EPTPyrion Flax Attacks : FOREIGNERS - Page 10
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
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Hrwa
Croatia147 Posts
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vitruvia
Canada235 Posts
On October 23 2013 02:57 Lobotomist wrote: Wow, apparently disliking preventable communication barriers makes me a racist and a "shitlord". Hopefully this kind of sensationalist garbage doesn't continue to get featured, it worsens TL as a whole. agreed, however the teamliquid dota community might want to expand their population base by trying to acquire fans and supporters of certain dota personalities through cross featuring. You can't really blame them for this. I don't mind their goal to "congregate" the fanbase like they did with Starcraft/SC2, but a better choice can definitely be made for spotlight in the future. | ||
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Xiron
Germany1233 Posts
On October 23 2013 03:21 Hrwa wrote: Can't believe this is featured. Terrible style and terrible arguments. Yeah, it's really godawful. The first thing that comes to mind is "Europeans could tell me to stick to my own server!" Well, that's fucking bullshit. The general language in any game in Europe is english. If you can't speak english, stick to your own fucking server. If you speak english, doesn't matter where you're from. | ||
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farvacola
United States18843 Posts
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Littlesheep
Canada217 Posts
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bayaka
Canada102 Posts
I bet the other servers get all of our assholes who don't care about other people and cue on all servers (or at least they would if NA made up a larger percentage of the people who play dota.) I understand that this group of people doesn't represent an entire country, but that doesn't change the fact that they exist. It's completely possible that the vast majority of russians or brazilians who queue onto US East/West ARE in fact horrible obnoxious people. I think it's amazingly stupid to be xenophobic, but it's also really stupid to claim that anybody that doesn't like dealing with being the odd man out of a Russian pre-made that feeds the entire game, steals your role and calls you a faggot for 45 minutes straight is a close minded lesser person. The anti-russian circle jerk can be insane sometimes, but this is article is just the other extreme. This article is basically just saying "Oh jeez, look how tolerant I am, aren't I the best? You guys should strive to be more like me." It doesn't really contribute anything of meaning and it doesn't talk about the actual issue. | ||
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PerryHooter
Sweden268 Posts
Edit: Oh, there's so much ignorance in this thread that I should clarify. I'm not ironic, I think all the points are valid and the article overall is very witty (although being a math student, the statistics part might be a little simplified but I basically agree). English might be the "global" language in the world today yes, but there's still way more people who don't speak english than there are people who do. Just because you yourself has bothered learning english as a second language, all you fellow swedes out there for example, doesn't justify you feeling intellectually superior to french or russian people who don't speak english. It's in no way a requirement in the modern world today to speak english. It's useful, sure, but in no way necessary. Even if there's a problem with people selecting english as their language or whatever to get shorter queing times that's not an excuse for xenophobia and borderline racism. Complain to valve instead for having a dysfunctional match making system. | ||
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CaptainPlatypus
United States852 Posts
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On October 23 2013 08:38 PerryHooter wrote: This is brilliant. Edit: Oh, there's so much ignorance in this thread that I should clarify. I'm not ironic, I think all the points are valid and the article overall is very witty (although being a math student, the statistics part might be a little simplified but I basically agree). English might be the "global" language in the world today yes, but there's still way more people who don't speak english than there are people who do. Just because you yourself has bothered learning english as a second language, all you fellow swedes out there for example, doesn't justify you feeling intellectually superior to french or russian people who don't speak english. It's in no way a requirement in the modern world today to speak english. It's useful, sure, but in no way necessary. Even if there's a problem with people selecting english as their language or whatever to get shorter queing times that's not an excuse for xenophobia and borderline racism. Complain to valve instead for having a dysfunctional match making system. You're right in that if people are being xenophobic or racist then there are no excuses, but he's not pointing out instances where this occurs, he seems to be generalizing and labelling all people who have problems playing with other nationalities as cloaked xenophobes who follow the so-called "shit lords", which goes over the line. Particularly because as part of that group of problems, he includes disliking players who can't speak the same language. All he states is that the rules of the game are the same so it shouldn't matter, but for a lot of players its important to be able to communicate clearly in the same language about what is going on, and since its a team-game with key timings involved, communication is particularly important for many players (see the numerous responses in this thread as evidence). If you read in this thread there are many examples of players who make no attempt to communicate even in some small part, instead ruining what should be a team effort by having a socially-focused chat in a foreign language like Brazilian interspersed with laughter. This blog doesn't make any attempt to counter that; all it offers is a non-sequitur that Brazilians don't really speak English because they're a big country...which in no way relates to the question of why they queue up to play in English-speaking games, therefore making it difficult to function as a team. Obviously they probably do this to make it easier to join a game. But even if the match making system is dysfunctional, clearly the people who abuse that system are partially to blame and therefore engender some antagonism. You can't ignore that and say its *all* on Valve, and that people have no self-control or something like that. Note that this antagonism is not equivalent to racism or xenophobia; its the OP of this blog who is making this accusation and being as insulting as possible in general. After all this I am genuinely curious as to what you find so brilliant in this blog, particularly as you are a math student so you should have a pretty rigorously trained mind in logical reasoning. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On October 23 2013 08:38 PerryHooter wrote: This is brilliant. Edit: Oh, there's so much ignorance in this thread that I should clarify. I'm not ironic, I think all the points are valid and the article overall is very witty (although being a math student, the statistics part might be a little simplified but I basically agree). English might be the "global" language in the world today yes, but there's still way more people who don't speak english than there are people who do. Just because you yourself has bothered learning english as a second language, all you fellow swedes out there for example, doesn't justify you feeling intellectually superior to french or russian people who don't speak english. It's in no way a requirement in the modern world today to speak english. It's useful, sure, but in no way necessary. Even if there's a problem with people selecting english as their language or whatever to get shorter queing times that's not an excuse for xenophobia and borderline racism. Complain to valve instead for having a dysfunctional match making system. How is it the fault of the matchmaking that people pick languages they don't understand, more so than the assholes picking the wrong languages? I honestly don't understand how you can find this post brilliant. Trying to do something about xenophobia and racism is brilliant, this blog post isn't, especially since it gets its point across badly and offends anyone with legitimate concerns about people not being able to communicate. His post would have been brilliant if he wrote something along the lines of "There is racism brewing in Dota 2 because of the problems involving people who don't speak English queueing with English set as language. What can Valve do to remedy this, and what can we as a community do about this?". Instead, the post is just a general whine about people being annoyed when others ruin their fun, which is not brilliant in any way. | ||
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goldentb
Slovenia15 Posts
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
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woreyour
582 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8230 Posts
On October 23 2013 19:49 woreyour wrote: maybe, just maybe people tick english only because they cannot understand english so they just tick all to make the queing faster - I myself did it before because I remembered before in beta you like have a good 5-10min wait. I ticked all SD, AR, least played etc, even russian and chinese. all I need are people who can understand a ping, wards, back and push. If they are good they can do that. If they have bad item choices well I dont care as long as if they are carry they get the most impt thing, mostly it is just BKB. Wait, you're saying they're ticking english because they can't understand english? Queue times isn't a problem anymore. You're still an asshat for ticking a language you don't understand just so you don't have to wait 2 minutes for a game, which is the average queue time for me nowadays at least. | ||
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BlueSpace
Germany2182 Posts
1) So basically if I don't speak any of the languages given in the preference menu, I shouldn't be allowed to play Dota2 at all? 2) Do we even know that the matchmaking will never match people with different language preferences? So how can you be so sure that all of the non-english speaking players have intentionally choosen a language they don't speak? 3) How can you distinguish between someone not wanting to communicate in english with you and someone not being able to speak english with you? Maybe they are just ignoring you. 4) Which amount of english do you need to speak in order to play Dota? Reading some of the comments I get the impression every pub game starts with a 20 minute planning session on how to set up the lanes followed by intense ingame discussion on tactical details. My pub games can be broken down to: push, defend, take rax, take rosh, stop feed and an appropriate ping. Of course it would be preferable to speak the same language but people should realize that there are also some practical limitations here. And more importantly the article doesn't defend people intentionally not communicating. It just says that people should stop generalizing from a few bad apples to an entire group of people. And then it uses some pseudo-psychology and pseudo-math to explain why people tend to overly hate russians and brazilians. You can also summarize the whole thing to: "Let's all be nicer to each other." | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On October 23 2013 20:49 BlueSpace wrote: I find the entire discussion regarding the matchmaking language preference option rather amusing. 1) So basically if I don't speak any of the languages given in the preference menu, I shouldn't be allowed to play Dota2 at all? 2) Do we even know that the matchmaking will never match people with different language preferences? So how can you be so sure that all of the non-english speaking players have intentionally choosen a language they don't speak? 3) How can you distinguish between someone not wanting to communicate in english with you and someone not being able to speak english with you? Maybe they are just ignoring you. 4) Which amount of english do you need to speak in order to play Dota? Reading some of the comments I get the impression every pub game starts with a 20 minute planning session on how to set up the lanes followed by intense ingame discussion on tactical details. My pub games can be broken down to: push, defend, take rax, take rosh, stop feed and an appropriate ping. Of course it would be preferable to speak the same language but people should realize that there are also some practical limitations here. And more importantly the article doesn't defend people intentionally not communicating. It just says that people should stop generalizing from a few bad apples to an entire group of people. And then it uses some pseudo-psychology and pseudo-math to explain why people tend to overly hate russians and brazilians. You can also summarize the whole thing to: "Let's all be nicer to each other." 1) How often do people run into others who can't speak English? Rarely, which is why Russians and Brazilians are named specifically, which is because they have a ton of players who don't speak English, and they play on servers people who mostly speak English play on. If you're Italian and don't speak English, fine, play with English people and simply don't try to communicate. The problem is when you get 2-3 russians in your team who speak Russian constantly (which is fine in itself) but can't communicate with the rest of the team at all. 2) No one is sure of that in any specific case. No doubt people do it though. 3) The problem is not so much when people don't respond, they might have just muted everyone. The problem is when they write in cyrillic as a response to english simple sentences. That said, people who ignore standard friendly communication are douchebags as well. 4) Pretty much exactly what your pub games can be broken down to is enough. If I write "Don't cross river alone, you're feeding them." I would love it if they at least actually understand what I write, whether or not they act on it. | ||
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ViperPL
Poland1775 Posts
I'm baffled why would anyone put this article as featured. | ||
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Oakenshield
United States347 Posts
Please don't confuse a customer wanting to play a competitive strategic video game with an open and coherent line of communication as being anything remotely tied into racism. Yes this is what some memes on the internet say, yes I know people on Valve's facebook wall simply reduce my argument to "no brazilians and no russians in my life!!!" and make the whole movement look stupid and racist, but I assure you I've met plenty of people who just want coherent Dota. This isn't Counter-Strike and it's hard to have fun or win if someone speaks only a language I don't. The same is true for everyone who gets hammered, match making is horrible but the one defense I will make for it is that no game that I know of can take your blood alcohol level and adjust your match making queue accordingly. | ||
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