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i've always wondered why sc2 didnt become as popular in korea as it did internationally. if u look closely, everything points toward sc2 being big in korea. especially now since sc2 has been out for a while and brood war is slowly losing its popularity with even rumors that OSL will disappear soon and the MSL already going away. in fact, because sc2 has become so popular worldwide and its still koreans who are dominating the game, it should actually mean koreans should have more interest in the game, with bigger prize pools etc.
well, i've not saying my views are 100% correct obviously, but i just wanted to share some of my views on why i think this is happening. first of all i went to thisisgame.com and afreeca (which are big korean esports sites like tl), and noticed there wasn't that much news articles and coverage on sc2. there is alot of news on LoL (i heard korea got their own lol server). its as if the news sites are trying to avoid sc2 if possible. they the do the bare minimum in terms of sc2 coverage (btw, i havent like spent hours on these sties or anything, jus browsed their homepage and major articles) and cover other games i havent really heard of. and after seeing this, i realized its because of the whole kespa thing. i remembered how blizzard gave gomtv exclusive rights to broadcast sc2 in korea (i dont know long this is for and what the details are) and because of this reason, sc2 coverage is not that big.
basically, i think once other big tv industries and internet sites are able to gain the rights to broadcast sc2 as well as gomtv, sc2 will becomes SO much bigger in korea. basically, the media doesn't cover sc2 enough to the point where it should be as big as bw was, and honestly, i think this is because of kespa. its kinda like sc2 should have been the rightful heir to bw but because of everything that happened with blizzard and kespa, korea was kinda in a state of anarchy trying to find the right game to replace sc1. its like sc2 wants to go mainstream but cant because of the rights blizzard set on the game.
anyways, just wanted to share that. i wanted to write about that after going to those korean game sites for the first time and actually looking around at the articles and such.
 
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This is how I look at it, when BW finally ends. SC2 will take it's place, until then SC2 will just be another game. In terms of LOL though I feel that LOL has is Korea's replacement for dota so thats why its popular.
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10387 Posts
SC2 had its chance, now LoL is taking it.
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On March 02 2012 17:43 ArvickHero wrote:
SC2 had its chance, now LoL is taking it.
Yes, there was a big timing window, but Blizzard botched it up, instead of trying to get Kespa no matter the price they chose the smaller piece of cake which was GOM, now LoL is riding the glory. And many BW fans will probably switch to it or just leave esports.
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You have to realize that BW in Korea isn't just another game, its something else, something special and unique with developed scene which works well for 11 years already.
And they're right about it, while SC2 is just another game with shiny graphics.
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its kinda like sc2 should have been the rightful heir to bw but because of everything that happened with blizzard and kespa, korea was kinda in a state of anarchy trying to find the right game to replace sc1. its like sc2 wants to go mainstream but cant because of the rights blizzard set on the game. Rightful heir my ass. No one trying to replace BW except for people who are only interested in making a quick buck. Corporations that contributed nothing to esports (blizzard), washed up/Bteam/retired/ex BW pros, non-korean progamers, etc. Maybe it's not as big as BW in korea
On February 02 2012 23:36 IdrA wrote:
cuz its a shit game
Oh, this is a really good post
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288
It's a bit outdated though, but it should still be somewhat relevant
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On March 02 2012 17:47 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +its kinda like sc2 should have been the rightful heir to bw but because of everything that happened with blizzard and kespa, korea was kinda in a state of anarchy trying to find the right game to replace sc1. its like sc2 wants to go mainstream but cant because of the rights blizzard set on the game. Rightful heir my ass. No one trying to replace BW except for people who are only interested in making a quick buck. Corporations that contributed nothing to esports (blizzard), washed up/Bteam/retired/ex BW pros, non-korean progamers, etc. Maybe it's not as big as BW in korea Oh, this is a really good post http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288It's a bit outdated though, but it should still be somewhat relevant
yeah that blog was written in aug 2010, yet all 6 of those reasons he gives are still valid now. thats pretty much what i tried to say, but better. like... all 6 of those reasons. goes to show, until companies other than gom gets access to broadcast sc2, the growth of sc2 will never get big. i just hope when the contract gom has with blizzard expires, sc2 will finally get its chance of glory.
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Blizzard could not care less about promoting eSports in Korea. The conditions surrounding BW's release, along with its inspiring gameplay / immaculate balance really formed a "perfect storm" of sorts. With the lack of LAN, graphics intensity, boring gameplay, etc. there's just no way the average Korean is going to think "hey I really want to play this game."
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On March 02 2012 17:47 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +its kinda like sc2 should have been the rightful heir to bw but because of everything that happened with blizzard and kespa, korea was kinda in a state of anarchy trying to find the right game to replace sc1. its like sc2 wants to go mainstream but cant because of the rights blizzard set on the game. Rightful heir my ass. No one trying to replace BW except for people who are only interested in making a quick buck. Corporations that contributed nothing to esports (blizzard), washed up/Bteam/retired/ex BW pros, non-korean progamers, etc. Maybe it's not as big as BW in korea Oh, this is a really good post http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288It's a bit outdated though, but it should still be somewhat relevant
Hey if SC2 lived up to the same standards we expected from BW then it would be the rightful heir. It should have been an improvement over BW, but it wasn't. Blizzard botched it, and now LoL is taking BWs place as stated.
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On March 02 2012 18:07 synapse wrote:
Blizzard could not care less about promoting eSports in Korea. The conditions surrounding BW's release, along with its inspiring gameplay / immaculate balance really formed a "perfect storm" of sorts. With the lack of LAN, graphics intensity, boring gameplay, etc. there's just no way the average Korean is going to think "hey I really want to play this game."
Yea, if every Korean is a narrow minded nostalgic like you, then no, SC2 will never be what BW is.
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On March 02 2012 19:01 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 17:47 Xenocide_Knight wrote:its kinda like sc2 should have been the rightful heir to bw but because of everything that happened with blizzard and kespa, korea was kinda in a state of anarchy trying to find the right game to replace sc1. its like sc2 wants to go mainstream but cant because of the rights blizzard set on the game. Rightful heir my ass. No one trying to replace BW except for people who are only interested in making a quick buck. Corporations that contributed nothing to esports (blizzard), washed up/Bteam/retired/ex BW pros, non-korean progamers, etc. Maybe it's not as big as BW in korea On February 02 2012 23:36 IdrA wrote:
cuz its a shit game Oh, this is a really good post http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288It's a bit outdated though, but it should still be somewhat relevant Hey if SC2 lived up to the same standards we expected from BW then it would be the rightful heir. It should have been an improvement over BW, but it wasn't. Blizzard botched it, and now LoL is taking BWs place as stated.
No offense, but it seems to me broodwar was an anomaly. Blizzard would have NEVER even imagined that the game would turn out so good. All of the little glitches (muta stacking) that made the game amazing, were not intended. The game is so extremely complex that it was basically a fluke that it turned out so well. There is no way anybody in his right mind should've expected Starcraft 2 to be better. They did even better then I expected. Just to give you an example: Halo CE was amazing, it had little glitches ands not intended gameplay because of the engine, yet it turned out perfect. How do you think Halo 2 panned out? Not half as good, why? Because Halo CE was just a fluke, by accident it turned out so well.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Blizzard screwed up the release of SC2 in Korea big time, which is part as to why SC2 is not so big in Korea, LoL is already bigger and it will overtake BW aswell.
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On March 02 2012 17:47 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +its kinda like sc2 should have been the rightful heir to bw but because of everything that happened with blizzard and kespa, korea was kinda in a state of anarchy trying to find the right game to replace sc1. its like sc2 wants to go mainstream but cant because of the rights blizzard set on the game. Rightful heir my ass. No one trying to replace BW except for people who are only interested in making a quick buck. Corporations that contributed nothing to esports (blizzard), washed up/Bteam/retired/ex BW pros, non-korean progamers, etc. Maybe it's not as big as BW in korea Oh, this is a really good post http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288It's a bit outdated though, but it should still be somewhat relevant
You hit the nail on the head with this one. Thank you very much and I couldn't agree more.
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On March 02 2012 17:47 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +its kinda like sc2 should have been the rightful heir to bw but because of everything that happened with blizzard and kespa, korea was kinda in a state of anarchy trying to find the right game to replace sc1. its like sc2 wants to go mainstream but cant because of the rights blizzard set on the game. Rightful heir my ass. No one trying to replace BW except for people who are only interested in making a quick buck. Corporations that contributed nothing to esports (blizzard), washed up/Bteam/retired/ex BW pros, non-korean progamers, etc. Maybe it's not as big as BW in korea Oh, this is a really good post http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288It's a bit outdated though, but it should still be somewhat relevant
oh man that blog post is amazing ... I had jolly good time reading through it .
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On March 02 2012 17:47 Itachii wrote:
You have to realize that BW in Korea isn't just another game, its something else, something special and unique with developed scene which works well for 11 years already.
And they're right about it, while SC2 is just another game with shiny graphics.
I remember a couple years ago Tossgirl was named as a leader for women in Korea, among many other female celebrities. It hit me right then and there that SC truly is something else in South Korea, not just because they are really good at it, but because it seems ingrained in the consciousness of a lot of citizens.
It's gonna be interesting to see if SC can maintain its popularity or whether SC2 will eventually take its place. Myself, I'd like it to continue to consolidate its status as a sport and continue to be played for many years to come.
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On March 02 2012 17:43 ArvickHero wrote:
SC2 had its chance, now LoL is taking it.
I think LoL is filling Dota's spot, and it isn't the kind of impossibly challenging game that BW was/is and is still lacking when compared to Starcraft 2's difficulty (which of course I know isn't anywhere close to BW's or vanilla's difficulty).
Basically I disagree whole heartedly that LoL could ever overtake or hope to fill the void left by BW.
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The blog that was linked multiple times above... is still highly relevant. I can't speak for the all the Koreans obviously, but I can speak for myself and my close friends who are keen on eSports. A few of us own SC2. None of us really play SC2 on a regular basis. There are odd times I log on to play custom games like Hero Attack and Element TD (both of which you can draw roots back to WC3). I also enjoyed the SC2 campaign but other than that, I think my time is better spent playing other things.
Most of us - the "Korean-Canadians" - either stayed with BW or moved on to LoL. There were divided opinions on this, but basically the consensus was that 1) Blizzard sucks 2) GOMTV sucks 3) SC2 doesn't feel very epic and 4) since I'm a casual I might as well play LoL with friends.
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The only thing SC2 and BW have in common (other than the name) is that they are both nearly dead in Korea now.
Maybe it will turn around with all the rumors of SC2 proleague etc but I'm beginning to doubt that since we have heard nothing concrete in forever, except cryptic tweet after tweet from FXO Boss
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Ok, LoL isn't filling in anything in Korea... most gamers in Korea have no idea what DOTA is anyway. They played Kaos or Chaos which wasn't even that competitive. So, LoL is pretty much the first huge MOBA game to hit Korea. It's a new genre, and people are loving it.
I agree with OpticalShot, I find absolutely 0 enjoyment playing SC2 as there aren't as much feeling of accomplishment as it was in BW. As a casual gamer, and long time BW player, (just like most Koreans) I don't want to focus and get good at another RTS game.. which requires dedication.. while BW comes quiet naturally already for most of us. The old thread by MrHoon says it all really.. go read it for those who havent!
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5003 Posts
On March 03 2012 00:19 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
Ok, LoL isn't filling in anything in Korea... most gamers in Korea have no idea what DOTA is anyway. They played Kaos or Chaos which wasn't even that competitive. So, LoL is pretty much the first huge MOBA game to hit Korea. It's a new genre, and people are loving it.
I agree with OpticalShot, I find absolutely 0 enjoyment playing SC2 as there aren't as much feeling of accomplishment as it was in BW. As a casual gamer, and long time BW player, (just like most Koreans) I don't want to focus and get good at another RTS game.. which requires dedication.. while BW comes quiet naturally already for most of us. The old thread by MrHoon says it all really.. go read it for those who havent!
http://gametrics.com/
LoL has only been growing. It's #2 today.
11% of people who play at PC Bangs are playing LoL. This is in addition to 5~% playing chaos using WC3, about 2% playing Chaos online.
MOBA is freaking huge in Korea. Even Chaos was freaking huge in Korea. 6%+ always played it.
EDIT: Sorry about my earlier comment, didn't read the post you were referring to (quote function is useful T_T)
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On March 02 2012 19:01 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 17:47 Xenocide_Knight wrote:its kinda like sc2 should have been the rightful heir to bw but because of everything that happened with blizzard and kespa, korea was kinda in a state of anarchy trying to find the right game to replace sc1. its like sc2 wants to go mainstream but cant because of the rights blizzard set on the game. Rightful heir my ass. No one trying to replace BW except for people who are only interested in making a quick buck. Corporations that contributed nothing to esports (blizzard), washed up/Bteam/retired/ex BW pros, non-korean progamers, etc. Maybe it's not as big as BW in korea On February 02 2012 23:36 IdrA wrote:
cuz its a shit game Oh, this is a really good post http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288It's a bit outdated though, but it should still be somewhat relevant Hey if SC2 lived up to the same standards we expected from BW then it would be the rightful heir. It should have been an improvement over BW, but it wasn't. Blizzard botched it, and now LoL is taking BWs place as stated.
Well to be fair even BW wasn't very good or competitive right away. Though I do have this sinking feeling that with time and more expansions SC2 isn't gonna get much better or more BW like, just more ridiculous with more of the "hey look at the giant stupid shiny units that make the game a giant pile of shit to play." I suppose you are right though, even if BW didn't start out great with SC2 they had all the knowledge of BW, but they let their egos get in the way by wanting to make something unique. And not just fallow in the footsteps of something that worked.
You know, it's actually very depressing knowing that I've played SC since before BW even came out, and saved up allowance to buy BW on the first day it came out, and that to this day I've never played a single game of 1v1 on BW and until SC2 beta I didn't even know there was such a thing as esports.
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I'm not the biggest sc2 fan, but LoL being bigger than sc2 just feels wrong man  .
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Koreans dominate in SC2 currently. That said, it doesn't matter if it takes off in Korea. It has taken off everywhere else and doesn't need Korea. It would be awesome if Korea could be included, but it really isn't needed as long as some of them play.
That said in SC:BW time, this would be 2000. Compared to 2000 StarCraft, BW is doing fine.
As far as the Dota/HoN/LoL games... ugh. Maybe if their communities got better they could grow. I feel that as a whole they are just a bunch of angst filled ragers. I have no interest in those games because of that.
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On March 02 2012 19:01 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 17:47 Xenocide_Knight wrote:its kinda like sc2 should have been the rightful heir to bw but because of everything that happened with blizzard and kespa, korea was kinda in a state of anarchy trying to find the right game to replace sc1. its like sc2 wants to go mainstream but cant because of the rights blizzard set on the game. Rightful heir my ass. No one trying to replace BW except for people who are only interested in making a quick buck. Corporations that contributed nothing to esports (blizzard), washed up/Bteam/retired/ex BW pros, non-korean progamers, etc. Maybe it's not as big as BW in korea On February 02 2012 23:36 IdrA wrote:
cuz its a shit game Oh, this is a really good post http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288It's a bit outdated though, but it should still be somewhat relevant Hey if SC2 lived up to the same standards we expected from BW then it would be the rightful heir. It should have been an improvement over BW, but it wasn't. Blizzard botched it, and now LoL is taking BWs place as stated.
They still have 2 more tries, and even then I wouldn't call Sc2 WoL a failure.... BW was the best PC game in the biggest PC progaming scene for 10+ years, thats a lot to live up to. Don't you remember Zerg in Starcraft 1?
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i can get Sc2 not filling in for BW, but what the fuck LoL? its not even THAT much better than original dota. i've never watched a MOBA game on stream (played a lot though), but i cant imagine it be that much better of a spectator sport compared to sc2?!?
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On March 02 2012 17:47 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +its kinda like sc2 should have been the rightful heir to bw but because of everything that happened with blizzard and kespa, korea was kinda in a state of anarchy trying to find the right game to replace sc1. its like sc2 wants to go mainstream but cant because of the rights blizzard set on the game. Rightful heir my ass. No one trying to replace BW except for people who are only interested in making a quick buck. Corporations that contributed nothing to esports (blizzard), washed up/Bteam/retired/ex BW pros, non-korean progamers, etc. Maybe it's not as big as BW in korea Oh, this is a really good post http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288It's a bit outdated though, but it should still be somewhat relevant
That was a good post...I especially like the part where MrHoon says:
The order should not be Esport → Everyone get's all competitive → Even my mom plays SC2!
NO! It should be the other fucking way around
Even my mom plays SC2! → Everyone get's all competitive → ESPORTS
...When you go to Korea and tell a bunch of casual gamers who played games for fun that 'this is the best new competitive game ever and your blood will boil', who the fuck would buy it?
That's probably why everyone loves LoL instead, its fundamentally about the game being *fun* to play. When I first started playing SC2 I felt like I was having a panic attack every time I hit the find game button
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United States1719 Posts
On March 03 2012 02:54 Railxp wrote:
i can get Sc2 not filling in for BW, but what the fuck LoL? its not even THAT much better than original dota. i've never watched a MOBA game on stream (played a lot though), but i cant imagine it be that much better of a spectator sport compared to sc2?!?
i tried watching LoL and it's actually pretty fun to watch, plus it helps that the commentators don't suck donkey d ! ( |<
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This is what happens when you don't understand all your markets.
F2P MOBA is huge as Milkis pointed out. Sorry guys, the industry is changing.
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On March 03 2012 00:19 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
Ok, LoL isn't filling in anything in Korea... most gamers in Korea have no idea what DOTA is anyway. They played Kaos or Chaos which wasn't even that competitive. So, LoL is pretty much the first huge MOBA game to hit Korea. It's a new genre, and people are loving it.
I agree with OpticalShot, I find absolutely 0 enjoyment playing SC2 as there aren't as much feeling of accomplishment as it was in BW. As a casual gamer, and long time BW player, (just like most Koreans) I don't want to focus and get good at another RTS game.. which requires dedication.. while BW comes quiet naturally already for most of us. The old thread by MrHoon says it all really.. go read it for those who havent!
Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious here, is it hard enough to require dedication but too easy to give you a feeling of accomplishment? I don't understand... Seems pretty contradictory.
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On March 03 2012 04:41 Nible wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 00:19 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
Ok, LoL isn't filling in anything in Korea... most gamers in Korea have no idea what DOTA is anyway. They played Kaos or Chaos which wasn't even that competitive. So, LoL is pretty much the first huge MOBA game to hit Korea. It's a new genre, and people are loving it.
I agree with OpticalShot, I find absolutely 0 enjoyment playing SC2 as there aren't as much feeling of accomplishment as it was in BW. As a casual gamer, and long time BW player, (just like most Koreans) I don't want to focus and get good at another RTS game.. which requires dedication.. while BW comes quiet naturally already for most of us. The old thread by MrHoon says it all really.. go read it for those who havent! Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious here, is it hard enough to require dedication but too easy to give you a feeling of accomplishment? I don't understand... Seems pretty contradictory.
You haven't played both games have you? It's hard to explain with words. Something about sc2 feels so shallow in comparison.
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On March 03 2012 04:57 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 04:41 Nible wrote:On March 03 2012 00:19 ExceeD_DreaM wrote:
Ok, LoL isn't filling in anything in Korea... most gamers in Korea have no idea what DOTA is anyway. They played Kaos or Chaos which wasn't even that competitive. So, LoL is pretty much the first huge MOBA game to hit Korea. It's a new genre, and people are loving it.
I agree with OpticalShot, I find absolutely 0 enjoyment playing SC2 as there aren't as much feeling of accomplishment as it was in BW. As a casual gamer, and long time BW player, (just like most Koreans) I don't want to focus and get good at another RTS game.. which requires dedication.. while BW comes quiet naturally already for most of us. The old thread by MrHoon says it all really.. go read it for those who havent! Forgive me if I'm missing something obvious here, is it hard enough to require dedication but too easy to give you a feeling of accomplishment? I don't understand... Seems pretty contradictory. You haven't played both games have you? It's hard to explain with words. Something about sc2 feels so shallow in comparison.
No I haven't, tried to play BW once but I couldn't find someone to play with. I really understand people saying the game is so hard, it was hard to even find a game. 
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On March 03 2012 04:57 Xenocide_Knight wrote:
You haven't played both games have you? It's hard to explain with words. Something about sc2 feels so shallow in comparison.
This may sound very stupid ... but to me, part of it is that there is only one level of fog of war in SC2: The map is completely revealed from the get-go, and it doesn't feel like you're exploring anything. For the new player, that's a huge departure from WC2 and BW (I never played WC3). I remember as a kid the first times firing up WC2 and SC, and something about it was just engrossing.
I still enjoy SC2 because it is a good strategy game and I have fun playing it, but it lacks a certain mystique that Blizzard's earlier games had. There's no electric Blizzard logo on startup, instead you see a silent loading screen and a login form right away. Even connecting to a server felt like you were going somewhere in BW. And the music and sound effects, from the menus to the gameplay, were much more refined and interesting.
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oh god it's bad enough that my friends are picking up LoL, but now Korea as well? And over sc2? the fuck is going on. i would have assumed that bw players who have honed gosu skills in bw would be turned off by such a casual game like lol.
guys we gotta pray and pray hard that blizzard doesnt fuck it up more and comes up with GOSU expansions that take this game to new heights. WoL is not gonna cut it AT ALL if they really want a game with super competition and high skill.
seriously all is riding on these expansions.
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On March 03 2012 06:18 Golgotha wrote:
oh god it's bad enough that my friends are picking up LoL, but now Korea as well? And over sc2? the fuck is going on. i would have assumed that bw players who have honed gosu skills in bw would be turned off by such a casual game like lol.
guys we gotta pray and pray hard that blizzard doesnt fuck it up more and comes up with GOSU expansions that take this game to new heights. WoL is not gonna cut it AT ALL if they really want a game with super competition and high skill.
seriously all is riding on these expansions.
All the 'gosu' korean BW players are turned off by the casualness of LOL, but then they are of sc2 as well. They still play BW for the most part.
its the casual part of Korea (most of it tbh) which embraces lol.
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United States1719 Posts
On March 03 2012 06:18 Golgotha wrote:
oh god it's bad enough that my friends are picking up LoL, but now Korea as well? And over sc2? the fuck is going on. i would have assumed that bw players who have honed gosu skills in bw would be turned off by such a casual game like lol.
guys we gotta pray and pray hard that blizzard doesnt fuck it up more and comes up with GOSU expansions that take this game to new heights. WoL is not gonna cut it AT ALL if they really want a game with super competition and high skill.
seriously all is riding on these expansions.
TBH I would play/watch LoL over SC2; it's just plain fun, while the latter is not. BW didn't become popular because it was a hard game, it took off because it was fun. Only after the esports scene matured did all this analysis on the high skill ceiling kick in. I would never play casual SC2 with my friends for fun: the actual gameplay feels linear in progression, and the focus seems to be on ladder rankings over fun,
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On March 03 2012 07:06 rotinegg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 06:18 Golgotha wrote:
oh god it's bad enough that my friends are picking up LoL, but now Korea as well? And over sc2? the fuck is going on. i would have assumed that bw players who have honed gosu skills in bw would be turned off by such a casual game like lol.
guys we gotta pray and pray hard that blizzard doesnt fuck it up more and comes up with GOSU expansions that take this game to new heights. WoL is not gonna cut it AT ALL if they really want a game with super competition and high skill.
seriously all is riding on these expansions. TBH I would play/watch LoL over SC2; it's just plain fun, while the latter is not. BW didn't become popular because it was a hard game, it took off because it was fun. Only after the esports scene matured did all this analysis on the high skill ceiling kick in. I would never play casual SC2 with my friends for fun: the actual gameplay feels linear in progression, and the focus seems to be on ladder rankings over fun,
Maybe I should watch some LoL, but with DOTA and HoN it has mostly just been rage and really uninteresting 'and now they are still in the lane phase...'. *Shrug* Not sure what you mean by linear in a multiplayer RTS game. That pretty much has to be linear. There isn't another way it can be done. You might just want to ya know play the game for fun and ignore the ladder. It isn't really relevant.
I will give LoL a look though. And I hope it is better than HoN casts/games :/
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Netherlands45349 Posts
I'm going to confess that in the off-season, I tried out StarCraft 2 and League of Legends. I was so surprised when I first played StarCraft 2. I couldn't believe that such an easy game exists. Same with League of Legends. I guess the best way to attract people these days is to make things easy and simple."
keke Midas
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Vancouver14381 Posts
On March 03 2012 14:01 MattyClutch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 07:06 rotinegg wrote:On March 03 2012 06:18 Golgotha wrote:
oh god it's bad enough that my friends are picking up LoL, but now Korea as well? And over sc2? the fuck is going on. i would have assumed that bw players who have honed gosu skills in bw would be turned off by such a casual game like lol.
guys we gotta pray and pray hard that blizzard doesnt fuck it up more and comes up with GOSU expansions that take this game to new heights. WoL is not gonna cut it AT ALL if they really want a game with super competition and high skill.
seriously all is riding on these expansions. TBH I would play/watch LoL over SC2; it's just plain fun, while the latter is not. BW didn't become popular because it was a hard game, it took off because it was fun. Only after the esports scene matured did all this analysis on the high skill ceiling kick in. I would never play casual SC2 with my friends for fun: the actual gameplay feels linear in progression, and the focus seems to be on ladder rankings over fun, Maybe I should watch some LoL, but with DOTA and HoN it has mostly just been rage and really uninteresting 'and now they are still in the lane phase...'. *Shrug* Not sure what you mean by linear in a multiplayer RTS game. That pretty much has to be linear. There isn't another way it can be done. You might just want to ya know play the game for fun and ignore the ladder. It isn't really relevant. I will give LoL a look though. And I hope it is better than HoN casts/games :/
You can come to the LoL subforum (subtle hijack). Although realistically LoL has the same 'uninteresting' problems as Dota and HoN - maybe even more so since most would say that LoL promotes more passive play than the other two. There are plenty of ragers in LoL but maybe it's not as noticeable since the playerbase is pretty big and there are a lot of people just trying out the genre for the first time.
If you want some exciting commentary, watch the Korean casts. English casters just don't seem to have the enthusiasm and excitability of Korean casters.
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konadora
Singapore66163 Posts
i've been to PC bangs a few times while i was in korea last month, let me tell you no one plays SC2
and there are a lot of ppl playing MMORPGs -and casual BW (like 3v3 bgh etc etc) and LoL
only these
and sometimes random gostop games lol
sc2 will never be mainstream
edit: woops forgot kart rider and sudden attack lol
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On March 03 2012 07:06 rotinegg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 06:18 Golgotha wrote:
oh god it's bad enough that my friends are picking up LoL, but now Korea as well? And over sc2? the fuck is going on. i would have assumed that bw players who have honed gosu skills in bw would be turned off by such a casual game like lol.
guys we gotta pray and pray hard that blizzard doesnt fuck it up more and comes up with GOSU expansions that take this game to new heights. WoL is not gonna cut it AT ALL if they really want a game with super competition and high skill.
seriously all is riding on these expansions. TBH I would play/watch LoL over SC2; it's just plain fun, while the latter is not. BW didn't become popular because it was a hard game, it took off because it was fun. Only after the esports scene matured did all this analysis on the high skill ceiling kick in. I would never play casual SC2 with my friends for fun: the actual gameplay feels linear in progression, and the focus seems to be on ladder rankings over fun,
Yea, another thing we have to remember is that people didn't start playing BW like "oh man, I'm only D- now but one day I'm going to be yellow ranks!" Even growing up with koreans who I now know are B-ish level, it was just like
"Hey you wanna play some SC?"
"Aw yea man lets play BGH"
"Sweet, I'm going to proxy hatch sunken rush!"
"Nice! I'll do 1 base carrier LOL"
It's just fun. For us, there was no standard meta, no rankings, no "cheese" or "tryhard". Everything was just fun. Builds where whatever allowed us to make whatever units we felt like making.
LoL has the same feel. I just hop on skype, grab some friends, invite some over, everyone picks their favorite champ, and bam. Good times. SC2 is kinda fun but inevitably, it becomes "Oh man, we got placed into xx league? Shit, we need to get to at least xx league asap"
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I think another reason SC2 hasnt taken off even with more casuals in korea is that in starcarft 1, the gaming cafes could buy a copy of sc1 install it on a few machines and any top dick and harry could walk in off the streets and create an account and play.... for free with starcraft 2, you have to buy multiple copies of the games at the cafe and generally every single person who then wants to play in the cafe needs to buy the game to even be able to play and log in on their account... As the guest passes etc dont last for very long...
Blizzard have shot themselves in the foot in that retrospect... and only interested in making money.
When you can play LoL and HoN( I Think) for free?? What are the casuals escpecially in the way the financial climate is these days going to play??? I know its not a lot to buy sc2 but still if you can get the same enjoyment out fo game a and b for free and game c costs money on top fo any cafe fees then you know that the casuals are far less liekly to even try sc2...
Also doesnt help that ex bw and current BW players wanted sc2 to fail from th the start, hasnt helped it but still internationally sc2 is doing well justa shame its not in Korea!!!
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Rant about Blizzard incoming:
Blizzard has really gone down the drain. The only reason SC2 was good (highly rated and all that, not comparing to BW) was because Blizzard had twice the amount of time to polish it than most other AAA titles. The impression I have of Blizzard is not that it's really greedy (because let's face it, companies have to be profit-driven - if you think otherwise, you're delusional), but that it's become a cumbersome bureaucratic behemoth that can't agilely develop anymore and overestimates its influence. There have been so many missteps, both managerial and technical, at Blizzard and it's not acting fast enough to correct them.
Blizzard has been really schizophrenic about its goals for SC2. They want to make it an e-sport, but they're also treating it like a typical game - high price, skeletal support crew (Bnet hello?), relatively little PR after release. That's a model that works for COD or games that have sequel after sequel. But that doesn't work for an e-sport. I bet Riot Games had like twice the staff dedicated to supporting LoL and promoting its e-sports potential than Blizzard last year (Blizzard is claiming a more direct involvement this year, but I'll believe it when I see it) - and that company is dwarfed by Blizzard. Either that or Blizzard has become so bureaucratic that the support/e-sports team can't run efficiently. Or maybe that team is incompetent. Who knows?
So in hindsight, the fact that Blizzard has screwed the pooch with Korea is not surprising.
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On March 03 2012 19:14 Tommylew wrote:
I think another reason SC2 hasnt taken off even with more casuals in korea is that in starcarft 1, the gaming cafes could buy a copy of sc1 install it on a few machines and any top dick and harry could walk in off the streets and create an account and play.... for free with starcraft 2, you have to buy multiple copies of the games at the cafe and generally every single person who then wants to play in the cafe needs to buy the game to even be able to play and log in on their account... As the guest passes etc dont last for very long...
Blizzard have shot themselves in the foot in that retrospect... and only interested in making money.
When you can play LoL and HoN( I Think) for free?? What are the casuals escpecially in the way the financial climate is these days going to play??? I know its not a lot to buy sc2 but still if you can get the same enjoyment out fo game a and b for free and game c costs money on top fo any cafe fees then you know that the casuals are far less liekly to even try sc2...
Also doesnt help that ex bw and current BW players wanted sc2 to fail from th the start, hasnt helped it but still internationally sc2 is doing well justa shame its not in Korea!!!
It’s not that BW players/fans wanted to SC2 to fail from the start. This is such a stupid statement and I can’t believe that ppl still believe this to be true. I can tell you that BW fans were way more exited than your average gamer. But when the game was released many felt that the game was shallow, generic and catered towards casual gamers, in other words, not as fun as the original.
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konadora
Singapore66163 Posts
On March 03 2012 20:20 gn0m wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 19:14 Tommylew wrote:
I think another reason SC2 hasnt taken off even with more casuals in korea is that in starcarft 1, the gaming cafes could buy a copy of sc1 install it on a few machines and any top dick and harry could walk in off the streets and create an account and play.... for free with starcraft 2, you have to buy multiple copies of the games at the cafe and generally every single person who then wants to play in the cafe needs to buy the game to even be able to play and log in on their account... As the guest passes etc dont last for very long...
Blizzard have shot themselves in the foot in that retrospect... and only interested in making money.
When you can play LoL and HoN( I Think) for free?? What are the casuals escpecially in the way the financial climate is these days going to play??? I know its not a lot to buy sc2 but still if you can get the same enjoyment out fo game a and b for free and game c costs money on top fo any cafe fees then you know that the casuals are far less liekly to even try sc2...
Also doesnt help that ex bw and current BW players wanted sc2 to fail from th the start, hasnt helped it but still internationally sc2 is doing well justa shame its not in Korea!!! It’s not that BW players/fans wanted to SC2 to fail from the start. This is such a stupid statement and I can’t believe that ppl still believe this to be true. I can tell you that BW fans were way more exited than your average gamer. But when the game was released many felt that the game was shallow, generic and catered towards casual gamers, in other words, not as fun as the original.
qft
i remember rushing down to get my hands on the copy on the first day of sale here, went home and rushed through the campaign without sleeping and played some games
after that, i felt it was shit and only played it for nexus wars and desert strike
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afaik SC2 has much worse age restrictions in korea than it got in the rest of the world. This coupled with the aforementioned fact that SC2 needs a new copy for each computer which makes it a much more costly investment for PC Bangs is in my opinion the biggest reason why SC2 did not take off so strongly with the koreans. These two things and the at the start of SC2 stronger BW scene than what it now is are the reasons why SC2 was not able to get the same amount of players it got in the rest of the world.
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United States7639 Posts
On March 03 2012 16:17 konadora wrote:
i've been to PC bangs a few times while i was in korea last month, let me tell you no one plays SC2
and there are a lot of ppl playing MMORPGs -and casual BW (like 3v3 bgh etc etc) and LoL
only these
and sometimes random gostop games lol
sc2 will never be mainstream
edit: woops forgot kart rider and sudden attack lol
Haha, my PC bang experiences were more like... 50% FIFA online (??? I don't get it, wtf is so great about this game), 20% some MMO, 10% some FPS, 10% BW, 5% LoL, 5% WC3 mods.
There actually were a few people playing SC2 my first time, but I never saw anyone after that.
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^^ FIFA is actually quite big interms of player playing, dont know about it from an e-sports perspective, but it's the game that gets a lot of tournaments around here(along with need for speed). Probably because it's easy to understand for the average mainstream person. The slightly more hardcore gamers play dota/cs/warcraft.
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United States1719 Posts
On March 03 2012 20:20 gn0m wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 19:14 Tommylew wrote:
I think another reason SC2 hasnt taken off even with more casuals in korea is that in starcarft 1, the gaming cafes could buy a copy of sc1 install it on a few machines and any top dick and harry could walk in off the streets and create an account and play.... for free with starcraft 2, you have to buy multiple copies of the games at the cafe and generally every single person who then wants to play in the cafe needs to buy the game to even be able to play and log in on their account... As the guest passes etc dont last for very long...
Blizzard have shot themselves in the foot in that retrospect... and only interested in making money.
When you can play LoL and HoN( I Think) for free?? What are the casuals escpecially in the way the financial climate is these days going to play??? I know its not a lot to buy sc2 but still if you can get the same enjoyment out fo game a and b for free and game c costs money on top fo any cafe fees then you know that the casuals are far less liekly to even try sc2...
Also doesnt help that ex bw and current BW players wanted sc2 to fail from th the start, hasnt helped it but still internationally sc2 is doing well justa shame its not in Korea!!! It’s not that BW players/fans wanted to SC2 to fail from the start. This is such a stupid statement and I can’t believe that ppl still believe this to be true. I can tell you that BW fans were way more exited than your average gamer. But when the game was released many felt that the game was shallow, generic and catered towards casual gamers, in other words, not as fun as the original.
I would have never spent $60 on the game if I wasn't excited for it. I was so upset and let down by the game that I ended up giving my account away to my friend, who also quit after playing for one season.
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On March 03 2012 20:20 gn0m wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 19:14 Tommylew wrote:
I think another reason SC2 hasnt taken off even with more casuals in korea is that in starcarft 1, the gaming cafes could buy a copy of sc1 install it on a few machines and any top dick and harry could walk in off the streets and create an account and play.... for free with starcraft 2, you have to buy multiple copies of the games at the cafe and generally every single person who then wants to play in the cafe needs to buy the game to even be able to play and log in on their account... As the guest passes etc dont last for very long...
Blizzard have shot themselves in the foot in that retrospect... and only interested in making money.
When you can play LoL and HoN( I Think) for free?? What are the casuals escpecially in the way the financial climate is these days going to play??? I know its not a lot to buy sc2 but still if you can get the same enjoyment out fo game a and b for free and game c costs money on top fo any cafe fees then you know that the casuals are far less liekly to even try sc2...
Also doesnt help that ex bw and current BW players wanted sc2 to fail from th the start, hasnt helped it but still internationally sc2 is doing well justa shame its not in Korea!!! It’s not that BW players/fans wanted to SC2 to fail from the start. This is such a stupid statement and I can’t believe that ppl still believe this to be true. I can tell you that BW fans were way more exited than your average gamer. But when the game was released many felt that the game was shallow, generic and catered towards casual gamers, in other words, not as fun as the original.
qft, SC2 turned out to be too big letdown for me to actually gather my attention even still in beta stages.
And let's be real, it's international success comes from money put into promotion/sponsors, not the game being great and making everyone want to play it.I know these 2 things are connected, but you get the idea.
$$>game itself
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On March 04 2012 00:02 rotinegg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 20:20 gn0m wrote:On March 03 2012 19:14 Tommylew wrote:
I think another reason SC2 hasnt taken off even with more casuals in korea is that in starcarft 1, the gaming cafes could buy a copy of sc1 install it on a few machines and any top dick and harry could walk in off the streets and create an account and play.... for free with starcraft 2, you have to buy multiple copies of the games at the cafe and generally every single person who then wants to play in the cafe needs to buy the game to even be able to play and log in on their account... As the guest passes etc dont last for very long...
Blizzard have shot themselves in the foot in that retrospect... and only interested in making money.
When you can play LoL and HoN( I Think) for free?? What are the casuals escpecially in the way the financial climate is these days going to play??? I know its not a lot to buy sc2 but still if you can get the same enjoyment out fo game a and b for free and game c costs money on top fo any cafe fees then you know that the casuals are far less liekly to even try sc2...
Also doesnt help that ex bw and current BW players wanted sc2 to fail from th the start, hasnt helped it but still internationally sc2 is doing well justa shame its not in Korea!!! It’s not that BW players/fans wanted to SC2 to fail from the start. This is such a stupid statement and I can’t believe that ppl still believe this to be true. I can tell you that BW fans were way more exited than your average gamer. But when the game was released many felt that the game was shallow, generic and catered towards casual gamers, in other words, not as fun as the original. I would have never spent $60 on the game if I wasn't excited for it. I was so upset and let down by the game that I ended up giving my account away to my friend, who also quit after playing for one season.
same situation with my korean roommate. he started out playing bw, saw me playing sc2, bought sc2 and returned to bw after 1 week.
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On March 03 2012 00:33 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 19:01 Plexa wrote:On March 02 2012 17:47 Xenocide_Knight wrote:its kinda like sc2 should have been the rightful heir to bw but because of everything that happened with blizzard and kespa, korea was kinda in a state of anarchy trying to find the right game to replace sc1. its like sc2 wants to go mainstream but cant because of the rights blizzard set on the game. Rightful heir my ass. No one trying to replace BW except for people who are only interested in making a quick buck. Corporations that contributed nothing to esports (blizzard), washed up/Bteam/retired/ex BW pros, non-korean progamers, etc. Maybe it's not as big as BW in korea On February 02 2012 23:36 IdrA wrote:
cuz its a shit game Oh, this is a really good post http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=142288It's a bit outdated though, but it should still be somewhat relevant Hey if SC2 lived up to the same standards we expected from BW then it would be the rightful heir. It should have been an improvement over BW, but it wasn't. Blizzard botched it, and now LoL is taking BWs place as stated. Well to be fair even BW wasn't very good or competitive right away. Though I do have this sinking feeling that with time and more expansions SC2 isn't gonna get much better or more BW like, just more ridiculous with more of the "hey look at the giant stupid shiny units that make the game a giant pile of shit to play." I suppose you are right though, even if BW didn't start out great with SC2 they had all the knowledge of BW, but they let their egos get in the way by wanting to make something unique. And not just fallow in the footsteps of something that worked. You know, it's actually very depressing knowing that I've played SC since before BW even came out, and saved up allowance to buy BW on the first day it came out, and that to this day I've never played a single game of 1v1 on BW and until SC2 beta I didn't even know there was such a thing as esports.
Wait, so you're telling me BW wasn't very good or competitive in the start yet you never played a single 1v1 even though you had the box and you never knew about this scene until the SC2 beta?
Excuse me while I pick my jaw off the floor. You couldn't be more wrong. BW let alone Vanilla SC was ridiculously competitive even back then. You know not of what you speak.
-_-
lbmaian,
I remember the time when the news got out that Activision was acquiring Blizzard and so many people were happy. There was still a number of vets who weren't too thrilled about it and thought it was the beginning of the end.
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I remember the time when the news got out that Activision was acquiring Blizzard and so many people were happy. There was still a number of vets who weren't too thrilled about it and thought it was the beginning of the end.
They actually had the audacity to claim that the acquisition would not change anything at Blizzard. ROFLMAO.
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I was only excited when they announced it in 2007.
I was like "Wow finally Starcraft 2!!!!"
Then I saw their demo with Colossus and some others stuff, and it just didn't feel right.
Never got beta, but saw games and clips on youtube and didn't like it.
Never bought the game. (I'm glad I didn't)
To be honest, SC2 exceeded my expectation on how it fared in US/Europe, but I'm not surprised that it flopped in Korea.
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EPT
