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Is Starcraft a "sport"? What about chess, poker, golf, uhh hotdog eating etc.? To me, these questions are fundamentally flawed.
When people says "sport", they usually have a preconceived notion of some activity involving balls, nets, stadiums, and possibly bulky equipment. a Sports are associated with physical activity and professional athletes are those who have managed to excel at a game popular enough to earn them money.
The whole problem revolves around the physical activity. This seems to be the one thing lacking from activities that cause debate over this sports-or-not issue. This is why the arguments against the activity go something like: "You just walk around in golf and swing at a ball!", "You just sit there and look at cards!" or "You just sit in front a computer and click your mouse! Ain't no sport man!"
From this line of reasoning, people usually draw the conclusion that the professional player is wasting his life on a game. While this is less true for golf and poker (i think), Starcraft players still receive these kind of insult. To these disgruntled Youtubers, I ask: what's wrong with playing a game? Professional sports are basically glorified games that have, for some reason, captured our attention and large sums of our money. Look at it from an outsider's perspective: two teams try to kick a ball into opposing nets. Two teams try to hit a ball with a bat and run around bases. Doesn't seem that much different from a guy trying to destroy another guy's base through mouse clicks.
(So ...what the hell was my point again? Yea, stream of consciousness does this to me.) To answer my question, Starcraft is not a "sport", a physical activity, as people envision it. However, I believe Starcraft and Professional sports today belong under a wider umbrella term: Entertainment. We watch, we get entertained, they get rich, everyone's happy. It doesn't matter what the activity is. Heck, if people are interested in watching... farting contests, then I say all the more power to the professional farters. Personally, I'd like to just group all entertainers under a broad category and give them all equal respect.
Well, whoever reads that, thanks! I hope it made some sense.
  
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Starcraft and golf require physical talent, poker doesnt.
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In a way, it is a sport. E-sport to be more specific.
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StarCraft is very much a physical activity.
"Sport is an activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively."
-Wikipedia (yeah yeah, I know it's wikipedia)
Of course it's a sport. Why ask?
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Well put. I actually got into an argument with somebody about this. Unfortunately, I'm not this eloquent. I likes!
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Yea, some people are just too narrow-minded to open their views. :\
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The main debate about this is the difference between a "sport" and a "game." IMO, the major difference between sports and games is physical activity, and while starcraft does require a good amount of physical activity, to me it is still a "game." That being said, there are professional chess players, so what's wrong with professional starcraft players?
Also, being under the cloud term of e-sports does help separate it from other sports as well.
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On October 23 2008 12:04 prOxi.swAMi wrote:
Of course it's a sport. Why ask?
The OP was more subtle.
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On October 23 2008 11:54 Mastermind wrote:
Starcraft and golf require physical talent, poker doesnt.
People have to fight fatigue and impatience to try and stay awake during a high-stakes tourney.
Seems pretty physically demanding to me (esp when compared to SC, not that SC isn't demanding to an extent)
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StarCraft is a mentally and physically tiring sport.
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Physicaally their fingers move super fast :D
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Starcraft is in every way very physical. To train how fat you click/move in every way affects your skill, every unwasted movement goes towards giving you an advantage. While in chess and poker, you can go at a snail's pace and still be the best in the world, Starcraft requires you to be fast.
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1998-2003: Sport no, RTS yes.
2003+: Sport yes, RTS no.
:p
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Katowice25012 Posts
The whole problem revolves around the physical activity
Not at all, the problem revolves around people having a semantic argument about what a 'sport' is and if their favorite activities fall under that umbrella term. Its a ridiculous argument that serves absolutely no purpose.
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Starcraft and other physical sports are quite alike really. Poker may not be seen as a sport either yet it is quite similar to physical sports. The difference is the degree of physicality.
I agree that they are all forms of entertainment but not for the main purpose. I think it lies in the spirit of the competition that makes it so intense and fun to watch, thus entertaining.
Basically we can turn anything into a competition. But in order to capture attention, it requires the competitors to become so attached to it that it becomes their passion and expose it to the community. The popularity of it however, is a whole different situation.
Anyway, basically what I'm trying to say is you don't have to argue if Starcraft is a sport or not. Starcraft and other sports are alike in the way that they can be played professionally in a high competitive level and at the same time be casually played for fun!
Putting it under the entertainment umbrella is a little weak because we will start comparing Starcraft, to sports, to movies, etc. But then again, the competitors are like movie celebrities ">.<"
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E-sports wont make it into mainstream society for a while.
its only big in korea because korea is just awesome
When your average non-gamer thinks about computer games, they think of the little man with the red hat stomping on walking cupcakes, or the average 12 year old sitting infront of a console shooting nazis. Thats where the arguement that e-sports cant be sports comes from.
IMO, feel free to own me
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I would consider something to be a sport if it has a high level of competetiveness and required skill. If things like golf, snooker, darts and shooting all count as sports then SC:BW definitely can be as well.
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i've had this "does e-sports = sports?" debate so many times and owned everyone that tries to argue with me so many times. in the end people just deny that they got beaten and just go with the IM NOT LISTENING TO YOU SO I DIDNT LOSE THE ARGUEMENT BLABLABLA
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games can be a sport
anyone that refuses to accept it will die
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Starcraft is a sport. Have you ever played 8 hours straight? You will be as exhausted as running a few miles nonstop.
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Everyone on TL agree that SC is a sport (I hope!). We need to make other get into the e-sports, more people need to understand.
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Netherlands19135 Posts
I support professional farters. TL should have a section on them.
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It's irrelevant if you define it as a "sport" or not. That's just semantics. You can't disagree that e-sports and sports have many similarities but you also can't deny they're very different.
In the end it's mostly a cultural issue. I bet my money that in 50~60 years the average guy will be go "out" by hanging in a chatroom watching to starcraft 8 with his buddies instead of hanging out in a bar to watch soccer or basketball with his buddies ^^
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On October 23 2008 17:50 pyrogenetix wrote:
i've had this "does e-sports = sports?" debate so many times and owned everyone that tries to argue with me so many times. in the end people just deny that they got beaten and just go with the IM NOT LISTENING TO YOU SO I DIDNT LOSE THE ARGUEMENT BLABLABLA
So you argued pro- e-sport = sport? o_o
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On October 23 2008 21:48 VIB wrote:
It's irrelevant if you define it as a "sport" or not. That's just semantics. You can't disagree that e-sports and sports have many similarities but you also can't deny they're very different.
In the end it's mostly a cultural issue. I bet my money that in 50~60 years the average guy will be go "out" by hanging in a chatroom watching to starcraft 8 with his buddies instead of hanging out in a bar to watch soccer or basketball with his buddies ^^
Yeah, I think we have to wait. But we cant only wait ofc, because everyone isnt watching Starcraft.
edit: omg I became a firebat o_o
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On October 23 2008 21:03 G.s)NarutO wrote:
Starcraft is a sport. Have you ever played 8 hours straight? You will be as exhausted as running a few miles nonstop.
LOL
This is either a HUGE troll, or you're a really big, out of shape nerd.
Starcraft isn't a sport, nor is any other console or computer game. They're just that—games. Same goes for poker, chess, etc. Sports require physical skills. Clicking isn't physical. Simple as that.
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It's a sport but not an athletics.
Hawk: If you play a game for eight hours straight you're a "big, out of shape nerd"?
That's like saying that you're a fagget, o wait, you are 
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Well I'm glad TLers see it as a sport. But man, have any of you guys been to other forums arguing whether or not certain MLG games are sports? Some of the replies are absolutely disgusting.
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=24071182&postRepeater1-p=1
Edit: I apologise for linking that. It's probably almost as bad as the battle.net forum. Hope no one loses too many brain cells.
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On October 23 2008 22:20 _Grazze_ wrote:It's a sport but not an athletics. Hawk: If you play a game for eight hours straight you're a "big, out of shape nerd"? That's like saying that you're a fagget, o wait, you are
Maybe you shud lurn to red befor actin liek a retart LOL!
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On October 23 2008 12:25 BanZu wrote:
Yea, some people are just too narrow-minded to open their views. :\
this
so its settled! Starcraft is a sport! 
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god, god god god god omfg wth
hate bungie.net
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Dictionary.com
1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
English is an evolving language, and will naturally begin to include more and more activities. But it won't be accepted by all.
For instance, I'm hard pressed to call fishing a sport. It's something fat old men do in lazy summer mornings. That doesn't scream sport to me. And I wouldn't consider professional fisheries athletes either, they're working hard, and they have competition but... it just doesn't seem right.
Then you see StarCraft. In the traditional view of a sport, it doesn't match up. And the point is exactly this:
Starcraft is a sport. Have you ever played 8 hours straight? You will be as exhausted as running a few miles nonstop.
A sport where you can actively participate, with no breaks, no subs, for 8 (and for some people, more) without needing rest or anything is ridiculous.
If someone played competetive Hockey for 8 hours straight, they'd be superhuman. It seems likely in my mind that a person would pass out long before that, especially without breaks (the actual average shift in hockey is like 20 to 60 seconds, isn't it?).
If you take Tennis, also considered by many as a legitimate sport, you know that they're getting a break between every point, and the matches really do not last that long. Because they too could collapse.
That's the difference in people's minds. You can marathon a game of cards, computer games, and a lazy morning's fishing, but you can't do it with any traditional definition of sport, like Soccer, Hockey, or Tennis. Although TBH, Soccer is the closest sport to being a marathon, it's still just 90 minutes.
That said, I think the highly competetive nature of SC earns respect all it's own, even if it isn't really a sport, it's okay to call it an e-sport. The only reason to argue SC is a full and genuine sport is because of all the idiots who think that it not being a sport somehow makes it unworthy. But I say forget about these people, they're not worth the effort.
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Sports require physical skills. Clicking isn't physical. Simple as that.
Hand eye co-ordination is a physical skill, and so it clicking... If you told a newb play as fast as they could, to get their apm up, they'd probably still only get like 40 apm. So TBH, your argument is completely moot.
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On October 23 2008 22:18 Hawk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2008 21:03 G.s)NarutO wrote:
Starcraft is a sport. Have you ever played 8 hours straight? You will be as exhausted as running a few miles nonstop. LOL This is either a HUGE troll, or you're a really big, out of shape nerd. Starcraft isn't a sport, nor is any other console or computer game. They're just that—games. Same goes for poker, chess, etc. Sports require physical skills. Clicking isn't physical. Simple as that.
Aaaaah, there we have one of those. Those that have this stonage look on sports. They think athletics and sports are the same thing. Poor beings. I feel sorry for them. I am sad that I see you on this website. How can someone be that narrowminded to not think about others argument and just think they are right all the time? Aaah, now I also see that your country is USA too. What a coincidence.
gtfo
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I consider starcraft more of a sport than baseball. But I don't think many people would agree with me.
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Come on now, clicking as a physical activity? Let's be real here... that exerts about as much energy as wiping your ass does. You've apparently never ran 'a few miles non stop' since I think all of us have done 8 hour game-a-thons here and I've never broken a sweat like I do running.
Sports are events that take athletes to compete. Competitive gaming is everything else—computer games, pool, poker, etc. Takes plenty of skill, but certainly doesn't take an athlete.
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United States22883 Posts
I'm with Psycho and Hawk on this.
BTW, fishing can be an athletic event. I don't even fish, but I realize how difficult it would be to play tug of war with a couple hundred pounds of muscle.
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On October 24 2008 04:27 Hawk wrote:
Come on now, clicking as a physical activity? Let's be real here... that exerts about as much energy as wiping your ass does. You've apparently never ran 'a few miles non stop' since I think all of us have done 8 hour game-a-thons here and I've never broken a sweat like I do running.
Sports are events that take athletes to compete. Competitive gaming is everything else—computer games, pool, poker, etc. Takes plenty of skill, but certainly doesn't take an athlete.
I should pick my words better next time. Sorry for not being clear enough. I will be now.
Starcraft exhaust but not in a way of: I can't move a single finger now, I'm totally tired and stuff.
Starcraft exhausts your ability to focus, to concentrate. If you play on a high level for hours and hours you won't be able to play good, you will lose your concentration and won't be able to achieve good records.
Thats at least one point that makes Starcraft a sport. Do we agree on that? And no, I'm not a fat, out of shape nerd. But I know how hard it is to focus. Actually concentrating exhausts me more than sports.
Also having 350 apm even in long games makes you sweat  !
Edit (definition): "Sport" is a cultural field of activity, in which human beings voluntarily go into a real or only imagined relation to other people with the conscious intention to develop their abilities and accomplishments particularly in the area of skilled motion and to compare themselves with these other people according to rules put self or adopted without damaging them or themselves deliberately.
Means most activities called "sport" are in the area of skilled motion, but not all of them. Also you could say that hand-eye coordination is skilled motion! :D
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Hawk, if I didn't have some self-respect and a LOT of respect for TL, I would just call you a FUCKING RETARD.
But since I'm such a nice guy...I won't comment on the is SC a sport thing, I try to broaden your naive approach a little bit from afar.
You argued with clicking not being a physical activity...and you called out on chess "not being a sport"
Look...I've played chess competitively for YEARS, ever since I was a kid (5 years of age, to be exact). And before you call that "physically undemanding" YOU try to sit through a freaking match lasting 6 hours melting your brain while analyzing infinite amount of moves in your head. I can assure you, it makes you tired quite as well as any "real" sport.
I'm sick of people like you (met quite a few to be honest) that say chess isn't a sport. I bet you're one of those going like "OH, YOU PLAY CHESS? WHAT DOES A CHESS-TRAINING LOOK LIKE? PRACTICING TO LIFT THE PIECES OLOLOL?"
Anyway. See, hockey players get subbed fast, as it'd be humanly impossible to stay on the field longer. Does that make soccer (european football) less sports-like? Because people can be on the field longer? Come the fuck on.
It's not about the need of being an athlete that defines sports. Do you need to be an athlete for golf?
I guess that should address your concerns...
P.s.: My tone is a bit over the top, but FUCK, you annoyed me.
Edit: at least Psychotemplar came up with cohesive arguments, not this jackass "you need to be MANLY to do a REAL sport, if a "SKINNY NERD" can do it too, it isn't a sport OLOLOL! :S +1 soul for Psychotemplar, I'm actually only angry at Hawk.
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In the end, I still think the problem lies in semantics and people's perceptions. "Sports" = worthy of a career, incredible feats of athleticism by superhuman beings etc. "Games" = unworthy, waste of a life, people sitting around exerting no effort etc. To be honest, I don't think we can change these notions without a huge cultural movement. For me, the best case scenario would be for people to acknowledge the differences in meaning of these words and accept that "games" can be just as worthwhile and require just as much skill as any "sport".
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United States22883 Posts
On October 24 2008 05:58 Naib wrote:
Hawk, if I didn't have some self-respect and a LOT of respect for TL, I would just call you a FUCKING RETARD.
But since I'm such a nice guy...I won't comment on the is SC a sport thing, I try to broaden your naive approach a little bit from afar.
You argued with clicking not being a physical activity...and you called out on chess "not being a sport"
Look...I've played chess competitively for YEARS, ever since I was a kid (5 years of age, to be exact). And before you call that "physically undemanding" YOU try to sit through a freaking match lasting 6 hours melting your brain while analyzing infinite amount of moves in your head. I can assure you, it makes you tired quite as well as any "real" sport.
I'm sick of people like you (met quite a few to be honest) that say chess isn't a sport. I bet you're one of those going like "OH, YOU PLAY CHESS? WHAT DOES A CHESS-TRAINING LOOK LIKE? PRACTICING TO LIFT THE PIECES OLOLOL?"
Anyway. See, hockey players get subbed fast, as it'd be humanly impossible to stay on the field longer. Does that make soccer (european football) less sports-like? Because people can be on the field longer? Come the fuck on.
It's not about the need of being an athlete that defines sports. Do you need to be an athlete for golf?
I guess that should address your concerns...
P.s.: My tone is a bit over the top, but FUCK, you annoyed me.
Edit: at least Psychotemplar came up with cohesive arguments, not this jackass "you need to be MANLY to do a REAL sport, if a "SKINNY NERD" can do it too, it isn't a sport OLOLOL! :S +1 soul for Psychotemplar, I'm actually only angry at Hawk.
Try sitting perfectly still for 8 hours. Your brain will go fucking insane but it's still not a freaking sport. If tiring out your brain qualifies as a sport, then what isn't a sport? Taking tests is a sport? Studying is a sport? Reading TL is a sport?
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Lol I have this argument with my brother all the fuckin time.
I'm a nerd and I spend all my time on the computer, while he's outdoorsy and spends all his time biking and rock climbing, etc.
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I can't believe people think a game needs to be physical to be a sport.
Chess is obviously a sport. Poker isn't. SC is. C&C3 isn't. Golf is.
All sports are games. Not all games are sports.
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United States22883 Posts
Chess is obviously a sport. But I'm not going to prove how obvious it is. Because I'm BlackStar.
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On October 24 2008 08:08 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2008 05:58 Naib wrote:
Hawk, if I didn't have some self-respect and a LOT of respect for TL, I would just call you a FUCKING RETARD.
But since I'm such a nice guy...I won't comment on the is SC a sport thing, I try to broaden your naive approach a little bit from afar.
You argued with clicking not being a physical activity...and you called out on chess "not being a sport"
Look...I've played chess competitively for YEARS, ever since I was a kid (5 years of age, to be exact). And before you call that "physically undemanding" YOU try to sit through a freaking match lasting 6 hours melting your brain while analyzing infinite amount of moves in your head. I can assure you, it makes you tired quite as well as any "real" sport.
I'm sick of people like you (met quite a few to be honest) that say chess isn't a sport. I bet you're one of those going like "OH, YOU PLAY CHESS? WHAT DOES A CHESS-TRAINING LOOK LIKE? PRACTICING TO LIFT THE PIECES OLOLOL?"
Anyway. See, hockey players get subbed fast, as it'd be humanly impossible to stay on the field longer. Does that make soccer (european football) less sports-like? Because people can be on the field longer? Come the fuck on.
It's not about the need of being an athlete that defines sports. Do you need to be an athlete for golf?
I guess that should address your concerns...
P.s.: My tone is a bit over the top, but FUCK, you annoyed me.
Edit: at least Psychotemplar came up with cohesive arguments, not this jackass "you need to be MANLY to do a REAL sport, if a "SKINNY NERD" can do it too, it isn't a sport OLOLOL! :S +1 soul for Psychotemplar, I'm actually only angry at Hawk. Try sitting perfectly still for 8 hours. Your brain will go fucking insane but it's still not a freaking sport. If tiring out your brain qualifies as a sport, then what isn't a sport? Taking tests is a sport? Studying is a sport? Reading TL is a sport?
It is _PHYSICALLY_ demanding to play chess like that. Don't refute until you didn't _TRY IT YOURSELF_. Just like playing SC that long is physically demanding as well (on a higher level - not casuals like you and / or Hawk). The level of physical demand isn't the same in the "real" sports either - I already adressed that. So where's your point?
Chess IS a sport. If we use the term 'sport' a bit loose, I WOULD call SC a sport as well. It is definitely somewhere inbetween games and sport.
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On October 24 2008 12:42 BlackStar wrote:
I can't believe people think a game needs to be physical to be a sport.
Chess is obviously a sport. Poker isn't. SC is. C&C3 isn't. Golf is.
All sports are games. Not all games are sports.
An excellent argument!
On October 24 2008 14:55 Naib wrote:
It is _PHYSICALLY_ demanding to play chess like that. Don't refute until you didn't _TRY IT YOURSELF_. Just like playing SC that long is physically demanding as well (on a higher level - not casuals like you and / or Hawk). The level of physical demand isn't the same in the "real" sports either - I already adressed that. So where's your point?
Chess IS a sport. If we use the term 'sport' a bit loose, I WOULD call SC a sport as well. It is definitely somewhere inbetween games and sport.
How the hell is slapping at a keyboard physically demanding? I do it for 9hrs a day at work, then several more at home/class. The only physical demands on your body are not to slouch too bad to ruin your posture. Whoopdie Doo.
You're confusing physically draining with mentally draining.
On October 24 2008 08:08 Jibba wrote:
Try sitting perfectly still for 8 hours. Your brain will go fucking insane but it's still not a freaking sport. If tiring out your brain qualifies as a sport, then what isn't a sport? Taking tests is a sport? Studying is a sport? Reading TL is a sport?
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You all already know why poker is not a sport. If poker was suddenly an olympic sport no well-known poker player would show up. They know it's gambling with skill. They know it's all about money. They all don't have sportsmanship. Sportsmanship is actually unpokerlike. That's why they do split pots and stuff in cash games. The integrity of the game doesn't even exist.
Negraneu agrees with me on this.
Chess should have been olympic many many years ago. Golf will be next Olympics. And SC is only a sport in Korea.
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requires a lot of physical activity. With age people don't do as well which also follows along the line of sport
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EPT
