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You could say I was surprised to hear all the outcry and whine from d3 players after the game's release. On the first day I had a blast. Playing with 3 other friends running through the game for the first time, messing with 50 different skills while leveling up, I thought the leveling system was perfect and well paced. Every level you got something new and you were free to try it out, there was no boredom, and the game was easy enough at that point to do so. Then it gets progressively harder, making you think about your builds, customizing, testing, and all of its free. As far as gameplay goes it's also a much bigger improvement upon d2. You get up to 6 spells, can customize them differently, and the fights are just much more fun as well as challenging.
So what are people complaining about? I'll make a list and reply.
1. The auction house sucks
This is true. I can't really refute that, and I've been frustrated by its incosistency as much as the next guy. However, realize that diablo 3 is a very highly economical game. If you're not farming, you're selling; if you're not selling, you're buying. You have millions of people on the same region selling and buying constantly at the same time. There's no way they could've tested this in the beta, they just had to fix it as they went along. Despite all the bugs, errors, downtime, I'll take that any day 50x over to play across regions with my friends whether they're east coast, west coast, canada, australia, whatever. Meet your old time friend who wants to play? Oops, wrong server, gotta restart all over again in d2!
2. Inferno is too hard
I like this aspect. The game has only been out for 2 weeks. There needs to be some sort of challenge and I look forward to being able to do it as my gear gets gradually better and better. What's the point of getting gear if you can 1 shot everything or you don't die to it anyway? I don't want to hear about how the game is too hard when you're sitting at 500k gold worth of gear. Get back to me with 20 mill in gear. Your stats increase exponentially in this game, not statically.
3. Inferno is too easy
Only through exploits/nerfed stuff in the past. The bosses are a bit easy, but I think belial/diablo are plenty difficult atm. I have no problem with other quest mobs/uniques being easy though. They're meant to be.
4. Class balance sucks
Of course it sucks. Did you really expect end game to be perfectly balanced after the game came out? In either case, they've said they're keeping a watch on it, but I actually hope they don't change too much like they usually do. It just ends up making another class overpowered.
5. Items suck
Some of the legendaries certainly are disappointing, as well as there being no + skill system or anything, but I like how the rares are so different and unique. It lets you build your characters the way you want to for a specific build. So far for wizard I've seen crit/crit dmg, attack speed, melee, etc. Also let me just say that your gear is shit, and it's been 2 weeks. Ever play d2 ladder after 2 weeks? Minus the mass botting how many enigmas are going around? They're unaffordable. As the game goes on 3 mill will be the new 500k I guarantee you.
6. Characters are too cookie cutter
At inferno yeah, although so far all the wizards I see have vastly different builds. They were too in diablo 2 when you were trying to do key runs. Let's see you beat all that shit with any old shit build you made on any old character cause I'd love to see it. Hell, a lot of time you had to make a character from scratch to do so, it just wasn't possible on some. Also, they're working on balance. In a month the builds won't be the same at all, and certain builds need good items as well.
7. Blacksmithing sucks
Lol. Keep thinking that, just makes my mats cheaper. Btw I'm buying a lot of exquisite essences pm me.
I honestly cannot fathom the people who thought diablo 2 was more fun. MFing was so shit and boring it just wasn't worth running. I'll admit it, I ran a bot for a few days, and I got maybe 2 worthwhile items (yeah, shaco's don't count you poor bastards). If you stack too much MF you just get useless shit. My one complaint is that playing with 3-4 people in inferno just sucks. Idk how it'll be in the future, but they need to change the scaling of drops or difficulty so that its worthwhile. I want to play with friends, not single player.All in all, I'll probably be playing for 2 more months before I get bored/have everything, although with the RMAH who knows.
 
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I've only just finished it and dabbled a little in Nightmare, I have to say the only thing that sucks for me is the complete randomness of loot. A barbarian only belt with intelligence? A demon hunter only crossbow with strength?
I wish the loot stats were a little more specific to the actually loot type rather then just fingers crossed.
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Yeah, I don't get that either. The class items outside the offhands seem pretty pointless to me.
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Game is great, people just like to whine and complain.
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On May 29 2012 05:39 Itsmedudeman wrote:
7. Blacksmithing sucks
Lol. Keep thinking that, just makes my mats cheaper. Btw I'm buying a lot of exquisite essences pm me.
Delete from post nao.
I can't wait until commodities are back up. Probably gonna burn a mill or 2 on essences and tears
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I think some people hate it because it's not Diablo 2, just like some people hate SC2 because it's not BW. The rest are mostly just kids feeling entitled to 'something better' because they were born in the 90's. Then there is a small minority of people who actually have a legitimate reason for hating D3 but nobody cares about those people because they are a minority.
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So many topics between here and other frequented sites on whether the game sucks or not. Soooooo many.
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Dude I've seen you around in the wiz discussion forum, yeah wiz4lyfe! *brofist*
I think another problem is that people expect the "fun" to be spoon-fed to them. Too many casuals thinking their measly 500k gear (as you mentioned) should be enough to beat all difficulties. Inferno should be reserved for the elites among elites, not only with good gear but with good sense of what skill combinations work best for particular situations.
Lately I'm having a lot of fun doing inferno Butcher farming with friends, having two monks and a barb tanking for you makes life of a wizzy an easy one =D
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The epicness of getting to lvl 99 is gone.
Personally I don't see the point in keep playing after beating Inferno.
EDIT:No one hates sc2 because it's not BW btw...
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On May 29 2012 06:20 empty.bottle wrote:
The epicness of getting to lvl 99 is gone.
Personally I don't see the point in keep playing after beating Inferno.
EDIT:No one hates sc2 because it's not BW btw...
What is the point of playing after 99 then?
Beating inferno without any of the broken builds that Bliz is nerfing might get you more excited.
And yes, plenty of people hate Sc2 simply because its not BW.
Lists of three are great
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i dont know exactly how pvp is gonna work but for how insanely impossible inferno is gonna be for the casuals, how will they even come close to being able to pvp? in d2, you could have near the top level gear but not neckbeard perfect and still hold your own in duels. it sounds like the gap between the wow guild crossovers and the casual is gonna be too much for fair pvp. thats my biggest concern about the game. d2 for me was about the pvp. go out mf, trade a bit, get 1 more ele gc and go smack around some ww barbs. some of d3 sucks, some of its good. pvp will make or break it for me. maybe if they have tiered battles based on your items or skill or whatever it will be fine. inferno is stupid though. white mobs shouldnt 1 hit you. the difficulty of the inferno bosses im fine with but the mobs not so much
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On May 29 2012 06:35 Disposition1989 wrote:
i dont know exactly how pvp is gonna work but for how insanely impossible inferno is gonna be for the casuals, how will they even come close to being able to pvp? in d2, you could have near the top level gear but not neckbeard perfect and still hold your own in duels. it sounds like the gap between the wow guild crossovers and the casual is gonna be too much for fair pvp. thats my biggest concern about the game. d2 for me was about the pvp. go out mf, trade a bit, get 1 more ele gc and go smack around some ww barbs. some of d3 sucks, some of its good. pvp will make or break it for me. maybe if they have tiered battles based on your items or skill or whatever it will be fine. inferno is stupid though. white mobs shouldnt 1 hit you. the difficulty of the inferno bosses im fine with but the mobs not so much
Prices drop drastically as the game goes on. If you've played right after a ladder reset you'd know this. The gear that was up for 100k-200k a week ago are now like 30k. You can find 30k through just gold found through act 1 on an inferno run.
Pvp was always about gear in diablo 2. You needed tons of gear and you'd get destroyed by someone who had more money. That's just how it is.
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On May 29 2012 06:20 empty.bottle wrote:
The epicness of getting to lvl 99 is gone.
Personally I don't see the point in keep playing after beating Inferno.
EDIT:No one hates sc2 because it's not BW btw...
You do know most of those people were botters right? But I don't really get the epicness of sitting in baalruns 10 hours a day for a month. But I guess apparently some people do.
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On May 29 2012 06:40 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 06:20 empty.bottle wrote:
The epicness of getting to lvl 99 is gone.
Personally I don't see the point in keep playing after beating Inferno.
EDIT:No one hates sc2 because it's not BW btw... You do know most of those people were botters right? But I don't really get the epicness of sitting in baalruns 10 hours a day for a month. But I guess apparently some people do.
Nostalgia makes everything taste better.
Great post btw.
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Well, its low rating. Its simply not good enough for a lot of people, and is the lowest user rated blizz game of all time(gamespot)
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On May 29 2012 06:59 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 06:40 Itsmedudeman wrote:On May 29 2012 06:20 empty.bottle wrote:
The epicness of getting to lvl 99 is gone.
Personally I don't see the point in keep playing after beating Inferno.
EDIT:No one hates sc2 because it's not BW btw... You do know most of those people were botters right? But I don't really get the epicness of sitting in baalruns 10 hours a day for a month. But I guess apparently some people do. Nostalgia makes everything taste better. Great post btw.
well in classic D2 where it takes 50 000 chaos runs to get 99 there was epicness. and Chaos runs require significant cooperation of different classes, kind of like in WoW.
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On May 29 2012 06:20 empty.bottle wrote:
The epicness of getting to lvl 99 is gone.
Personally I don't see the point in keep playing after beating Inferno.
EDIT:No one hates sc2 because it's not BW btw...
then why are we seeing so many threads asking for the return of the lurker? or other units from BW? Or even the countless threads comparing BW vs SC2. There's just no way you can justify your statement there.
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On May 29 2012 07:19 brolaf wrote:
Well, its low rating. Its simply not good enough for a lot of people, and is the lowest user rated blizz game of all time(gamespot)
The graphics need an overhaul, the game simply isn't dark enough
It's been said a lot, but nothing was changed, so it's still true
And that's with my monitor in power saving mode...
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Glad someone else is enjoying the game as much as I am! I'm having a blast, the game has some flaws for sure, but every game does. They're not gamebreaking in my eyes though.
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United States2822 Posts
On May 29 2012 07:19 brolaf wrote:
Well, its low rating. Its simply not good enough for a lot of people, and is the lowest user rated blizz game of all time(gamespot)
Rated unfairly because everyone snap downvoted it while the servers were unstable on launch day, as if they didn't expect unstable servers on launch day or something.
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Story-line sucks. As with SCtoo, It's just dumb. Seems to be new blizzard policy: "make a dumb stories".
Other from that - everything seems to be okayish or good. But the problem is - nothing stands out.
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The awkward moment when everyone realizes they are just farming items to kill more monsters, and the pvp is still not implemented...
wait for it, thats whem the real bitching begins.
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On May 29 2012 09:05 Nonexistent wrote:
The awkward moment when everyone realizes they are just farming items to kill more monsters, and the pvp is still not implemented...
wait for it, thats whem the real bitching begins.
That awkward moment when you realize 1 million gold is worth 10-15 dollars.
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On May 29 2012 08:45 elagrion wrote:
Story-line sucks. As with SCtoo, It's just dumb. Seems to be new blizzard policy: "make a dumb stories".
Other from that - everything seems to be okayish or good. But the problem is - nothing stands out.
Hasn't Blizzard always made dumb stories? I don't remember them all very well, but none stand out to me as really interesting.
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The Max Level is too low and easy to reach, and since you have unlimited access to equip from the AH everything before Max Level Inferno feels like a grind. If blizzard feels the need to dumb down the mechanics this far, why not give the option to create characters on Max Level?
And once you hit max Level, or twice, there is no incentive to keep on playing. Your character is basicly just a "shell" for items, more like something unlocked, since it is the same on every diablo 3 account with a max level char of that class.
And the rush provided by finding a really neat item is kinda totally killed since you can just buy everything you'll ever need to finish the game.
It really has bright childish graphics which kill the atmosphere the series had.
And WHY do you have to be level 50 before you can enter hell, if nightmare is easy enough to finish it on 46??
Don't get me wrong, I do agree that dia3 is a great game. And it provided me with 40+ hours of fun. Ty, and now I will move on, and that is just what I did not expect considering it's predecessors, I mean, it did not even manage to kill the time before torchlight 2. xD
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On May 29 2012 06:34 Catch]22 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 06:20 empty.bottle wrote:
The epicness of getting to lvl 99 is gone.
Personally I don't see the point in keep playing after beating Inferno.
EDIT:No one hates sc2 because it's not BW btw... What is the point of playing after 99 then? Beating inferno without any of the broken builds that Bliz is nerfing might get you more excited. And yes, plenty of people hate Sc2 simply because its not BW. Lists of three are great
There was no point, the thing is getting to lvl 99 took u a lot of time, Pretty sure everyone competent can beat D3 in a month Without playing that much.
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Okay, i'd like to bring up a few points that you havn't mentioned in the op.
First of all the problem with the total randomization of the items is that they are "too" random. You will never in your life get a good drop from inferno that you'll actually use. Instead you will sell the better drops on the AH in order to buy whatever is necessary to progress, which is not as exciting as getting the loot from a incredibly hard bossencounter. It's a very cheap way of getting gear and it doesn't feel rewarding at all.
Secondly, the problem with inferno is not that it is too hard or too easy, rather that the way it scales in difficulty. There is no real challenge to inferno more than having to farm gear to be able to "progress" further into the game. As a demonhunter the only difference is that you'll have to kite longer when the difficulty is increased. This was not the case in diablo 2 where you could find clever ways to beat the content without oneshot mechanics.
Not to mention the lack of social features as chat servers, constant online drm combined with terrible servers and the silly story/dialogue.
Diablo 3 is not a bad game by any means, I just feel that it could've been way better than it currently is. Although i'm still enjoying it a lot=)
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I didnt like it for the following reasons... None of which, for the most part, are listed on your list.
1. Its identical in virtually every way to D2 except a different class skill system
2. The classes are revamps of old classes, nothing new.
3. The story was terrible. Diablo invading heaven was pretty cool, everything else was bland. It was also very short.
4. No PvP, Public chat
In the end it was somewhat inferior to D2, and where it wasnt inferior it was the same, with the exception of a tired crafting system. I Played more than enough D2 to get my fill of this gameplay, it doesnt offer anything new and exciting, so frankly I was pretty bored by the time I hit nightmare.
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The problem I believe is that many of us have spent too much time playing D2. I, like many others, played every through every character to exhaustion. I tried all the different builds I could think of, played online, held D2 LAN parties, you name it. After doing everything I could think of I checked constantly to see when D3 was going to come out, but alas it seemed Blizzard had no intention of ever releasing a third installment. I tried playing copycat games such as titan quest, fate, torchlight, and champions of norath, but none of them ever came close to comparing with D2. So in the years that followed I was forced to alter my gaming habits and I slowly veered away from dungeon crawling type games and moved into FPS and RTS games. By the time D3 finally came out, I had long since evolved past hack and slash games. I went out and bought it for the nostalgic part of me that pays tribute to the frachise that lent so much enjoyment to me and my friends, but in the long run I just couldn't get back into it. D3 isn't a bad game at all, I think people of my generation have just learned to be without games like it. Too little too late I guess.
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You didn't mention that the design (or the whole game actually) is much more childish and doesn't have anything devilish anymire. The horror side has been completely wiped off to appeal to a broader audience.
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On May 29 2012 08:45 elagrion wrote:
Story-line sucks. As with SCtoo, It's just dumb. Seems to be new blizzard policy: "make a dumb stories".
Other from that - everything seems to be okayish or good. But the problem is - nothing stands out.
New policy? Didn't anyone actually pay attention to D2's storyline?
The quest line was "Bad thing here, go fix it. Some bitch in a tower killed people years ago, go kill her. Go find me a book in the jungle".
Main story was "I'm an Angel, but can't be arsed to do anything myself, so I'm going to ask a hobo to do it. Oops, turns out a hobo wasn't a good choice for saving the world, now I have to blow up the Worldstone".
I mean, honestly...doesn't anyone remember that pointless ass named Marius?
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On May 29 2012 09:07 Kanil wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 08:45 elagrion wrote:
Story-line sucks. As with SCtoo, It's just dumb. Seems to be new blizzard policy: "make a dumb stories".
Other from that - everything seems to be okayish or good. But the problem is - nothing stands out. Hasn't Blizzard always made dumb stories? I don't remember them all very well, but none stand out to me as really interesting.
yeah I'm quite confused with this as well... I think the problem is that with starcraft and some of wc3 it isn't forced down your throat as much. Blizzard has always just kind of randomly made decent bits of storyline ect. but the vast majority of it has always been terrible, it just didn't jump up on your screen every few minutes. In wc3 it was normally related to the mission you had to do so it was bearable lol
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People really bitch about Inferno being too hard? lololol. What point would there be if you could just run it over...
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My two problems are to do with Blizzard possibly rushing out the game which is rediculous considering how much time they had and with the unoriginality of the last two bosses. + Show Spoiler +The boss battles against Azmodan and Diablo felt unoriginal, unlike the fight against Belial, where the camera zooms out and the battlefield is taken to another dimension.
The story itself declines in the latter half of the game as well. Act 4 is too short and doesn't feel as epic as it should and the forces of Evil are defeated too easily, despite everyone's fear of Hell united.
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On May 29 2012 11:01 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 09:07 Kanil wrote:On May 29 2012 08:45 elagrion wrote:
Story-line sucks. As with SCtoo, It's just dumb. Seems to be new blizzard policy: "make a dumb stories".
Other from that - everything seems to be okayish or good. But the problem is - nothing stands out. Hasn't Blizzard always made dumb stories? I don't remember them all very well, but none stand out to me as really interesting. yeah I'm quite confused with this as well... I think the problem is that with starcraft and some of wc3 it isn't forced down your throat as much. Blizzard has always just kind of randomly made decent bits of storyline ect. but the vast majority of it has always been terrible, it just didn't jump up on your screen every few minutes. In wc3 it was normally related to the mission you had to do so it was bearable lol
Acts One and Two were fuckin' good though!
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On May 29 2012 11:01 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 09:07 Kanil wrote:On May 29 2012 08:45 elagrion wrote:
Story-line sucks. As with SCtoo, It's just dumb. Seems to be new blizzard policy: "make a dumb stories".
Other from that - everything seems to be okayish or good. But the problem is - nothing stands out. Hasn't Blizzard always made dumb stories? I don't remember them all very well, but none stand out to me as really interesting. yeah I'm quite confused with this as well... I think the problem is that with starcraft and some of wc3 it isn't forced down your throat as much. Blizzard has always just kind of randomly made decent bits of storyline ect. but the vast majority of it has always been terrible, it just didn't jump up on your screen every few minutes. In wc3 it was normally related to the mission you had to do so it was bearable lol
+ Show Spoiler [Story whine] +In terms of story, I feel like D3 compared to other Diablo's is a let-down. The cinematics, I think it's something to do with having the player character talk about the quest, but they disappoint me. A silent protagonist is a good protagonist. Final note on the dialogue, cow king. WTF WHO WROTE THAT CRAP? Easter eggs, cool/awesome, until their made out to be an obvious reference, at which point they immediately suck.
I also loved the random tomes in D1. Somehow, this doesn't do it for me either, perhaps there are just too many unnecessary lore tomes that it dilutes the good ones down or something... I mean, what do I care for what Cain/Leah are writing, or the bestiary? Yet it's lore that pops up and dilutes the story related lore. I want things that make the upcoming monsters seem bad-ass. The Skeleton King was good for this, but the butcher? It doesn't even make sense to have a butcher there until the lore pops up AFTER the fight saying 'oh yeah there's actually shit-tons of these guys in hell, but you only ever see one', and that same thing applies every boss fight that isn't SK/Belial/Azmodin/Diablo. I don't even care that the bosses are easier than the content, they should still get you hyped up. Slightly unrelated to this, those bigass background monsters in the areas between the Seigebreaker and Azmodin would make for an awesome fight
Slightly O/T: SC:BW had one of the best stories I've seen in a video game. I loved the changing inter-factional stuff. Naturally there's quite a few other contenders when I think about it though.
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On May 29 2012 10:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 08:45 elagrion wrote:
Story-line sucks. As with SCtoo, It's just dumb. Seems to be new blizzard policy: "make a dumb stories".
Other from that - everything seems to be okayish or good. But the problem is - nothing stands out. New policy? Didn't anyone actually pay attention to D2's storyline? The quest line was "Bad thing here, go fix it. Some bitch in a tower killed people years ago, go kill her. Go find me a book in the jungle". Main story was "I'm an Angel, but can't be arsed to do anything myself, so I'm going to ask a hobo to do it. Oops, turns out a hobo wasn't a good choice for saving the world, now I have to blow up the Worldstone". I mean, honestly...doesn't anyone remember that pointless ass named Marius?
lol if you condense any story down to whimsical concepts you can make it sound stupid.
What D2 did was keep the story as more of background information and then let you go out, keeping it from interrupting gameplay. Sometimes a minimalist style with a simple story works.
And Marius was a useful device for telling the story as a normal person would have perceived it.
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On May 29 2012 12:41 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 11:01 OmniEulogy wrote:On May 29 2012 09:07 Kanil wrote:On May 29 2012 08:45 elagrion wrote:
Story-line sucks. As with SCtoo, It's just dumb. Seems to be new blizzard policy: "make a dumb stories".
Other from that - everything seems to be okayish or good. But the problem is - nothing stands out. Hasn't Blizzard always made dumb stories? I don't remember them all very well, but none stand out to me as really interesting. yeah I'm quite confused with this as well... I think the problem is that with starcraft and some of wc3 it isn't forced down your throat as much. Blizzard has always just kind of randomly made decent bits of storyline ect. but the vast majority of it has always been terrible, it just didn't jump up on your screen every few minutes. In wc3 it was normally related to the mission you had to do so it was bearable lol + Show Spoiler [Story whine] +In terms of story, I feel like D3 compared to other Diablo's is a let-down. The cinematics, I think it's something to do with having the player character talk about the quest, but they disappoint me. A silent protagonist is a good protagonist. Final note on the dialogue, cow king. WTF WHO WROTE THAT CRAP? Easter eggs, cool/awesome, until their made out to be an obvious reference, at which point they immediately suck.
I also loved the random tomes in D1. Somehow, this doesn't do it for me either, perhaps there are just too many unnecessary lore tomes that it dilutes the good ones down or something... I mean, what do I care for what Cain/Leah are writing, or the bestiary? Yet it's lore that pops up and dilutes the story related lore. I want things that make the upcoming monsters seem bad-ass. The Skeleton King was good for this, but the butcher? It doesn't even make sense to have a butcher there until the lore pops up AFTER the fight saying 'oh yeah there's actually shit-tons of these guys in hell, but you only ever see one', and that same thing applies every boss fight that isn't SK/Belial/Azmodin/Diablo. I don't even care that the bosses are easier than the content, they should still get you hyped up. Slightly unrelated to this, those bigass background monsters in the areas between the Seigebreaker and Azmodin would make for an awesome fight Slightly O/T: SC:BW had one of the best stories I've seen in a video game. I loved the changing inter-factional stuff. Naturally there's quite a few other contenders when I think about it though.
The way the story was told in SC and BW is why it is so good, you felt part of it and it was an RTS story.
But D2 story is not even close to the real RPG games. BG,PS:T,Fallout, EOTB... Even KQ has a better story haha.
No need to mention D3 or Sc2 really.
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
There's no pleasing everybody. The game would have plenty of haters no matter how it was designed.
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Canada11335 Posts
On May 29 2012 09:07 Kanil wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 08:45 elagrion wrote:
Story-line sucks. As with SCtoo, It's just dumb. Seems to be new blizzard policy: "make a dumb stories".
Other from that - everything seems to be okayish or good. But the problem is - nothing stands out. Hasn't Blizzard always made dumb stories? I don't remember them all very well, but none stand out to me as really interesting.
Were they actually dumb stories or is this just the way to shut down complaints about the modern games poor stories? Because I really don't think "Blizzard makes dumb stories" was the dominant conversation pre-SC2 and certainly not pre-WC3. No one expects a novel, but the stories were always competently told within the limitations of the game type. And personally I found the Blizzard stories form the 90's to be quite compelling in their own minimalistic way.
I also think that even with minimal story telling, almost everything about the game was consistent to the story, particularly graphic style (and that awesome, awesome narrator from WC2). WC3 I feel the graphic style had already lightened up so that while the story ideas were dark, it never felt as dark as Tides of Darkness. Even the pictures in those old lore books were pretty brutal and fed into the gritty feel of the universe.
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On May 29 2012 11:10 PH wrote:
People really bitch about Inferno being too hard? lololol. What point would there be if you could just run it over...
The problem with inferno isn't that it's too hard, it's that it's badly designed.
Being 2 shot by unavoidable damage (current state of inferno) is bad game design, being 1 shot by avoidable damage (not the current state of inferno) is good game design.
I've got more or less a full set of act 2 or better gear on my monk, but I still get absolutely demolished by a lot of stuff, so what I'm forced to do is kite around for most of a fight, go back in to fight for a few seconds while I've got serenity, and then go back to kiting until it's off cooldown again. It doesn't make for very entertaining gameplay.
That said though, I'm still enjoying hardcore on my wizard a lot.
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I'm surprised people like you guys like crafting. I've gotten a few recepies (only 4 property items so far) and I've made a few and the items are ALWAYS utter shit, not even possible to sell on AH, which kinda sucks when the items are this expensive to craft. Sure, if you craft 10 helms, you'll probably get 1 good helmet. Then you sell it on AH for 200k and you just lost a ton of gold (and potential gold for the items you salvaged instead of sold).
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On May 29 2012 06:10 Cokefreak wrote:
I think some people hate it because it's not Diablo 2, just like some people hate SC2 because it's not BW. The rest are mostly just kids feeling entitled to 'something better' because they were born in the 90's. Then there is a small minority of people who actually have a legitimate reason for hating D3 but nobody cares about those people because they are a minority.
I would have thought many of the people who hate d3 are people who hate it because a few other people on the internet said they hate it.Also if they have no money and can't afford it then of course they will badmouth it and give excuses as to why they don't play it.
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On May 29 2012 12:51 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 10:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 29 2012 08:45 elagrion wrote:
Story-line sucks. As with SCtoo, It's just dumb. Seems to be new blizzard policy: "make a dumb stories".
Other from that - everything seems to be okayish or good. But the problem is - nothing stands out. New policy? Didn't anyone actually pay attention to D2's storyline? The quest line was "Bad thing here, go fix it. Some bitch in a tower killed people years ago, go kill her. Go find me a book in the jungle". Main story was "I'm an Angel, but can't be arsed to do anything myself, so I'm going to ask a hobo to do it. Oops, turns out a hobo wasn't a good choice for saving the world, now I have to blow up the Worldstone". I mean, honestly...doesn't anyone remember that pointless ass named Marius? lol if you condense any story down to whimsical concepts you can make it sound stupid. What D2 did was keep the story as more of background information and then let you go out, keeping it from interrupting gameplay. Sometimes a minimalist style with a simple story works. And Marius was a useful device for telling the story as a normal person would have perceived it.
"Minimalist" as in non-existent. I highly doubt anyone that played D2 actually knew what the hell was going on until a boss battle was staring them in the face.
And I love how Marius was "useful" despite representing all the same story issues that people are whining about with D3. Angels who won't do anything, Demon lords who have half-assed strategies, random humans being shoved into the plot despite not being important...
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WoW 2.0 + RMAH
that's why I dont like it.
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On May 29 2012 19:28 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 09:07 Kanil wrote:On May 29 2012 08:45 elagrion wrote:
Story-line sucks. As with SCtoo, It's just dumb. Seems to be new blizzard policy: "make a dumb stories".
Other from that - everything seems to be okayish or good. But the problem is - nothing stands out. Hasn't Blizzard always made dumb stories? I don't remember them all very well, but none stand out to me as really interesting. Were they actually dumb stories or is this just the way to shut down complaints about the modern games poor stories? Because I really don't think "Blizzard makes dumb stories" was the dominant conversation pre-SC2 and certainly not pre-WC3. No one expects a novel, but the stories were always competently told within the limitations of the game type. And personally I found the Blizzard stories form the 90's to be quite compelling in their own minimalistic way. I also think that even with minimal story telling, almost everything about the game was consistent to the story, particularly graphic style (and that awesome, awesome narrator from WC2). WC3 I feel the graphic style had already lightened up so that while the story ideas were dark, it never felt as dark as Tides of Darkness. Even the pictures in those old lore books were pretty brutal and fed into the gritty feel of the universe.
I think Thats just the "90s" syndrome.Where due to limited graphics you have to imagine a lot of the fantasy yourself, giving a more vibrant RPG feel. same reason as why current rpgs dont feel as good story wise as SNES ones.
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The reason I dislike it is because there is significant lag in a single-player game. I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous. Even though I have to log in to play SC2 through the internet, I can still play single-player with no lag. There's also the fact that some people actually have a blast with skill trees and assignment of stats because it makes rerolling a character a potentially vastly different experience in a way besides getting lucky loot.
It's not an awful game, but I wouldn't pay 60 dollars for it after playing the beta.
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Even though I know things will get better and Blizz will step in, couple things that D3 did wrong are:
1. Items are bland
Hey! You just dropped a rare boots that gives +150 dex +150 vit +move speed +mf!! WOW! That makes.. your Dex from 1150 to 1300! Which makes your armor and dps increased! SO COOL!
All items are like this. None of these items are exciting. They're all just stat boosters, nothing more. Where are those special items that gives aura? Special effects? Skill unrelated to your class that makes everything more interesting and customizable? Every single legendary/rare/set items I have and seen are all bland and boring. What is the fun in that?
2. Blizz made it hard by being cheap
The game is challenging at inferno, especially monks and barbs. But they made it hard by being very cheap. Make it challenging like Dark Souls or Ninja Gaiden, but don't make it stupid cheap like Diablo 3. What method do you have when inferno elite has teleport firechain immune vortex jailer? That's plain cheap. Add that in with elite mob being like leapers or oppresors...
I see more interesting items will be added in. But mobs and elites? I don't know. It was fun running upto inferno. It certainly has not been fun afterwards as the grinding is just as bad as any other mmos
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On May 29 2012 21:48 Canas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 11:10 PH wrote:
People really bitch about Inferno being too hard? lololol. What point would there be if you could just run it over... The problem with inferno isn't that it's too hard, it's that it's badly designed. Being 2 shot by unavoidable damage (current state of inferno) is bad game design, being 1 shot by avoidable damage (not the current state of inferno) is good game design. I've got more or less a full set of act 2 or better gear on my monk, but I still get absolutely demolished by a lot of stuff, so what I'm forced to do is kite around for most of a fight, go back in to fight for a few seconds while I've got serenity, and then go back to kiting until it's off cooldown again. It doesn't make for very entertaining gameplay. That said though, I'm still enjoying hardcore on my wizard a lot.
I have to agree and not only that, but Inferno is too gear dependent like every game. I wish designers would avoid such things and make their games more skill-based than anything else but it dampens the game.
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I don't know, I don't like kiting mobs all day.
I like the game but as people have been saying, it's difficult because it's random and mobs have big numbers attached to them, it's not hard by design. Plus, the people who played a lot and managed to farm inferno on easymode before the nerfs hit managed to grab items and sell them at ridiculous prices. This allowed them to rack up millions to buy gear, now they absolutely destroy inferno in their crazy loots while I slowly farm act 3 inferno and it takes me forever. I can never catch up to exploiters.
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On May 29 2012 22:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 12:51 Dfgj wrote:On May 29 2012 10:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 29 2012 08:45 elagrion wrote:
Story-line sucks. As with SCtoo, It's just dumb. Seems to be new blizzard policy: "make a dumb stories".
Other from that - everything seems to be okayish or good. But the problem is - nothing stands out. New policy? Didn't anyone actually pay attention to D2's storyline? The quest line was "Bad thing here, go fix it. Some bitch in a tower killed people years ago, go kill her. Go find me a book in the jungle". Main story was "I'm an Angel, but can't be arsed to do anything myself, so I'm going to ask a hobo to do it. Oops, turns out a hobo wasn't a good choice for saving the world, now I have to blow up the Worldstone". I mean, honestly...doesn't anyone remember that pointless ass named Marius? lol if you condense any story down to whimsical concepts you can make it sound stupid. What D2 did was keep the story as more of background information and then let you go out, keeping it from interrupting gameplay. Sometimes a minimalist style with a simple story works. And Marius was a useful device for telling the story as a normal person would have perceived it. "Minimalist" as in non-existent. I highly doubt anyone that played D2 actually knew what the hell was going on until a boss battle was staring them in the face.And I love how Marius was "useful" despite representing all the same story issues that people are whining about with D3. Angels who won't do anything, Demon lords who have half-assed strategies, random humans being shoved into the plot despite not being important...
Do you just skip the dialogue and not pay attention or something?
I don't think you've paid much attention to the story complaints either: characters turned into overly-chatty caricatures, unlikeable characters that are supposed to matter, predictable twists. Cliched 'chosen one' style story. Poor handling of returning characters. etc
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I have fun playing diablo 3...the only things I don't like about it are:
The dialogue is modern to the point of it being a distraction.
I turn into a chicken sometimes, randomly, when my enchantress tries to turn monsters into them.
I jump around flapping my wings until I get 1 shotted by a skeleton. ROFL.
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On May 30 2012 01:28 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
Even though I know things will get better and Blizz will step in, couple things that D3 did wrong are:
1. Items are bland
Hey! You just dropped a rare boots that gives +150 dex +150 vit +move speed +mf!! WOW! That makes.. your Dex from 1150 to 1300! Which makes your armor and dps increased! SO COOL!
All items are like this. None of these items are exciting. They're all just stat boosters, nothing more. Where are those special items that gives aura? Special effects? Skill unrelated to your class that makes everything more interesting and customizable? Every single legendary/rare/set items I have and seen are all bland and boring. What is the fun in that?
2. Blizz made it hard by being cheap
The game is challenging at inferno, especially monks and barbs. But they made it hard by being very cheap. Make it challenging like Dark Souls or Ninja Gaiden, but don't make it stupid cheap like Diablo 3. What method do you have when inferno elite has teleport firechain immune vortex jailer? That's plain cheap. Add that in with elite mob being like leapers or oppresors...
I see more interesting items will be added in. But mobs and elites? I don't know. It was fun running upto inferno. It certainly has not been fun afterwards as the grinding is just as bad as any other mmos
Those exist, you're just too poor to afford them.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On May 29 2012 06:39 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 06:35 Disposition1989 wrote:
i dont know exactly how pvp is gonna work but for how insanely impossible inferno is gonna be for the casuals, how will they even come close to being able to pvp? in d2, you could have near the top level gear but not neckbeard perfect and still hold your own in duels. it sounds like the gap between the wow guild crossovers and the casual is gonna be too much for fair pvp. thats my biggest concern about the game. d2 for me was about the pvp. go out mf, trade a bit, get 1 more ele gc and go smack around some ww barbs. some of d3 sucks, some of its good. pvp will make or break it for me. maybe if they have tiered battles based on your items or skill or whatever it will be fine. inferno is stupid though. white mobs shouldnt 1 hit you. the difficulty of the inferno bosses im fine with but the mobs not so much Prices drop drastically as the game goes on. If you've played right after a ladder reset you'd know this. The gear that was up for 100k-200k a week ago are now like 30k. You can find 30k through just gold found through act 1 on an inferno run. Pvp was always about gear in diablo 2. You needed tons of gear and you'd get destroyed by someone who had more money. That's just how it is.
Small point but if you say this is true then why do you mention Blacksmithing, its costs are static(50k for a shield or so, much more for better ''tier'' items) and if items become worth less then is it still even worth gambling?
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On May 30 2012 01:50 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 22:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 29 2012 12:51 Dfgj wrote:On May 29 2012 10:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 29 2012 08:45 elagrion wrote:
Story-line sucks. As with SCtoo, It's just dumb. Seems to be new blizzard policy: "make a dumb stories".
Other from that - everything seems to be okayish or good. But the problem is - nothing stands out. New policy? Didn't anyone actually pay attention to D2's storyline? The quest line was "Bad thing here, go fix it. Some bitch in a tower killed people years ago, go kill her. Go find me a book in the jungle". Main story was "I'm an Angel, but can't be arsed to do anything myself, so I'm going to ask a hobo to do it. Oops, turns out a hobo wasn't a good choice for saving the world, now I have to blow up the Worldstone". I mean, honestly...doesn't anyone remember that pointless ass named Marius? lol if you condense any story down to whimsical concepts you can make it sound stupid. What D2 did was keep the story as more of background information and then let you go out, keeping it from interrupting gameplay. Sometimes a minimalist style with a simple story works. And Marius was a useful device for telling the story as a normal person would have perceived it. "Minimalist" as in non-existent. I highly doubt anyone that played D2 actually knew what the hell was going on until a boss battle was staring them in the face.And I love how Marius was "useful" despite representing all the same story issues that people are whining about with D3. Angels who won't do anything, Demon lords who have half-assed strategies, random humans being shoved into the plot despite not being important... Do you just skip the dialogue and not pay attention or something? I don't think you've paid much attention to the story complaints either: characters turned into overly-chatty caricatures, unlikeable characters that are supposed to matter, predictable twists. Cliched 'chosen one' style story. Poor handling of returning characters. etc
I paid plenty of attention to Diablo 2. It's starts with the Wanderer bringing demons to Act 1...and nothing of actual importance is there. Except Andariel, for some reason. Then he drags a human along from Act 1 to the Desert for no good reason (what, couldn't buy a slave from a slaver city?) just to pull out a soul stone. Then Tyrael gets his butt kicked, and entrusts the fate of the world on a complete nobody. Then you fight another demon lord who's acting like a guard dog, just to save an Angel that does...absolutely nothing.
Then you go to Act 3, because apparently that's the only place to possibly create a portal to hell. Or for Diablo to resurrect. Or something to handwave going to another locale. Then you fight Mephisto, who couldn't be arsed to close the one and only portal to hell so that some hero on a rampage couldn't kill his brothers.
Then you go to Hell, where Diablo is sitting around doing absolutely nothing. And kill him. And then surprise! The useless fuck that was entrusted with the fate of the world actually is a useless fuck, and nobody thought to tell you "a hobo has Baal's soulstone".
Then you go to Act 5, where Baal is corrupting a World Stone so that demons that are invading Sanctuary can...invade Sanctuary. And then Tyrael destroys it, because it's actually not that important for the world, or for Angels, or for Demons.
Oh, and did I mention that you're some Joe Schmoe human doing everything that an entire army of the heavens failed to do repeatedly?
So yeah, I paid attention to Diablo 2's storyline. It involve incidentally killing 2 Demon Lords, and 3 Prime Evils getting resurrected so you could kill them again. And not until LoD was there any end-game goal, and it was a completely nonsensical one at that.
And yeah...unlikeable characters that are supposed to matter. Like...Marius? Predictable twists. Like...Baal not dying before you have to boss fight him? Marius not actually killing Baal off-screen? Baal getting his soulstone back? The wanderer being Diablo?
And don't even get me started on cliche stories. I'd much rather have the acknowledgement from D3 that I'm single handedly wiping out the entire army of Hell than D2's much more stale cliche of "big deal, you saved the world, go do my fetch-quest".
Diablo 3, at the very least, improved my opinion of the Lords of Hell from completely idiots to cartoon supervillain.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 30 2012 08:04 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 01:50 Dfgj wrote:On May 29 2012 22:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 29 2012 12:51 Dfgj wrote:On May 29 2012 10:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 29 2012 08:45 elagrion wrote:
Story-line sucks. As with SCtoo, It's just dumb. Seems to be new blizzard policy: "make a dumb stories".
Other from that - everything seems to be okayish or good. But the problem is - nothing stands out. New policy? Didn't anyone actually pay attention to D2's storyline? The quest line was "Bad thing here, go fix it. Some bitch in a tower killed people years ago, go kill her. Go find me a book in the jungle". Main story was "I'm an Angel, but can't be arsed to do anything myself, so I'm going to ask a hobo to do it. Oops, turns out a hobo wasn't a good choice for saving the world, now I have to blow up the Worldstone". I mean, honestly...doesn't anyone remember that pointless ass named Marius? lol if you condense any story down to whimsical concepts you can make it sound stupid. What D2 did was keep the story as more of background information and then let you go out, keeping it from interrupting gameplay. Sometimes a minimalist style with a simple story works. And Marius was a useful device for telling the story as a normal person would have perceived it. "Minimalist" as in non-existent. I highly doubt anyone that played D2 actually knew what the hell was going on until a boss battle was staring them in the face.And I love how Marius was "useful" despite representing all the same story issues that people are whining about with D3. Angels who won't do anything, Demon lords who have half-assed strategies, random humans being shoved into the plot despite not being important... Do you just skip the dialogue and not pay attention or something? I don't think you've paid much attention to the story complaints either: characters turned into overly-chatty caricatures, unlikeable characters that are supposed to matter, predictable twists. Cliched 'chosen one' style story. Poor handling of returning characters. etc I paid plenty of attention to Diablo 2. It's starts with the Wanderer bringing demons to Act 1...and nothing of actual importance is there. Except Andariel, for some reason. Then he drags a human along from Act 1 to the Desert for no good reason (what, couldn't buy a slave from a slaver city?) just to pull out a soul stone. Then Tyrael gets his butt kicked, and entrusts the fate of the world on a complete nobody. Then you fight another demon lord who's acting like a guard dog, just to save an Angel that does...absolutely nothing. Then you go to Act 3, because apparently that's the only place to possibly create a portal to hell. Or for Diablo to resurrect. Or something to handwave going to another locale. Then you fight Mephisto, who couldn't be arsed to close the one and only portal to hell so that some hero on a rampage couldn't kill his brothers. Then you go to Hell, where Diablo is sitting around doing absolutely nothing. And kill him. And then surprise! The useless fuck that was entrusted with the fate of the world actually is a useless fuck, and nobody thought to tell you "a hobo has Baal's soulstone". Then you go to Act 5, where Baal is corrupting a World Stone so that demons that are invading Sanctuary can...invade Sanctuary. And then Tyrael destroys it, because it's actually not that important for the world, or for Angels, or for Demons. Oh, and did I mention that you're some Joe Schmoe human doing everything that an entire army of the heavens failed to do repeatedly? So yeah, I paid attention to Diablo 2's storyline. It involve incidentally killing 2 Demon Lords, and 3 Prime Evils getting resurrected so you could kill them again. And not until LoD was there any end-game goal, and it was a completely nonsensical one at that. And yeah...unlikeable characters that are supposed to matter. Like...Marius? Predictable twists. Like...Baal not dying before you have to boss fight him? Marius not actually killing Baal off-screen? Baal getting his soulstone back? The wanderer being Diablo? And don't even get me started on cliche stories. I'd much rather have the acknowledgement from D3 that I'm single handedly wiping out the entire army of Hell than D2's much more stale cliche of "big deal, you saved the world, go do my fetch-quest". Diablo 3, at the very least, improved my opinion of the Lords of Hell from completely idiots to cartoon supervillain.
Haha, good post.
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note that OP didn't mention his char class and currently on what difficulty. I am guessing he is either a dh or havent gotten into Inferno. and, did he use the chest exploit before the fix or not.
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On June 01 2012 05:15 BurningSera wrote:
note that OP didn't mention his char class and currently on what difficulty. I am guessing he is either a dh or havent gotten into Inferno. and, did he use the chest exploit before the fix or not.
I'm a wizard in act 4 inferno. Currently I have near 30 million gold, and about 5 million from actually farming anything past act 1. Doesn't matter what class I rolled I'd have made money either way. Oh, and I've never found anything worth more than 1 million gold from drops.
And why are people sitting here talking about class balance? Someone please explain to me how diablo 2 was balanced in any way, shape, or form and I'll give you a medal for being the biggest bigot in the world.
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On May 29 2012 22:21 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 06:10 Cokefreak wrote:
I think some people hate it because it's not Diablo 2, just like some people hate SC2 because it's not BW. The rest are mostly just kids feeling entitled to 'something better' because they were born in the 90's. Then there is a small minority of people who actually have a legitimate reason for hating D3 but nobody cares about those people because they are a minority. I would have thought many of the people who hate d3 are people who hate it because a few other people on the internet said they hate it.Also if they have no money and can't afford it then of course they will badmouth it and give excuses as to why they don't play it.
Not going to lie. The first time I discovered an online forum for my new favorite hobby (miniature wargaming), I started hating on it pretty much instantly trying to 'fit in with the cool posters'.
I was 13; I'm glad I've outgrown that phase.
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It hasn't done one thing to improve the genre. It's implemented a restrictive DRM that's necessitated the need to monetize the game for server upkeep. It took out the RPG in A-RPG. Based on Blizzard's sheer magnitude and unlimited budget, it should have been way, way bigger and better.
Then again, I got it for free (a present), so it's easier for me to justify that crap.
However, I'm not going to support Heart of the Swarm simply because of the DRM.
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I don't like it only cause I can't get it to run smoothly on my computer that meets all the requirements, no matter what I do.
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Because it's offline now, while they said it would be offline for maintenance in 2 hours from now.
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The problem I have with the COMPLETE RANDOMIZATION of item is that is makes most of the items for specified class completely redundant and pointless so why even include those stats? Also there are many weird things like Lifesteal and Life on Hit, lifesteal is reduced heavily in inferno and LoH is not, seems like they really need to patch up a few things like that as well since it doesn't keep much consistency.
Also, I agree with your point on groups, I find it much easier to solo than team play. Soloing EXP grind is faster, it's easier... just boring as hell though.
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On June 06 2012 02:41 dRaW wrote:
The problem I have with the COMPLETE RANDOMIZATION of item is that is makes most of the items for specified class completely redundant and pointless so why even include those stats? Also there are many weird things like Lifesteal and Life on Hit, lifesteal is reduced heavily in inferno and LoH is not, seems like they really need to patch up a few things like that as well since it doesn't keep much consistency.
Also, I agree with your point on groups, I find it much easier to solo than team play. Soloing EXP grind is faster, it's easier... just boring as hell though.
On lifesteal vs. loh: If lifesteal wasn't nerfed, it would be broken as fuck. A nicely equipped demon hunter can crit for 300k, meaning wich 10% ls, he'd get 30k life, meaning he'd be fucking invincible. LoH on the other hand, he might get 5k loh at most, being a great stat, yet not complete over the top.
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The game is fine; this is the internet: Everything sucks except that one thing you like, which is amazing, and if you disagree you're wrong.
Just like anything else the haters/complainers are more vocal and seem to have more time on their hands than the people who like the game (maybe because the people who like the game are actually playing it, I dunno).
People rarely go out of their way to praise, but will always go out of their way to complain. Welcome to humanity.
Edit: Since everyone else is doing it, I might as well say the few things I really DO have a problem with:
1. The extreme imbalance of classes in inferno. This was to be expected, and I knew starting with a melee class would be harder, but right now it is just too extreme. The rest of the difficulties were fine, though, and I actually felt a little bit stronger than the range classes through most of the game. Things like this always take time to balance, give Blizzard some time.
2. Inferno is basically ONLY solo-able beyond act 2. I have a lot of friends playing this game and most of us made it up to inferno together. However, after early act 2, it is really hard to play in groups, even a group of 2, because the damage increase is so ridiculous that everyone just gets 1 shot by everything, so you are all just constantly running back. Inferno scales too hard for coop play, especially when playing a melee class.
I still really enjoy the game and my expectations have been 95% fulfilled I'd say. I know they will get inferno right, it will just take time.
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idk about you guys but i haven't really had the drive to beat act 2 normal mode.. I just log in, play for like 10 minutes, then log off and go do something more interesting.. It just doesn't really hold my interest at all, which is retarded because i put at least 30 hours into the beta
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This game blows. Have fun with your essences. You're going to create a character that's good at beating a game hardly anyone cares about. The simple fact of the matter is it's not fun. People can complain about AH, balance, and drops all the want, but for me it has nothing to do with that. The game is simply boring.
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I'll tell you what's wrong with it.
1. The Auction House ruined the core mechanic of game.
Diablo is a hack 'n' slay that revolves around killing demons, equipping items, killing more dangerous demons, equipping better items and so on. The items are random, both their chance to drop and some of their stats. What keeps you playing is the carrot on the fishing pole, i. e. a possibly cool item after a kill. You will most likely not get it, but you know you have a very slight chance of finding something awesome if you just kill Lazarus one more time.
The AH completely demolishes this formula. Since millions of people pour their loot into the AH, Blizzard had to drastically reduce the chances to get a decent item from minuscule to basically nothing or the market would be flooded with them. What happens is that the character makes the greatest leaps of power not by playing the game, but using this program outside the game. It's extremely unrewarding, it's unexciting, and it breaks immersion. I bought a new weapon for my monk in the AH and my DPS went from 3800 to 6800. By paying gold. Yeah, that sounds like fun.
2. Items are bland.
You just plain never find anything good or interesting. Items are boring with faceless stats and DPS increases. The Undead Crown had exactly one stat, 5% Life Stealing. That was it, one stat that was rare in the game. It changed the way you played a warrior, it had flavor, it was useful, it was unique in the true sense of the word. In 60 hours of D3, I have not gotten a single interesting item. This is just poor design. Don't even get me started on how the massively random numbers on items make them ugly and inelegant.
3. Since I can't commit to anything, I don't feel attached to my character.
Everything you have and do in this game is disposable. Equipment changes, but that's fine, that's how these games work. But since there are no custom attributes or skills, everything in the game can be changed on a whim. This also means that everything is incredibly arbitrary. I don't feel any connection to "my" character at all.
4. Forced online has no benefit for the customer.
So Blizzard wanted a cut of item sales and invented the AH. In order to make the biggest profit possible, they force everyone to be online at any time. The customer doesn't benefit at all from this. He is denied from playing a single player game when servers are down. He needs to have an internet connection at all times. He suffers from lag. He never gets good loot because of the AH. There is NO reason there could not have been a simple single player option where you can just play the game offline with a character that can't be used online. Blizzard forced an economic decision on the player without benefitting him from it, and that is an absolute first from Blizzard aside from no LAN in SC2. It leaves a really bad taste that worries me about Blizzard's future decisions.
5. The story and their characters, especially the villains, are badly presented.
To some people, myself included, lore and story matters. I have the Book of Cain and it's an amazing piece of literature, rich with cool ideas and stories. The Diablo franchise comprises much, much more than "Kill the red dude with the spikes". In Diablo 3, nothing feels threatening at all. (Belial is the only notable exception to this.) Heck, not even your damn followers are impressed by any of the Evils. Maghda, Azmodan and Diablo talk WAY too much and sound like Looney Tunes villains. Even poor good ol' Butcher can't open his door himself, Maghda has to let him out while introducing him like some wrestler. And then he goes "vegetable bad, meat good". Good Lord, what a caricature.
And then we get the one single cool NPC in this game, Zoltun Kulle, Blizzard's first decent jab at a character with great humor since Kerrigan in SC1. And swiftly proceed to kill him within one act while trash talking moron Covetous Shen gets to stick around. Gah.
The sad thing is that these are all conscious design decisions by Blizzard. They aren't mistakes that you can patch if given enough time. They WANTED it to be like this.
Don't get me wrong, for the first 40 hours, I enjoyed this game and I'm glad I bought it. Act 4 alone was worth it, I dig the architecture. It was kinda fun, but then I noticed that I lost interest in the game and tried to investigate why. Those are the main reasons I came up with.
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I can understand some of your complaints, but I honestly don't think they're as big of a deal as you make it out to be.
1. Come on now. Millions of people playing on Americas (not a 5 year old dead game that's split into USW, USE and so forth). What do you expect? People to set up thousands of game modes that you browse through or spammed trade chat channels? Please, that's just annoying and unnecessary and would just move everyone to d2jsp.
2. This game has lifesteal as well. It's missing runewords and such, but they didn't "remove it" they just didn't add it in yet so they could add it in the next expansion. Marketing scheme. Sucks, but oh well, will just make the expansion that much more hyped.
3. Perhaps that's true, but look at the other side. It's totally customizable, and it's not just "another character". In d2 I'd have like 9 characters. This is your ONE character and it's yours and you've put hours into it from day 1.
4. Single player is gone, can't say too much about it since that was never my thing. But it's not like you got anything good from d2 let's be honest, at least for actual good gear with no MF. I still say it's enough to get through hell. If you want to get through inferno on your own tough luck, there's no way you'd get through uber tristram on your own anyways.
5. I won't say anything about that since I'll be honest, I didn't even pay attention to it. I thought it was a bit cliche though at some points.
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On June 06 2012 07:13 Itsmedudeman wrote:
I can understand some of your complaints, but I honestly don't think they're as big of a deal as you make it out to be.
1. Come on now. Millions of people playing on Americas (not a 5 year old dead game that's split into USW, USE and so forth). What do you expect? People to set up thousands of game modes that you browse through or spammed trade chat channels? Please, that's just annoying and unnecessary and would just move everyone to d2jsp.
That's not the problem. The problem is that the existence of the AH forces terrible loot on everybody, even people that don't want to use it. A game isn't some spreadsheet to me where I get power by paying currency, a game is an environment in which I want to use what I find. Again, biggest immersion breaker ever.
2. This game has lifesteal as well. It's missing runewords and such, but they didn't "remove it" they just didn't add it in yet so they could add it in the next expansion. Marketing scheme. Sucks, but oh well, will just make the expansion that much more hyped.
Life Stealing was just an example for a unique item that was a) acquired at a low level, enticing new players into the game, b) simple, elegant and useful, and c) provided a rare stat in a slot that no other head item in the whole game had. You know, "unique". There are no items like that in D3.
3. Perhaps that's true, but look at the other side. It's totally customizable, and it's not just "another character". In d2 I'd have like 9 characters. This is your ONE character and it's yours and you've put hours into it from day 1.
Then that is personal choice. I'm a classic RPG gamer, and the way D3 works makes it feel like you're not playing a character, you're leveling an account. Like an FPS with a progression system. I'm absolutely fine with you liking this, but it's not for me.
4. Single player is gone, can't say too much about it since that was never my thing. But it's not like you got anything good from d2 let's be honest, at least for actual good gear with no MF. I still say it's enough to get through hell. If you want to get through inferno on your own tough luck, there's no way you'd get through uber tristram on your own anyways.
I think it's very important to talk about subjectivity versus objectivity here. Objectively, you are absolutely right, you usually didn't find good stuff in D2 either. The difference is the subjective feeling that you COULD. In D3, you know there is absolutely nothing to look forward to because you know there's nothing there. You play through the game three times even before entering the late game. So during that period, you'll never have good gear because the AH has stuff from higher level people. At max level, you might find something good, but then again, the items are boring and never change any mechanics. That missing perspective destroyed my motivation to play the game.
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^ This. I wish there was some way I could return the game. Hell, I'd be willing to pay money to show Blizzard how much I hate this game and wish they went out of business. If someone starts a kickstarter called "Prove Diablo 3 sux balls, raise a million dollars to prove your hate," I'd donate $100.
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I would not even bother comparing what is in D3 that might have been better in D2. That much I think is insignificant. What is disappointing for many people who have played a lot of Blizzard games, is that the difference between D1 and D2 was immense (in terms of gameplay), and the difference between D3 and D2? Well it's not that vast. All the advancements in technology since D2 are basically being put toward polyginal graphics.
When we were young, the very idea of a video game was great. It's why people could play such crappy, 1 dimensional games in the late 80s. In order to continue to entice such gamers, there is a necessity for novelty, and for many graphics aren't enough. The jump of gameplay between super mario and mario 64? HUGE. The jump of gameplay between D2 and D3? Basically the same thing... There isn't much for an old player to discover, so it feels like routine. Someone who is experiencing D3 as their first game of this type is going to love it, and someone who just wanted more D2 to play is going to love it, but someone who wanted something interesting and new is going to be disappointed. There is just not much reason for someone to spend 30 hours playing a game they already played for 100s of hours many years ago. Some people can play the same 3d Zelda game console after console, and some people get bored of that and only remember the first new one so fondly.
Anyway, Gheed also made a post like this, so I don't know why you wanted to as well. You even tried to copy his format.
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On June 06 2012 08:46 Chef wrote:
I would not even bother comparing what is in D3 that might have been better in D2. That much I think is insignificant. What is disappointing for many people who have played a lot of Blizzard games, is that the difference between D1 and D2 was immense (in terms of gameplay), and the difference between D3 and D2? Well it's not that vast. All the advancements in technology since D2 are basically being put toward polyginal graphics.
When we were young, the very idea of a video game was great. It's why people could play such crappy, 1 dimensional games in the late 80s. In order to continue to entice such gamers, there is a necessity for novelty, and for many graphics aren't enough. The jump of gameplay between super mario and mario 64? HUGE. The jump of gameplay between D2 and D3? Basically the same thing... There isn't much for an old player to discover, so it feels like routine. Someone who is experiencing D3 as their first game of this type is going to love it, and someone who just wanted more D2 to play is going to love it, but someone who wanted something interesting and new is going to be disappointed. There is just not much reason for someone to spend 30 hours playing a game they already played for 100s of hours many years ago. Some people can play the same 3d Zelda game console after console, and some people get bored of that and only remember the first new one so fondly.
Anyway, Gheed also made a post like this, so I don't know why you wanted to as well. You even tried to copy his format.
Don't know who gheeds is or what his blog was about, but believe it or not, a lot of people list things in order to address their points... so.... What format would I do exactly?
And the gameplay difference is huge as far as combat goes. If they change too much then people just bitch that it's not anything like d2 which is what people are already complaining about.
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On June 06 2012 07:34 PraefektMotus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2012 07:13 Itsmedudeman wrote:
I can understand some of your complaints, but I honestly don't think they're as big of a deal as you make it out to be.
1. Come on now. Millions of people playing on Americas (not a 5 year old dead game that's split into USW, USE and so forth). What do you expect? People to set up thousands of game modes that you browse through or spammed trade chat channels? Please, that's just annoying and unnecessary and would just move everyone to d2jsp. That's not the problem. The problem is that the existence of the AH forces terrible loot on everybody, even people that don't want to use it. A game isn't some spreadsheet to me where I get power by paying currency, a game is an environment in which I want to use what I find. Again, biggest immersion breaker ever. Show nested quote +2. This game has lifesteal as well. It's missing runewords and such, but they didn't "remove it" they just didn't add it in yet so they could add it in the next expansion. Marketing scheme. Sucks, but oh well, will just make the expansion that much more hyped. Life Stealing was just an example for a unique item that was a) acquired at a low level, enticing new players into the game, b) simple, elegant and useful, and c) provided a rare stat in a slot that no other head item in the whole game had. You know, "unique". There are no items like that in D3. Show nested quote +3. Perhaps that's true, but look at the other side. It's totally customizable, and it's not just "another character". In d2 I'd have like 9 characters. This is your ONE character and it's yours and you've put hours into it from day 1. Then that is personal choice. I'm a classic RPG gamer, and the way D3 works makes it feel like you're not playing a character, you're leveling an account. Like an FPS with a progression system. I'm absolutely fine with you liking this, but it's not for me. Show nested quote +4. Single player is gone, can't say too much about it since that was never my thing. But it's not like you got anything good from d2 let's be honest, at least for actual good gear with no MF. I still say it's enough to get through hell. If you want to get through inferno on your own tough luck, there's no way you'd get through uber tristram on your own anyways. I think it's very important to talk about subjectivity versus objectivity here. Objectively, you are absolutely right, you usually didn't find good stuff in D2 either. The difference is the subjective feeling that you COULD. In D3, you know there is absolutely nothing to look forward to because you know there's nothing there. You play through the game three times even before entering the late game. So during that period, you'll never have good gear because the AH has stuff from higher level people. At max level, you might find something good, but then again, the items are boring and never change any mechanics. That missing perspective destroyed my motivation to play the game.
Well, you seem to be looking at this from a single player point of view, but again, I don't really get what you mean when you say that you could find items that you could use. How is d3 not the same in that respect? Of course they'll be worse than what COULD be on the auction house, but same for d2... It could definitely be worse than what someone else is selling. Every time I played d2 and leveled my character my items would be trash. Just so you now, the chances of finding something like a gryffon's is .00000000001%. I don't think we should at all care about that being able to drop for us running through hell, because chances are it won't. I've found plenty of good items in d3 that I've used. It's just that there's always something better, although I still use like 2 items I've found which are amazingly good. Same for d2 really... it just made it a hell of a lot harder to find it.
I played through hell and never found it absolutely necessary to have to buy from the auction house. I bought a weapon sure, just to make things easier, but nothing else, really.
I think the biggest difference between d3 and d2 in terms of items is that in d2 you wouldn't need to get your items into a specific build. A lot of items in d3 actually do you have unique stats, but you need other stats to make them work off each other. If you have life on hit, you need attack speed, etc.
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EPT
