The concept of nice guys finishing last is a bit misrepresented. The girls that are being missed out on by the nice guys, and that cause the general whining are typically the more visually attractive ones, and depending on your own traits and personality, are usually not a girl you’d fancy in a long-term relationship for a variety of reasons; whether that’s because they wear slutty clothes to clubs, or have an IQ of 90, or are attention-whores, or <insert whatever you think is negative here>, etc…, it still doesn’t change that initial desire, and the disappointment that accompanies not being able to at least have that option.
As humans, we’ve evolved, but not far enough that women are solely intellectual in their pursuit of men. The majority of women are still at the mercy of basic biological imperatives and is another crux of why nice guys typically finish last. Nice guys are in general cases, far too rational and analytical to allow their instincts to lead them into a potential relationship. They psyche themselves out, whether by thinking they can’t get a woman, or by simply trying too hard.
Now at their core, what are nice guys? They are kind, respectful, and fatally agreeable individuals that get in their own way. That agreeable trait shared by most nice guys passes the buck of power to the woman in almost every instance. It’s not that women enjoy a challenge, but they enjoy a man that can take charge and not be led down whatever path she chooses. The men, in an effort to be liked, or to share time with the woman, become too afraid to desire and champion their own interests, and thus become boring. Devoid of the physical aspect, those women’s imperatives that judge a man’s actions play not only into sexual desire, but to any potential evaluation of a man of the household and father figure. And nice guys lose out on all fronts.
The other aspect that hinders a nice guy, is that they’re so fantastic and great, and we’ll say, predictable, that as a woman you have to wonder what’s on the other side of that. In essence, it can only go down, or turn negative at certain instances or completely. A reason that the “bad” guy is so intriguing for women, is that along with an unpredictable nature (which some may or may not find “sexy”), the odds of a “bad” guy getting even worse in his treatment of women is slimmer in their eyes; that buried under all that disrespectful exterior, there’s a chance to find redeeming qualities that make it worth it and change him for the better (change is an illusion, will be written about in the future). Succinctly, a nice guy can only worsen, while a bad guy can only improve.
Now, what does that leave us with? We as people try too hard to fit a square peg into a round hole. The psychology behind why we try to force situations is going to be tailored to each individual, but it doesn’t change the fact that it happens. The main thing is that whether you’re a nice guy, bad guy, or a girl looking for something more, you just have to be yourself. If you can be yourself, and there is someone that enjoys you, accepts you, and desires you in all instances, that’s what a lot of us are truly looking for.
lol, "nice guys" who are rich/sexy/hot have no trouble getting women. It's the "nice guys" who are poor/fat/ugly that have trouble getting women.
But instead of admitting they are poor/fat/ugly, they try to blame it on women by accusing them of being "irrational" (wake up guys, they actually trying not to hurt your feelings).
edit:
from an investment prospective, not going for someone simply because they are nice Is Rational (this doesn't address the rationality of going for bad boys of course).
If a person has money, or is physically sexy, the benefits are more tangible and it is easier to manage the risk, eg you will be able to see if someone's bank account is going down or they are losing their muscles, so you can leave them before they lose everything.
Where as if you invest in someone's personality, that is a total black box. A person can be nice now, but what if their attitude suddenly changes, or maybe they are faking their personality? there is no indicator that allows a woman to easily see this coming, and so going for a "nice personality" is actually more risky and thus less rational.
On November 04 2012 09:28 Kalingingsong wrote: lol, "nice guys" who are rich/sexy/hot have no trouble getting women. It's the "nice guys" who are poor/fat/ugly that have trouble getting women.
But instead of admitting they are poor/fat/ugly, they try to blame it on women by accusing them of being "irrational" (wake up guys, they actually trying not to hurt your feelings).
edit:
from an investment prospective, not going for someone simply because they are nice Is Rational (this doesn't address the rationality of going for bad boys of course).
If a person has money, or is physically sexy, the benefits are more tangible and it is easier to manage the risk, eg you will be able to see if someone's bank account is going down or they are losing their muscles, so you can leave them before they lose everything.
Where as if you invest in someone's personality, that is a total black box. A person can be nice now, but what if their attitude suddenly changes, or maybe they are faking their personality? there is no indicator that allows a woman to easily see this coming, and so going for a "nice personality" is actually more risky and thus less rational.
I disagree.
Emotions are actually completely irrational...They color events which are tangible and change them according to personal perspective.
Thus the concept that LOVE, what we call love at least, is completely irrational because it is based off of emotions which are...irrational!
Emotions are not objective. But neither is love, so trying to tie them together (objectivity and an irrational concept) is silly. If you want to talk about looking at people as an OBJECTIVE then you would be talking about "game" .
If a person has money, or is physically sexy, the benefits are more tangible and it is easier to manage the risk, eg you will be able to see if someone's bank account is going down or they are losing their muscles, so you can leave them before they lose everything.
Is not love, is just viewing a person's assets as an objective. The person is an objective - thus a form of "game." (I use this term to put it into perspective). Love as an irrationality would disregard this.
I'm just of the opinion that the two don't mix . But I'm also the sort that takes an objective perspective instead of an emotional one.
ya I agree, i guess it depends on which one you are aiming for:
1) do you want women to love you? 2) or do you want women to want you? (ie as a conscious choice)
so interestingly you end up with 4 scenarios:
1) you love women, and you want women to love you (eg hopeless romantic) 2) you love women, but you only want them to want you (eg lonely rich guy hires prostitute) 3) you only want women, but you want them to love you (eg con-artist or pickup artist?) 4) you only want women, and you only want them to want you (common in 3rd world countries where people get together for economics)
edit:
"want" might not be the best word, I don't mean lust (not addressed here), maybe "choose" is a better word.
A 'nice guy' lacks the balls to be anything but nice.
I know plenty of nice guys that are shy and silly - who text things like, "I really liked meeting you yesterday. We should blah blah blah."
I also know plenty of guys that are nice who know how to use their balls effectively.
Essentially the difference between a 'nice guy' and a 'guy who is a nice' is the same difference between being cocky and being confident. Miles~apart.
You can be 'nice' without being a 'nice guy.' 'Nice guy' simply means guy without penis. 'Nice guy' does not necessarily mean the guy's nice. It just means, he has no penis.
It's not rocket science lol.
Guys want girls to be girly. Girls want guys to be manly.
Hence - nice guys get no pussy because they have nothing to get it with.
Girls for whatever reason are attracted to those guys who will go through a girl a month instead of a guy who will always be there for them and will never treat her like shit. Saw way too much of it already lol, nice guy talks to a girl, likes her, they become great friends and some more, "cool" guy walks into girl's life, and even though he completely ignores her, she's immediately attracted and friend-zones the other guy to go chase cool guy. Cool guy hooks up with girl to have sex, and after it gets stale he dumps her in search of another girl.
"Nice guys" is actually bad-wording when trying to describe that kind of guy: + Show Spoiler +
The problem is not that he is a nice person, polite and stuff. The problem is that he is... weak or soft. He let the girl walk over him and do what she wants. He doesn't express his own needs/wants. He has no passions and will quickly make a 180 just to please someone. That's being weak and having no personality. Girls want to have some fun.
On the opposite side it's very wrong to say girls want to date bad people. Will she date an asshole ? probably. But it's not what she wants. The thing is, said asshole at least has a personality and that's somewhat attractive. She doesn't know at first glance its a bad person, she just hopes he will be different or that she can change it. Also it's important to remember, these people will also just have an easier time asking a girl out. The more you hit, the better your chances. Nice guys that don't try or wait 3years to do it will fail. <<Can't think of a good example>>
So... what to do ? Just be in the middle. Be a good person but with a strong personality. Have passions, have beliefs, do not apologize for wanting to see a different movie and don't crawl. OH and most important... don't be afraid to actually ask the girl out !! Be more like these guys (but don't steal money !): + Show Spoiler +
Oh and geek nice guys... remember, getting a degree is probably 20x harder than getting a girlfriend. Getting a perfect girlfriend however is pretty hard but you won't find THE ONE if you don't try out some first.
From my experience those guys who are quite attractive to girls are mostly cool friendly dudes, the type of guys you would like to have a beer with. I suspect everyone thinks that guys who are good with girls are jerks because they dump the girls easily, but that is the result of them being good with girls and not the cause of it, am I right?
On November 04 2012 12:56 targ wrote: From my experience those guys who are quite attractive to girls are mostly cool friendly dudes, the type of guys you would like to have a beer with. I suspect everyone thinks that guys who are good with girls are jerks because they dump the girls easily, but that is the result of them being good with girls and not the cause of it, am I right?
I think so. If they are good with girls they don't really have to put a lot of effort into making it work with a particular girl because they can easily find another who might be a better match for them.
Guys with no spine finishes last. Don't mistake indecision and being a general pansy for niceness. These "nice" guys aren't nice. If they were really nice, they wouldn't expect anything after doing something nice, instead they go running back to the internet after getting shot down by girls.
I have a slight urge to respond negatively accusing you/nice guys of no confidence etc... but instead I'll just say I agree with most of what you said there, especially the ending
On November 04 2012 11:47 Whatson wrote: Girls for whatever reason are attracted to those guys who will go through a girl a month instead of a guy who will always be there for them and will never treat her like shit.
On November 04 2012 09:28 Kalingingsong wrote: lol, "nice guys" who are rich/sexy/hot have no trouble getting women. It's the "nice guys" who are poor/fat/ugly that have trouble getting women.
But instead of admitting they are poor/fat/ugly, they try to blame it on women by accusing them of being "irrational" (wake up guys, they actually trying not to hurt your feelings).
edit:
from an investment prospective, not going for someone simply because they are nice Is Rational (this doesn't address the rationality of going for bad boys of course).
If a person has money, or is physically sexy, the benefits are more tangible and it is easier to manage the risk, eg you will be able to see if someone's bank account is going down or they are losing their muscles, so you can leave them before they lose everything.
Where as if you invest in someone's personality, that is a total black box. A person can be nice now, but what if their attitude suddenly changes, or maybe they are faking their personality? there is no indicator that allows a woman to easily see this coming, and so going for a "nice personality" is actually more risky and thus less rational.
Ah yes, that's why we only see rich, beautiful people getting together and having children, right?
Heck you can be a total dick and some girls won't give a crap (probably enjoy it in some wierd way). It's a lot more fun too rather than being concerned with being nice. Feels like most people just want attention, even it its bad. Anything up to wife beating is probably not going to hurt your chances.
You are off on so many levels it's not even funny. It starts with "Women who wear slutty clothes in clubs aren't women suitable for a long-term relationship" and ends with "The main thing is that whether you’re a nice guy, bad guy, or a girl looking for something more, you just have to be yourself."
The typical "Nice guy" doesn't finish last because he's nice, he finishes last because he isn't sexual. If you see a women you like in a completely non-sexual way (hint: Madonna-whore-complex) it is almost impossible to build a sexual relationship. Without a sexual relationship you end with the guy having a huge random (most often "creepy" crush on the girl) and her not being sexually attracted. Instead, she rather grabs a guy who isn't exactly nice or great for a relationship but at least in tune with his own sexuality (usually referred to as "the bad guy").
Being "nice", "sexual" and "confident" aren't mutally exclusive.
"Just have to be yourself" is among the most horrible advice you can give someone having trouble with women. Why? Because most people have no idea who they really are and have their head filled with social and moral expectations that have nothing to do with reality.
Edit: "change is an illusion, will be written about in the future" - wat? I don't even... You're saying that if you're a "nice guy" you're born with it, will stay that way, one day find a woman that loves you this way and THEN will dump you for a "bad guy" anyway? Wat.
I just think that we should do away with the terminology of "nice guy", I don't care about anything else. If, according to how the term is used, the defining feature of a nice guy is that he isn't actually nice, but rather manipulative, then maybe it's just a silly and confusing concept. Any discussion about it, as it has in this thread already, will mostly devolve to arguing about who falls under the definition of this term.
"Nice guy" is what you usually call the guy who isn't sexual and only provides rapport/connection to the girl but doesn't create any form of attraction. Usually that includes highly rapport-seeking behaviour as well. It's not ideal but it's probably the best phrase that's currently out there. That has nothing to do with manipulation at all.
"Being nice" includes things like holding doors open, bringing a gift a long or buying the girl a drink.
The problem for most people new to the subject trying to understand where the line is drawn between "being nice" and "being rapport-seeking". If I'm talking to a girl for 30 minutes and am about to get up to get myself a drink asking "Do you want something too?" and bring one along, I'm being nice. If I ask her for the money (under most conditions) I'm being cheap.
If I open with "Do you want something to drink?" or keep buying her her drinks in the above manner every time I meet her, I'm being the rapport-seeking "nice guy". (In the first case I'm trying to "buy" her time, in the second case I'm putting myself in a serving position and her on a pedestal.)
The "cool" way to do things is usually between the extremes: Bring along the first drink and once they're finished up it's cool to ask: "Hey, first round was on me, what about you get the second round?" - that's neither cheap, nor nice, nor being an asshole. It's fair to both parties. "Nice guys" tend to put the other persons value above their own, "bad guys" tend to put their own value above that of others. Neither extreme works as well as the middleground.
On November 04 2012 19:36 r.Evo wrote: You are off on so many levels it's not even funny. It starts with "Women who wear slutty clothes in clubs aren't women suitable for a long-term relationship" and ends with "The main thing is that whether you’re a nice guy, bad guy, or a girl looking for something more, you just have to be yourself."
For one, that's not what I was saying. I was saying for some nice guys, seeing that good looking girl in the bar in the slutty clothes may not warrant what he is typically looking for in a long-term relationship. It was more hypothetical, and not literal at all. Notice I added the "<insert whatever you think is negative here>" as well.
On November 04 2012 19:36 r.Evo wrote: The typical "Nice guy" doesn't finish last because he's nice, he finishes last because he isn't sexual. If you see a women you like in a completely non-sexual way (hint: Madonna-whore-complex) it is almost impossible to build a sexual relationship. Without a sexual relationship you end with the guy having a huge random (most often "creepy" crush on the girl) and her not being sexually attracted. Instead, she rather grabs a guy who isn't exactly nice or great for a relationship but at least in tune with his own sexuality (usually referred to as "the bad guy").
An extension of being comfortable in their own skin, and confident; no argument here.
On November 04 2012 19:36 r.Evo wrote: "Just have to be yourself" is among the most horrible advice you can give someone having trouble with women. Why? Because most people have no idea who they really are and have their head filled with social and moral expectations that have nothing to do with reality.
That's generally a cop-out to say people don't know who they are, because they're typically unsatisfied with what they see and ascribe to those very moral and social expectations that you mention. It's not a matter of some deep philosophical meaning about who one is in their essence. People have different traits, interests and personalities in line with their career, social settings and other areas. Once they accept and act who they are, and not what they think they should be, things will become easier.
On November 04 2012 19:36 r.Evo wrote: Edit: "change is an illusion, will be written about in the future" - wat? I don't even... You're saying that if you're a "nice guy" you're born with it, will stay that way, one day find a woman that loves you this way and THEN will dump you for a "bad guy" anyway? Wat.
My statement is more far-reaching than in terms of a relationship. Change, in behavioural aspects, is an illusion. I don't want to cloud up this thread with it right now. I will be trying to write about my theory in the future.
bountiful/booty-full discusion. I feel almost all opinions in here are valuable and insightful.
Some... ability to overlook one's own flaws and be like "hah, yeah, i'm fine. no big" is not always "nice" but it is useful.
Say you're a sales associate for paint and you know that your knowledge is limited. You do, however, know enough to make one type of paint sound better than another. Will you use your words to affect someone's decision?? It's not nice but its useful, you see.
Some people are able to say "yeah this is egg shell, very very lustrous and good (instert smart sounding bull shit)" and not feel they are being dishonest. I can't do this but it really helps. The customer is happy because he feels he got the right thin; you're happy cuz you got a sale. So here is where actual "niceness" might be a bad thing.. If you're "nice" you may want them to have the most honest representation possible. In consumer society however, many are deluded into wanting to buy an illusion.. So in this case Honesty < Being confident in your dishonesty. I believe This little equation can transfer over to dating.
If you're with someone and you're worried about saying the right thing, you won't say much.. And you won't feel good, so you won't be able to actually be nice..
On November 04 2012 09:28 Kalingingsong wrote: lol, "nice guys" who are rich/sexy/hot have no trouble getting women. It's the "nice guys" who are poor/fat/ugly that have trouble getting women.
But instead of admitting they are poor/fat/ugly, they try to blame it on women by accusing them of being "irrational" (wake up guys, they actually trying not to hurt your feelings).
edit:
from an investment prospective, not going for someone simply because they are nice Is Rational (this doesn't address the rationality of going for bad boys of course).
If a person has money, or is physically sexy, the benefits are more tangible and it is easier to manage the risk, eg you will be able to see if someone's bank account is going down or they are losing their muscles, so you can leave them before they lose everything.
Where as if you invest in someone's personality, that is a total black box. A person can be nice now, but what if their attitude suddenly changes, or maybe they are faking their personality? there is no indicator that allows a woman to easily see this coming, and so going for a "nice personality" is actually more risky and thus less rational.
Ah yes, that's why we only see rich, beautiful people getting together and having children, right?
of course other people also do it, but they either have no choice or they are irrational. lol
Nice guys don't fail because of the things you mention, but because they're afraid to do anything sexual. In my eyes, a nice guy has good energy and connects with woman, but doesn't attract them on a level further than friends. I used to be the nice guy, you just have to stop being afraid of touching women (I don't know why I used to make such a big deal out of this).
I always try to be honest, genuine and confident. I don't think the "bad boy (just an asshole really)" stereotype is the best way to go. The reason he always has a girlfriend is because he talks to a lot of girls in a sexual manner, and doesn't care if things go south. If a nice guy talks to 10 girls, 1 one of them will probably like him too. The problem is that usually the nice guy is "obsessing" over this one girl who he deems to be perfect for him, and puts all his energy into her. Chances are pretty big she's one of the 9 out of 10 girls that isn't interested, and not the 1 out of 10 girl that is.
In my experience it's perfectly fine to be a nice guy, I even highly prefer it, but you can't be afraid of building attraction through touch, and you can't put all your eggs in one basket.
On November 04 2012 23:35 Arcanefrost wrote: Nice guys don't fail becaus eof the things you mention, but because they're afraid to do anything sexual. In my eyes, a nice guy has good energy and connects with woman, but doesn't attract them on a level further than friends. I used to be the nice guy, you just have to stop being afraid of touching women (I don't know why I used to make such a big deal out of this).
I always try to be honest, genuine and confident. I don't think the "bad boy (just an asshole really)" stereotype is the best way to go. The reason he always has a girlfriend is because he talks to a lot of girls in a sexual manner and doesn't care if things go south. If a nice guy talks to 10 girls, 1 one of them will probably like him too. The problem is that usually the nice guy is "obsessing" over this one girl who he deems to be perfect for him, and puts all his energy into her. Chances are pretty big she's one of the 9 out of 10 girls that isn't interested, and not the 1 out of 10 girl that is.
In my experience it's perfectly fine to be a nice guy, I even highly prefer it, but you can't be afraid of building attraction through touch, and you can't put all your eggs in one basket.
Yeah that's a good point. The guys who are more brazen are taking failure bettter, and will thus appear less fragile to a woman. This way she will not have to worry about hurting his feelings in the bedroom or something simple. THe "i don't give a eff" attitude is just kind of essential to have the courage to make things happen (sexually).
I think like someone said earlier "using your balls" is what you gotta do. The purely biological energy of the psyche is called the id. I guess the id would just have sex in front of everyone right then and there if not for the ego formulating this energy into appropriate behaviour for the id to get what it wants.
Most men have the id, the energy they need, however, incorporating it into appropriate behaviour is the challenge. For me at a bar, dancing with a woman is easy. I just have to go in, expect rejection and be kind of cool and then make my move with physical contact. Rejection happens quickly..
When it comes to using this energy in non-dance floor settings its more of a challenge. My guess is that i need to be able to say "down boy, down boy" to my balls a little bit better.
On November 04 2012 12:44 rezoacken wrote: "Nice guys" is actually bad-wording when trying to describe that kind of guy: + Show Spoiler +
The problem is not that he is a nice person, polite and stuff. The problem is that he is... weak or soft. He let the girl walk over him and do what she wants. He doesn't express his own needs/wants. He has no passions and will quickly make a 180 just to please someone. That's being weak and having no personality. Girls want to have some fun.
On the opposite side it's very wrong to say girls want to date bad people. Will she date an asshole ? probably. But it's not what she wants. The thing is, said asshole at least has a personality and that's somewhat attractive. She doesn't know at first glance its a bad person, she just hopes he will be different or that she can change it. Also it's important to remember, these people will also just have an easier time asking a girl out. The more you hit, the better your chances. Nice guys that don't try or wait 3years to do it will fail. <<Can't think of a good example>>
So... what to do ? Just be in the middle. Be a good person but with a strong personality. Have passions, have beliefs, do not apologize for wanting to see a different movie and don't crawl. OH and most important... don't be afraid to actually ask the girl out !! Be more like these guys (but don't steal money !): + Show Spoiler +
Oh and geek nice guys... remember, getting a degree is probably 20x harder than getting a girlfriend. Getting a perfect girlfriend however is pretty hard but you won't find THE ONE if you don't try out some first.
Thank you rezoacken, I feel like you have words of wisdom . Actually come to think of it, most people posting in this thread echo your sentiments. The nice guy finishing last is definitely a misnomer in general, it has little do with being nice
Seriously this is bullshit. I've heard this arguement a lot, but going hand in hand with that nice guy mentality is also generally a very passive, introverted personality.
I know a few nice guys who are ridiculously popular, and a few that are woefully alone. The major difference is the popular guys are also confident, outgoing, and funny. The guys who are alone are generally quiet, and reserved. Girls are not going to notice you unless you make them notice you.
I think a lot of nice guys are under the impression that everything they say has to be PC and composed, or emotional, or intellectual. If you stick to those guns you're going to have a tough time coupling up. As a nice guy you can still joke around, still say inappropriate stuff, and still be loud and boisterous, you just have to frame it all with the proper context.
Now I'm not saying there aren't a lot of girls who don't love jerks. There is. And generally when you move into your mid 20s those are the ones who aren't in a committed relationship. Those, and the ones who are equally painfully introverted, like the aforementioned 'nice guys'. At the same time if you really are a genuinely nice guy, those are the types of girls you really don't want to be involved with anyways. They'll drop you for a shiny piece of colored glass, or just cheat on you unabashedly.
Going back to what I said previously, I think what a lot of the self proclaimed nice guys failed to understand is that in the dating world there has to be a hook. It's ingrained into all mammals and 90% of animals. Mating hinges on a member of one sex attracting the other with some sort outward demonstration of availability and superiority. And then the other party acting upon that and approaching said actor. This holds true to humans as well. You have to do something to get a girl to notice you, or if you notice a girl, approaching her and making clear your intentions.
In short, girls aren't mind readers. The impetus falls on you to make her realize what a great guy you are. Jerks do that well, mostly under false pretenses, but all girls know what he's selling. No one knows what you're selling if you're posting something anonymously on an internet forum populated by predominately males.
On November 05 2012 00:40 Grumbels wrote: Girls must be really dumb to like people that aren't nice to them.
Yeah. A smart guy like you never went silly over the hottest girl in the building who doesn't care about you or your feelings.
Also, let us not forget that some male specimens are just naturally pumping with testosterone and hard muscles and appropriate levels of courage. This type does not know what it is to be marginalized like the guys who were never good at sports. It's never crossed their mind they are not competent because they so obviously are.
Thus, it is not about whether or not they are nice. They'll get women if they're nice or if they're mean. It is their biology. They will maybe tend to be mean because they do not know how it feels to be on the losing end because they win, and when they lose they have all that reassurance to back them.
Trying to figure out what it is about ther asshole-ishness is misguided. They're assholes because they can be and they get women because of their superior physical genes.
Haha. People who are good at sports don't know what it is to be on the losing end because they win. /quote Do you know the concept of competition in sports? You can't always win. :p
To be honest, this entire internet fantasy of the bad guy that's stealing girls from the nice guy, what with his dashing good looks and carefree attitude, is just that: a fantasy. In real life girls are attracted to guys that are interesting and friendly. Why not be nice and interesting, instead of demonizing either one of the two qualities?
On November 05 2012 00:40 Grumbels wrote: Girls must be really dumb to like people that aren't nice to them.
Yeah. A smart guy like you never went silly over the hottest girl in the building who doesn't care about you or your feelings.
Also, let us not forget that some male specimens are just naturally pumping with testosterone and hard muscles and appropriate levels of courage. This type does not know what it is to be marginalized like the guys who were never good at sports. It's never crossed their mind they are not competent because they so obviously are.
Thus, it is not about whether or not they are nice. They'll get women if they're nice or if they're mean. It is their biology. They will maybe tend to be mean because they do not know how it feels to be on the losing end because they win, and when they lose they have all that reassurance to back them.
Trying to figure out what it is about ther asshole-ishness is misguided. They're assholes because they can be and they get women because of their superior physical genes.
Don't agree with this. Most bad boys aren't very good at sports, not to say that they don't play sports, but are just naturally cocky confident. The guys who are really good at sports are 99%¨of the time great guys, because it takes a lot of dedication and mental power to go that far in a certain branche. Pro soccer/nfl/ whatever players are all incredibly cool in my experience.
On November 05 2012 00:40 Grumbels wrote: Girls must be really dumb to like people that aren't nice to them.
Yeah. A smart guy like you never went silly over the hottest girl in the building who doesn't care about you or your feelings.
Also, let us not forget that some male specimens are just naturally pumping with testosterone and hard muscles and appropriate levels of courage. This type does not know what it is to be marginalized like the guys who were never good at sports. It's never crossed their mind they are not competent because they so obviously are.
Thus, it is not about whether or not they are nice. They'll get women if they're nice or if they're mean. It is their biology. They will maybe tend to be mean because they do not know how it feels to be on the losing end because they win, and when they lose they have all that reassurance to back them.
Trying to figure out what it is about ther asshole-ishness is misguided. They're assholes because they can be and they get women because of their superior physical genes.
Don't agree with this. Most bad boys aren't very good at sports, not to say that they don't play sports, but are just naturally cocky confident. The guys who are really good at sports are 99%¨of the time great guys, because it takes a lot of dedication and mental power to go that far in a certain branche. Pro soccer/nfl/ whatever players are all incredibly cool in my experience.
What are you talking about? Please define 'bad boy' and 'nice guy' for me.
On November 05 2012 00:40 Grumbels wrote: Girls must be really dumb to like people that aren't nice to them.
Yeah. A smart guy like you never went silly over the hottest girl in the building who doesn't care about you or your feelings.
Also, let us not forget that some male specimens are just naturally pumping with testosterone and hard muscles and appropriate levels of courage. This type does not know what it is to be marginalized like the guys who were never good at sports. It's never crossed their mind they are not competent because they so obviously are.
Thus, it is not about whether or not they are nice. They'll get women if they're nice or if they're mean. It is their biology. They will maybe tend to be mean because they do not know how it feels to be on the losing end because they win, and when they lose they have all that reassurance to back them.
Trying to figure out what it is about ther asshole-ishness is misguided. They're assholes because they can be and they get women because of their superior physical genes.
Don't agree with this. Most bad boys aren't very good at sports, not to say that they don't play sports, but are just naturally cocky confident. The guys who are really good at sports are 99%¨of the time great guys, because it takes a lot of dedication and mental power to go that far in a certain branche. Pro soccer/nfl/ whatever players are all incredibly cool in my experience.
Ok, for sure, both you and Grumbels have effective counter arguments. My main point, however, is that i believe there is a causality fallacy in most of the analysis here. Many are assuming that the asshol-ish side of a person is the reason he or she is attractive. What I am saying is that more likely ass hol-ishness is just a side effect of the thing that actually is the source of a person's attractiveness.. Their physical beauty and abundance of desirable sexual hormones showing through physicality or whatever...
On November 04 2012 19:36 r.Evo wrote: Edit: "change is an illusion, will be written about in the future" - wat? I don't even... You're saying that if you're a "nice guy" you're born with it, will stay that way, one day find a woman that loves you this way and THEN will dump you for a "bad guy" anyway? Wat.
My statement is more far-reaching than in terms of a relationship. Change, in behavioural aspects, is an illusion. I don't want to cloud up this thread with it right now. I will be trying to write about my theory in the future.
I keep forgetting that people never change and everyone behaves just the same over a period of 50+ years.
I used to be a "nice" guy. I would do all the things they did in the movies. And I would go in with the mindset of, "oh gee it's only been two dates and I don't want to screw things up, I'm gonna wait to the perfect moment to kiss her." And I think that in a nutshell is what a nice guy is. He's someone that waits for the perfect moment to do X. And I think that stems from a lack of confidence and experience.
Now that I have been out with a lot more girls, it's really easy to make these decisions. If I simply feel in the mood, I make a move. Sometimes they respond, sometimes they don't. I don't really take into consideration all the possible extremities before making such a decision because I know that I'm awesome as fuck and some other girl will recognize that if this one doesn't.
Note: This is just a general rule. Each girl is different and if you're looking for something serious, they must be romanced in a different way. However, if you come into a relationship with a different mentality than the one I mentioned, then in my opinion, your chances of anything happening with that girl are very low.
There is no wholly applicable formula for getting the girl. When you grow up, the key is compatibility. You don't have to put on a show, or lie, or grovel, or anything. You either work or you don't. Now, this whole bullshit about women gravitating towards "bad" guys is so dismissive... The bottom line is that if you are not a desirable male, you will not be sought after. Whining about the dating scene is just a way to project your failures onto everyone else. Oh, I'm a "nice" guy, I have disadvantage. BZZZT No, you're in denial, and possibly mildly pretentious.
Also, let's grant your premise that women are dumb and go after men that are "bad for them." If these women are so dumb and feeble, then why are you whining about not getting them? Hmm? What is it about these women that make them so desirable to you? Certainly can't be their regard to safety or respect, or intelligence. Could it be... their looks? Sounds a little shallow.
And you're kind of a prick because your blog is laden with stereotypes. Including just the ones about appearances. There's also the common idea that guys with backward hats, gross forearms, and overpriced clothing always treat women poorly. I think if you actually ever knew people in different social rings, you'll find that people really aren't that different. You also don't know what goes on during their more private moments. "Oh, she's with that kind of guy."
Hey, there's plenty of single "nice" women out there, guys! Really nice girls.
But wait a second, we all know what nice really means.
"Hey, what do you think of Brad?" "Oh he's... he's nice, you know..."
"Nice" may include, but is not limited to, the following: - not sexy - unremarkable - tries too hard - not pretty - too fat - too proud - emergency back burner
Being nice has nothing to do with the fact someone doesn't have the ability to have any girlfriend.
Like someone else said, often "nice guys" are obsessed by one girl and are so focused, they probably have missed their opportunity with a better match. The best way to find a girl who likes you is to know what kind of girls you like. And it's not as easy as it seems, you have to try to discover yourself.
That's why shy guys have the most difficulties in the world to be in a relationship. And I don't even want to talk about how sexist it is to think women are all the same.
The Jenna Marbles video won the thread already, y'all. Girls are not rejecting me because I'm being too passive. They're rejecting me because i always go for the ridiculously good looking one. Usually she is interested in fashion and money and looking for ways to improve these two areas in her life. That means "rejection" is not failure. It is a lack of compatibility.
On November 04 2012 08:52 divito wrote: Nice guys are in general cases, far too rational and analytical to allow their instincts to lead them into a potential relationship. They psyche themselves out, whether by thinking they can’t get a woman, or by simply trying too hard.
.......and then they go to facebook/twitter/reddit/public internet outlet and complain about how nice guys finish last.
On November 06 2012 00:49 rezoacken wrote: As a side note... I feel its harder to make good friends (you know... the special kind) than getting a "girlfriend".
I need more bros Maybe I should make brodates.
actually, you get women easier than good homies?? that is actually a problem i never considered for myself. I seem to always get at least one bro whereever i go. maybe we should mix flavours so i can get more chicks
On November 06 2012 00:49 rezoacken wrote: As a side note... I feel its harder to make good friends (you know... the special kind) than getting a "girlfriend".
I need more bros Maybe I should make brodates.
actually, you get women easier than good homies?? that is actually a problem i never considered for myself. I seem to always get at least one bro whereever i go. maybe we should mix flavours so i can get more chicks
Well to be more precise. If I was still in my native country I would still be seeing my old friends that I know for years. Now that I am in a different country and not really at school anymore I find it way harder to make NEW good friends as a 27yo man.
I have acquaintances, couple friends (friends met with my gf), and people I'd call friends but it's not deep enough. Maybe that's something that will develop once I work in a place for a time idk.
On November 05 2012 03:20 QuanticHawk wrote: Hahahahahahahaha The 2nd paragraph in the op is one of the dumbest most sexist and chauvinistic things I've ever read holy shit
Why is it sexist? Because you're assuming that I think guys are any better? Please, read it again and stop assuming inanities. You suffer almost from the same kool-aid this guy below was drinking.
On November 05 2012 04:47 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Also, let's grant your premise that women are dumb and go after men that are "bad for them." If these women are so dumb and feeble, then why are you whining about not getting them? Hmm? What is it about these women that make them so desirable to you? Certainly can't be their regard to safety or respect, or intelligence. Could it be... their looks? Sounds a little shallow.
And you're kind of a prick because your blog is laden with stereotypes. Including just the ones about appearances. There's also the common idea that guys with backward hats, gross forearms, and overpriced clothing always treat women poorly. I think if you actually ever knew people in different social rings, you'll find that people really aren't that different. You also don't know what goes on during their more private moments. "Oh, she's with that kind of guy."
Huh, did you even read the blog? Nowhere did I say I was a nice guy, nor was I complaining about me personally. Where did I reference one thing about myself? The "stereotypes," as you name them, were examples; they weren't specific to me or anyone.
I know English comprehension is rough business, especially on an international forum, but I think you're one of the only people to actually think I was referencing anything personal regarding myself in this blog. The only thing personal were the ideas about why nice guys "finish last" contained therein.
It has nothing with being nice or not. It has to do with attracting women.
I'm unhumanly nice to people, and yet I still get girls regularly. For example, If I was a normal human being, got revenge for when I get screwed over, people would be having it pretty shitty right now. Rather, I let it blow.
I'm a computer engineering major, the epitome of a challenging college curriculum, work ethic, and where you will find the most nerds lol, but I go above and beyond that pathetic status quo. And yet, I still get girls consistently lol. That said, they're girls I seldom see, so it's a lot more challenging than I'd imagine it would be in your case. It is EXTREMELY easy to pull a girl you see and hang out with like on a daily basis haha.
On November 05 2012 03:20 QuanticHawk wrote: Hahahahahahahaha The 2nd paragraph in the op is one of the dumbest most sexist and chauvinistic things I've ever read holy shit
Why is it sexist? Because you're assuming that I think guys are any better? Please, read it again and stop assuming inanities. You suffer almost from the same kool-aid this guy below was drinking.
I know English comprehension is rough business, especially on an international forum, but I think you're one of the only people to actually think I was referencing anything personal regarding myself in this blog. The only thing personal were the ideas about why nice guys "finish last" contained therein.
As humans (men & women), we’ve evolved, but not far enough that women (not men) are solely intellectual in their pursuit of men. The majority of women (not men) are still at the mercy of basic biological imperatives and is another crux of why nice guys typically finish last. Nice guys are in general cases, far too rational and analytical (ie women like irrational men) to allow their instincts to lead them into a potential relationship.
I dunno dude, sounds pretty sexist. Maybe you just suck at writing things that make sense if that isn't what you meant?
On November 08 2012 00:21 QuanticHawk wrote: As humans (men & women), we’ve evolved, but not far enough that women (not men) are solely intellectual in their pursuit of men. The majority of women (not men) are still at the mercy of basic biological imperatives and is another crux of why nice guys typically finish last. Nice guys are in general cases, far too rational and analytical (ie women like irrational men) to allow their instincts to lead them into a potential relationship.
I dunno dude, sounds pretty sexist. Maybe you just suck at writing things that make sense if that isn't what you meant?
Well, since men don't typically pursue other men, I would have thought that was a given in that statement (in terms of no referencing both sexes). The second statement not specifically referencing men is because of the preceding sentence.
I apologize if I wasn't clear; I didn't think for a second that someone would find my diction sexist.
Nice guys don't finish last. Guys with no balls who never take chances finish last and use "niceness" as an excuse for their own passive behavior not getting any results.
EPT
. ![[image loading]](http://tremyror.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/lenoard.jpg)
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. Actually come to think of it, most people posting in this thread echo your sentiments. The nice guy finishing last is definitely a misnomer in general, it has little do with being nice
Maybe I should make brodates.![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vSsyQuGYb5U/TBpchDZkk8I/AAAAAAAAAUs/0Vsajx4iJCs/s1600/fzone.png)
