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On October 10 2012 06:15 EnderSword wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2012 06:08 Kasu wrote:
So does depression always have this cyclical, returning nature? Because after a couple of years I just started treatment for mine, and when (if) its gone I really really really don't want it to come back. It's very prone to it, but no, its not always cyclical. Some people will respond very well to medications or treatments and you'll go on just fine. Some people have said it just lifted from them at some point (Sarah Silverman has done a number of interviews to that effect) and they could just feel a difference. But for many others, it will be a more permanent issue that you can manage, but not really 'cure'.
Thanks. Good to know.
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If the fall is harder the better one feels.
Then all the more reason to fall, if that is the way upwards.
I find a perhaps leading question from your text:
How do we "stop" the need of analysis and understanding? How do we let things just be instead of analysing things, if it can the reduce feeling which leads us.
Analysing isn't all bad right?
To me acceptance and living in the moment is the key. Nothing new there. But I've been apathic, depressed, out of sleep, having fear driving my core, trying to think my way out of things only actions can solve.
And today I’m in another place.
I can't always keep my head clear or my spark alive. Noone can. Some people are just unaware of the spark being able to stop burning. (Luckily so? Or do their eyes miss things we can see? )
Once a month a rough week comes, bringing me down.
But I've found stations where to stop my overthinking at such times. When a new trouble comes to my mind it can hit me hard. But over time I will learn of it’s irrationality and how far it’s logical for me to follow it. ( In many cases I’ll just see it from a distance and never listen to it, keep doing what I planned to do)
I push through this hopeless week. And trust that even though I find no hope, it's always out there. The harder I look for it the better it hides. If it's easier to find hope by not looking for it, then that's the direction in which I create habits for my thoughts.
A symbolic picture of this is a man out in the rain with an umbrella.
Hope is every raindrop and it’s a neverending rain.
The umbrella is there as a shield against the hail which is anything unpleasant we fear emotionally.
The umbrella is our fear.
I do not know you and you don’t know me.
And the picture I've gotten of you from the internet may be completely wrong.
But I think you lay a lot of value in intelligence and understanding. We’ll always need that part.
But if we've got a lot of it then we should investigate the simpler perspective which one might miss out on otherwise.
Kierkegaard called some human beings "Knights of faith".
People who'll never reach a certain objectivity, a perspective outside of man and time. They just accept their time and live in it.
It doesn't mean stupidity. (relative yes)
It involves living in the present and accepting things as they are.
I can do that today. I couldn't last week. But today I can. Today is one of those days when I use my distance towards people full of shit and outthink them and laugh at them, at the same time engaging emotionally in things I care about, people I care about.
What you explained in your text was” not feeling”. That’s not what I’ve described here.
But I’ve been there. And I’m not there today.
On October 09 2012 14:23 Garnet wrote:
There's also no point to death...
I used to think that there's no rewarding thoughs about death, only accepting it and moving on with the day fills a function.
But I've added a thought before the part of moving on.
There are no angels according to my reasoning.
But if there was, they'd envy our fragile lives and switch their eternity for it any second.
Eternity makes everything pointless.
It's a life without contrasts and spark.
Our spark is there because we will die one day.
Death fills the function of giving us meaning. A reason to act, a reason to not die today.
We keep on living because everyday is new, and all things can change.
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On October 10 2012 06:25 Kasu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2012 06:15 EnderSword wrote:On October 10 2012 06:08 Kasu wrote:
So does depression always have this cyclical, returning nature? Because after a couple of years I just started treatment for mine, and when (if) its gone I really really really don't want it to come back. It's very prone to it, but no, its not always cyclical. Some people will respond very well to medications or treatments and you'll go on just fine. Some people have said it just lifted from them at some point (Sarah Silverman has done a number of interviews to that effect) and they could just feel a difference. But for many others, it will be a more permanent issue that you can manage, but not really 'cure'. Thanks. Good to know.
So far I had it very cyclically for like 8 years, never feeling like it was really gone though when I was cycling away from it cause I still had the basic negative thoughts and thought pattern, and then earlier this year when my anxiety and depression were worse than ever I did an intensive group therapy for a few months that had a great therapist and started new medication and now I think mine's really gone and I've gotten very comfortable with myself.
The emphasis that really helped for me was on being extremely non-judgmental with myself, challenging myself every time I think I "did this wrong" or "said this wrong" or am "doing life wrong" or "being a no-life/loser" when really there's no real wrong way to live or whatever, there's just who you are and everyone reacts to society differently and has their own coping strategies. And also learning how to set good mental boundaries.
And for me it really helped seeing other people who could share openly in a safe place because everyone struggles with different things, so you get good input on why other people don't struggle with what you do, and you realize what things you are secure with and don't struggle like other people with.
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blog makes a lot of sense, thanks Tyler.
explosions, 10/10
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It's simple. You're fucked. I don't mean in a permanent way, but in a way that barrages your mind with calamity, where in the external reality it's actually much more serene but probably similarly disturbing. I think as humans we're petty, vindicative, egotistical, etc. There's no denying that, but when you break it down to it's just you and other dudes and dudettes experiencing things.. it gets a bit easier. If you focus on the sensation of the nose its even easier to pin point. It gets less about being right and more about realizing the situation. I probably sound crazy, but that's alright! Enjoy your game 
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Evolution really took a turn for the worst with the development of that prefrontal cortex thing.
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my feelings just disappear over time - it does help to be social though
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what I understood in your blog is that people who are not depressed (temporarily or in general) just chose not to think about it too much and let slide any bad thought about the reason of thing. Well I can explain why you are mistaken
take the people who ask this kind of question as a vocation, as a life work.
what does a neurobiologist think when he's happy? he probably knows what's going on and yet he probably doesn't think of it as insignificant compared to the grand scheme of things. there's no pretending to be all right here, there's no so-called void that waits in the darkness under every legitimate question one can ask. You're right, happiness is a very human thing so why making a big fuss over it? But so is irrationality, so why would you care if you can't find a solution that stands up to your human standards?
you've been given life, as everyone else, just take it for what it is because that's the only thing you have for granted.
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This is whiniest most pseudo-intellectual quasi-apology couched in excuses I've ever read.
User was temp banned for this post.
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I wouldn't mind hearing more about this. I've 'felt depressed' often enough, but the more I hear about it I don't think I've ever had clinical depression, and it sort of interests me.
also I love nony and wish he was my noona. just imagining nony's smile makes me start smiling myself sometimes.
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I deal with similar stuff. The best way I've found of dealing with it is staying busy and trying to help my loved ones. Even if life is pointless at least you can make it a little bit less shit for the people around you.
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Keep your chin up, NoNy. We love you.
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On October 09 2012 15:12 sickoota wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 14:49 MountainDewJunkie wrote:On October 09 2012 14:48 sickoota wrote:On October 09 2012 14:40 MountainDewJunkie wrote:On October 09 2012 14:37 corpuscle wrote:On October 09 2012 14:26 ROOTFayth wrote:On October 09 2012 14:19 corpuscle wrote:Every time I read a thread like this, I regret reading the comments because it just reinforces how misinformed people are about depression. People who are clinically depressed are not just going through a rough patch, they don't need logical answers to their issues, they aren't just being whiny. It's a disease, not a state of mind. If you think you're being helpful by pointing out why a depressed person "should" be happy or suggesting ways to get out of a temporary bad mood, you're not being helpful. It sounds silly, but that's pretty much the same thing as telling someone who has the flu that you're totally fine and they should do X, Y, and Z and they'll be healthy again. It just doesn't work that way, and you're being demeaning to people who suffer from depression when you belittle it by saying they're just being irrational. I guess I can't relate to any of that
why not just take medicine? Antidepressants provide some relief, but they don't cure/prevent/treat anything. They're like painkillers... if you have a busted knee, they give you percs so you can go through PT and actually fix the problem without it being excruciating. antidepressants + therapy then don't just sit there and do nothing he probably has people looking out for him, he has a fiance afaik... (I'm guessing in his current state of mind he wouldn't go out and seek help by himself) it's not like therapy and antidepressants is an instant fix... it's a complicated disease that has only been acknowledged as a real thing for 30-40 years, so nobody actually knows how to cure it. it's also worth noting that even someone who's relatively stable and happy can have depressive episodes, especially when stressed Calling it a complicated disease is debatable. Also, all the things you've described are aspects of life. We have trials, we have stresses, we try to cope, sometimes we cope poorly. Sometimes we get blue. These are most often situational influences, over "chemical imbalances." Life is depressing a lot of times. We are not inflicted with some mysterious disease. You shouldn't talk about things you know nothing about. I'm listening The fact that you are unaware of what distinguishes clinical depression from feeling "blue" reveals a deep seated ignorance about the issue, yet you insist on thrusting forth your uninformed opinion against those with first hand experience. Have you read any Socrates? You shouldn't talk about things you know nothing about.
If you ask me any human being old enough has experienced 20 + years of emotion and internal thought process. Seems like enough to be a professional at just about any other topic to me.
This "dont talk about something you don't know about" garbage is just a cheap, lowbrow debate tool used to demean those who think differently than you or come to a different conclusion. Especially when delivered in a lazy one-liner with no backup what-so-ever.
Sometimes a persons ignorance can be obvious but his statement seems well thought out and reasoned just fine, you don't have to read some text book on a subject or have taken a class to come to a conclusion on it. Especially something as complex and yet so close to all of us as human emotion , are you claiming you know everything there is to know? no one does on the subject.
Also philosophers are over rated  . Just because they are better at articulating things doesn't mean they were the only/ first people to conceptualize the ideals they became famous for. The only people worth idolizing are chess champions and S- Class starcraft players
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Its kind of fascinating to look at life through your eyes, I didn't realize it was so fundamentally pointless when feelings no longer exist, even though its so logical I never considered how life would be like without these emotions that most people take for granted. When I read your post I feel like we're basically a type of drug addict, and life is pointless without that addiction.
But finding happiness seems rational enough to me. And if you don't feel happiness, you should try to do your best to find it again, or set yourself up so that when your emotions come back to you you can enjoy them fully. I think depression can be a useful tool in that way, allowing you to do things that you dislike without feeling any negative emotions - understanding that when happiness come back to you, you'll have prepared the way to enjoy it all the more.
In the mean time, I guess meditation and exercise might help? Anyway, hopefully you find a way to use those muted emotions to help you. With all our understanding of brain plasticity, I feel like there should be an answer on the horizon somewhere
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This came at a good time for me. Thanks nony.
edit: and the others that shared their experiences
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People fall into a bit of depression especially if they start comparing themselves to others.
I'll take myself for example:
I'm 24, just graduated from a commerce degree (did it part time cuz I was working full time). I work in a computer repair shop with my dad. I drive a honda civic, renting a place with a mate, don't have a gf and earning enough to get by with bit of saving. Some may think I'm in a good boat but I don't think so. I think should be doing better.
I compare myself to others for example. Same age, graduated the same degree 2 years ago, they got a well-paid+stable (double of my income) job in a large company, married, bought a house. I see a growing gap of how inferior I am when I compare myself to them which puts me down. I envy them.
BUT, I look at myself again on the bright side. I learned how to cook, wash, look after myself, study while working full-time, managed to save enough to buy a car while living out of home. I've also got my friends, family (albeit separated) and my lovely cat.
Happiness is achieved when you've put aside the differences between you and everyone else, embrace what you have, pursue what you want. Acknowledge that there are people in a shitter boat than you, but also a lot of people on a better boat than you.
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Ignorance is bliss. Would you rather be the fool who spends his life getting wasted every night trying to get laid, or to be enlightened as you currently are?
Nihilism is normal for intelligent human beings. Feeling constant happiness is completely unsustainable given our biochemistry.
Yes, life is meaningless. Happiness is meaningless. Among other things, life is suffering.
Life is a sequence of experiences generated by the human brain. We receive inputs through our five senses, and our brain generates some particular biochemical response. Simple I/O.
An interesting thought experiment then: what are all the possible experiences that the human brain can generate? We can model human experience as a high (or infinite) dimensional manifold, where the axes of the Euclidean spaces represent some particular scalar quantity - say 'amount of force (N) applied to our left leg' at a particular instant in spacetime. But we can even short-circuit that. With a so called experience machine attached to our brain, we can pass in the same neuronal input as if a force of that magnitude actually was applied to our left leg. This machine would then theoretically be able to generate every single possible human experience.
For many people, things like sex and chocolate are simply "inefficient" mechanisms for triggering certain experiences. In the near future, a happiness / excitement / enthusiasm / whatever-emotion-you-want pill. Later on, fully functional experience machines.
Anyways, enough on that. One way to 'hack' your brain that may or may not help:
- Completely detach from everything: all desires, cravings, and aversions.
True choice is the gift of detachment. Only when you are truly detached can you freely choose among the choices you are aware of in your mental realm (based on morals, ethics, values, flip of a coin, whatever).
To oversimplify this, assign everything in life some scalar value, where given true choice - you would choose the option with the highest assigned value. Obviously these values dynamically change given the current context.
In this case, you don't need to *feel* motivated to do anything - you have no aversions or desires for anything - you simply do what has a higher value within your mental construct.
All the best.
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Rejecting worldly "desires, cravings, aversions" seems to be the opposite of experiencing life. Without these sensations, what are we? We are but humans. To be completely detached is to be dead. I mean really, you would have to be actually dead to be fully detached. If you ask me, a little indulgence and risk-taking actually improves things a little bit. It's certainly more efficient than sulking.
It's just awkward in this case because OP draws attention to himself through some act deemed "unprofessional" and then makes a blog like this to imply that this influencing his actions. I think we all know what Tyler wants to say, but it's kind of like the elephant in the room now.
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Its probably been said before in this thread, but people who haven't felt real depression really can't 100% relate with what Tyler is talking about. Depression isn't something you can just understand from a reading or hearing someones story. You have to live it. You have to live the war, a war you lose when you win and lose when you win. Obviously there are varying levels of depression and what some can "handle" is unbearable to others, but it doesn't change the way it effects you. What Tyler says about the diminishment of his ability to feel the need to "want" happiness is something I had to deal with also, and in my opinions the hardest point to beat on your own. Imagine fighting a wall that only becomes larger the harder you try, only to crush you once you've given up.You try so hard to have a good time and relax away from the thoughts, but they always find a way to creep back in. The fact that Tyler is able to write this post is a wonderful, wonderful thing, something I wish I could have done when I was buried in it.
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EPT
