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Stunted Growth of SC2 - Page 11

Blogs > Plexa
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jtp118
Profile Joined November 2010
United States137 Posts
April 22 2012 17:10 GMT
#201
Actually QXC made a very similar point in an interview with Apollo a few weeks ago, that the real foreigner hope will be someone who is like 14 or 15 right now ... the old BW foreigner 'pros' are obviously not going to get us there. It's really wasn't that hard to be one of the best foreigners when maybe 200 people were playing BW seriously in North America in 2008; the player pool is so much larger now.

Though speaking of QXC, I think he might actually start winning tournaments once he finishes college, he seems extremely driven
Marddox
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom108 Posts
April 22 2012 18:07 GMT
#202
On April 22 2012 11:19 Kraznaya wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2012 07:40 Tachion wrote:
BBoongbboong has 38,000 GSL off the record views

Alive has 16,000

This is AFTER ALIVE WON IPL4, and he still has less than half the people watching him as some guy who did kinda well in team leagues. Faceless Korean to the max.


It's not b4's fault that hes a lot funnier than alive :<



Also hasn't BBoongbboongs off the record been out for longer too?
We didn't have no "4 gates" back in the probe drought, no sir! we only had 1 gate, chrono and probes to defend!
Neelia
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany599 Posts
April 22 2012 18:51 GMT
#203
On April 21 2012 08:04 Highways wrote:
Agreed, time for the 2nd gen of foreigners to rise.


Well, I'd say that's pretty hard or next to impossible if the big teams (TL/EG/col come to mind) only pick up koreans these days. Maybe I've missed out on some awesome fan interaction but at least to me Puma/JYP/HerO/Zenio/Taeja are as 'faceless' as players like Squirtle, Alive, Maru and most of the others who got named in this thread. The only thing making me relate at least a bit to them are their jerseys and seeing them more regular but that doesn't make me root for them or tune in if they play other players I can't relate too.

I'm a bit concerned about the future of foreign sc2 due to picking up (only) koreans instead of foreigners. Yeah, they will show better or/and more short term results but it kinda kills the fun of the tournaments (at least for me). If I want to see the highest quality of play I'd rather watch GSL where players aren't tired as hell after 3 days and can prepare special stuff. The typical foreign tournament (MLG/IPL/DH) lives on storylines (for me at least) and most koreans (no matter where foreign or korean team) don't really provide much in this regard.

Also it's a bit disturbing to me that koreans on korean teams show more personality/fan interaction than some koreans on foreign teams. MKP/DRG/Polt saying single sentences in broken English shows to me that they care for the foreign audience/fans where as I've never heard a single english sentence from most koreans on foreign teams (only MC comes to mind).

Not sure how long the foreign sc2 scene can sustain huge tournaments like MLG/DH/IPL if this continues.
RavenLoud
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada1100 Posts
April 22 2012 19:08 GMT
#204
On April 22 2012 21:33 Wasteweiser wrote:
After watching so much sc2 and getting glimpses of korean culture i'll be dead honest, i don't like their culture at all, and even if i went pro enough to win a gsl, i'd be very hesitant to go to korea and compete. Why? because of how the majority of the SC2 pros act coming from korea, all bland and very unintresting. There are like 3 player's personalities that i enjoy from korea and half of them are a bit against the grain of their culture, MC, Genius, MKP. MC and Genius are cocky and confident, its a lovely contrast to everyone else while MKP holds his emotions on his sleeve, making you want him to succeed. Really I want to see player's emotions, like watching Grubby, Dimaga, Naniwa ect.. These guys explode with happiness when they win, it shows they have passion, it shows they're human and those are the people you want to cheer for.

You can take a look at the fighting game scene at a prime player that everyone seems hates, even in his own country, Diago Umehara. Nobody wants to see a machine win everything, and thats exactly what korea comes of to me as, breed machines with their only intrest in "showing a good game". I'll never forget Diago finally falling to pieces in last years EVO, After a hilarious pre game warm up from Poongko (resulting of chugging a whole red bull, whipping his belt off to get comfortable (everyone thought he was about to strip)), he finally the first player to utter destroy Diago in the most convincing fashion complete with a perfect, afterwards saluting the crowd. It's players like Poongko that we watch esports, and sports in general.

I don't want to cheer for a machine, i want to cheer for a human being that shows evidence of hard work and celebrates for all his hard work because it finally paid off. Really makes me miss CS1.6, i'll never forget the screams of victory whenever teams like 3D or SK won back in the day, you could tell they were giving it their all.

Poongko VS Diago

Poongko's opening celebration and all if anyone is intrested in that.

Team 3D vs SK

Team 3D vs SK at CPL, a bit longer video but really shows how into they get, you can see how disappointed teams get when they lose, all the stress built up for SK when 3D tiesup the series and just the yelling you hear through the entire lan everytime they take a round.

I agree with what you're saying. I wasn't even around until 2010, but just watching the old BW games of Boxer etc gave me exactly what you're describing. That guy is such a rockstar, without him there would be no esports in Korea. I rarely get that feeling in SC2. There has been too much macro terran domination for me.



I'm not sure if I'd blame it on the korean culture per se, Koreans aren't that boring once you get to know them. They play boring because safe play is boring, and safe play often win you games, get you money and it's completely fair. I think you could do without that assumption. Their culture do have its own problems, but watching SC2 doesn't make you an expert on it.

Besides, the korean commentators are leagues above that of their foreign peers, precisely because they bring so much excitement compared to your "Well the game is over at this point" style of many non-korean casters. That fact contradict your allegation.


JacobShock
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Denmark2485 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-22 19:32:14
April 22 2012 19:14 GMT
#205
my bad, wrong thread.
"Right on" - Morrow
PhiliBiRD
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2643 Posts
April 22 2012 19:42 GMT
#206
great post Plexa... pretty much agree with everything.

koreans taking over tournies is why i gave up SC2 in the first place... nearly a year ago
Huitzi
Profile Joined November 2011
United States33 Posts
April 22 2012 19:43 GMT
#207
Dreamhack, now it's Thorzain vs Monster and if he advances vs Polt, who will everyone root for? Thorzain, beccause he's the last foreigner on the tournament and because he's in Swedish in Sweden! But really shows what the OP was saying.
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
April 22 2012 20:11 GMT
#208
--- Nuked ---
snakeeyez
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1231 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-22 20:31:10
April 22 2012 20:29 GMT
#209
When someone says the korean players lack history what does that mean exactly? Explain how a foreign player like ret or thorzain has history you mean like the caster saying a few lines on how they lost against some player a year ago or something like that? I guess I have never cared a lot about history of a player its more what did you do for me lately.
Im a foreigner and I generally always always want the koreans to win I could care less if the player speaks english or not I want the most skilled player to win regardless of foreigner or not.
Xirroh
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada146 Posts
April 22 2012 20:40 GMT
#210
I agree completely. I feel less and less excited about the players at recent events (unless Stephano has made it to the final). Foreigners are really struggling. This recent talk of BW pro's switching to SC2 could change things if they do well.
rei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3594 Posts
April 22 2012 20:41 GMT
#211
i support Plexa's idea of having more open spots that allows anyone to compete for them, and paid ticket to the big event after they win a open spot. However, I in no way support limiting competition base on race, let the best player take these open spots.
GET OUT OF MY BASE CHILL
dUTtrOACh
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada2339 Posts
April 22 2012 22:27 GMT
#212
I, for one, was glad to see Alive in the finals, and glad to see he was playing against a highly skilled terran killer like Squirtle. I thoroughly enjoyed that finals, despite the fact that the tournament format made it almost unwinnable for Squirtle. Faceless Koreans my ass. Those guys are known players and top tier, Code S level players. Fucking insulting...
twitch.tv/duttroach
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 01:33:10
April 23 2012 01:15 GMT
#213
Though I agree with what Plexa is saying. I do think plexa falsely locates the problem. The problem isn't the Koreans. or the overwhelming # of koreans, it has to do with Foreign infrastructure to produce SC2 superstars. The # of koreans in tournaments isn't the problem. it's the # of GOOD koreans that's destroying foreigners. Though Plexa mentions Scarlett (I still think her story line is still far too young, and early to determine any actual skill (as opposed t fluke)), I think a much stronger mention would be Stephano, though he seems to group stephano in the "first gen" sc2 players, I think he's the beginning of second generation of sc2 players. The generation of "good foreigners" is too reliant on "talent". All the 'breakthrough' foreigner sc2 players (those able to compete with koreans) often come out of nowhere. As opposed to "faceless" koreans who have had strong training from a team, and were built and tailored to win.

Also, can't wait for QXC to be finished with college. He's one of the very few players that seem to scientifically try and experiment out builds and timings, rather than just "feeling" them through. During his time during summer, when he was able to train seriously, and was able to all kill IM.
liftlift > tsm
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
April 23 2012 01:22 GMT
#214
On April 22 2012 19:21 Otolia wrote:
I'm waiting for Plexa to tell NonY, TLO and Jinro to retire because they are taking the places of newcomers. Sometimes you have to start by showing a good example, and Plexa certainly has more influence on TL lineup than any other who posted here. So why won't that happen ? My take is that it's always easier to point fingers at others than do the right (according to one's own opinion) thing.

Aside from that, promising players are not likely to thrash their future up for a place in a top team. We are trying to force the professionalization of eSports when I think it's too soon. Time will tell but if we don't get more foreign competitive newcomers in a few years, there would be no coming back. Koreans are training to be pro and they aren't paid, their life are miserable by my standards but in the west, a kid cannot bet his life on a game that will have a lifespan of around 15 years max (as shown by the original SC scene) whatis he going to do afterwards if he doesn't succeed ? Well return to poverty like so many Koreans whom you never heard of and were destroyed by the draft system, never had a chance to play a televised game and had no college degree.

This topic is much more complex than it seems but all in all we have to get rid of the past to make room for the present. And so far it isn't happening.

I can assure you that Plexa was as disappointed as everyone else when Tyler wasn't practicing and being as good as he should have been.
FXOBoSs
Profile Joined August 2011
337 Posts
April 23 2012 01:25 GMT
#215
Very nice post plexa. It actually highlights many of the reasons I have made certain decisions.
www.twitter.com/gosutrading
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
April 23 2012 02:54 GMT
#216
On April 23 2012 10:25 FXOBoSs wrote:
Very nice post plexa. It actually highlights many of the reasons I have made certain decisions.


Explain what those certain decisions are?
kochujang
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany1226 Posts
April 23 2012 02:57 GMT
#217
On April 23 2012 05:11 Barrin wrote:
I don't wanna throw it all on them or anything, but I feel like most casters could do a better job making a story/connection with these korean players :>

Moletrap is perhaps the only one who made an effort to dig up information about the GSL players. Even though the almighty Artosis is always "catching up on watching the VODs", I have the feeling he does not make the extra effort to inform himself of the lesser known players. I hope Khaldor (hope you read this!) will show us the light on how to come extra prepared into a casting show.
FXOBoSs
Profile Joined August 2011
337 Posts
April 23 2012 03:11 GMT
#218
On April 23 2012 11:54 Odal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 10:25 FXOBoSs wrote:
Very nice post plexa. It actually highlights many of the reasons I have made certain decisions.


Explain what those certain decisions are?


I'd prefer not to be stabbed with pitch forks today. Perhaps some other time.
www.twitter.com/gosutrading
Bobo_XIII
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
United States429 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 03:18:03
April 23 2012 03:17 GMT
#219
On April 23 2012 12:11 FXOBoSs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 11:54 Odal wrote:
On April 23 2012 10:25 FXOBoSs wrote:
Very nice post plexa. It actually highlights many of the reasons I have made certain decisions.


Explain what those certain decisions are?


I'd prefer not to be stabbed with pitch forks today. Perhaps some other time.


I foresee people getting more angry at you for mentioning it then not explaining... I think it'd have been best to not tease people like that
There's a hole in the world like a great black pit, and the vermin of the world inhabit it... and its morals aren't worth what a pig could spit, and it goes by the name of Reddit.
FXOBoSs
Profile Joined August 2011
337 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-23 03:28:45
April 23 2012 03:27 GMT
#220
On April 23 2012 12:17 Bobo_XIII wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2012 12:11 FXOBoSs wrote:
On April 23 2012 11:54 Odal wrote:
On April 23 2012 10:25 FXOBoSs wrote:
Very nice post plexa. It actually highlights many of the reasons I have made certain decisions.


Explain what those certain decisions are?


I'd prefer not to be stabbed with pitch forks today. Perhaps some other time.


I foresee people getting more angry at you for mentioning it then not explaining... I think it'd have been best to not tease people like that


I don't. But an example of a decision would be to focus on our korean team ahead of foreign players. Because financially the ones you will get a big return out of will cost too much and won't win anything. Korean market is just better because its skill based not PR spinning crap.

Take the NBA, the biggest hyped players, are the best players. In SC2 its like completely opposite. The most hyped players, don't really win anything. Or have won something, but won't win again.

I hope this has satisfied you.
www.twitter.com/gosutrading
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