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Designing a Game & Hiring Freelancers? - Page 2

Blogs > Chill
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Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
February 06 2013 08:21 GMT
#21
If the game really is fun and you're ambitious enough to hire people to make it nice quality, I honestly think you should consider kickstarter. Some projects there are really small and simple but become huge successes anyway. Like thedeadhaji said above, if you can supply a deck for every backer who gives a decent amount, I'm sure you can drive down your own costs quite a lot while still getting something better done. If 5k isn't enough, go for 10k. 200 backers at 50dollars, which I think is fairly viable, especially since I'm sure not only teamliquid members would pay for it if it actually sounds fun.
G_G
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada178 Posts
February 06 2013 09:43 GMT
#22
A small scale Kickstarter is the way to go with this. Even just an extra few hundred would put you in a much better position.
Pumplekin
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United Kingdom50 Posts
February 06 2013 11:07 GMT
#23
> It's a clone of Magic: The Gathering

Step1: Don't get sued.
Loves Cows
DusTerr
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
2520 Posts
February 06 2013 12:56 GMT
#24
On February 06 2013 20:07 Pumplekin wrote:
> It's a clone of Magic: The Gathering

Step1: Don't get sued.

at least he didn't call it "Liquid MTG" (although I think the name should be further from "magic"... maybe "Liquid Craft").

Also why not StarCraft marines vs aliens themed?
0x64
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Finland4613 Posts
February 06 2013 14:41 GMT
#25
Well, what been clear through this thread, is that you don't have the money to hire someone.
Hiring someone in india/china, is not cheaper, they know the online price for their skills, the world is global, what you save in money, you lose in quality.
Your solution is to croudsource the graphics on teamliquid and get the game out for free.
Put out the required designs, divide them through candidates and in the end divide the 1000$ to the design you select how you see it fair.
You are really asking for a huge amount of work so their will be very few corners to cut.
Dump of assembler code from 0xffffffec to 0x64: End of assembler dump.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 06 2013 15:23 GMT
#26
Oh hey, Calgary. Yay

Kickstarter really does seem like the best idea.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
February 06 2013 15:31 GMT
#27
I don't know anything about painting or hiring, just coming to say that wages in easter europe are pretty low too (Czech republic's low paying job is about 3-3.5 dollars, it's gonna be even less in Poland/Slovakia/Ukraine etc.) so maybe someone cheap could be found there. :3
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
btlVega
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany53 Posts
February 06 2013 15:57 GMT
#28
If you´re looking for cheap design work it might be a good idea to ask around at a art/design school.
My GF just graduated from one and I can tell you people like that are looking for things to put on their portfolios.
Look for someone who specializes in print media.
Bitches know me, I'm Jos 'LiquidRet' de Kroon. I drink, smoke and don't exercize.
aike
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1629 Posts
February 06 2013 16:15 GMT
#29
I'd hate to get into a dispute with a TL member


kekeke that part made me laugh

Anyways, talk to ariwa/toki, she does concept art type stuff (which is great for cards) maybe she can do some work for you or recommend people from her old art school. https://twitter.com/tokimonster http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=ariwa
Wahaha
GogoKodo
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Canada1785 Posts
February 06 2013 16:24 GMT
#30
For everyone saying to use kickstarter I'm not sure how easy it is for a non US non UK person. From here http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/creator questions#WhoIsEligToStarAKickProj
"To be eligible to start a Kickstarter project as a US creator, you need to meet the following requirements:

—You are 18 years of age or older.*
—You are a permanent US resident with a Social Security Number (or EIN).
—You have a US address, US bank account, and US state-issued ID (driver’s license).
—You have a major US credit or debit card.

To start a project as a UK creator, you need to meet these requirements:

—You are 18 years of age or older.*
—You are a permanent UK resident either creating a project in your own name or on behalf of a legal entity with a Companies House Number.
—You have a UK address, UK bank account, and government-issued ID (driver’s license or passport).
—You have a major UK credit or debit card.

*Parents and teachers can launch projects in collaboration with children under 18 only if the adult registers for the Kickstarter and payments accounts and is in charge of running the project itself."

I know I've seen Canadian projects on there but I'm guessing they have US people involved will all the above required stuff. There are other sites that you may be able to use like http://www.indiegogo.com/ don't know the requirements for those.
twitter: @terrancem
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
February 06 2013 16:49 GMT
#31
this could be a fun website game, though the card game stuff has kind of been overdone unless you create something very novel. Though this could be an awesome thing for TL. I just see going about this as a business venture being very risky.
User was warned for too many mimes.
hazdur
Profile Joined July 2012
United States19 Posts
February 06 2013 16:54 GMT
#32
I can't believe no one's mentioned this, but there's a website called deviantart.com, and they sponsor a starcraft team, called Infinity Seven... Many members of the site are students from around the world, looking for work.
If I needed a lot of random custom art at resonable prices, I would poke around on deviantart and find someone whose art I liked, and was accepting comissions. It's perfectly normal on deviantart to hire someone for one piece of art. If it works out well, comission a few more.
Why not search deviantart for starcraft related art? (Ruben de Vela?) Maybe you'll find soneone that's heard of you.

(Also, buy a poster and support eports.)
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 06 2013 16:54 GMT
#33
On February 07 2013 01:49 docvoc wrote:
this could be a fun website game, though the card game stuff has kind of been overdone unless you create something very novel. Though this could be an awesome thing for TL. I just see going about this as a business venture being very risky.


The point of it is as a social drinking game, not as a collectible card game (necessarily). Its hard to have social drinking game sessions over the internet
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Trozz
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada3456 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-06 16:58:59
February 06 2013 16:58 GMT
#34
Drinking is novel!
I would print and play this game.
What's there not to love?

edit: idea,
For the stoner variant,
replace swigs with tokes.
A build is not a guess, an estimation or a hunch, a feeling, or a foolish intuition. A build is a dependable, unwavering, unarguably accurate, portrayer of your ambition.
UltimateHurl
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland591 Posts
February 06 2013 17:02 GMT
#35
On February 06 2013 12:28 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Just a few comments about your plans:

1) The "in" thing for online art commissions is flat fee per work, obviously scaling with the quality that you're requesting. I'm not sure if you have an attachment to hourly pay (not sure why you would, but just saying), but it's something worth considering. It also allows you to decide against commissioning more art from that individual, and to protect yourself from inflated work hours.

2) Your 1 hour/image seems low. Obviously it will depend on the artist and the detail that you want, but you also must consider that "small art" like that on trading cards are usually larger works that are scaled down. It may seem inefficient, but it's much easier to create details on a larger canvas...makes the smaller image look nicer as well.

3) Is it a necessity to have one consistent artist doing all of the art? Take MTG, for example, that has dozens of artists doing a single set.

4) An artist's portfolio is not indicative of what you will actually get in the end. Not because they lied or anything, but because what you're paying them and the time they're spending may be vastly different than that gorgeous poster they display on their website.

My personal recommendations (take them or leave them), if you decide to go forward with this:

1) Hire an individual to do your card template. Someone who can making a nice picture and someone who can make a working TCG format are not necessarily the same people, and having a functional card design that looks good will probably be important to you.

2) Get multiple artists. Gives your cards more diversity, gives you a little more flexibility mid-project, and it will let you get your 96 pieces of art much faster.

3) Make sure you payment schedules/systems, deadlines, etc. are discussed beforehand. Not saying that you should be a hardass and run a tight ship, but you absolutely want to have some legitimate points in case you get into an argument. Word of warning, some online artists have been known to take money and run.


As an artist I'd agree with most of what is said here, also when you are hiring artists look for the art at A4 or some similar size (i.e. big) because it's more versatile and when shrunk will look better either way, 1 hour per image seems like a very low estimate. Good luck with it though!
KingDime
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada750 Posts
February 06 2013 17:15 GMT
#36
Looks like an awesome concept and a great addition to the barcrafts (If you actually show up!) considering the after hours MTG tournaments. It sounds like a perfect fit.
Doom Guy
Coagulation
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States9633 Posts
February 06 2013 17:24 GMT
#37
I sent you a PM chill
Zocat
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2229 Posts
February 06 2013 17:55 GMT
#38
Pay per illustration (or bulk) not per hour.
Also check with your printing company/shop what format they require (especially what dpi)

On February 07 2013 02:02 UltimateHurl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2013 12:28 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Just a few comments about your plans:

1) The "in" thing for online art commissions is flat fee per work, obviously scaling with the quality that you're requesting. I'm not sure if you have an attachment to hourly pay (not sure why you would, but just saying), but it's something worth considering. It also allows you to decide against commissioning more art from that individual, and to protect yourself from inflated work hours.

2) Your 1 hour/image seems low. Obviously it will depend on the artist and the detail that you want, but you also must consider that "small art" like that on trading cards are usually larger works that are scaled down. It may seem inefficient, but it's much easier to create details on a larger canvas...makes the smaller image look nicer as well.

3) Is it a necessity to have one consistent artist doing all of the art? Take MTG, for example, that has dozens of artists doing a single set.

4) An artist's portfolio is not indicative of what you will actually get in the end. Not because they lied or anything, but because what you're paying them and the time they're spending may be vastly different than that gorgeous poster they display on their website.

My personal recommendations (take them or leave them), if you decide to go forward with this:

1) Hire an individual to do your card template. Someone who can making a nice picture and someone who can make a working TCG format are not necessarily the same people, and having a functional card design that looks good will probably be important to you.

2) Get multiple artists. Gives your cards more diversity, gives you a little more flexibility mid-project, and it will let you get your 96 pieces of art much faster.

3) Make sure you payment schedules/systems, deadlines, etc. are discussed beforehand. Not saying that you should be a hardass and run a tight ship, but you absolutely want to have some legitimate points in case you get into an argument. Word of warning, some online artists have been known to take money and run.


As an artist I'd agree with most of what is said here, also when you are hiring artists look for the art at A4 or some similar size (i.e. big) because it's more versatile and when shrunk will look better either way, 1 hour per image seems like a very low estimate. Good luck with it though!


You cant say that's a low estimate. We have no idea what his style/demands are.
It could very well be, that he's completely fine with Munchkin or even Order of the Stick quality.
Just because he mentions the game(rules) is similar to MTG doesnt mean he wants to have the cards the same quality.

For those who dont know:
+ Show Spoiler [Munchkin] +

[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler [Order of the Stick] +

[image loading]
Noobity
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States871 Posts
February 06 2013 17:59 GMT
#39
So there's a lot here to read, and I simply don't have the time at the moment, but here's some points that come to mind to me immediately:

You can't really give a reasonable estimate for how long it would take to do the artistic work without being able to do the artistic work yourself. That isn't meant to be a dig, but unless you work specifically with artists, or are an artist yourself, it's extremely hard to determine length of time necessary to be spent on an artistic work.

IMO the best course of action would be to send off an art test for the people who want to do the work, including all the information you need on the piece you need them to complete, and use that to determine who you would want to use for the task. This would give you information on their artistic range, interpretations, and professionalism (as any unprofessional or overly professional individual would simply not take the time. Unprofessional individuals not believing they should have to complete an art test, overqualified individuals without the time to).

By setting an "$x per image" rate of pay, you don't need to worry about the amount of time it would take them to complete the task, and don't have to worry about whether or not your pay is fair, because it's simply what you're paying and they can decide if it's something they're willing to work for. This also allows you to use different artists if one decides they didn't feel they could complete a certain image, negating your need to see artistic range. Take Magic: The Gathering for example, they use tons of different artists for their cards, and for the most part the cards all have different looks, styles, themes, etc. to them, but it doesn't take away from the game itself.

International users may be difficult to work with, but they should have a basic grasp of the core concepts of art and design. IMO your best bet is to explain to an english speaking designer what you need done, and have them give you examples of how to explain that in design terms. IE "I want this drink to look blue" could be "use colder colors and tones to portray a frosty beverage". "Cold colors" and "tones" aren't necessarily something the average dude would know, but gets your point across well if you're talking to a designer.

Hope some of this helped, sorry if it's all been said before. Good luck in the game creation though! Sounds like fun, let us know how it turns out!
My name is Mike, and statistically, yours is not.
Wohmfg
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1292 Posts
February 06 2013 18:50 GMT
#40
Just one small thing about getting your cards printed!

Get them as plastic cards! Not plastic coated or normal playing card. Plastic cards last sooo much longer than any other type of card.
BW4Life!
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