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Brand Management in Esports - Page 2

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endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
January 07 2015 13:27 GMT
#21
On January 07 2015 20:01 Kipsate wrote:
The E looks like an internet explorer in Kespa

therefore it is bad.


rofl I couldn't tell exactly what was bothering me with this logo. Cannot be unseen.
ॐ
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32158 Posts
January 07 2015 14:10 GMT
#22
i really wanna hear why someone thinks that kespa logo is good tbh.
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
WinterWoes
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia450 Posts
January 07 2015 15:09 GMT
#23
Well, for me, the colour of the kespa logo is pleasant to look at and the letters are manipulated well enough so it is not dull without an icon. I like the clean look of it with the spacing and the e does not bother me at all since it is done to differentiate the lower case letter.
Moderator
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-07 17:19:04
January 07 2015 15:18 GMT
#24
On January 07 2015 11:36 WinterWoes wrote:
I also like the KeSPA logo. Could you explain why it is terrible?

Ok, fine, I'll actually do some analysis...

But first, for logo design you can read up on a few basic things on Smashing Mag's article here: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/08/26/vital-tips-for-effective-logo-design/ but generally - and for usability purposes - a logo needs to be
  1. Simple
  2. Memorable
  3. Timeless
  4. Versatile
  5. Appropriate (cough cough... StarTale...)

As for the actual design principles when creating a logo?
  • Balance is the distribution of the visual weight of objects, colors, texture, and space. If the design was a scale, these elements should be balanced to make a design feel stable. In symmetrical balance, the elements used on one side of the design are similar to those on the other side; in asymmetrical balance, the sides are different but still look balanced. In radial balance, the elements are arranged around a central point and may be similar.
  • Emphasis is the part of the design that catches the viewer’s attention. Usually the artist will make one area stand out by contrasting it with other areas. The area could be different in size, color, texture, shape, etc.
  • Movement is the path the viewer’s eye takes through the work of art, often to focal areas. Such movement can be directed along lines, edges, shape, and color within the work of art.
  • Pattern is the repeating of an object or symbol all over the work of art.
  • Repetition works with pattern to make the work of art seem active. The repetition of elements of design creates unity within the work of art.
  • Proportion is the feeling of unity created when all parts (sizes, amounts, or number) relate well with each other. When drawing the human figure, proportion can refer to the size of the head compared to the rest of the body.
  • Rhythm is created when one or more elements of design are used repeatedly to create a feeling of organized movement. Rhythm creates a mood like music or dancing. To keep rhythm exciting and active, variety is essential.
  • Variety is the use of several elements of design to hold the viewer’s attention and to guide the viewer’s eye through and around the work of art.
  • Unity is the feeling of harmony between all parts of the work of art, which creates a sense of completeness.

Ok, so now that we've got that down, here is a quick grid showing visual relationships within KeSPAs logo:

[image loading]


So, how does their logo compare? Well the grid should clearly show that there was very little consideration in regards to the visual consistency and spacial/proportional relationships within the wordmark. In fact, there are only about 2 patterns that have any relation to one another. Another thing to note is that while the E in the logo does have a centrality/emphasis to it, the circular shape of the "K+E" has little to do with the entire rest of the wordmark (shape wise) and feels very foreign; these two points in tandem really mar the visual consistency of the logo.

The text is also visually on different levels, which isn't necessarily a problem except that because of how it's done here it has a very unbalanced look; this of course being that the positional relationship between the letters is nonexistent.

So basically, KeSPAs logo couldn't give two shits about visual consistency, or balance, or rhythm, or proportion, and I'm really shocked that it was allowed in to go into the wild...Really.
Administrator
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32158 Posts
January 07 2015 15:49 GMT
#25
That's a spot on analysis haha. The KE looks like a different font and it hurts my head
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
SatedSC2
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
England3012 Posts
January 07 2015 17:04 GMT
#26
--- Nuked ---
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
January 07 2015 17:28 GMT
#27
On January 07 2015 11:44 jubil wrote:
For me nothing beats the geometric simplicity of the Prime logo. It's elegant enough that you can easily recognize it when it's small, and when it's larger there's still some detail (you can trace the letters out).

I also liked New Star HoSeo's logo for similar reasons: elegant, clean, but still distinctive.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]


I do feel that eSports in general has been getting less cringy-worthy bad logos as it gets more professional over time.

I wasn't so much a fan of NSHoseo because it's not super versatile, but their general idea of embedding the NSH into the icon is kind of interesting. I think where they go wrong is in the typeface, and maybe the visual weight of the monogram, but it's stil linteresting.

Prime however I think has a great logo. Their monogram is really well done. Their typeface is a bit bland though.
Administrator
WinterWoes
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia450 Posts
January 07 2015 17:33 GMT
#28
On January 08 2015 00:18 wo1fwood wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On January 07 2015 11:36 WinterWoes wrote:
I also like the KeSPA logo. Could you explain why it is terrible?

Ok, fine, I'll actually do some analysis...

But first, for logo design you can read up on a few basic things on Smashing Mag's article here: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/08/26/vital-tips-for-effective-logo-design/ but generally - and for usability purposes - a logo needs to be
  1. Simple
  2. Memorable
  3. Timeless
  4. Versatile
  5. Appropriate (cough cough... StarTale...)

As for the actual design principles when creating a logo?
  • Balance is the distribution of the visual weight of objects, colors, texture, and space. If the design was a scale, these elements should be balanced to make a design feel stable. In symmetrical balance, the elements used on one side of the design are similar to those on the other side; in asymmetrical balance, the sides are different but still look balanced. In radial balance, the elements are arranged around a central point and may be similar.
  • Emphasis is the part of the design that catches the viewer’s attention. Usually the artist will make one area stand out by contrasting it with other areas. The area could be different in size, color, texture, shape, etc.
  • Movement is the path the viewer’s eye takes through the work of art, often to focal areas. Such movement can be directed along lines, edges, shape, and color within the work of art.
  • Pattern is the repeating of an object or symbol all over the work of art.
  • Repetition works with pattern to make the work of art seem active. The repetition of elements of design creates unity within the work of art.
  • Proportion is the feeling of unity created when all parts (sizes, amounts, or number) relate well with each other. When drawing the human figure, proportion can refer to the size of the head compared to the rest of the body.
  • Rhythm is created when one or more elements of design are used repeatedly to create a feeling of organized movement. Rhythm creates a mood like music or dancing. To keep rhythm exciting and active, variety is essential.
  • Variety is the use of several elements of design to hold the viewer’s attention and to guide the viewer’s eye through and around the work of art.
  • Unity is the feeling of harmony between all parts of the work of art, which creates a sense of completeness.

Ok, so now that we've got that down, here is a quick grid showing visual relationships within KeSPAs logo:

[image loading]


So, how does their logo compare? Well the grid should clearly show that there was very little consideration in regards to the visual consistency and spacial/proportional relationships within the wordmark. In fact, there are only about 2 patterns that have any relation to one another. Another thing to note is that while the E in the logo does have a centrality/emphasis to it, the circular shape of the "K+E" has little to do with the entire rest of the wordmark (shape wise) and feels very foreign; these two points in tandem really mar the visual consistency of the logo.

The text is also visually on different levels, which isn't necessarily a problem except that because of how it's done here it has a very unbalanced look; this of course being that the positional relationship between the letters is nonexistent.

So basically, KeSPAs logo couldn't give two shits about visual consistency, or balance, or rhythm, or proportion, and I'm really shocked that it was allowed in to go into the wild...Really.


Thanks for the explanation. It indeed has some flaws with its consistency and balance. Do you have a favourite wordmark logo? It is interesting to see how organisations style their name in a logo to try and represent themselves.
Moderator
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
January 07 2015 18:53 GMT
#29
I don't have "a" favorite as it's contrary to my beliefs that in art one thing can be better than all others. Everything gives you something a little different, and that's part of the enjoyment.

That said, if I were to just look at wordmark logos in esports (which are pretty rare), who immediately comes to mind? Proleague, KT Rollster, OSL, and that's about it.

If I were to expand into looking at wordmarks (only that part) as part of a logo the list immediately gets a lot larger, and I think of Zephyr, CJ Entus, NaVi, Virtus Pro, Fnatic, LGD, and ESL.
Administrator
Xeris
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Iran17695 Posts
January 07 2015 20:29 GMT
#30
On January 08 2015 02:28 wo1fwood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2015 11:44 jubil wrote:
For me nothing beats the geometric simplicity of the Prime logo. It's elegant enough that you can easily recognize it when it's small, and when it's larger there's still some detail (you can trace the letters out).

I also liked New Star HoSeo's logo for similar reasons: elegant, clean, but still distinctive.

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
[image loading]


I do feel that eSports in general has been getting less cringy-worthy bad logos as it gets more professional over time.

I wasn't so much a fan of NSHoseo because it's not super versatile, but their general idea of embedding the NSH into the icon is kind of interesting. I think where they go wrong is in the typeface, and maybe the visual weight of the monogram, but it's stil linteresting.

Prime however I think has a great logo. Their monogram is really well done. Their typeface is a bit bland though.


I'm generally against gradients for no reason, in general. If it doesn't add anything, don't use it. So for NSH, why does it have a metallic gradient? The visualization of the brand in the logo should give you some insight into what the brand is.
twitter.com/xerislight -- follow me~~
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-07 22:16:56
January 07 2015 22:15 GMT
#31
I think that's more a current design aesthetic that makes skeumorphism less popular these days. It's not necessarily bad in constructing an identity or logo, but I would definitely agree with you that if your design can't work as a flat, single colored object then you've already lost a lot of usability.

Also, yea I've found constructing a symbol to encapsulate the purpose or scope of the organization without being derivative is really hard. Like, reeeallly hard.
Administrator
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10861 Posts
January 08 2015 02:58 GMT
#32
I don't know why you think it is relevant to go into negative space being used and the levels that the words are on being different, I feel there is a huge difference between ART and LOGO / BANNERS.

The thing is that "KeSPA" is written as K e S P A, therefor it would make sense that the banner is not on the same level when it comes to letters, although none of the letters are on the same level at all, I understand that.

The thing is that the KeSPA logo does look creative, interesting ( because the way the letters work together), but obviously the logo could use touching up and more detail, but then again I feel the simplicity and complexity at the same time of the logo kind of represents KeSPA fairly well.

They are a complex simple organization, I think the brand / logo fits well.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
SKC
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil18828 Posts
January 08 2015 03:09 GMT
#33
It looks like they used two halves of two diferent logos. It's not the lowercase "e", KeS and PA use diferent artstyles and it just looks weird.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10861 Posts
January 08 2015 04:07 GMT
#34
On January 08 2015 12:09 SKC wrote:
It looks like they used two halves of two diferent logos. It's not the lowercase "e", KeS and PA use diferent artstyles and it just looks weird.


Yea I guess it does seem kind of strange like two different font's or art styles in a way, I feel that the logo itself has a lot of potential though.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
shiroiusagi
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
SoCal, USA3955 Posts
January 08 2015 05:41 GMT
#35
Nice read. :D I do hate it when I have to scavenge for a logo too many times, I know TL is guilty of this as well. |D With I really wish press kits were a standard. @@ It would be nice to have photos of each player and stuff (I understand that sometimes getting a photo of your whole team might be hard when they are all over the world, but there should be some effort into it. >< .) And leagues/organizations and totally agree ESL is really good with this. Also DreamHack has a pack of logos as well, but I dunno about for their Opens. (Though over time it became hard to find that logo pack zip again.)
Graphics@shiroiusagi_ | shiroiusagi.net
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24367 Posts
January 08 2015 06:20 GMT
#36
So wait that doesn't say "K-Spa". I thought it was a logo for the new Korean E-sports spa?

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
January 08 2015 06:25 GMT
#37
[image loading]

The new EG brand is a pretty straightfoward logo and pretty versatile:

[image loading]
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-08 06:48:35
January 08 2015 06:48 GMT
#38
Cool post.

I think this is really more a discussion about logos and how your logo can help distinguish your brand.

So much more goes into brand management than just the (admittedly very important) logo.

While Virtus Pro has a killer logo, how effective or powerful is their brand? When you think out Virtus Pro, does it inspire anything more than the thought of "that's an eSports team, right?"

Liquid on the other hand is a phenomenal example of a great brand: eSports, yes, but also synonymous with high level StarCraft, with hard core gaming and gamers. Community. Competition. Some might even argue family.

Brand is the strength behind that logo. People don't see the Liquid logo and think "Oh, that's an eSports team, right?". They see the logo and think "That organization really defines what eSports is all about".

Now, tackling the question of how you create that is a different can of worms entirely.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-08 09:37:07
January 08 2015 09:21 GMT
#39
How do I upload a document? I can upload the full brand guide of what Clauf was if you guys want an example.

[image loading]

It's in Korean though, so it might be a bit difficult to understand.




I agree with Mr. Bitter that I thought this was actual brand management (Team Liquid is a brand). Though I think I'm a bit more skeptical in just how recognized and synonymous TL is with eSports as a whole. Thankfully, that's improving more and more.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
HaRuHi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
1220 Posts
January 08 2015 09:43 GMT
#40
Can someone explain the mousesports logo to me?
I don't see a mouse, only a magic lantern. :<
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