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A lot of out there responses to this post, I dare to say a lot of... naivety.
Nony, I've had these same exact thoughts myself. The epiphany, the understanding that took me beyond these thoughts of "rationality" is that rationality and reason are merely after-the-fact justifications for the emotional problems we experience in the first place. It is all nothing but chemicals in the brain. If you experience depression, it will be inexplicable because it is purely biological, physiological, and so we come up with cognitive explanations or justifications for what we are experiencing. Most often these are existential "rational" questioning of the meaning of life. But the actual reality of the matter is that if only the chemicals in our brain behaved in the same manner as the average person, we would have no real concern with the meaning of life and all this existential bullshit which the average person never even thinks about on the average daily basis.
What I'm saying is reason has absolutely nothing to do with what we feel or how we experience life, humans are fundamentally emotion/instinctive/animal beings, and rationality is a myth which we use to justify what we feel naturally. The rationality isn't WRONG per se, but if you are in the right state of mind, the rationality of the existential dilemma becomes IRRELEVANT.
This is the sort of thing people have to recognize and reach on their own and in the meantime they will placate and rationalize their feelings with these sorts of existential assessments. But there is no salvation, no exit, in these dead-end outlets for thought and analysis. We are all human, all too human. Which is to say, we are animals with animalistic desires and cravings, and rationality or purpose in existence has never predated action in life, it has come as an after-the-fact assessment or justification.
There is a real freedom in finally recognizing that the ghosts you are chasing of meaning are actually phantoms, they are the imaginings of an unhealthy mind. There is no good in placating ourselves with a feeling of superiority over those who have healthy minds and therefore are capable of living and seeking happiness with no rational explanation or justification, with no reason... It is not the reason that is lacking, it is the inherent biological satisfaction with daily life. It is biology, chemistry, physiology, NOT reason, that is lacking.
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On October 10 2012 14:55 jdseemoreglass wrote:
A lot of out there responses to this post, I dare to say a lot of... naivety.
Nony, I've had these same exact thoughts myself. The epiphany, the understanding that took me beyond these thoughts of "rationality" is that rationality and reason are merely after-the-fact justifications for the emotional problems we experience in the first place. It is all nothing but chemicals in the brain. If you experience depression, it will be inexplicable because it is purely biological, physiological, and so we come up with cognitive explanations or justifications for what we are experiencing. Most often these are existential "rational" questioning of the meaning of life. But the actual reality of the matter is that if only the chemicals in our brain behaved in the same manner as the average person, we would have no real concern with the meaning of life and all this existential bullshit which the average person never even thinks about on the average daily basis.
What I'm saying is reason has absolutely nothing to do with what we feel or how we experience life, humans are fundamentally emotion/instinctive/animal beings, and rationality is a myth which we use to justify what we feel naturally. The rationality isn't WRONG per se, but if you are in the right state of mind, the rationality of the existential dilemma becomes IRRELEVANT.
This is the sort of thing people have to recognize and reach on their own and in the meantime they will placate and rationalize their feelings with these sorts of existential assessments. But there is no salvation, no exit, in these dead-end outlets for thought and analysis. We are all human, all too human. Which is to say, we are animals with animalistic desires and cravings, and rationality or purpose in existence has never predated action in life, it has come as an after-the-fact assessment or justification.
There is a real freedom in finally recognizing that the ghosts you are chasing of meaning are actually phantoms, they are the imaginings of an unhealthy mind. There is no good in placating ourselves with a feeling of superiority over those who have healthy minds and therefore are capable of living and seeking happiness with no rational explanation or justification, with no reason... It is not the reason that is lacking, it is the inherent biological satisfaction with daily life. It is biology, chemistry, physiology, NOT reason, that is lacking.
Spot on, and this is also the other piece that fell into place when I shed my depression. I trust my feelings and instincts to be the main filter for understanding the world and use my rational analysis (which is very sharp, I know I'm intelligent) mainly to understand what the feelings are and why they are what they are and to have justifications for them I can buy into (your rational mind will never just lay down and give up, but justifying or challenging feelings lets be at work, but positively for you). Before I would always look to my analytical thinking to understand every situation and the questions of existence but this never comes to a satisfactory right answer.
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Rationality and logic are overrated. They are good at creating true statements from true statements. Or equivalently true statements of the form "if A then B". People who talk about having meaning in their lives either rely on faulty logic or some arbitrary premise.
I guess my point is it is up to each one of us to find that little arbitrary spark we can base our own meaning on. The ultimate WHY is deeply personal and fundamentaly non-rational.
I'm not trying to ignore the daily fight against depression. I know first hand how it can influence your perception, thoughts and even your values. I'm just making the (ironically rational) point that the lack of rational meaning for life is not a problem. It's simply a feature of reality, that doesn't prevent true happiness, even when fully recognized.
The real reason for depression remains in the brain chemistry, maladaptive thought patterns and negative life-situations they often lead to. When these problems are fixed the question of WHY will be seen as the non-issue it truly is.
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<3 you Nony, i'm working through my depression too man. you need to make some NonY-Strong bracelets for depression. I'd wear one every day to remind me to fight through it. Even if you make mistakes know that those of us in similar situations that see you here in TL get strength from that. thanks man.
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Tyler, you've missed the big picture. What is the purpose of every living thing on this planet ? It is to reproduce and live in harmony. Cells, plants, animals undestood that but you didn't. Come on, are you smarter than them ? Seems not. You can be happy while living in harmony. Get a girlfriend, help others, have fun because this is the purpose of life.
Problem solved and don't thank me (I am only doing my purpose in life).
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Nothing fucking matters. You are one of 6 billion meatbags of *sorely* limited longevity on a ball of dirt and metal, orbiting one ball of hydrogen that will die out, out of however many billions of balls of hydrogen separated by space that is increasing into an inevitable cold death of the universe where nothing happens.
Here's an idea: Stop. Fucking. Caring.
Right in front of you, you got food to eat, people to interact with, chemically-induced highs to get, and a place where there's so much to do to alleviate boredom that you can live a hundred lifetimes and not do it all. Pick something to do, or lots of things to do and enjoy the ride.
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On October 10 2012 17:00 scrubtastic wrote:
Nothing fucking matters. You are one of 6 billion meatbags of *sorely* limited longevity on a ball of dirt and metal, orbiting one ball of hydrogen that will die out, out of however many billions of balls of hydrogen separated by space that is increasing into an inevitable cold death of the universe where nothing happens.
Here's an idea: Stop. Fucking. Caring.
Right in front of you, you got food to eat, people to interact with, chemically-induced highs to get, and a place where there's so much to do to alleviate boredom that you can live a hundred lifetimes and not do it all. Pick something to do, or lots of things to do and enjoy the ride.
Do you not realize that people are incapable of "JUST stop caring" or "JUST enjoy the ride"? If it was as simple as "I'm gonna tell myself to feel something and it will happen" then everyone on the fucking planet would be ecstatic with joy 24 hours a day. You and everyone who advocates this "JUST feel this way" approach are really displaying a fundamental misunderstanding of basic human psychology.
Imagine if you drank 6 shots and then I told you "JUST stop being drunk."
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On October 10 2012 17:00 scrubtastic wrote:
Nothing fucking matters. You are one of 6 billion meatbags of *sorely* limited longevity on a ball of dirt and metal, orbiting one ball of hydrogen that will die out, out of however many billions of balls of hydrogen separated by space that is increasing into an inevitable cold death of the universe where nothing happens.
Here's an idea: Stop. Fucking. Caring.
Right in front of you, you got food to eat, people to interact with, chemically-induced highs to get, and a place where there's so much to do to alleviate boredom that you can live a hundred lifetimes and not do it all. Pick something to do, or lots of things to do and enjoy the ride.
What if there's nothing left to enjoy? What if the only thing you enjoy inevitably brings you to crushing lows? What if your life seems doomed to repeat a cycle of success/happiness > demotivation > prolonged loss/hopelessness, and you don't have control over the trigger back to happiness, nor the duration of it?
Anyone who tries to make life out to be simple is being incredibly dishonest with either themselves or the world. That kind of simplification helps most people function, but for those who have had that veil lifted (usually young), it's incredibly difficult. Becoming emotionally healthy is a long and arduous process that the naturally 'healthy' can't/won't understand.
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Whoa - sorry guys.
Not gonna lie - I wasn't really trying to help out here, and I didn't think this thread was being taken as seriously as you guys are taking it; I apologize.
Yes I have good control over my emotions, yes life is good for me right now, yes my brain is probably wired differently. I find it pretty easy to not care and get distracted, if I so choose.
But again I didn't really expect all this seriousness and I'm definitely not helping.
My bad.
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NonY, I appreciate how you and other posters in this thread give an insight in what it's like to be in the shitstorm that is depression. It helps me understand better, although I can't (and hopefully won't) fully grasp what it's like.
What stings me is that many people react with "Just cheer up man!" or "You should just be happy, look around you, everything's fine". They don't realize that being in a depression is (among other things) the inability to do just that. It's like telling someone with insomnia to "just go to sleep". It's a simple thing... as long as you don't have insomnia.
Be strong, be wise, and thanks (all of you) for sharing your thoughts.
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there is no reason to live and no meaning behind it all. in the end, well all end up dying.
- im most likely useless for the development of mankind
- mankind is unimportant for the development of the universe
--> there is absolutly no sense in my existence.
So hey, there is no point in being depressed and make ur life worse because of it. Just do the best of it, have fun, do whatever you like.
thats how i see life. had depression issues for over 2 years, im feeling very good now, even though i know we are useless :D
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I wasn't going to write something as I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment on depression and stuff like that
But then I read your fan page and you should just quit sc2 If you dont care about anymore, I think you are being hypocritical here and that post was basically saying it all
You are around here since forever and therefore you have quite a lot credit (rightfully so) but you should just retire I guess
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Everything in life passes... You should check out some Ayn Rand, be more selfish and secure you own happiness!
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When you become a parent and start to see the world through your child's eyes, suddenly life becomes full of meaning and purpose.
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Are our bodies not just complex chemical reactions that we do not control, and thus all of our actions are predetermined in some way, yet unpredictable? Even our reflections on such a thing are the result of all of the chemical reactions preceding those thoughts, and the understand we gain will have been predetermined by the reactants and environment of the reaction. I can really connect with what you are saying about how it all boils down to irrationality.
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The answer is very simple : the only purpose of life is to worship our Lord.
My 2 cents.
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Dealt with this my whole life, depression isn't about being "sad" it's about how a chemical imbalance in your brain makes you unable to function as you normally would. Some people are predisposed to this condition, while other factors like education and religion (lack there-of) can augment it. Honestly Tyler, the reason to live is truly about being happy, though for those who can't find what makes them happy the reason is moot. The cure to all of this is, surprisingly, having kids. So go through life, do what you like, but when time comes when you start talking family and the "what now?" question in your relationship, just know that whatever your conception of family life is now, it's going to be completely inaccurate compared to the real thing no matter how well developed you think your concept is. Hang in there!
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On October 11 2012 02:09 Samhax wrote:
The answer is very simple : the only purpose of life is to worship our Lord.
My 2 cents.
Created by an all powerful being solely to grovel at his feet? Now THAT'S depressing. I'm sure she he it couldn't be so shallow.
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The good thing about depression? It ends. Not permanently, of course. But the downers are periods. Maybe long periods. Longer than the ups. More frequent than the ups. That spark'll wake up again, fire you up, send you into a frenzy of energy and creativity. For a while, at least. It'll end, of course. It always ends. But so will the depression. Again.
Purpose. That's what I've been imagining I've been missing for long. A reason to pursue my goals. A reason to hone my skill. Some sort of heart-felt, pure desire to improve, to use my incredible talents and my intellect. And I do.
Then it ends.
Then I think - maybe this is self-inflicted? Am I just a whiny bitch, a product of being raised in a safe, peaceful time, with such comfort and stability around me? Am I wasting my chances in life because I lack the self-motivation, the self-discipline to go through with my desires? I mean, look around you - there's so many people, so incredibly passionate, pursuing their goals, whatever they may be. Day after day, week after week, month after month. Music, art, fitness, studies, jobs.
Friends. Life. Love.
Then I think - maybe I'm simply lacking a purpose?
Before, I thought I needed a girlfriend. Someone to connect me emotionally. That didn't help.
Then, I thought it was an education, a carreer potential. That didn't help.
Nowadays, I'm thinking I need a child. A wife. A family. Surely, that must force me to do what I need to, right? To give me purpose?
What if that doesn't help?
Then the depression ends. Again. The ups come. Again.
I feel you, Nony. I really do.
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EPT
