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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On June 18 2012 07:43 mcimba42 wrote: it has been pretty long and people still don't know how featured blogs work? Oh, ok. I'm going to assume it's because of it's clearly satirical nature. | ||
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Sadist
United States7244 Posts
On June 18 2012 07:47 blade55555 wrote: tvz was the same way though in bw for example. Terran always had that marine timing they would do and it would force zergs to make lings or creep colonies to make them into sunkens. Terran was always on the attack, if he wasn't zerg would be just the same as in sc2 with defiler/ultra/ling and a lot more of it then if terran sat back with bio and did nothing. Mech was a different story obviously, but same with sc2 if you go mech you don't push early like you do with bio. If you are going to go bio yes you have to put pressure or at least force units. I have found terrans doing a MM timing but not committing to be the most effective. Just forcing zerg to make units and then pulling back (unless you see you can kill him or something) is very effective. TvZ outside of korea was a nightmare in BW except for idra......so ;D SC2 is turning into BW where the game is going to be balanced around the top korean terrans (maps in bw, patches in sc2) and its going to make the race unplayable for pretty much everyone else. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
On June 18 2012 07:47 Jerubaal wrote: Oh, ok. I'm going to assume it's because of it's clearly satirical nature. Or you could assume that they're chronologically ordered. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On June 18 2012 07:49 Sadist wrote: TvZ outside of korea was a nightmare in BW except for idra......so ;D SC2 is turning into BW where the game is going to be balanced around the top korean terrans (maps in bw, patches in sc2) and its going to make the race unplayable for pretty much everyone else. Well the game should be balanced at the highest levels, it might make it hard for foreign terrans to be good but this has been the case even when terran was op. Foreign terrans have never really (except a select few!) been able to do well in tournaments. Most terran tournament wins were korean terrans. I do think it's going to go downt hat path, terran is really strong if you have the apm, multi tasking, macro, etc but at the same time hardest to get really good with due to having to be good at all that. Also I didn't know that terrans outside of korea in bw struggled as well, thanks for letting me know that is actually interesting to know. I didn't start following bw till june of 09 and was mainly proleague until TSL2, but I don't remember how foreign terrans did or anything. Again I want to state I do agree zvt is zerg favored, but it's not impossible especially at lower levels, at higher levels it's an issue but at lower levels it's most likely you not balance that is why you are losing. | ||
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Sadist
United States7244 Posts
On June 18 2012 07:51 blade55555 wrote: Well the game should be balanced at the highest levels, it might make it hard for foreign terrans to be good but this has been the case even when terran was op. Foreign terrans have never really (except a select few!) been able to do well in tournaments. Most terran tournament wins were korean terrans. I do think it's going to go downt hat path, terran is really strong if you have the apm, multi tasking, macro, etc but at the same time hardest to get really good with due to having to be good at all that. Again I want to state I do agree zvt is zerg favored, but it's not impossible especially at lower levels, at higher levels it's an issue but at lower levels it's most likely you not balance that is why you are losing. I guess, do you think its issue if to win as terran you have to be 10x better than your opponent? I think that's a problem as already mentioned in the blog. IMO thats pretty bullshit and makes the game not fun/enjoyable to play. Theres tons of situations in sc2 where as terran you can lose the game in a split second but you cant win it. Say TVP, you have to beat 3-4 warpins of the P army to win, but if you lose your army once its pretty much over. thats kinda bullshit. | ||
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
On June 18 2012 07:51 blade55555 wrote: Again I want to state I do agree zvt is zerg favored, but it's not impossible especially at lower levels, at higher levels it's an issue but at lower levels it's most likely you not balance that is why you are losing. I agree 100%, in fact TvZ is my best MU. But as to the higher levels, I'm just getting frustrated seeing TvZ after TvZ in tournaments end with melty green marines and three bases mined out. | ||
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RaiKageRyu
Canada4773 Posts
Why did Blizzard buff Zerg last patch? TvZ was already agreed upon as the MOST balanced matchup back then and now it's right up there with TvP as the worse matchups. | ||
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t.Swift
United States47 Posts
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sieksdekciw
240 Posts
On June 18 2012 07:14 LuckyFool wrote: TvZ is basically unwatchable and unplayable in the current state of sc2. It's a joke of a matchup now. How can you say that. Terran just has to have perfect splits, never make mistakes, have about 3 times better mechanics and multitasking than the zerg, and it might be a close game. Don't you like challenges? I, for one, am a high masters player in EU. I haven't won a single TvZ in 3 months that the zerg did not play outright stupidly or doesn't float 2000 minerals, which apparently is something common for masters zerg players.Also, if he did not notice the medivac that went through 3 overlords before going to his base, I might do some damage. For the last 3 months my winrate vZ is about 20%, vs P is about 33% and vs T about 84% with overall win rate about 50% I love playing vs Z and toss though as when I win I feel like a champ (although probably it's my opponent's mistake to let my pesky race win). Anyway, I liked your wall of a post text and don't worry, juggernauts like MVP and MKP will still beat tosses and zergs even when David Kim continues nerfing the shit out of terran for no reason but some secret pact with Idra and Naniwa. Korean juggernaut terrans will prevail no matter the odds. Always! As for us, the ordinary players, I guess it doesn't hurt playing some ladder. We just have to learn to lose almost all the time and it will all be fine. | ||
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KonohaFlash
Canada1590 Posts
On June 18 2012 07:34 blade55555 wrote: No terrans can get ghosts and lately I have been seeing ghosts again but not mass ton and it's used to emp/snipe infestors. infestors are what make the broodlord army so strong, if you can get rid of the infestors or take out the energy the broodlords aren't so scary anymore. I have been seeing it on korea anyway lately and I imagine eventually terrans will realize that ghosts are still good you only need 3-5 again just to get rid emp/snipe infestors before engaging. Since terrans have tech labs anyway it's not like they have to go out of their way, instead of making 3-5 marauders you make 3-5 ghosts one time. I have found it a lot stronger then not getting them (I still think zvt is zerg favored, but not as bad as some people are saying). Dreamhack and GSTL would like to have a word with you!  | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10341 Posts
Oh hey, I found it http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=101696 | ||
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Hawk2
United States229 Posts
It's late game that's the problem. Most Code S Terrans with the exception of Polt play to win the game in the early to mid-game because of how bad TvZ is in the late game. Fix snipe, that's my balance suggestion. | ||
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Torenhire
United States11681 Posts
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Steel
Japan2283 Posts
Otherwise I agree with you. Zerg is rather favored in TvZ right now...at least from my perspective in mid masters. The solution? I'm really not sure, because Zerg is pretty helpless against protoss right now. The only thing that works in terms of timings is the Stephano style roach max, which is pretty all in. Otherwise it's Broodlords, but Protoss can counter them very effectively with stalkers/mothership/archon. My point is that perhaps Terran have to figure TvZ out, because simply nerfing Zerg just makes it harder for them to deal with Protoss. If you don't want to play Mech you could experiment with aggressive thirds and then laying down the pressure while taking your fourth and gearing up for the late game. Marineking has a lot of success with this and a lot of maps (Ohana and Antiga specifically... and also Cloud Kingdom comes to mind. Maybe the new map? ) In any case, the main issue at hand is that there needs to be a huge shift in style by T while Z plays like they have always played. In my opinion this is bad oversight and game design by Blizzard but there is not much we can do about that. Good Luck and stay strong, all races had dark times. | ||
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On June 18 2012 07:58 KonohaFlash wrote: Dreamhack and GSTL would like to have a word with you! Well I am not going to count dreamhack as there aren't that many korean terrans (who are way better then foreign terrans sad truth but truth non the less xD, foreign terrans have always been a tier below). But also as with any new patch the race that gets it is going to look super good for 2-4 weeks. I remember in an MLG when rax before supply depo got changed to have to get supply depo vs rax. Idra won that mlg (I think that was the mlg with that patch?). Zergs did very well, terrans said they would never be able to win tvz again because you can't play macro. This was obviously disproven. Now I was surprised at the queen buff to, I agreed with the overlord buff but the queen buff was really random. I do think right now obviously zerg is hardcore favored zvt, is it still going to be the same in 2 weeks? Maybe, maybe not. I have tried to not think about balance when another patch goes through since zerg got the infestor nerf or w/e. I remember being one of those zergs who said with the infestor nerf that zerg will never beat protoss and stuff like that. I was obviously proven and many others hardcore wrong. I do imagine this will be reverted unless terrans figure something out which could happen, but I imagine it'll be reverted. Time will tell. On June 18 2012 08:03 yeint wrote: Steel, wouldn't a snipe un-nerf be a perfect solution? It wouldn't affect any of the other TvX matchups at all, and it would not require nerfing the Z directly. If snipe was un-nerfed then zvt would go back to how it was moving back then. Terran would go bio and sit back, get a ton of ghosts and snipe every high tier zerg unit thus making bl/ultra useless again. I don't know the best way to help terran out late game, but if snipe goes as strong as it was last game then it's going to go back to mass ghost and win. | ||
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Sadist
United States7244 Posts
On June 18 2012 07:57 sieksdekciw wrote: How can you say that. Terran just has to have perfect splits, never make mistakes, have about 3 times better mechanics and multitasking than the zerg, and it might be a close game. Don't you like challenges? I, for one, am a high masters player in EU. I haven't won a single TvZ in 3 months that the zerg did not play outright stupidly or doesn't float 2000 minerals, which apparently is something common for masters zerg players.Also, if he did not notice the medivac that went through 3 overlords before going to his base, I might do some damage. For the last 3 months my winrate vZ is about 20%, vs P is about 33% and vs T about 84% with overall win rate about 50% I love playing vs Z and toss though as when I win I feel like a champ (although probably it's my opponent's mistake to let my pesky race win). Anyway, I liked your wall of a post text and don't worry, juggernauts like MVP and MKP will still beat tosses and zergs even when David Kim continues nerfing the shit out of terran for no reason but some secret pact with Idra and Naniwa. Korean juggernaut terrans will prevail no matter the odds. Always! As for us, the ordinary players, I guess it doesn't hurt playing some ladder. We just have to learn to lose almost all the time and it will all be fine. I agree with all of this rofl. When I win it vs P and Z it doesn't even feel good. I load up the replay and find out I was spending great and felt like I was microing fine and it turns out I only won because the Z or P had like 2k minerals or no upgrades or something ;\ | ||
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Xyik
Canada728 Posts
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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