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<link href='http://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Roboto+Slab:400,300,700,100' rel='stylesheet' type='text/css'><style type="text/css">#wwbody{font-size:1.125em;font-family:"Roboto Slab", sans-serif;font-weight:400;padding:3em 1em;color:rgb(60,60,60);line-height:1.5em}#wwbody img{padding:1.25em}#wwbody h1,#wwbody h2{margin:0;color:#244673}#wwbody a{color:#244673}</style><div id="wwbody">Ever since treehugger published his blog on esports logos, I've been meaning to add to the discussion of esports branding and why a lot of it - to be frank - really sucks. It isn't so much that I like or dislike logos of various organizations (i'll get to this in a sec), but perhaps more that most organizations are pretty awful in how they approach their branding. There are three major parts to effectively handling your brand. The first one is communication.
<h2>Communication</h2>
Take TeamLiquid for example. As much as I like liquid, we don't really have a great strategy from which to communicate with other organizations our branding. Considering the situation:
partner: "Hey, we need your logo for some promotional material?"
liquid: "the TL logo?"
partner: "yea, could you send it our way?"
liquid(internally): "hey guys, does someone have the TL logo, we need it for something!"
some graphics person rummages around for the thing
There's something inherently inefficient with the handling of this situation and is where ESL has been a shining example of how to handle these kinds of requests. They, like most established businesses have developed a style guide, usage guideline or a press kit for their branding and have a way on the web to get it without anyone having to contact them. (esl gaming's logo can be found Here). What's more, when you unpack the archive you'll not only get an array of pngs, and the original vector, but note a jpg that shows you ESL's usage guidelines, or a press kit so that you have an idea on how they want you to use their logo, and ways that they have said that you should not (colors, orientations, etc...). Not all organizations do this second part, but many do (every university that I have worked for ALL have this).
It's this kind of strategy that makes me like ESL even more than I already do, because as a news organization, covering them is very easy. Blizzard also deserves special note here, as they have an extensive press kit section on their site that includes assets from many of their properties, and are all easily accessible. WCS could use some work though...
<h2>What Assets are you Providing</h2>
You'll also note that I mentioned pngs previously and not jpgs. The reason is that png's obviously allow for background transparency. Unfortunately with jpg, or the occasion where someone made the background white in a png (yes this happens) someone then has to spend extra time masking the background out just to get a decent looking image. This assumes you have more than a 300x300px image to work with. Another of the biggest problems with esports logos in that even when you can get the logo, it's often times low resolution, or highly pixilated, or on a background that would make using it either impossible, or a lot more work.
In fact to combat this problem I rebuilt many esports organization logos for TL as vector graphics just so our department or the site had prettier and easier things to work with. Yes I know that this makes the logo's not technically "official", but between using or rebuilding, I'll take the later. Scary enough, the list of things I've redone have included images from the following organizations: valve, dreamhack, mlg, ongamenet, sktelecom, gsl, gom, kespa, proleague, osl, spotv, axiom, invasion, samsung galaxy, prime, hypergloryteam, titan, d2l, g-league, starladder, fragbite, weplay, homestory cup, wec, and zotac.
I should note that I might have been able to easily contact some of these organizations to get their original logo (axiom comes to mind), but a google search should be able to land me where I need to get to 99% of the time. Also, I should note that valve is 'kind' of a special case as I have personally reached out to them but have never been able to get in contact. If only they had a press section on their site... (hint hint)
<h2>Flexibility</h2>
The final piece in why most esports logos are poorly handled is that many organizations aren't thinking about how the logo is going to be used when they design it. Is it going to be on merchandise? In print? What kind of print? On the web? On the side of a car? To illustrate, here's a few example cases, but first:
<h2>Branding Primer</h2>
Before I talk about this, a few terms so we're on the same page:
- A Logo is the complete package, which can be only one of or include all of the following:
- Icon: The graphic thing (Nike Swoosh, Apple's Apple, Liquid Horse)
- Wordmark: The text is the logo (Kellogs, Blizzard, Valve)
- Monogram: Usually a graphic that incorporates a truncated portion of the company name (General Electric's GE, GSL, EG, EA)
As an example TL's logo is a combination of an icon (horse) and a wordmark (text). These can be arranged in essentially 4 configurations, as the icon only, wordmark only, icon next to wordmark, and the icon above wordmark. This is what our internal guidelines say we should stick to, and generally that's a pretty standard way to do it. Ok, case studies!
<h2>Case 1: Complexity's Complexity</h2>
Ok, so I'm not a fan of this logo for a bunch of reasons. The first is probably that the embedded C-G of the background swooshes (complexity gaming, or ClG when top left to bottom right viewed (whoops, did you catch the clarity problem?)) seem overly squashed, and thus the whole logo feels overly constrained. It's also a bit too visually busy for my tastes as the C+G seems to be lost in the fray of the icon and the wordmark. Finally, the wordmark is hard to pick out even at this size, so in order to combat this Complexity slightly retooled the text adding a thicker black border to the logo so it stood out more with more depth. That's not fixing it guys...
Ok, so what about where it's going to be used though? Well what if you wanted to embroider the logo onto a hoodie, or jacket? Due to the overlap of the icon and wordmark and the shapes/angles being used that'd be prohibitably expensive, so forget the chance of that ever happening. Ok, so what about printing it instead? Well now we have to talk about the size a little. What if the printing is going to be 50cm wide (~2")? The icon might be ok, but the wordmark will get completely lost in the business of the design and it's size. So we could do that but we'd be sacrificing its recognizability a bit, which is not really ideal.
<h2>Case 2: DK and Blob Syndrome</h2>
Whoah, you're picking on DK's logo? Well yes. DK's logo is a combination of an icon and a monogram (dragon knight in the bg, DK foreground), with a wordmark below. To say nothing of the typeface (which doesn't fit in the slightest), the main issue with DK is not recognizability, it in fact excels at that (though the icon portion is pretty overly complex and obscured). What is problematic is when you start to re-orient the logo, all of the complexity that is in the design gets completely lost after a certain point. As an example, here's dk's logo as a 16px wide, and 16px tall image:
The problem as you'll note is that the logo is very inflexible and becomes unintelligible at those sizes, 16px tall is about the very edge of recognizability, but that already is far too large for many web standard usages.
This highlights the last major point about logo designs that are generally inflexible. Your logo might look ok at 64px, or at 200, but what about as a 16x16 favicon, on a pin, or on a pen, or on a billboard? Perhaps a thunderstick? What about a keycap? I'm sorry to say that here is where DK doesn't really perform well as the smaller it gets (distance from our eyes too), the more it's shape distorts and becomes a blob of grey and red. I shouldn't be too hard however because a great many esports logos fall prey to this inflexibility issue, but it is a problem that apparently people are not thinking about.
<h2>Case 3: Kespa...</h2>
No, I'm not even going to go into details... The above logo is really terrible, don't ever do this. ^^
Edit: ok, someone asked me to explain, so I did on page 2.
<h2>Case 4: Virtus Pro</h2>
See that polar bear? He's sneering at your bad logos and proclaiming to the world that he is a force to be reckoned with. It's a bit of hyperbole but I should be praising the person who created this logo. It uses space effectively, has a clear and shape with good proportions that doesn't distort as it scales, and its color scheme is a clear identifier. This is a great example of good logo design in esports (minus the weird pathing issues in a few places that they should fix). I will mention that as I don't speak Russian I can't figure if they a press section on their site, but I can still get their logo from a google search.
Edit: fuse to the rescue http://virtus.pro/info/about/brandbook/
<h2>Recap, and Research</h2>
Disregarding the elephant in the room when talking about logo design (the artistic acumen required) here's a recap of 3 things I've talked about in this blog that would greatly help in order for esports branding to really grow: - Have logos available on your website, with usage guidelines
- Provide logo's in their original format as transparent png's (a 300x300 image is not enough), psds, or vectors (p.s. in a few years time there's zero excuse to not have a svg of your logo available)
- Understanding how your logo is going to be used, where, and dealing with that in your design process
That would at least get us to a place where people can access and share stuff about your organization without it being a visual chore or relying on liquipedia (lol) so that they'd be shared in as many ways as possible.
If you want to learn more about branding and get ideas, Under Consideration's Brand New Is an excellent resource. Really. Also coincidentally they have a link to sports logos right now: http://news.sportslogos.net/2014/12/30/best-worst-new-logos-of-2014-sportslogos-net-readers-choice-awards/ . It also happens to be a great repository for sports logos.</div>
 
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
![[image loading]](http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/lol.gamepedia.com/f/fa/Gama_Bears.png?version=36e0b20ffc7d102755d8f67a47fc8b4f)
Rawr
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Amazing post this is very relevant for me as I would love to start up an esport organisation aswell!
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United States33326 Posts
holy fuck, the last logo from that sportslogos site is atttttrocious
![[image loading]](http://content.sportslogos.net/news/2014/12/Worst-Primary-Logo-2014-1st-SWPA-Magic.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pimrl.jpg)
hehe
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KeSPA's brand / logo looks SICK. dunno what you are talking about... I never saw the new one even, that looks amazing though.
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On January 07 2015 08:36 GGzerG wrote:
KeSPA's brand / logo looks SICK. dunno what you are talking about... I never saw the new one even, that looks amazing though.
I think kespa one looks good too
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Australia450 Posts
I also like the KeSPA logo. Could you explain why it is terrible?
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For me nothing beats the geometric simplicity of the Prime logo. It's elegant enough that you can easily recognize it when it's small, and when it's larger there's still some detail (you can trace the letters out).
I also liked New Star HoSeo's logo for similar reasons: elegant, clean, but still distinctive.
+ Show Spoiler +
I do feel that eSports in general has been getting less cringy-worthy bad logos as it gets more professional over time.
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The A and D in DK's logo are giving me a fucking aneurysm right now THANKS
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On January 07 2015 11:36 WinterWoes wrote:
I also like the KeSPA logo. Could you explain why it is terrible?
I think part of the problem is that it's using negative space for the e. I would guess this may not work so well at small sizes either. Also, the first KES section has rounded edges and heavily manipulated shape in order to create the negative space E, which doesn't fit with the hard edges of the PA. there's shading on the inner part of the E while there's no shading on anywhere else.
All in all it's very inconsistent with itself.
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gradient, not shading, but ya... those are two pretty good reasons why it's bad.
there should be a purpose for every element in a good design. if there's no good reason for the gradient to be there, then it's a bad choice, and I can't see any particular reason for it
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On January 07 2015 07:29 Waxangel wrote:holy fuck, the last logo from that sportslogos site is atttttrocious + Show Spoiler +
"Well... we were thinking it should have like a black top hat like magician's use you know, cause were team Magic..."
"And put some action lines in there there so it looks exciting!"
"Yeah! Yeah! Put the action lines in there! And probably like some stars too you know, we want this to really make an impression!"
"Yeah and then we need something that really says 'were a hockey team' without saying 'were a hockey team' cause we don't want it to be tacky you know..."
"IVE GOT IT! IVE GOT IT! We'll put a hockey stick for the 'I' in magic, and then we'll put our gold medal we won last year right there in the logo so everyone knows we're champions!"
"...brilliant"
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Corporate/Brand Identity seems to be ignored by many companies in every industry.
Another thing I want to add is that the color of the brand is also very important. It is always nice to provide a Pantone color for your brand so that when someone want to use the brand's color then they know the right color to use.
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I don't care what you people say, the KeSPA Logo re instates all of my faith in KeSPA in the first place.
The KeSPA Logo is so damn good / sexy, that is why all of you are jealous, because you dislike KeSPA In the first place and are jealous you didn't think of the awesome logo first.
KeSPA FIGHTING!!!
:O
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On January 07 2015 16:16 GGzerG wrote:
I don't care what you people say, the KeSPA Logo re instates all of my faith in KeSPA in the first place.
The KeSPA Logo is so damn good / sexy, that is why all of you are jealous, because you dislike KeSPA In the first place and are jealous you didn't think of the awesome logo first.
KeSPA FIGHTING!!!
:O
when i first saw the logo i couldn't figure it out LOL
oops
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Netherlands45349 Posts
The E looks like an internet explorer in Kespa
therefore it is bad.
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On January 07 2015 20:01 Kipsate wrote:
The E looks like an internet explorer in Kespa
therefore it is bad.
truth
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On January 07 2015 20:01 Kipsate wrote:
The E looks like an internet explorer in Kespa
therefore it is bad.
rofl I couldn't tell exactly what was bothering me with this logo. Cannot be unseen.
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i really wanna hear why someone thinks that kespa logo is good tbh.
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Australia450 Posts
Well, for me, the colour of the kespa logo is pleasant to look at and the letters are manipulated well enough so it is not dull without an icon. I like the clean look of it with the spacing and the e does not bother me at all since it is done to differentiate the lower case letter.
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On January 07 2015 11:36 WinterWoes wrote:
I also like the KeSPA logo. Could you explain why it is terrible?
Ok, fine, I'll actually do some analysis... 
But first, for logo design you can read up on a few basic things on Smashing Mag's article here: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/08/26/vital-tips-for-effective-logo-design/ but generally - and for usability purposes - a logo needs to be- Simple
- Memorable
- Timeless
- Versatile
- Appropriate (cough cough... StarTale...)
As for the actual design principles when creating a logo?
- Balance is the distribution of the visual weight of objects, colors, texture, and space. If the design was a scale, these elements should be balanced to make a design feel stable. In symmetrical balance, the elements used on one side of the design are similar to those on the other side; in asymmetrical balance, the sides are different but still look balanced. In radial balance, the elements are arranged around a central point and may be similar.
- Emphasis is the part of the design that catches the viewer’s attention. Usually the artist will make one area stand out by contrasting it with other areas. The area could be different in size, color, texture, shape, etc.
- Movement is the path the viewer’s eye takes through the work of art, often to focal areas. Such movement can be directed along lines, edges, shape, and color within the work of art.
- Pattern is the repeating of an object or symbol all over the work of art.
- Repetition works with pattern to make the work of art seem active. The repetition of elements of design creates unity within the work of art.
- Proportion is the feeling of unity created when all parts (sizes, amounts, or number) relate well with each other. When drawing the human figure, proportion can refer to the size of the head compared to the rest of the body.
- Rhythm is created when one or more elements of design are used repeatedly to create a feeling of organized movement. Rhythm creates a mood like music or dancing. To keep rhythm exciting and active, variety is essential.
- Variety is the use of several elements of design to hold the viewer’s attention and to guide the viewer’s eye through and around the work of art.
- Unity is the feeling of harmony between all parts of the work of art, which creates a sense of completeness.
Ok, so now that we've got that down, here is a quick grid showing visual relationships within KeSPAs logo:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WuVaIa9.jpg)
So, how does their logo compare? Well the grid should clearly show that there was very little consideration in regards to the visual consistency and spacial/proportional relationships within the wordmark. In fact, there are only about 2 patterns that have any relation to one another. Another thing to note is that while the E in the logo does have a centrality/emphasis to it, the circular shape of the "K+E" has little to do with the entire rest of the wordmark (shape wise) and feels very foreign; these two points in tandem really mar the visual consistency of the logo.
The text is also visually on different levels, which isn't necessarily a problem except that because of how it's done here it has a very unbalanced look; this of course being that the positional relationship between the letters is nonexistent.
So basically, KeSPAs logo couldn't give two shits about visual consistency, or balance, or rhythm, or proportion, and I'm really shocked that it was allowed in to go into the wild...Really.
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That's a spot on analysis haha. The KE looks like a different font and it hurts my head
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On January 07 2015 11:44 jubil wrote:For me nothing beats the geometric simplicity of the Prime logo. It's elegant enough that you can easily recognize it when it's small, and when it's larger there's still some detail (you can trace the letters out). I also liked New Star HoSeo's logo for similar reasons: elegant, clean, but still distinctive. + Show Spoiler +I do feel that eSports in general has been getting less cringy-worthy bad logos as it gets more professional over time.
I wasn't so much a fan of NSHoseo because it's not super versatile, but their general idea of embedding the NSH into the icon is kind of interesting. I think where they go wrong is in the typeface, and maybe the visual weight of the monogram, but it's stil linteresting.
Prime however I think has a great logo. Their monogram is really well done. Their typeface is a bit bland though.
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Australia450 Posts
On January 08 2015 00:18 wo1fwood wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 07 2015 11:36 WinterWoes wrote:
I also like the KeSPA logo. Could you explain why it is terrible? Ok, fine, I'll actually do some analysis... But first, for logo design you can read up on a few basic things on Smashing Mag's article here: http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/08/26/vital-tips-for-effective-logo-design/ but generally - and for usability purposes - a logo needs to be - Simple
- Memorable
- Timeless
- Versatile
- Appropriate (cough cough... StarTale...)
As for the actual design principles when creating a logo? - Balance is the distribution of the visual weight of objects, colors, texture, and space. If the design was a scale, these elements should be balanced to make a design feel stable. In symmetrical balance, the elements used on one side of the design are similar to those on the other side; in asymmetrical balance, the sides are different but still look balanced. In radial balance, the elements are arranged around a central point and may be similar.
- Emphasis is the part of the design that catches the viewer’s attention. Usually the artist will make one area stand out by contrasting it with other areas. The area could be different in size, color, texture, shape, etc.
- Movement is the path the viewer’s eye takes through the work of art, often to focal areas. Such movement can be directed along lines, edges, shape, and color within the work of art.
- Pattern is the repeating of an object or symbol all over the work of art.
- Repetition works with pattern to make the work of art seem active. The repetition of elements of design creates unity within the work of art.
- Proportion is the feeling of unity created when all parts (sizes, amounts, or number) relate well with each other. When drawing the human figure, proportion can refer to the size of the head compared to the rest of the body.
- Rhythm is created when one or more elements of design are used repeatedly to create a feeling of organized movement. Rhythm creates a mood like music or dancing. To keep rhythm exciting and active, variety is essential.
- Variety is the use of several elements of design to hold the viewer’s attention and to guide the viewer’s eye through and around the work of art.
- Unity is the feeling of harmony between all parts of the work of art, which creates a sense of completeness.
Ok, so now that we've got that down, here is a quick grid showing visual relationships within KeSPAs logo: So, how does their logo compare? Well the grid should clearly show that there was very little consideration in regards to the visual consistency and spacial/proportional relationships within the wordmark. In fact, there are only about 2 patterns that have any relation to one another. Another thing to note is that while the E in the logo does have a centrality/emphasis to it, the circular shape of the "K+E" has little to do with the entire rest of the wordmark (shape wise) and feels very foreign; these two points in tandem really mar the visual consistency of the logo. The text is also visually on different levels, which isn't necessarily a problem except that because of how it's done here it has a very unbalanced look; this of course being that the positional relationship between the letters is nonexistent. So basically, KeSPAs logo couldn't give two shits about visual consistency, or balance, or rhythm, or proportion, and I'm really shocked that it was allowed in to go into the wild...Really.
Thanks for the explanation. It indeed has some flaws with its consistency and balance. Do you have a favourite wordmark logo? It is interesting to see how organisations style their name in a logo to try and represent themselves.
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I don't have "a" favorite as it's contrary to my beliefs that in art one thing can be better than all others. Everything gives you something a little different, and that's part of the enjoyment.
That said, if I were to just look at wordmark logos in esports (which are pretty rare), who immediately comes to mind? Proleague, KT Rollster, OSL, and that's about it.
If I were to expand into looking at wordmarks (only that part) as part of a logo the list immediately gets a lot larger, and I think of Zephyr, CJ Entus, NaVi, Virtus Pro, Fnatic, LGD, and ESL.
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On January 08 2015 02:28 wo1fwood wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 11:44 jubil wrote:For me nothing beats the geometric simplicity of the Prime logo. It's elegant enough that you can easily recognize it when it's small, and when it's larger there's still some detail (you can trace the letters out). I also liked New Star HoSeo's logo for similar reasons: elegant, clean, but still distinctive. + Show Spoiler +I do feel that eSports in general has been getting less cringy-worthy bad logos as it gets more professional over time. I wasn't so much a fan of NSHoseo because it's not super versatile, but their general idea of embedding the NSH into the icon is kind of interesting. I think where they go wrong is in the typeface, and maybe the visual weight of the monogram, but it's stil linteresting. Prime however I think has a great logo. Their monogram is really well done. Their typeface is a bit bland though.
I'm generally against gradients for no reason, in general. If it doesn't add anything, don't use it. So for NSH, why does it have a metallic gradient? The visualization of the brand in the logo should give you some insight into what the brand is.
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I think that's more a current design aesthetic that makes skeumorphism less popular these days. It's not necessarily bad in constructing an identity or logo, but I would definitely agree with you that if your design can't work as a flat, single colored object then you've already lost a lot of usability.
Also, yea I've found constructing a symbol to encapsulate the purpose or scope of the organization without being derivative is really hard. Like, reeeallly hard.
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I don't know why you think it is relevant to go into negative space being used and the levels that the words are on being different, I feel there is a huge difference between ART and LOGO / BANNERS.
The thing is that "KeSPA" is written as K e S P A, therefor it would make sense that the banner is not on the same level when it comes to letters, although none of the letters are on the same level at all, I understand that.
The thing is that the KeSPA logo does look creative, interesting ( because the way the letters work together), but obviously the logo could use touching up and more detail, but then again I feel the simplicity and complexity at the same time of the logo kind of represents KeSPA fairly well.
They are a complex simple organization, I think the brand / logo fits well.
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It looks like they used two halves of two diferent logos. It's not the lowercase "e", KeS and PA use diferent artstyles and it just looks weird.
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On January 08 2015 12:09 SKC wrote:
It looks like they used two halves of two diferent logos. It's not the lowercase "e", KeS and PA use diferent artstyles and it just looks weird.
Yea I guess it does seem kind of strange like two different font's or art styles in a way, I feel that the logo itself has a lot of potential though.
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SoCal, USA3955 Posts
Nice read. :D I do hate it when I have to scavenge for a logo too many times, I know TL is guilty of this as well. |D With I really wish press kits were a standard. @@ It would be nice to have photos of each player and stuff (I understand that sometimes getting a photo of your whole team might be hard when they are all over the world, but there should be some effort into it. >< .) And leagues/organizations and totally agree ESL is really good with this. Also DreamHack has a pack of logos as well, but I dunno about for their Opens. (Though over time it became hard to find that logo pack zip again.)
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So wait that doesn't say "K-Spa". I thought it was a logo for the new Korean E-sports spa?
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![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/552887903676674048/gLiSxdxV.jpeg)
The new EG brand is a pretty straightfoward logo and pretty versatile:
![[image loading]](http://www.winterfox.gg/images/logo.png)
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Cool post.
I think this is really more a discussion about logos and how your logo can help distinguish your brand.
So much more goes into brand management than just the (admittedly very important) logo.
While Virtus Pro has a killer logo, how effective or powerful is their brand? When you think out Virtus Pro, does it inspire anything more than the thought of "that's an eSports team, right?"
Liquid on the other hand is a phenomenal example of a great brand: eSports, yes, but also synonymous with high level StarCraft, with hard core gaming and gamers. Community. Competition. Some might even argue family.
Brand is the strength behind that logo. People don't see the Liquid logo and think "Oh, that's an eSports team, right?". They see the logo and think "That organization really defines what eSports is all about".
Now, tackling the question of how you create that is a different can of worms entirely.
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How do I upload a document? I can upload the full brand guide of what Clauf was if you guys want an example.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DNy4wHH.png)
It's in Korean though, so it might be a bit difficult to understand.
I agree with Mr. Bitter that I thought this was actual brand management (Team Liquid is a brand). Though I think I'm a bit more skeptical in just how recognized and synonymous TL is with eSports as a whole. Thankfully, that's improving more and more.
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Can someone explain the mousesports logo to me?
I don't see a mouse, only a magic lantern. :<
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On January 08 2015 18:43 HaRuHi wrote:
Can someone explain the mousesports logo to me?
I don't see a mouse, only a magic lantern. :<
the mouse is looking to the right. The big loop is its ear outline
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This is really the matter of opinion again. The beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.
Personally I think the virtus pro-logo you're praising is very uninspirational and drowns to the masses, since it looks like every other ice-hockey team logo.
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We are not talking beauty here  logos are not paintings. We are talking efficiency. Brand. Your logo needs to be easily recognizable, needs to be able to fit any size etc. the complexity logo is just awful in every regard.
The virtus pro logo is really simple and I agree on the uninspirational part but it is very efficient at what it is supposed to do.
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On January 08 2015 15:48 MrBitter wrote:
Cool post.
I think this is really more a discussion about logos and how your logo can help distinguish your brand.
So much more goes into brand management than just the (admittedly very important) logo.
While Virtus Pro has a killer logo, how effective or powerful is their brand? When you think out Virtus Pro, does it inspire anything more than the thought of "that's an eSports team, right?"
Liquid on the other hand is a phenomenal example of a great brand: eSports, yes, but also synonymous with high level StarCraft, with hard core gaming and gamers. Community. Competition. Some might even argue family.
Brand is the strength behind that logo. People don't see the Liquid logo and think "Oh, that's an eSports team, right?". They see the logo and think "That organization really defines what eSports is all about".
Now, tackling the question of how you create that is a different can of worms entirely.
Those are very good points Ben. I kind of skirted the larger scope of things because I don't really have a good answer to that at the moment; what I could discuss was better asset management from organizations at least a little, though I do meander a little...
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United States33326 Posts
On January 08 2015 18:21 Torte de Lini wrote:How do I upload a document? I can upload the full brand guide of what Clauf was if you guys want an example. It's in Korean though, so it might be a bit difficult to understand.
I agree with Mr. Bitter that I thought this was actual brand management (Team Liquid is a brand). Though I think I'm a bit more skeptical in just how recognized and synonymous TL is with eSports as a whole. Thankfully, that's improving more and more.
fuck you
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On January 08 2015 18:45 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 18:43 HaRuHi wrote:
Can someone explain the mousesports logo to me?
I don't see a mouse, only a magic lantern. :< the mouse is looking to the right. The big loop is its ear outline
Thank you Torte de Lini <3
Found a link where someone colored the logo
+ Show Spoiler +
I guess they really don't know how to draw a mouse. ^^
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On January 09 2015 03:22 RouaF wrote:We are not talking beauty here logos are not paintings. We are talking efficiency. Brand. Your logo needs to be easily recognizable, needs to be able to fit any size etc. the complexity logo is just awful in every regard. The virtus pro logo is really simple and I agree on the uninspirational part but it is very efficient at what it is supposed to do.
Well..
Not all logos need to be simple or have as much parallel lines than possible. Not all logos even need to be shrinked into 1x1pixel size nor need to resemble an animal head. Not all of them needs to be simple enough to be easily printed into t-shirt.
Some logos are designed not to draw attention at all. Some of them does not need to be easily re-created or used by other than the author.
I agree, the complexity logo is awful looking. But so is the polar bear one too imo, but it does it's job I guess.
I've never seen complexity team or the polar bear team, but if I'd have to pick one to root just by their logos, I'd go with complexity.
I'd pick it just becouse the looks of it does not bring thoughts about money hungry sponsor owned team like the polar bear one does.
Just remember that not all logos are designed for competetive playing teams, and there are also cultural differences too that might affect on how "effective" the logo is.
I really think that that a logo can be beatiful and complex too, and effective for it's purpose in the same time.
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Can I just comment on the irony of the "Team" in Team Liquid's logo being near-invisible on their own site?
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On January 09 2015 04:31 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 18:21 Torte de Lini wrote:How do I upload a document? I can upload the full brand guide of what Clauf was if you guys want an example. It's in Korean though, so it might be a bit difficult to understand.
I agree with Mr. Bitter that I thought this was actual brand management (Team Liquid is a brand). Though I think I'm a bit more skeptical in just how recognized and synonymous TL is with eSports as a whole. Thankfully, that's improving more and more. fuck you
cloud + roof . there's nothing right about that. lol
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On January 09 2015 10:02 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Can I just comment on the irony of the "Team" in Team Liquid's logo being near-invisible on their own site?
What?
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On January 09 2015 16:39 GGzerG wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 10:02 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Can I just comment on the irony of the "Team" in Team Liquid's logo being near-invisible on their own site? What?
Yeah I don't get it :D
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On January 09 2015 04:31 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 18:21 Torte de Lini wrote:How do I upload a document? I can upload the full brand guide of what Clauf was if you guys want an example. It's in Korean though, so it might be a bit difficult to understand.
I agree with Mr. Bitter that I thought this was actual brand management (Team Liquid is a brand). Though I think I'm a bit more skeptical in just how recognized and synonymous TL is with eSports as a whole. Thankfully, that's improving more and more. fuck you
Pretty much the summation of your personality and wit in one.
I think for brand logos, it's important to have some publicly available art assets either in a downloadable press kit or something. It's always an annoyance to look for a team's logo and then have to find it without a background or poor resolution, size, etc.
On January 09 2015 10:45 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 04:31 Waxangel wrote:On January 08 2015 18:21 Torte de Lini wrote:How do I upload a document? I can upload the full brand guide of what Clauf was if you guys want an example. It's in Korean though, so it might be a bit difficult to understand.
I agree with Mr. Bitter that I thought this was actual brand management (Team Liquid is a brand). Though I think I'm a bit more skeptical in just how recognized and synonymous TL is with eSports as a whole. Thankfully, that's improving more and more. fuck you cloud + roof . there's nothing right about that. lol
I'm more specifying the logo, not the company. As a logo, I think it is simple and plays into a lot of wolfwood is mentioning.
No comment on the name evidently.
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On January 09 2015 18:21 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 16:39 GGzerG wrote:On January 09 2015 10:02 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Can I just comment on the irony of the "Team" in Team Liquid's logo being near-invisible on their own site? What? Yeah I don't get it :D
The TL logo used as an example in the OP. Light blue letters against a light blue background.
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Yeah, wo1fwood! This was a great article. I agree on all pointers, even on the NSH and Prime logo thing, and thank you for doing this! :D
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On January 09 2015 20:49 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 18:21 ZenithM wrote:On January 09 2015 16:39 GGzerG wrote:On January 09 2015 10:02 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Can I just comment on the irony of the "Team" in Team Liquid's logo being near-invisible on their own site? What? Yeah I don't get it :D The TL logo used as an example in the OP. Light blue letters against a light blue background.
I've always found this issue to be kind of amusing as part of the problem with that is that the "team" part of the logo below also would nearly unintelligible on white backgrounds, which would be problematic for print.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UA3laQ4.png)
not official colors
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It needs black bordering.
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Mexico2170 Posts
Pretty cool. A lot of organizations and teams are really bad at these stuff, although to be honest, i don't think that the TL logo is a big problem. Maybe on the management part its bad, however even if on the team shirts and on this page they use blue on a blue background, is totally readeably because its a totally different kind of blue. But not only the team managment and logos in general are bad, also some of their names are the worst thing ever, trough the past few days i started to analize a lot of people and team nicknames and how they manage their brand and have found that pretty much all are terrible lol, esport teams and personalities have a long way to go.
But, it blows my mind how amazingly good the nickname Day[9] is, that guys a genius.
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For bad nicknames one needs to look no further than "the boys in blue".... Now is that EG, or Liquid... I can track that idiom back to about 2011 for both organizations.
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United States1225 Posts
Akin to Torte's comment... I think I have a brand book for Uconn Athletics lying around the house if anyone wants me to scan some pages in. It would be the old logo, not the fraudulent one they have now.
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i truly didn't know that making a logo was such a hard task with a lot of problems to deal with
thanks for this blog
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Sweden5554 Posts
On January 08 2015 02:28 wo1fwood wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2015 11:44 jubil wrote:For me nothing beats the geometric simplicity of the Prime logo. It's elegant enough that you can easily recognize it when it's small, and when it's larger there's still some detail (you can trace the letters out). I also liked New Star HoSeo's logo for similar reasons: elegant, clean, but still distinctive. + Show Spoiler +I do feel that eSports in general has been getting less cringy-worthy bad logos as it gets more professional over time. I wasn't so much a fan of NSHoseo because it's not super versatile, but their general idea of embedding the NSH into the icon is kind of interesting. I think where they go wrong is in the typeface, and maybe the visual weight of the monogram, but it's stil linteresting. Prime however I think has a great logo. Their monogram is really well done. Their typeface is a bit bland though.
Look at the delicious kerning of the wordmark part of the Prime logo.... mmmm deliciously horribad.
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Oh man i have had a blast reading across the OP, when i was starting on mapmaking i saw instantly the utility of having a tag/team/brand so your maps could be searched for easily, and that way i started with KTV thanks to a friend that pushed me on that direction since I didn't knew what to use as a tag, i was on my own i didn't had a real mapmaking team, it was just me, and i was horribly afraid of being looked down upon.
I looked up to ESV the biggest and shinier team for inspiration and i stole a thing or two, at the end of like a week or so i found the first logo that didn't made me puke instantly and from it built something i was comfortable with, I'm to this day not fully happy with it, but i had little to no experience on photoshop and even less with logos when i made it, but i settled up for it because it wasn't bad, it was acceptable.
Now that i'm much more experienced with the editor i can do things like making custom decals or custom billboards where i can add my little logo on, and i have found a huge array of the issues it has by experience, shrinking it, expanding it, how it behaves when using different colors and a bunch of other things, but what i'm happy with is that it is quite recognizable, the KTV can be seen across the strongest fog on the editor, which is amazing.
Lately i have been messing around with different logos, just learning about logos and experimenting a bit and seeing how can i improve it, some of my experiments are completely from scratch, others heavy modifications, if i settle for something it must be something that works anywhere and in any size, because there is not much space where i can add branding to the maps, and where i can it must be discrete.
+ Show Spoiler [Example 1] +
+ Show Spoiler [Example 2] +
+ Show Spoiler [Example 3] +
So if anyone has some things i could read (Documents, tutorials, books, wherever) to learn more about logo designs, it would make me every happy so i can make a more professional and sleek looking logo, and why not learn just for the sake of learning.
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Sweden5554 Posts
What does KTV stand for?
one thing is the more generic your name is (KTV is very generic since it's an acronym) you want to make the logo more unique. since it's a three letter acronym I'd suggest making a unique Monogram.
To make a monogram try lots of different fonts and styles of writing the letters to see if you can make some kind of cool symbol of it.
Looking at the letters in general in upper-case KTV have a lot of space around the glyphs also a lot of 45 and 90 degree angles so you could possibly make something interesting with lines like that and they can all tie together.
In lower case ktv is a bit tighter and the cross on the t could be a continuous line from the K to the V.
EDIT: I'm terrible at logo design, but this is a quick draft of kind of what I meant with tying the glyphs together and using their angular shapes.
EDIT 2: googling is a great resource for finding articles about how to design a logo. You can also try to image search on google for like like Map icon or something similar to get ideas for what sort of shapes goes well with ideas for the logo you have if you want to include an icon in any way, the pin is getting pretty big to represent map/location, but maybe going with something again that is fairly angular like the letters of your logo might work well. Like this sort of shape:
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On January 13 2015 06:55 peanuts wrote:
Akin to Torte's comment... I think I have a brand book for Uconn Athletics lying around the house if anyone wants me to scan some pages in. It would be the old logo, not the fraudulent one they have now.
Please scan it! I would like to see (:
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On January 13 2015 10:48 Makro wrote:
i truly didn't know that making a logo was such a hard task with a lot of problems to deal with
thanks for this blog
logo design is deceptively difficult. At first you think "oh yea I can do that" and embark on a task that you eventually realize is far more difficult than you initially realized.
Torte, a quick google search, and you can land here: http://brand.uconn.edu/ A pdf of their style guide is also there.
Edit: oh, and from a cursory look, their style guide is pretty darned good.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
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United States1225 Posts
On the surface: Yo, dope as fuck.
Nitpicking: Not a huge fan of the font, the boundaries are a bit odd, the slight slant is gonna make it a bit weird on stationary. The colors are a bit bright, but hey, this is the same group that made that garish orange (jk, I actually love the VP Prime color scheme).
Pros: Looks like it'll be pretty versatile. Can definitely be used on apparel very easily. Looks like it will scale well.
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Sweden5554 Posts
Not a fan of the font either, uppercase LA gives a lot of kerning headaches.
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On January 13 2015 15:54 salle wrote:+ Show Spoiler [things] +What does KTV stand for? one thing is the more generic your name is (KTV is very generic since it's an acronym) you want to make the logo more unique. since it's a three letter acronym I'd suggest making a unique Monogram. To make a monogram try lots of different fonts and styles of writing the letters to see if you can make some kind of cool symbol of it. Looking at the letters in general in upper-case KTV have a lot of space around the glyphs also a lot of 45 and 90 degree angles so you could possibly make something interesting with lines like that and they can all tie together. In lower case ktv is a bit tighter and the cross on the t could be a continuous line from the K to the V. EDIT: I'm terrible at logo design, but this is a quick draft of kind of what I meant with tying the glyphs together and using their angular shapes. EDIT 2: googling is a great resource for finding articles about how to design a logo. You can also try to image search on google for like like Map icon or something similar to get ideas for what sort of shapes goes well with ideas for the logo you have if you want to include an icon in any way, the pin is getting pretty big to represent map/location, but maybe going with something again that is fairly angular like the letters of your logo might work well. Like this sort of shape:
KTV stands for Kantuva which is my real nick, as i said at the time it was just me and i wasn't sure about what the hell would i do with the tag/team until a friend came up with the suggestion of KTV, which sounded good enough to me so i rolled with it.
A monogram would be quite interesting, to do i haven't messed around with them as much, so i'll need to see what i can do, me asking about tutorials and such is more to see if anyone has some interesting webpages or articles they like that i haven't found about already. But yeah thanks for the help, I'll see what interesting shapes i come up with trying to make the monograms work, what worries me is that they may hard to use/read as decals, but other than that it sounds pretty interesting.
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using a narwhal is kind of interesting, but its tusk seems to present some balance issues (or moreso just the narwhal's placement). I would also agree with salle that the kerning of the font creates a pretty uneven 'greyness' that's somewhat distracting.
for those interested, this is cute: http://type.method.ac/
As for the rest? There's definitely some re-use of some of the materials from the original VP logo which helps to identify the brand. One other thing that seems somewhat odd in the logo is the use of the backplate-like shape which kind of looks like the Chrysler wings a little. It seems to be in an odd position overall (relativity to other objects) as its similar colors blur it into the nameplate, but it also partially masquerades as a portion of the icon, so i'm a little confused about its purpose and it seems to confuse some of the other elements a bit.
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I felt the Polaris was pretty sweet, good colour choices.
Is it me or the letter spacing is a bit off.
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Sweden5554 Posts
Kerning = letter spacing.
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On January 15 2015 02:19 salle wrote:
Kerning = letter spacing.
I'll disagree with this as those two terms are often confused with one another. Kerning specifically relates to the spacing between letterforms where very specific letterforms are targeted to ensure a uniform greyness in the text (the font feels proportional, or has an even rhythm to it). Tracking, also known as letterspacing, adjusts the spacing of groups of letterforms uniformly.
You can think of it this way, tracking sets the general spacing of letterforms within a word, while kerning offsets those defaults to create a more even looking font (often referred to as its greyness).
http://www.thinkingwithtype.com/contents/text/
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Still learning something regardless (:
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All this talk of kerning and not one single keming joke
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Sweden5554 Posts
I agree, wolf! I was lazy and in three words + 1 symbol there were some inaccuracies if interpreted as letter spacing = keening, which I would agree is wrong which some might interpret my message as. Since only in logic is the use of equal signs directional, if I had been less lazy with my reply I could have avoided this pitfall. ("Kerning is one kind of letter spacing" would've required nominally more effort.)
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Word. Polaris logo isn't perfect, but it's very very good. Same style as the VirtusPro bear, but unique enough to actually be quite distinct. They have a good designer, much better than whoever EG's off-brands keep using.
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Sweden5554 Posts
Just saw team ascension's most recent logo and I must say it's really pretty but I suspect it'll be pretty bad at lower resolutions. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HHKUllR.png)
But I still think it's really pretty. Feels more like a luxery car logo or maybe fancy ice cream than an esport team though but still... it is really pretty.
(We're using their old logo still on liquipedia for the small resolution)
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Isn't it dangerous to make your original logo based on a black background or am I just overthinking things?
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Sweden5554 Posts
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Ah, thanks (:
My only fear is perhaps the lettering is too thin. Might look a bit weak in smaller resolutions, no?
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Sweden5554 Posts
Yeah this logo doesn't work well in low res. but it's still pretty  (so you could say it's slightly bad for esports maybe)
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I wonder if they couldn't tweak the proportions of the wings and the outlines in general to be a little more flexible. As it is it kind of suffers the same problem with complexity's logo where the swooshes look ok, but at low resolutions it would break down quite a bit. It also immediately reminds me of feenix's logo: http://www.feenixcollection.com/
As for the font, I understand their intent but its' poorly kerned, especially the ascension part. It would make me wonder if "team" is even presentationally necessary. I get that a lot of teams feel that's necessary to say they're a team, but it's really not. Cloud9, NaVi, EG, VP, CJ Entus, all of them are teams and we know them as teams yet none of them ever say "team cloud 9" cause that's akward. I have heard 'team evil geniuses' from casters, but that also strikes me a overly explicit and akward.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Looks like a ski resort. It feels like the idea was good, but the execution was lacking. I agree with wo1f that the "Team" ought to be axed. I think Torte is right about the text being too thin; I think the whole logo might be better off thicker. That Feenix logo is basically the same thing, but so much... I dunno, stronger? Bolder?
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Talking about press kits, I'm looking for Team Liquid's press kit - anyone has a link? Go rummage around for it!
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Sweden5554 Posts
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On January 23 2015 12:28 tree.hugger wrote:
Looks like a ski resort. It feels like the idea was good, but the execution was lacking. I agree with wo1f that the "Team" ought to be axed. I think Torte is right about the text being too thin; I think the whole logo might be better off thicker. That Feenix logo is basically the same thing, but so much... I dunno, stronger? Bolder?
That feenix logo is awesome.
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yes, lack of press kits in esports is saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ENAhGpW.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/c/c2/Col_wiki.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/17uQIAf.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/images/thumb/6/68/Dk_logo.png/300px-Dk_logo.png){kind=logo}
![[image loading]](/staff/wo1fwood/blog/logo/dk16a.png){kind=logo}
![[image loading]](/staff/wo1fwood/blog/logo/dk16b.png){kind=logo}
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/wo1fwood/blog/logo/kespa.png){kind=logo}
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MOwL8zQ.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/5/5d/Primelogo.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/2/2c/HoSeologo.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OTJAvw5.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yLjZE4j.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JtEwvs0.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LB2R4WJ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HgHgnpY.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OVm7f7s.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fAAwNuX.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ugR5Uop.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Q6GUI6f.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.endlessicons.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/folded-map-icon-614x460.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10891496_662922813818987_938308430989918474_n.jpg?oh=330f1bad9fd7c951d5ef1b437ce26862&oe=55264FB4)
![[image loading]](http://tv.captureclinic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/0227.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/viylWw9.jpg)
