EPTSo why do people hate Diablo 3 again? - Page 4
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
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Xiron
Germany1233 Posts
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
Also, I agree with your point on groups, I find it much easier to solo than team play. Soloing EXP grind is faster, it's easier... just boring as hell though. | ||
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Xiron
Germany1233 Posts
On June 06 2012 02:41 dRaW wrote: The problem I have with the COMPLETE RANDOMIZATION of item is that is makes most of the items for specified class completely redundant and pointless so why even include those stats? Also there are many weird things like Lifesteal and Life on Hit, lifesteal is reduced heavily in inferno and LoH is not, seems like they really need to patch up a few things like that as well since it doesn't keep much consistency. Also, I agree with your point on groups, I find it much easier to solo than team play. Soloing EXP grind is faster, it's easier... just boring as hell though. On lifesteal vs. loh: If lifesteal wasn't nerfed, it would be broken as fuck. A nicely equipped demon hunter can crit for 300k, meaning wich 10% ls, he'd get 30k life, meaning he'd be fucking invincible. LoH on the other hand, he might get 5k loh at most, being a great stat, yet not complete over the top. | ||
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HardlyNever
United States1258 Posts
Just like anything else the haters/complainers are more vocal and seem to have more time on their hands than the people who like the game (maybe because the people who like the game are actually playing it, I dunno). People rarely go out of their way to praise, but will always go out of their way to complain. Welcome to humanity. Edit: Since everyone else is doing it, I might as well say the few things I really DO have a problem with: 1. The extreme imbalance of classes in inferno. This was to be expected, and I knew starting with a melee class would be harder, but right now it is just too extreme. The rest of the difficulties were fine, though, and I actually felt a little bit stronger than the range classes through most of the game. Things like this always take time to balance, give Blizzard some time. 2. Inferno is basically ONLY solo-able beyond act 2. I have a lot of friends playing this game and most of us made it up to inferno together. However, after early act 2, it is really hard to play in groups, even a group of 2, because the damage increase is so ridiculous that everyone just gets 1 shot by everything, so you are all just constantly running back. Inferno scales too hard for coop play, especially when playing a melee class. I still really enjoy the game and my expectations have been 95% fulfilled I'd say. I know they will get inferno right, it will just take time. | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
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PraefektMotus
Germany129 Posts
1. The Auction House ruined the core mechanic of game. Diablo is a hack 'n' slay that revolves around killing demons, equipping items, killing more dangerous demons, equipping better items and so on. The items are random, both their chance to drop and some of their stats. What keeps you playing is the carrot on the fishing pole, i. e. a possibly cool item after a kill. You will most likely not get it, but you know you have a very slight chance of finding something awesome if you just kill Lazarus one more time. The AH completely demolishes this formula. Since millions of people pour their loot into the AH, Blizzard had to drastically reduce the chances to get a decent item from minuscule to basically nothing or the market would be flooded with them. What happens is that the character makes the greatest leaps of power not by playing the game, but using this program outside the game. It's extremely unrewarding, it's unexciting, and it breaks immersion. I bought a new weapon for my monk in the AH and my DPS went from 3800 to 6800. By paying gold. Yeah, that sounds like fun. 2. Items are bland. You just plain never find anything good or interesting. Items are boring with faceless stats and DPS increases. The Undead Crown had exactly one stat, 5% Life Stealing. That was it, one stat that was rare in the game. It changed the way you played a warrior, it had flavor, it was useful, it was unique in the true sense of the word. In 60 hours of D3, I have not gotten a single interesting item. This is just poor design. Don't even get me started on how the massively random numbers on items make them ugly and inelegant. 3. Since I can't commit to anything, I don't feel attached to my character. Everything you have and do in this game is disposable. Equipment changes, but that's fine, that's how these games work. But since there are no custom attributes or skills, everything in the game can be changed on a whim. This also means that everything is incredibly arbitrary. I don't feel any connection to "my" character at all. 4. Forced online has no benefit for the customer. So Blizzard wanted a cut of item sales and invented the AH. In order to make the biggest profit possible, they force everyone to be online at any time. The customer doesn't benefit at all from this. He is denied from playing a single player game when servers are down. He needs to have an internet connection at all times. He suffers from lag. He never gets good loot because of the AH. There is NO reason there could not have been a simple single player option where you can just play the game offline with a character that can't be used online. Blizzard forced an economic decision on the player without benefitting him from it, and that is an absolute first from Blizzard aside from no LAN in SC2. It leaves a really bad taste that worries me about Blizzard's future decisions. 5. The story and their characters, especially the villains, are badly presented. To some people, myself included, lore and story matters. I have the Book of Cain and it's an amazing piece of literature, rich with cool ideas and stories. The Diablo franchise comprises much, much more than "Kill the red dude with the spikes". In Diablo 3, nothing feels threatening at all. (Belial is the only notable exception to this.) Heck, not even your damn followers are impressed by any of the Evils. Maghda, Azmodan and Diablo talk WAY too much and sound like Looney Tunes villains. Even poor good ol' Butcher can't open his door himself, Maghda has to let him out while introducing him like some wrestler. And then he goes "vegetable bad, meat good". Good Lord, what a caricature. And then we get the one single cool NPC in this game, Zoltun Kulle, Blizzard's first decent jab at a character with great humor since Kerrigan in SC1. And swiftly proceed to kill him within one act while trash talking moron Covetous Shen gets to stick around. Gah. The sad thing is that these are all conscious design decisions by Blizzard. They aren't mistakes that you can patch if given enough time. They WANTED it to be like this. Don't get me wrong, for the first 40 hours, I enjoyed this game and I'm glad I bought it. Act 4 alone was worth it, I dig the architecture. It was kinda fun, but then I noticed that I lost interest in the game and tried to investigate why. Those are the main reasons I came up with. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
1. Come on now. Millions of people playing on Americas (not a 5 year old dead game that's split into USW, USE and so forth). What do you expect? People to set up thousands of game modes that you browse through or spammed trade chat channels? Please, that's just annoying and unnecessary and would just move everyone to d2jsp. 2. This game has lifesteal as well. It's missing runewords and such, but they didn't "remove it" they just didn't add it in yet so they could add it in the next expansion. Marketing scheme. Sucks, but oh well, will just make the expansion that much more hyped. 3. Perhaps that's true, but look at the other side. It's totally customizable, and it's not just "another character". In d2 I'd have like 9 characters. This is your ONE character and it's yours and you've put hours into it from day 1. 4. Single player is gone, can't say too much about it since that was never my thing. But it's not like you got anything good from d2 let's be honest, at least for actual good gear with no MF. I still say it's enough to get through hell. If you want to get through inferno on your own tough luck, there's no way you'd get through uber tristram on your own anyways. 5. I won't say anything about that since I'll be honest, I didn't even pay attention to it. I thought it was a bit cliche though at some points. | ||
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PraefektMotus
Germany129 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:13 Itsmedudeman wrote: I can understand some of your complaints, but I honestly don't think they're as big of a deal as you make it out to be. 1. Come on now. Millions of people playing on Americas (not a 5 year old dead game that's split into USW, USE and so forth). What do you expect? People to set up thousands of game modes that you browse through or spammed trade chat channels? Please, that's just annoying and unnecessary and would just move everyone to d2jsp. That's not the problem. The problem is that the existence of the AH forces terrible loot on everybody, even people that don't want to use it. A game isn't some spreadsheet to me where I get power by paying currency, a game is an environment in which I want to use what I find. Again, biggest immersion breaker ever. 2. This game has lifesteal as well. It's missing runewords and such, but they didn't "remove it" they just didn't add it in yet so they could add it in the next expansion. Marketing scheme. Sucks, but oh well, will just make the expansion that much more hyped. Life Stealing was just an example for a unique item that was a) acquired at a low level, enticing new players into the game, b) simple, elegant and useful, and c) provided a rare stat in a slot that no other head item in the whole game had. You know, "unique". There are no items like that in D3. 3. Perhaps that's true, but look at the other side. It's totally customizable, and it's not just "another character". In d2 I'd have like 9 characters. This is your ONE character and it's yours and you've put hours into it from day 1. Then that is personal choice. I'm a classic RPG gamer, and the way D3 works makes it feel like you're not playing a character, you're leveling an account. Like an FPS with a progression system. I'm absolutely fine with you liking this, but it's not for me. 4. Single player is gone, can't say too much about it since that was never my thing. But it's not like you got anything good from d2 let's be honest, at least for actual good gear with no MF. I still say it's enough to get through hell. If you want to get through inferno on your own tough luck, there's no way you'd get through uber tristram on your own anyways. I think it's very important to talk about subjectivity versus objectivity here. Objectively, you are absolutely right, you usually didn't find good stuff in D2 either. The difference is the subjective feeling that you COULD. In D3, you know there is absolutely nothing to look forward to because you know there's nothing there. You play through the game three times even before entering the late game. So during that period, you'll never have good gear because the AH has stuff from higher level people. At max level, you might find something good, but then again, the items are boring and never change any mechanics. That missing perspective destroyed my motivation to play the game. | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
When we were young, the very idea of a video game was great. It's why people could play such crappy, 1 dimensional games in the late 80s. In order to continue to entice such gamers, there is a necessity for novelty, and for many graphics aren't enough. The jump of gameplay between super mario and mario 64? HUGE. The jump of gameplay between D2 and D3? Basically the same thing... There isn't much for an old player to discover, so it feels like routine. Someone who is experiencing D3 as their first game of this type is going to love it, and someone who just wanted more D2 to play is going to love it, but someone who wanted something interesting and new is going to be disappointed. There is just not much reason for someone to spend 30 hours playing a game they already played for 100s of hours many years ago. Some people can play the same 3d Zelda game console after console, and some people get bored of that and only remember the first new one so fondly. Anyway, Gheed also made a post like this, so I don't know why you wanted to as well. You even tried to copy his format. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On June 06 2012 08:46 Chef wrote: I would not even bother comparing what is in D3 that might have been better in D2. That much I think is insignificant. What is disappointing for many people who have played a lot of Blizzard games, is that the difference between D1 and D2 was immense (in terms of gameplay), and the difference between D3 and D2? Well it's not that vast. All the advancements in technology since D2 are basically being put toward polyginal graphics. When we were young, the very idea of a video game was great. It's why people could play such crappy, 1 dimensional games in the late 80s. In order to continue to entice such gamers, there is a necessity for novelty, and for many graphics aren't enough. The jump of gameplay between super mario and mario 64? HUGE. The jump of gameplay between D2 and D3? Basically the same thing... There isn't much for an old player to discover, so it feels like routine. Someone who is experiencing D3 as their first game of this type is going to love it, and someone who just wanted more D2 to play is going to love it, but someone who wanted something interesting and new is going to be disappointed. There is just not much reason for someone to spend 30 hours playing a game they already played for 100s of hours many years ago. Some people can play the same 3d Zelda game console after console, and some people get bored of that and only remember the first new one so fondly. Anyway, Gheed also made a post like this, so I don't know why you wanted to as well. You even tried to copy his format. Don't know who gheeds is or what his blog was about, but believe it or not, a lot of people list things in order to address their points... so.... What format would I do exactly? And the gameplay difference is huge as far as combat goes. If they change too much then people just bitch that it's not anything like d2 which is what people are already complaining about. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:34 PraefektMotus wrote: That's not the problem. The problem is that the existence of the AH forces terrible loot on everybody, even people that don't want to use it. A game isn't some spreadsheet to me where I get power by paying currency, a game is an environment in which I want to use what I find. Again, biggest immersion breaker ever. Life Stealing was just an example for a unique item that was a) acquired at a low level, enticing new players into the game, b) simple, elegant and useful, and c) provided a rare stat in a slot that no other head item in the whole game had. You know, "unique". There are no items like that in D3. Then that is personal choice. I'm a classic RPG gamer, and the way D3 works makes it feel like you're not playing a character, you're leveling an account. Like an FPS with a progression system. I'm absolutely fine with you liking this, but it's not for me. I think it's very important to talk about subjectivity versus objectivity here. Objectively, you are absolutely right, you usually didn't find good stuff in D2 either. The difference is the subjective feeling that you COULD. In D3, you know there is absolutely nothing to look forward to because you know there's nothing there. You play through the game three times even before entering the late game. So during that period, you'll never have good gear because the AH has stuff from higher level people. At max level, you might find something good, but then again, the items are boring and never change any mechanics. That missing perspective destroyed my motivation to play the game. Well, you seem to be looking at this from a single player point of view, but again, I don't really get what you mean when you say that you could find items that you could use. How is d3 not the same in that respect? Of course they'll be worse than what COULD be on the auction house, but same for d2... It could definitely be worse than what someone else is selling. Every time I played d2 and leveled my character my items would be trash. Just so you now, the chances of finding something like a gryffon's is .00000000001%. I don't think we should at all care about that being able to drop for us running through hell, because chances are it won't. I've found plenty of good items in d3 that I've used. It's just that there's always something better, although I still use like 2 items I've found which are amazingly good. Same for d2 really... it just made it a hell of a lot harder to find it. I played through hell and never found it absolutely necessary to have to buy from the auction house. I bought a weapon sure, just to make things easier, but nothing else, really. I think the biggest difference between d3 and d2 in terms of items is that in d2 you wouldn't need to get your items into a specific build. A lot of items in d3 actually do you have unique stats, but you need other stats to make them work off each other. If you have life on hit, you need attack speed, etc. | ||
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