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Hey TL~ I'm here writing about a subject that I don't know much about. I was hoping to get some opinions on all these up-and-coming Zerg players. A lot of them have quite a bit of hype, despite lack of tournament results. We've seen plenty of hyped zergs like IMTrue just fall off the scene, and I'm looking for opinions on who will last and who will not.
Startale_Life: I think he can make it, partly because he's so young. He's now on a team where he can work out the kinks in his ZvP. I still believe (somewhat naively) that he's the best player in Korea in the mirror. From what I've been told, the builds Leenock used against him were Life's own, which surprised Life to some degree. I think he'll become a Code S mainstay within the next year.
SlayerS'CoCa: He ought to make it back soon enough, right? With all these zergs, he needs to work on his ZvZ a little.
Terius: Nooooooo Terius T_T
TSLSymbol: Will he stay around?????//???///??questionmark I think he needs a few season to get acclimated....
TSLShine: Someone please tell me more about him :O
FXOTheBest: About him—hey wait how did he get in here
TSLHyuN: For a long time I thought he was overrated. I still do, to some degree, but it's clear that he's blossomed into a really great zerg. I haven't watched enough of his games to say much about him, though. Do you all think he'll stick around? I'm tempted to call him most likely to walk the Royal Road next season.
Anyway sorry for sounding so chobo but I think the dynamics here are interesting. I think it would be somewhat improbable for every single one of these players to become established.
 
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Coca is more like a zerg version of puzzle
Shine is an enigma :D
I'm not so sure about Life... IMO he's going to be similar to coca/lucky/curious level
Hyun+ByuL i would watch out for :D
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Here's what I think: For the early part of SC2, Nestea was the #1 Zerg. He ruled the GSL, and while he didn't get far in foreign tournaments, being the first player to win 3 GSL titles and winning his 3rd title without dropping a game (there was extensive talk of bonjwa then).
But as the fall of 2011 came around, Nestea's position was challenged by the up and comer DRG, who was a GSTL hero and very strong contender for title of best Zerg. DRG may not be as accomplished in the GSL as Nestea yet, but he has proven to be more versatile, excelling in teamleagues, GSL and foreign tournaments. DRG is the best Zerg right now.
Now why did I talk about Nestea and DRG in a topic about up and coming Zergs? To set a comparison. For several months, these two were the "swarm leaders", and everyone else was below. For example, Leenock in the fall of 2011 had a great series of tournaments (winning Providence and getting 2nd at GSL), and people were getting hyped about him being the next "swarm leader". But no offense to Leenock, but his performance in 2012 has been lackluster, and it seems that his great results in late 2011 might have been a flash in the pan (but maybe he will come back to kick ass, who knows?).
Symbol is playing great right now, but he reminds me somewhat of Leenock in late 2011. Incredible results, very impressive, but he needs to continue playing well if he wants to be put next to names like DRG or Nestea. His momentum was cut by his elimination in the OSL and GSL recently, but he is still in Code S and I look forward to seeing how he does next season. For me, the question is will Symbol become a late-2011 Leenock or a lasting Zerg powerhouse like Nestea or DRG?
Life is a very strong player. I know that the OP is a big Life fan, and who can blame him? The kid is good, and joining Startale will hopefully give him more opportunities. However, OP probably knows more about Life than I, so I can't add too much to the discussion.
Coca was one of the solid Zergs of summer 2011 and fall 2011. Two Ro8 appearances in Code S, 2nd at MLG Raleigh, and a 100% GSL ZvP record. Back then, he suffered from lackluster ZvT, but now it seems that his ZvT looks better than his ZvP. Ever since getting back, Coca has been inconsistent. He's shown great play, but other times his play has been frustrating. He still hasn't found a way back into the GSL, but let's see how his OSL run is (tough group, faces MC first round). There is talent and potential, but inconsistency also.
I don't know too much about the TSL Zergs. And I also just realized I rambled a massive wall of text while at work. :|
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All I know is that from that list it wont be HyuN, love the guy a lot as an MBC fan and he is good sure, but he never showed signs of beating mediocrity and I don't see it happening any time soon
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
Hyun I still am not fully impressed with. He the exact same problems that he's had for ages, without any real progress. His macro is arguably the best in the world of any race, at any given time he will just have more units that other players.
Despite that, everything else is just not there. His micro never shines, he seems to take almost no regard for positioning, and his go to composition is mass banelings, which is fun to watch, but gets shutdown by top defensive players.
People seem to be a bit nuts on BW player hype (I can't be the only who remembers this community go fucking nuts for ForGG, who everyone seems to have conveniently forgotten about after the full retard level hype he got) and I'd actually love to be proven wrong for Hyun, cause he's great to watch, but imo, Hyun isn't top level right now.
Plus he played DAT ZvZ vs Forsen at Dreamhack stockholm. You can't forget that kinda stuff quickly, it stays in your head.
The LR at the time for reference:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331096¤tpage=50
Also people should read that thread, fun times for all involved (except for Forsen)
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On July 19 2012 10:40 MCDayC wrote:Hyun I still am not fully impressed with. He the exact same problems that he's had for ages, without any real progress. His macro is arguably the best in the world of any race, at any given time he will just have more units that other players. Despite that, everything else is just not there. His micro never shines, he seems to take almost no regard for positioning, and his go to composition is mass banelings, which is fun to watch, but gets shutdown by top defensive players. People seem to be a bit nuts on BW player hype (I can't be the only who remembers this community go fucking nuts for ForGG, who everyone seems to have conveniently forgotten about after the full retard level hype he got) and I'd actually love to be proven wrong for Hyun, cause he's great to watch, but imo, Hyun isn't top level right now. Plus he played DAT ZvZ vs Forsen at Dreamhack stockholm. You can't forget that kinda stuff quickly, it stays in your head. The LR at the time for reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331096¤tpage=50Also people should read that thread, fun times for all involved (except for Forsen)
I think this post sums up that game perfectly.
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Hyun seems to be getting better every time I see him, will he finally break out? Who knows, he made it from Code B to Code A round 3 this season 2-0ing Zenio and Life, he will play against Genius for a Code S spot. If he wins that series convincingly I will be looking at him as the real deal.
I don't believe that you can say " oh this player was mediocre in Brood War so I don't think he will ever get any better " it doesn't work that way.
MC looked ( and was ) mediocre in Brood War, now he's the highest earning player, highest earning Protoss player by 240,000$. I mean just look at this shit. And the only Protoss GSL champion so far.
Life, on the other hand appears like a flash in the pan Zerg to me, going on a short streak in GSTL just after Zerg was buffed, we'll see if he can get through the up/down matches. To be fair to him though his GSTL run was cut short by his team being eliminated early, so maybe he could have done better.
I think Symbol is here to stay, he looks like a top 3 Zerg along with Stephano and Dongraegu when he plays his best. His confidence may be shattered losing to Seed in GSL after being up 2-0 and losing in the Dual Tournament in OSL, though. We'll have to see how that affects his play in the next GSL season.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
On July 19 2012 12:16 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 10:40 MCDayC wrote:Hyun I still am not fully impressed with. He the exact same problems that he's had for ages, without any real progress. His macro is arguably the best in the world of any race, at any given time he will just have more units that other players. Despite that, everything else is just not there. His micro never shines, he seems to take almost no regard for positioning, and his go to composition is mass banelings, which is fun to watch, but gets shutdown by top defensive players. People seem to be a bit nuts on BW player hype (I can't be the only who remembers this community go fucking nuts for ForGG, who everyone seems to have conveniently forgotten about after the full retard level hype he got) and I'd actually love to be proven wrong for Hyun, cause he's great to watch, but imo, Hyun isn't top level right now. Plus he played DAT ZvZ vs Forsen at Dreamhack stockholm. You can't forget that kinda stuff quickly, it stays in your head. The LR at the time for reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331096¤tpage=50Also people should read that thread, fun times for all involved (except for Forsen) I think this post sums up that game perfectly. -- Hyun seems to be getting better every time I see him, will he finally break out? Who knows, he made it from Code B to Code A round 3 this season 2-0ing Zenio and Life ( Sniper), he will play against Genius for a Code S spot. If he wins that series convincingly I will be looking at him as the real deal. I don't believe that you can say " oh this player was mediocre in Brood War so I don't think he will ever get any better " it doesn't work that way. MC looked ( and was ) mediocre in Brood War, now he's the highest earning player, highest earning Protoss player by 240,000$. I mean just look at this shit. And the only Protoss GSL champion so far. Life, on the other hand appears like a flash in the pan Zerg to me, going on a short streak in GSTL just after Zerg was buffed, we'll see if he can get through the up/down matches. To be fair to him though his GSTL run was cut short by his team being eliminated early, so maybe he could have done better. I think Symbol is here to stay, he looks like a top 3 Zerg along with Stephano and Dongraegu when he plays his best. His confidence may be shattered losing to Seed in GSL after being up 2-0 and losing in the Dual Tournament in OSL, though. We'll have to see how that affects his play in the next GSL season.
I'd be the last person to say that "this person was mediocre in Broo War" etc, I'm saying the reverse, that the BW hype for ForGG and Hyun is can be misplaced, cause as we saw in ForGG, everyone, EVERYONE, EVERYONE (bar me cause I'm a boss ^_^ ) was hyping him up to no end, and nothing has come from it.
Oh, I see!!
No doubt that Hyun has improved, but to me not like top Zergs, tournament to tournament you see top Zergs like DRG, Stephano and even Nestea adapt and change builds and game plans, whereas to me for Hyun, there can months apart in his play, and the only change to me seems to be: "well, he's a bit less suicidal with his units", and in the end he would still lose in the same way as before, just being a bit more effective along with way.
I just don't see Hyun being quite a top contender.
I'm still completely undecided about Life, lol, I wish I could just watch all of his games in a row and make up my mind on him.
Also, I thought me and Asha's simultaneous posts were the best on that thread, especially before Asha wrote the second line:
On April 21 2012 23:28 Asha` wrote:
This is the worst ZvZ in the history of man
Or best, depending on why you're watching.
On April 21 2012 23:28 MCDayC wrote:
This is the greatest ZvZ ever played.
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On July 19 2012 12:50 MCDayC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 12:16 Dodgin wrote:On July 19 2012 10:40 MCDayC wrote:Hyun I still am not fully impressed with. He the exact same problems that he's had for ages, without any real progress. His macro is arguably the best in the world of any race, at any given time he will just have more units that other players. Despite that, everything else is just not there. His micro never shines, he seems to take almost no regard for positioning, and his go to composition is mass banelings, which is fun to watch, but gets shutdown by top defensive players. People seem to be a bit nuts on BW player hype (I can't be the only who remembers this community go fucking nuts for ForGG, who everyone seems to have conveniently forgotten about after the full retard level hype he got) and I'd actually love to be proven wrong for Hyun, cause he's great to watch, but imo, Hyun isn't top level right now. Plus he played DAT ZvZ vs Forsen at Dreamhack stockholm. You can't forget that kinda stuff quickly, it stays in your head. The LR at the time for reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331096¤tpage=50Also people should read that thread, fun times for all involved (except for Forsen) I think this post sums up that game perfectly. -- Hyun seems to be getting better every time I see him, will he finally break out? Who knows, he made it from Code B to Code A round 3 this season 2-0ing Zenio and Life ( Sniper), he will play against Genius for a Code S spot. If he wins that series convincingly I will be looking at him as the real deal. I don't believe that you can say " oh this player was mediocre in Brood War so I don't think he will ever get any better " it doesn't work that way. MC looked ( and was ) mediocre in Brood War, now he's the highest earning player, highest earning Protoss player by 240,000$. I mean just look at this shit. And the only Protoss GSL champion so far. Life, on the other hand appears like a flash in the pan Zerg to me, going on a short streak in GSTL just after Zerg was buffed, we'll see if he can get through the up/down matches. To be fair to him though his GSTL run was cut short by his team being eliminated early, so maybe he could have done better. I think Symbol is here to stay, he looks like a top 3 Zerg along with Stephano and Dongraegu when he plays his best. His confidence may be shattered losing to Seed in GSL after being up 2-0 and losing in the Dual Tournament in OSL, though. We'll have to see how that affects his play in the next GSL season. I'd be the last person to say that "this person was mediocre in Broo War" etc, I'm saying the reverse, that the BW hype for ForGG and Hyun is can be misplaced, cause as we saw in ForGG, everyone, EVERYONE, EVERYONE (bar me cause I'm a boss ^_^ ) was hyping him up to no end, and nothing has come from it. No doubt that Hyun has improved, but to me not like top Zergs, tournament to tournament you see top Zergs like DRG, Stephano and even Nestea adapt and change builds and game plans, whereas to me for Hyun, there can months apart in his play, and the only change to me seems to be: "well, he's a bit less suicidal with his units", and in the end he would still lose in the same way as before, just being a bit more effective along with way. I just don't see Hyun being quite a top contender. I'm still completely undecided about Life, lol, I wish I could just watch all of his games in a row and make up my mind on him.
The part about Hyun was in response to this :
On July 19 2012 10:36 Lyter wrote:
All I know is that from that list it wont be HyuN, love the guy a lot as an MBC fan and he is good sure, but he never showed signs of beating mediocrity and I don't see it happening any time soon
I should have included the quote in my post, sorry about that!
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About Life being a flash in the pan, I think all his online tournament results are more important than his GSTL streak.
Thanks for all the input on Hyun~
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The difference between HyuN and MC though to the guy a couple posts above, is that MC was a rookie, newly promoted into the A-team, he didn't play much, and rookies don't just show up and start winning proleague games, it takes a while for them to get to that level. HyuN wasn't a rookie, he's been around a while, he was just meh the whole time though.
I'd love to be proven wrong though
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I'm kind of sad how bad symbol has done in the GSL. Some really mediocre results, when lots of people thought he was going to at least get top 4. CoCa doesn't have a good chance of becoming top code s again, but I definitely think it's possible.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Can't believee Hyun is actually considered good now.
That guy blew in BW.
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On July 20 2012 02:16 Roffles wrote:
Can't believee Hyun is actually considered good now.
That guy blew in BW.
Yeah it's really surprising. Hes like one of the only bad bw pros to be good at sc2.
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He wasn't that bad either -_-
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United States10328 Posts
On July 20 2012 02:16 Roffles wrote:
Can't believee Hyun is actually considered good now.
That guy blew in BW.
what, he was an A-team regular, best Zerg on his team, made some individual league group stages...
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On July 20 2012 04:02 ]343[ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 02:16 Roffles wrote:
Can't believee Hyun is actually considered good now.
That guy blew in BW. what, he was an A-team regular, best Zerg on his team, made some individual league group stages...
And still awful.
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EPT
