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On February 01 2012 21:25 deathly rat wrote:
Did YOU read your own post?
Yes, I did. You didn't offer me an example of such a belief. If you want an actual example of such a belief see the poster above you who actually did offer one. Your belief example makes truth claims and so relates to logic and reason.
To make it perfectly clear: claiming that there is a deistic god that is unreachable by science that does not interact with the world in anyway is unverifiable but is also a claim for which evidence cannot be offered, even in theory. It's a totally moot proposition.
Claiming certain acts are sinful is a truth claim that inherently requires evidence in order to be believed. If you assert a truth claim that has real consequences in the world, it requires evidence of some kind in order to compel belief.
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On February 01 2012 21:28 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:25 deathly rat wrote:On February 01 2012 21:07 IgnE wrote:On February 01 2012 20:54 deathly rat wrote:On February 01 2012 19:17 IgnE wrote:
Give me an example of the kind of beliefs that are unfalsifiable and unrelated to reason or logic but that someone might still want to hold with no negative repercussions. Not my belief, but for example...In Christianity they believe that you will be judged on your sins after you die. This is as good a reason as I have heard for living a moral life and being kind to strangers. No that's idiotic. Besides being quite net negative for individuals, resulting in massive guilt for performing normal human activities like sexual intercourse, eating well, and indulging in life, any belief that sets out what activities qualify as sinful makes truth claims that are unverifiable and therefore spurious. Not to mention bogus and unverifiable claims about an afterlife. Did you follow the argument at all in this thread? This thread is full of rambling personal beliefs and nonsense logic, but when you make a simple question as you did, it is actually possible to analyse a preposition without getting distracted by the typical side tracks (as you have tried to introduce). My statement did not imply that sex, eating well or ""indulging in life" is sinful, (and out of interest neither would most Christians). next "any belief that sets out what activities qualify as sinful makes truth claims that are unverifiable" - My actions may or may not be benevolent, but they don't make truth claims. For example, it is sinful to murder and steal, and it is kind to give to charity and recycle your plastic. What truth claims am I making? You claim that murdering and stealing are sinful. Sinful acts are associated with punishment in an afterlife. Setting aside your totally unsubstantiated belief in an afterlife, how do you know that there is punishment in the afterlife for such acts? I'll answer for you. You don't know, you just believe it's so with no evidence or testable hypothesis for finding out. You are just as crazy as someone who believes he is going to hell for walking on sidewalk cracks. There's literally no logical difference in the two beliefs. But I'm sure you would agree that someone who thinks he's going to hell because walking on a crack in the sidewalk is sinful is crazy. Sinful =/= Immoral. Claiming something is sinful is making a truth claim about the act.
I note you have stopped arguing the below point
On February 01 2012 19:17 IgnE wrote:
Give me an example of the kind of beliefs that are unfalsifiable and unrelated to reason or logic but that someone might still want to hold with no negative repercussions.
and moved onto trying to prove religious beliefs by testing evidence, of which I have no interest. I assume you retract the previous preposition. Have a good day, and chill out.
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On February 01 2012 21:41 deathly rat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 19:17 IgnE wrote:
Give me an example of the kind of beliefs that are unfalsifiable and unrelated to reason or logic but that someone might still want to hold with no negative repercussions. and moved onto trying to prove religious beliefs by testing evidence, of which I have no interest. I assume you retract the previous preposition. Have a good day, and chill out.
I responded in the post above this one. The post you are quoting of mine was directed at someone else and he understood what I meant and offered a moot claim that satisfied the criteria I was looking for. That is, a claim that didn't require evidence for it be believed. I retract the wording, but you haven't really made an argument other than to point out that my wording wasn't clear. The wording should have been: "Give me an example of the kind of beliefs that do not require evidence to be believed but that someone might still want to hold."
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Do you think if you had been born in Iran you would be a Christian?
If that question was directed towards me, I'd answer:
No, I surely wouldn't be Christian. But I'd still believe in the same god. I'd just use a different name for him and would use different means to pray to him. In the end, Christianity, Judaism and Islam are the same religion, just in.... different flavours. Jesus is a prophet in the Islam religion. Christianity is heavily based on Judaism. Islam is based on Judaism and Christianity. They are in many parts the same belief adjusted to different cultures.
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On February 01 2012 21:50 AMaidensWrath wrote:If that question was directed towards me, I'd answer: No, I surely wouldn't be Christian. But I'd still believe in the same god. I'd just use a different name for him and would use different means to pray to him. In the end, Christianity, Judaism and Islam are the same religion, just in.... different flavours. Jesus is a prophet in the Islam religion. Christianity is heavily based on Judaism. Islam is based on Judaism and Christianity. They are in many parts the same belief adjusted to different cultures.
And yet each of the religions and all of its practitioners hold conflicting beliefs about this "same god." Who is correct? If you think god doesn't care about who is correct how do you know that he doesn't care? Many people would disagree that he doesn't care. You believe it's so. Oh right.
But you are right about god, those other people who say he sends non-believers to hell are incorrect. Those people who say its sinful not to fast during Ramadan are wrong. Those people who say its sinful to use condoms are wrong. But you are right. Because you believe and are "tolerant." And you know god is "tolerant" too.
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On February 01 2012 20:17 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 20:06 Tyrran wrote:On February 01 2012 19:40 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
I agree from a purely scientific standpoint it is indeed fairly meaningless, you can't use it to model anything useful that the simpler, razor compliant, version would not. But if the more complicated theory is still perfectly consistent with reality AND makes you feel happy, it'd almost be irrational not to believe that one instead.
What really is meaningless is to approach religion from a scientific standpoint  . The goal of religion is no longer to tell us how the world was created and/or to make so called 'truth claim', i dont even think it ever was its goal ( but i agree it is sometime used a such, which is wrong IMHO). Religion nowadays is a way of life, a message on how you should live your life, a guide on what you should or should not do. You are free not to beleive in this message. You are free not to follow it. However, some people beleive in it, and act accordingly to it. They see God's hand where other people see coincidence and/or randomness. They see God influence when they see someone smile. They try they best to care about other people, they pardon, they share and they are happy to do it. Sure you migth say that you dont need religion to do it. But dont blame religious people for doing it. ( You are however allowed to blame religious people for making retarded claim about how the world was created :p ) People should stop thinking religion is stupid because there is no scientific proof behind it. It only proove that they know nothing about what religion is today. Show me a religion that doesn't make truth claims about the world. Does it involve praying? Does it involve educated religious leaders saying what God wants? Does it involve God actually performing miracles in defiance of the laws of the physics? If it doesn't what is it? Don't call a philosophical viewpoint about life a "religion." The two are very different and it doesn't help anyone to equate philosophy with spirituality/religion.
I do not intend to start a huge discussion about how I see and live religion. At least not in this blog ( sorry OP for derailing a bit your thread). However these are interesting questions that deserve an anwser. I'll try to be short.
Show me a religion that doesn't make truth claims about the world.
Ever since I was born, I dont remember going to a mess where a truth claim was made about the world. I know some people use religion to make truth claim ( e.g. creationnists). I'll stand my ground and say that it is not the goal of religion to do so. Sure you can find many 'truth claim' in the bible. But I have learned a long time ago that what is written in the bible is not to be taken litteraly.
Does it involve praying?
Yes it does. I do pray. I pray god to give me the strengh i need to help other, to forgive me for what I have done wrong and to help me not to do it again. I pray god to give other the strengh they need to overcome obstacle they meet in life.
Does it involve educated religious leaders saying what God wants?
Yes it does. However religious leader are not blessed with the "thruth". The goal of 'educated religious leader' (in my case, priest or pastor) is to explain how the philosophy preached by the bible apply to real life problems. In most case, it is interesting, sometimes enligthening. But i've heard bad priest, and I even sometimes disagreed with some.
Does it involve God actually performing miracles in defiance of the laws of the physics?
No. Once again, the bible is not to be taken litterally.
Don't call a philosophical viewpoint about life a "religion." The two are very different and it doesn't help anyone to equate philosophy with spirituality/religion.
Quite frankly, when i hear people talking about religion, I often wish they would see it as a philosophy rather than a Science. They are way more similarities between religion and philosophy than between religion and science.
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On February 01 2012 21:41 deathly rat wrote:
My actions may or may not be benevolent, but they don't make truth claims. For example, it is sinful to murder and steal, and it is kind to give to charity and recycle your plastic. What truth claims am I making?
I noticed you stopped arguing that point though.
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On February 01 2012 21:56 Tyrran wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 01 2012 20:17 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 20:06 Tyrran wrote:On February 01 2012 19:40 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
I agree from a purely scientific standpoint it is indeed fairly meaningless, you can't use it to model anything useful that the simpler, razor compliant, version would not. But if the more complicated theory is still perfectly consistent with reality AND makes you feel happy, it'd almost be irrational not to believe that one instead.
What really is meaningless is to approach religion from a scientific standpoint . The goal of religion is no longer to tell us how the world was created and/or to make so called 'truth claim', i dont even think it ever was its goal ( but i agree it is sometime used a such, which is wrong IMHO). Religion nowadays is a way of life, a message on how you should live your life, a guide on what you should or should not do. You are free not to beleive in this message. You are free not to follow it. However, some people beleive in it, and act accordingly to it. They see God's hand where other people see coincidence and/or randomness. They see God influence when they see someone smile. They try they best to care about other people, they pardon, they share and they are happy to do it. Sure you migth say that you dont need religion to do it. But dont blame religious people for doing it. ( You are however allowed to blame religious people for making retarded claim about how the world was created :p ) People should stop thinking religion is stupid because there is no scientific proof behind it. It only proove that they know nothing about what religion is today. Show me a religion that doesn't make truth claims about the world. Does it involve praying? Does it involve educated religious leaders saying what God wants? Does it involve God actually performing miracles in defiance of the laws of the physics? If it doesn't what is it? Don't call a philosophical viewpoint about life a "religion." The two are very different and it doesn't help anyone to equate philosophy with spirituality/religion. I do not intend to start a huge discussion about how I see and live religion. At least not in this blog ( sorry OP for derailing a bit your thread). However these are interesting questions that deserve an anwser. I'll try to be short. Show me a religion that doesn't make truth claims about the world. Ever since I was born, I dont remember going to a mess where a truth claim was made about the world. I know some people use religion to make truth claim ( e.g. creationnists). I'll stand my ground and say that it is not the goal of religion to do so. Sure you can find many 'truth claim' in the bible. But I have learned a long time ago that what is written in the bible is not to be taken litteraly. Does it involve praying?Yes it does. I do pray. I pray god to give me the strengh i need to help other, to forgive me for what I have done wrong and to help me not to do it again. I pray god to give other the strengh they need to overcome obstacle they meet in life. Does it involve educated religious leaders saying what God wants?Yes it does. However religious leader are not blessed with the "thruth". The goal of 'educated religious leader' (in my case, priest or pastor) is to explain how the philosophy preached by the bible apply to real life problems. In most case, it is interesting, sometimes enligthening. But i've heard bad priest, and I even sometimes disagreed with some. Does it involve God actually performing miracles in defiance of the laws of the physics? No. Once again, the bible is not to be taken litterally. Don't call a philosophical viewpoint about life a "religion." The two are very different and it doesn't help anyone to equate philosophy with spirituality/religion.Quite frankly, when i hear people talking about religion, I often wish they would see it as a philosophy rather than a Science. They are way more similarities between religion and philosophy than between religion and science.
If you pray, you are making truth claims about the world. You believe that god directly intervenes in daily life to tell you things, breaking the laws of physics and directly communicating with you in your head. That's a truth claim.
Also implicit in all this are the truth claims that: you have a soul, you will enter into an afterlife when you die, that the bible was communicated to people by god similar to the way he communicates to you through prayer, that you can know what god wants for us, that god exists at all (perhaps the most common truth claim in any religion).
None of those are substantiated with a shred of evidence. So I think you are mistaken.
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^
^ Well, that didn't happen. I have no evidence or information on my-life-had-I-been-born-in-Iran, so it is unreasonable to suggest I know anything about what I would be like, had that happened. However I do believe that God reveals himself to everyone in different ways throughout their lives, and while it's hard there are still Christian converts in Iran.
And ^ AMaidensWrath, I will respectfully disagree and say they are far more divergent than just different flavors. Albeit the same roots (Abraham and his descendants etc) there is little kingship between Judaism and what the Prophet Mohammed told people it was OK to do to Jews (kill 'em). The most important feature of any religion IMO is 'how you reach God', to me that's what defines if it's worth following or not. [justified = made just before God, that he accepts you as his own and no longer holds your sin against you]
Judaism you are justified by your obedience of the laws of Moses; since none can NEVER have fault and be utterly blameless, and follow the law perfectly, you're pretty screwed.
Christianity you are justified by your acceptance of the Gospel Message and the saving grace of Christ. It's free, but sure not easy.
Islam (I must learn more) is similar to Judaism in that you are justified by your conformity to the 5 pillars and obedience to the teachings of Mohammed.
They are radically different, albeit similar roots. I don't actually know the history of what religious group became the first Muslims (i.e. Mohammed's original religion). Christian's have a fulfilled and complete understanding of the God of the Old Testament (Judaism) whereas Jews are still waiting for the messiah, the completion of the Old Testament's prophecies of a deliverer, who's already come (Jesus).
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On February 01 2012 22:10 bITt.mAN wrote:
^
^ Well, that didn't happen. I have no evidence or information on my-life-had-I-been-born-in-Iran, so it is unreasonable to suggest I know anything about what I would be like, had that happened. However I do believe that God reveals himself to everyone in different ways throughout their lives, and while it's hard there are still Christian converts in Iran.
You actually have a lot of evidence. The overwhelming majority of people in Iran are not Christian, despite whatever belief you have that god is revealing himself to them. You are not that different from other people. Are they just all that thickheaded over in Iran or is god not doing a good enough job revealing himself?
In fact the overwhelming majority of the world is not Christian at all. What's up with that?
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There is a fairly strong statistical argument to be made that IF you were indeed to have been born in Iran you would likely not be a christian but rather a muslim. And as you've so aptly pointed out that changes everything =P
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Bro regardless of where I was born I'd still have the same parents, otherwise it's not me (my genes) {: I was born in Japan, haven't lived there since I was three. No biggie really.
Ok, and once we start going down life-stories that never happened there's just as much evidence (i.e. none, as it didn't happen) that right about now in my life I'd be going to school in the West (white parents with US passports usually cause that to happen) and have been exposed to the Gospel Message. Hypothetically if I was Muslim, I'd then start to have serious issues with it, because who's gonna believe you can be 'good enough' to appease a wholly just and holy God by your works alone. By faith in God's grace we are saved, he's the only one who can bridge the gap we create whenever we turn away from him. That's Christianity.
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Well then gosh i wish i was indoctrinated by my elders from an young age too!
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Yeah it is difficult to imagine inhabiting the subjective conscious experience of a person with entirely different genes/parents/culture isn't it?
So are they all just that thickheaded over in Iran or is god not doing a good enough job revealing himself?
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On February 01 2012 22:26 bITt.mAN wrote:
Hypothetically if I was Muslim, I'd then start to have serious issues with it, because who's gonna believe you can be 'good enough' to appease a wholly just and holy God by your works alone. By faith in God's grace we are saved, he's the only one who can bridge the gap we create whenever we turn away from him. That's Christianity.
I mean, who is gonna believe in a god that saves you for merely saying you believe in him rather than doing what he asks of you?
BTW the saved by faith thing is only some versions of Protestant Christianity. So you are putting yourself in an increasingly minority position that thinks it alone has the official word on what god thinks or does. Protestant Christianity isn't even directly descended from Jesus. You'd have to go Orthodox or Catholic for some historical connection to a possibly fictitious man.
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On February 01 2012 22:00 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 21:56 Tyrran wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 01 2012 20:17 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 20:06 Tyrran wrote:On February 01 2012 19:40 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
I agree from a purely scientific standpoint it is indeed fairly meaningless, you can't use it to model anything useful that the simpler, razor compliant, version would not. But if the more complicated theory is still perfectly consistent with reality AND makes you feel happy, it'd almost be irrational not to believe that one instead.
What really is meaningless is to approach religion from a scientific standpoint . The goal of religion is no longer to tell us how the world was created and/or to make so called 'truth claim', i dont even think it ever was its goal ( but i agree it is sometime used a such, which is wrong IMHO). Religion nowadays is a way of life, a message on how you should live your life, a guide on what you should or should not do. You are free not to beleive in this message. You are free not to follow it. However, some people beleive in it, and act accordingly to it. They see God's hand where other people see coincidence and/or randomness. They see God influence when they see someone smile. They try they best to care about other people, they pardon, they share and they are happy to do it. Sure you migth say that you dont need religion to do it. But dont blame religious people for doing it. ( You are however allowed to blame religious people for making retarded claim about how the world was created :p ) People should stop thinking religion is stupid because there is no scientific proof behind it. It only proove that they know nothing about what religion is today. Show me a religion that doesn't make truth claims about the world. Does it involve praying? Does it involve educated religious leaders saying what God wants? Does it involve God actually performing miracles in defiance of the laws of the physics? If it doesn't what is it? Don't call a philosophical viewpoint about life a "religion." The two are very different and it doesn't help anyone to equate philosophy with spirituality/religion. I do not intend to start a huge discussion about how I see and live religion. At least not in this blog ( sorry OP for derailing a bit your thread). However these are interesting questions that deserve an anwser. I'll try to be short. Show me a religion that doesn't make truth claims about the world. Ever since I was born, I dont remember going to a mess where a truth claim was made about the world. I know some people use religion to make truth claim ( e.g. creationnists). I'll stand my ground and say that it is not the goal of religion to do so. Sure you can find many 'truth claim' in the bible. But I have learned a long time ago that what is written in the bible is not to be taken litteraly. Does it involve praying?Yes it does. I do pray. I pray god to give me the strengh i need to help other, to forgive me for what I have done wrong and to help me not to do it again. I pray god to give other the strengh they need to overcome obstacle they meet in life. Does it involve educated religious leaders saying what God wants?Yes it does. However religious leader are not blessed with the "thruth". The goal of 'educated religious leader' (in my case, priest or pastor) is to explain how the philosophy preached by the bible apply to real life problems. In most case, it is interesting, sometimes enligthening. But i've heard bad priest, and I even sometimes disagreed with some. Does it involve God actually performing miracles in defiance of the laws of the physics? No. Once again, the bible is not to be taken litterally. Don't call a philosophical viewpoint about life a "religion." The two are very different and it doesn't help anyone to equate philosophy with spirituality/religion.Quite frankly, when i hear people talking about religion, I often wish they would see it as a philosophy rather than a Science. They are way more similarities between religion and philosophy than between religion and science. If you pray, you are making truth claims about the world. You believe that god directly intervenes in daily life to tell you things, breaking the laws of physics and directly communicating with you in your head. That's a truth claim. Also implicit in all this are the truth claims that: you have a soul, you will enter into an afterlife when you die, that the bible was communicated to people by god similar to the way he communicates to you through prayer, that you can know what god wants for us, that god exists at all (perhaps the most common truth claim in any religion). None of those are substantiated with a shred of evidence. So I think you are mistaken.
And once again you are trying to find scientific foundation to religion when I am trying to explain that you should not. I'm not christian because I think my soul will be saved. I am christian because I believe in the message/guide/philosophy delivered by Jesus in the bible.
Yes I do believe God exist. I also believe He does not have a physical existence. I beleive He is within each one of us , and I see His action when i look at people dedicating their life to figth poverty. This is not something rational, driven by physical law. This is not a scientific truth claim. This is what I believe, this is my faith.
I'm a scientist, conducting a applied Mathematic PhD at the moment. Beleive me, if i ever found something that did not work accordingly to the physical law i know, I'd immediatly write a paper on it and become famous :D
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I want to know how you go about creating your own beliefs. It seems that creating your own belief would require you to create your own ideas, but ideas do not work that way. Ideas simply pop into your head, they are not forged. On reflection this is the only way it could be. Your beliefs are going to be based on your ideas, ideas that are gathered from sense experience/reasoning, and cannot be divorced from the real world.
To the above poster who claims that God is visible when people do charity, I cannot respect such a belief without any evidence. And you don't appear to even care to give any. The faith you are describing is nothing more than an assertion without evidence, and should not be given any more respect than the suicide bomber who kills people to please his God.
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On February 01 2012 23:32 Tyrran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 22:00 IgnE wrote:On February 01 2012 21:56 Tyrran wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 01 2012 20:17 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 20:06 Tyrran wrote:On February 01 2012 19:40 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:
I agree from a purely scientific standpoint it is indeed fairly meaningless, you can't use it to model anything useful that the simpler, razor compliant, version would not. But if the more complicated theory is still perfectly consistent with reality AND makes you feel happy, it'd almost be irrational not to believe that one instead.
What really is meaningless is to approach religion from a scientific standpoint . The goal of religion is no longer to tell us how the world was created and/or to make so called 'truth claim', i dont even think it ever was its goal ( but i agree it is sometime used a such, which is wrong IMHO). Religion nowadays is a way of life, a message on how you should live your life, a guide on what you should or should not do. You are free not to beleive in this message. You are free not to follow it. However, some people beleive in it, and act accordingly to it. They see God's hand where other people see coincidence and/or randomness. They see God influence when they see someone smile. They try they best to care about other people, they pardon, they share and they are happy to do it. Sure you migth say that you dont need religion to do it. But dont blame religious people for doing it. ( You are however allowed to blame religious people for making retarded claim about how the world was created :p ) People should stop thinking religion is stupid because there is no scientific proof behind it. It only proove that they know nothing about what religion is today. Show me a religion that doesn't make truth claims about the world. Does it involve praying? Does it involve educated religious leaders saying what God wants? Does it involve God actually performing miracles in defiance of the laws of the physics? If it doesn't what is it? Don't call a philosophical viewpoint about life a "religion." The two are very different and it doesn't help anyone to equate philosophy with spirituality/religion. I do not intend to start a huge discussion about how I see and live religion. At least not in this blog ( sorry OP for derailing a bit your thread). However these are interesting questions that deserve an anwser. I'll try to be short. Show me a religion that doesn't make truth claims about the world. Ever since I was born, I dont remember going to a mess where a truth claim was made about the world. I know some people use religion to make truth claim ( e.g. creationnists). I'll stand my ground and say that it is not the goal of religion to do so. Sure you can find many 'truth claim' in the bible. But I have learned a long time ago that what is written in the bible is not to be taken litteraly. Does it involve praying?Yes it does. I do pray. I pray god to give me the strengh i need to help other, to forgive me for what I have done wrong and to help me not to do it again. I pray god to give other the strengh they need to overcome obstacle they meet in life. Does it involve educated religious leaders saying what God wants?Yes it does. However religious leader are not blessed with the "thruth". The goal of 'educated religious leader' (in my case, priest or pastor) is to explain how the philosophy preached by the bible apply to real life problems. In most case, it is interesting, sometimes enligthening. But i've heard bad priest, and I even sometimes disagreed with some. Does it involve God actually performing miracles in defiance of the laws of the physics? No. Once again, the bible is not to be taken litterally. Don't call a philosophical viewpoint about life a "religion." The two are very different and it doesn't help anyone to equate philosophy with spirituality/religion.Quite frankly, when i hear people talking about religion, I often wish they would see it as a philosophy rather than a Science. They are way more similarities between religion and philosophy than between religion and science. If you pray, you are making truth claims about the world. You believe that god directly intervenes in daily life to tell you things, breaking the laws of physics and directly communicating with you in your head. That's a truth claim. Also implicit in all this are the truth claims that: you have a soul, you will enter into an afterlife when you die, that the bible was communicated to people by god similar to the way he communicates to you through prayer, that you can know what god wants for us, that god exists at all (perhaps the most common truth claim in any religion). None of those are substantiated with a shred of evidence. So I think you are mistaken. And once again you are trying to find scientific foundation to religion when I am trying to explain that you should not. I'm not christian because I think my soul will be saved. I am christian because I believe in the message/guide/philosophy delivered by Jesus in the bible. Yes I do believe God exist. I also believe He does not have a physical existence. I beleive He is within each one of us , and I see His action when i look at people dedicating their life to figth poverty. This is not something rational, driven by physical law. This is not a scientific truth claim. This is what I believe, this is my faith. I'm a scientist, conducting a applied Mathematic PhD at the moment. Beleive me, if i ever found something that did not work accordingly to the physical law i know, I'd immediatly write a paper on it and become famous :D
As long as you freely admit you believe in stuff for which there is no evidence and for which you have no rational support, then keep doing what you are doing. More power to you if you want to believe in crazy shit, as long as you keep your distance.
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On February 01 2012 21:56 Tyrran wrote:
Does it involve God actually performing miracles in defiance of the laws of the physics?
No. Once again, the bible is not to be taken litterally.
So uh everything it says is metaphorical? Therefore Jesus is not the son of god, savior, died to save our sins etc etc?
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It always amazes me how many people are willing to believe something is true just because they "want to."
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EPT
