where I'm from. A psychiatrist has access and ability to utilize the mental health act when deemed necessary. Their training is completely different to a psychologists, and they deal with the entire spectrum of mental illness, whereas psychologists generally tend to deal with personality disorders. Yes they can deal with personality disorders and psychology related issues as well - it is after all, part of their training. well that thing doesnt exist in the USA as far as I know and yes their training is different. obviously. basically what I said originally was spot on hmm, on 2nd thought I come back to this and maybe while what I am saying is correct, the way I am presenting it is a bit unfair. psychiatrists are medical doctors and psychologists are not, I don't want to underrepresent the difference.
I didn't mean that you were wrong, only that there's a much different role assumed by the psychiatrists, as opposed to psychologists.
I can't be sure, but I'd be very surprised if you didn't have some variation of the Mental Health Act in the United States. Imagine if someone were acutely mentally unwell and required further assessment of treatment of their condition - how would this be facilitated by other means than law? If a person is non compus mentis (not in the right state of mind to make informed calculated and appropriate decisions), and this is due to a mental illness, then the law has to act as a paternalistic surrogate. That decision has to be made by a trained professional - in this case a psychiatrist - who, I'm sure, will have to work within the regulations of a defined statute to facilitate this.
Also, psychiatrists diagnose and treat mental illness. Psychologists conversely tend to work with mental illness (and in doing, treat/teach ways of managing the illness) but seldom participate in diagnosis and formulation of a complete management plan. While I appreciate that a psychologist may appreciate a variety of mental health conditions, they aren't clinicians and their focus reflects this. As somebody else said, this can vary from professional to professional.
I guess I'm just trying to say that there's more than a small difference between psychologists and psychiatrists - though this difference is sometimes under-appreciated.
edit: I don't mean to suggest that psychologists aren't clinicians (its just the term I use for medically trained professionals).
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yeah sorry I did get a bit defensive, not sure why
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I'd say the best way is to just let it all die down, after things have been set in motion, but with the threat of having her being taken away, if that threat comes to fruition in any way. I third the motion of media attention if it gets to the point where they are actually going to take her away. I really don't understand why they would threaten to take away the child from her parents when the parents didn't do anything. The child is just acting like a kid. It just amazes, shocks, and disturbs me that these people stick their nose in like this, make threats, and so blindly listen to so called authorities. I'd start looking into lawyers to. This must be impinging on some rights here. Isn't one of the amendments to be secure. GAH!!!
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You need to get a lawyer. That's all I have to say.
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On May 04 2009 09:53 HumbleZealot wrote:
Never trust psychiatrists; they're either psychology majors who couldn't get their PhD or would-be doctors that can't stand blood (hence they become psychiatrists instead of doctors).
As for a solution (not that I'd know), get a lawyer or something?
Do you even know the kind of certification you need to become a psychiatrist? You're an idiot.
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although this seems to be a rather one sided representation of what is going on...
srsly the Dr.A person is giving those who work in that field a bad name.
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On May 04 2009 09:59 nataziel wrote:
TRUST NO ONE!
Except the all-powerful TL brain.
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On May 04 2009 19:27 Mortality wrote:
You need to get a lawyer. That's all I have to say.
Not everyone can afford it, you know
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On May 05 2009 00:30 minus_human wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2009 19:27 Mortality wrote:
You need to get a lawyer. That's all I have to say. Not everyone can afford it, you know
Yes but he sounds pretty well off.
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On May 05 2009 00:33 iCCup.d(O.o)a wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2009 00:30 minus_human wrote:On May 04 2009 19:27 Mortality wrote:
You need to get a lawyer. That's all I have to say. Not everyone can afford it, you know Yes but he sounds pretty well off.
Guess you missed the part where he was saying how his family was hurtin over the 400 bones?
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Im really sorry you have to go through this. I wouldn't know what to say. Basically you should prove that your sister doesn't harm herself, I mean its obvious she doesn't have slashes or punctures on her arm right?, She is just really somewhat proud of her competitiveness. Takes it seriously. She will probably not beat herself up about it when she gets older.
I don't know what you could do if the government is involved. I guess the psychologist or whatever is really effed up. Your sister might need some form of medication though. Get an actual diagnosis from someone with credentials.
I mean I never had to deal with your sister, but I have dealt with people that haven't taken their medication, and its impossible to deal with them. So all I can say is get the government and school off yours and her tail.
She probably just needs a different counselor or just needs some time to grow.
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On May 05 2009 01:16 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2009 00:33 iCCup.d(O.o)a wrote:On May 05 2009 00:30 minus_human wrote:On May 04 2009 19:27 Mortality wrote:
You need to get a lawyer. That's all I have to say. Not everyone can afford it, you know Yes but he sounds pretty well off. Guess you missed the part where he was saying how his family was hurtin over the 400 bones?
I suppose I did my bad.
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Has it occurred to anyone that you can talk to a lawyer and find out if he will be agreeable? Not every lawyer will turn you away just because you're poor. A case like this can look really good on a lawyer's resume if there's enough grounds for him to really sick his teeth into a few school administrators.
In other words, go talk to a lawyer on the phone and explain your situation and ask about price and find things out. In the very worst case scenario, you've wasted a few hours of your life, but more likely than not, you will at the very least be given some basic legal advice that will be vastly infinitely superior to anything any of us dumb fucks here can tell you. After all, a gaming forum is not the best place to go when looking for legal advice.
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On May 05 2009 10:30 Mortality wrote:
Has it occurred to anyone that you can talk to a lawyer and find out if he will be agreeable? Not every lawyer will turn you away just because you're poor. A case like this can look really good on a lawyer's resume if there's enough grounds for him to really sick his teeth into a few school administrators.
In other words, go talk to a lawyer on the phone and explain your situation and ask about price and find things out. In the very worst case scenario, you've wasted a few hours of your life, but more likely than not, you will at the very least be given some basic legal advice that will be vastly infinitely superior to anything any of us dumb fucks here can tell you. After all, a gaming forum is not the best place to go when looking for legal advice.
Yes you're correct, consult this thread.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=84245
Scroll down to law.
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any updates on the situation?
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Make sure your parents DO NOT pay DR A the school hired her they should pay her. Maybe try get a second opinion on how your sister really is, because she does have depressive tendencies which make it seem shes suicidal or a self-harmer. IF she is a cutter you will see somewhat noticable scarring which she may hide. Maybe have a weekly family day to spend the whole day together. Also you can talk to her friends they may know whats going on with your sister like how she is around them etc.
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EPT
