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[Girl Blog] Botched Push
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
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synapse
China13814 Posts
My sincerest condolences. | ||
semioldguy
United States7488 Posts
edit: at least you came back a man. | ||
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Torenhire
United States11681 Posts
Sorry it didn't work out though, but at least you're not stuck in "what if I told her" land like 99% of the other TL Girl bloggers end up. ^^ | ||
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
edit: [The Song] Might be wildly inappropriate, but don't give up. Stay strong. | ||
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Cowpieguy
United States97 Posts
If, however, she tenses when you touch her or seems to be displeased, then she probably doesn't want to be more than friends. And that's why it's so hard to make this physical contact. It's a period of not knowing for you, and that's very scary. It's much easier to blurt out a question and get a yes or no. But in my experience, women never seem to like that, and like I said, I think that's because friendship doesn't turn into romance in one moment. Like you said, you developed feelings for her after spending more and more time with her. Popping a question like you did on her just gives her no room to manuever. You have to have the confidence to express your feelings for her in smaller ways and have the guts and patience for her to decide how she feels over time. I hope this helps man. I've done what you did many a time and it's just never worked for me. Best wishes for happiness. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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hazelynut
United States2195 Posts
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On January 27 2012 11:05 hazelynut wrote: Okok so the friendzone doesn't actually exist - she's either interested in you or she isn't. You cannot salvage this situation. Basically leave it alone and work on your own shit for now. ...that's the friendzone. | ||
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Torenhire
United States11681 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2385 Posts
But it's not a magical thing you end up in by waiting too long or by asking at the end of a dinner instead of at the start. Which is what the word "friend zone" implies. | ||
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Detrimentally
United States78 Posts
On January 27 2012 11:05 hazelynut wrote: Okok so the friendzone doesn't actually exist - she's either interested in you or she isn't. You cannot salvage this situation. Basically leave it alone and work on your own shit for now. You just contradicted yourself. Yes, the friend-zone exists and, sadly, it destroys many, many men. EDIT to your above response: No, its something you get put in by either a lack of physical and/or emotional attraction as well as judgement made about how you act around her. If she doesn't have an intense physical attraction, you listen to her problems, etc, you are in the friendzone. | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
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caradoc
Canada3022 Posts
On January 27 2012 11:12 Turbovolver wrote: But it's not a magical thing you end up in by waiting too long or by asking at the end of a dinner instead of at the start. Which is what the word "friend zone" implies. nah, it's just the friendzone. You don't always know when you bumble your way into that cursed forest, it's not like the border is clearly marked with big red signs and flashing lights. Thing is though, once you end up in that forest, none of the paths lead back out, they just wind around and go into places like the Swamps of TryhardAwkward, The Briars of LemmeComplainAbouttheCompetition, The Frustrated Morass, or The Black Abyss of CantTakeNo.... @OP, just enjoy the friendzone and be a friend, or cut the contact down imo. eh, and as a general bit of tactical advice, I know when you're watching a great game you see that amazing engagement and you're like I want to do THAT, then you gear up the whole game to do that push, and it fails miserably, and you wonder what you did wrong... but theres all sorts of stuff you sometimes need to do in advance of the push, like using tactics like err...harass, or getting a positional advantage, or forcing a tech switch where you'll have an advantage over your opponent, etc. and stuff first to soften up your opponent, so that when the push finally comes, it's really just a formality-- The push didn't decide the game, the game was decided earlier. On January 27 2012 11:20 Divinek wrote: you didnt fuck anything up she just doesnt like you this also happens a lot too. nothing you can do about it, nothing you COULD have done about it. nothing to worry about. On January 27 2012 11:12 Torenhire wrote: Arguing about friendzone with a girl is probably not a good plan lol. Straight path to the black abyss, or the swamps if she's nice. | ||
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Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
DONT Skype to talk about it, dear lord. You have to discuss it in person. Dont rush it, there will be a perfect time for it. ask here to go to the park, something semi-intimate but not romantic, otherwise she will shut you down, And although it is not encouiraged that you surrender, try to entertain the fact that she might not like you, and that is perfectly fine. Life goes on. For now, play your cards well. | ||
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ziggurat
Canada847 Posts
On January 27 2012 11:24 caradoc wrote: eh, and as a general bit of tactical advice, I know when you're watching a great game you see that amazing engagement and you're like I want to do THAT, then you gear up the whole game to do that push, and it fails miserably, and you wonder what you did wrong... but theres all sorts of stuff you sometimes need to do in advance of the push, like using tactics like err...harass, or getting a positional advantage, or forcing a tech switch where you'll have an advantage over your opponent, etc. and stuff first to soften up your opponent, so that when the push finally comes, it's really just a formality-- The push didn't decide the game, the game was decided earlier. Excellent advice. And a good analogy too. | ||
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Brett
Australia3820 Posts
On January 27 2012 11:20 Divinek wrote: you didnt fuck anything up she just doesnt like you This (although attraction is a fluid concept, rather than an arbitrary yes or no). Don't beat yourself up about this, and certainly don't obsess over this girl. DO use it as an opportunity to correct any glaring errors you made though, like not pulling qthe trigger sooner. | ||
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Bigtony
United States1606 Posts
On January 27 2012 11:20 Divinek wrote: you didnt fuck anything up she just doesnt like you Agree ^ You probably could have been more direct (rather than 'casual suggesting' it), but if she's not into you that's it. I also don't buy "the friend zone." It's just a bullshit thing made up by guys who don't get the woman they want. There are countless stories of friendships becoming romantic. Fuck, for like the past 2000 years that's how most non-arranged relationships came about. You didn't date anyone, you were just friends. Not enough information about your friendship to give real advice though. How intimate is/was your relationship? Obviously not in the sexual meaning, just how close were you actually? | ||
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ig0tfish
United States345 Posts
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bjornkavist
Canada1235 Posts
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hazelynut
United States2195 Posts
you didnt fuck anything up she just doesnt like you But it's not like you miss a timing or anything, and it's not like being her friend for too long puts you in a magical place called the friendzone. You're there or you're not. It's a pretty fast call. | ||
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caradoc
Canada3022 Posts
On January 27 2012 12:36 Bigtony wrote: Agree ^ You probably could have been more direct (rather than 'casual suggesting' it), but if she's not into you that's it. I also don't buy "the friend zone." It's just a bullshit thing made up by guys who don't get the woman they want. There are countless stories of friendships becoming romantic. Fuck, for like the past 2000 years that's how most non-arranged relationships came about. You didn't date anyone, you were just friends. Not enough information about your friendship to give real advice though. How intimate is/was your relationship? Obviously not in the sexual meaning, just how close were you actually? That's not what people mean when they say the friend zone. That happens, yes, and it's great when it does, but it's not the friend zone. | ||
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Battleaxe
United States843 Posts
Go cheese some noobs and you'll forget all about it  | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
I'm not sure if it was right to use the term "friend-zone" in my OP since it's such a controversial, somewhat ambiguous term that I only used because it seems to be the catch-all term for these types of situations. I definitely don't think anything malicious is going on since she is genuinely a nice person and was afraid that her answer would hurt me more than it would hurt her. which is why we both approached the issue in a haphazard, almost joking kinda a way to mask how sensitive and delicate it was. Then again, I turtle waaaaaay too much, in real life and in SC. Missed my timing, I suppose. Memories of TvZ flash before my eyes where my first push is often met with Brood Lords or Ultralisks and is subsequently annihilated. But no worries. At least my comfort zone grew today. She is a great person and I felt bad for putting her in such a rough spot, but at least it was better to throw my feelings out there and get an honest answer rather than keep them bottled up until eternity's end. Oh well. At least it's time to study up on some real dating techniques. Or Morrowind. One or the other. | ||
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caradoc
Canada3022 Posts
On January 27 2012 14:57 eviltomahawk wrote: Thanks for the responses guys. TL is indeed a goldmine of mature, informative feedback when it comes to girl blogs. I'm not sure if it was right to use the term "friend-zone" in my OP since it's such a controversial, somewhat ambiguous term that I only used because it seems to be the catch-all term for these types of situations. I definitely don't think anything malicious is going on since she is genuinely a nice person and was afraid that her answer would hurt me more than it would hurt her. which is why we both approached the issue in a haphazard, almost joking kinda a way to mask how sensitive and delicate it was. Then again, I turtle waaaaaay too much, in real life and in SC. Missed my timing, I suppose. Memories of TvZ flash before my eyes where my first push is often met with Brood Lords or Ultralisks and is subsequently annihilated. But no worries. At least my comfort zone grew today. She is a great person and I felt bad for putting her in such a rough spot, but at least it was better to throw my feelings out there and get an honest answer rather than keep them bottled up until eternity's end. Oh well. At least it's time to study up on some real dating techniques. Or Morrowind. One or the other. morrowind definitely. | ||
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OpticalShot
Canada6330 Posts
From what I read though, with a positive mindset: the fact that she flatly rejected it so quickly tells me that she thought about the possibility beforehand. It was in her head. So I would just keep it casual between you two. It's up to you, but my advice is not to play the jealousy game. Despite the failure now, I have this strange feeling you're already winning at this, but still good luck! Also, On January 27 2012 12:52 ig0tfish wrote: You might want to stop hanging out with her then. Give her some space and let her realize that she dun goof'd and she'll come crawling right back to you. | ||
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husniack
203 Posts
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Turbovolver
Australia2385 Posts
On January 27 2012 15:20 husniack wrote: I hate to say this but, if she likes you reciprocally, you could "drop a bomb" on her dad's funeral day and she'd still accept it. EXACTLY, well, actually that's a bit hyperbolic, but mostly true, we have a girl in here saying the same thing, and still guys are going on about the friendzone and the OP thinks he "missed a timing". Work on becoming more attractive people, instead of mystifying girls and relationships, telling yourself you don't understand them, and then acting entirely unlike yourself (or a normal human being) in order to live up to these so-called timings and expectations that guys put on themselves!! edit: What you call "being in the friendzone" girls call "he's not an attractive guy". And unfortunately a lot of very decent guys manage to turn themselves that way by WORRYING about shit like the mythical friendzone! | ||
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pyrogenetix
China5094 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On January 27 2012 16:47 pyrogenetix wrote: Thing is most girls will make up their mind within 10min of meeting you if they want to friend you, fuck you or marry you. Usually this won't change unless something huge happens. Learn to read them to save your time, money and emotions. First impressions are much more important than you think. True. However, I did feel like this was a unique situation with this girl since I've known her for so long and have been part of the same group of friends for several years. I liked her before, but it was only recently (as in last year) that I started to have enough feelings to start hoping to start something with her. So basically I don't think it was possible to point out a "first impression" moment with her since that was probably in middle school, and she doesn't even remember that we were in the same Spanish class in 7th grade lol. But I guess my dating plan for this year was to see if I can get anything out of my unique situation with her before seeing if I could invest in more traditional dating attempts with other girls on campus. | ||
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Kickboxer
Slovenia1308 Posts
In Starcraft terms, by far the best way to handle women is a one base all in. If you fail, you gg out and play the next game. Even if you had known her for ages, the moment you feel attracted to her you push, this will save you tons of time and confidence. We're not built to play macro games with chicks :D | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2385 Posts
On January 27 2012 18:26 Kickboxer wrote: As others have pointed out, you never get friend zoned for making your move. You get friend zoned for not doing anything for too long - and too long is almost never longer than a couple of days. Actually most people here are saying the opposite! Relationships grow out of friendships all the time dude. | ||
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pred470r
Bulgaria3265 Posts
Just my 2 cents. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On January 27 2012 20:26 pred470r wrote: Well you came back as a man, but the way you brought the subject up was pretty stupid. You don't ask a girl to be in a relationship with you over a meal like you're on a business meeting or something like that. You should have asked her out on a party or some club. Why? That way she would have known that you had something different in mind, since all you two do is just eat around places. When you asked her for a dinner she just thought that this was gonna be a regular ordinary dinner with you, and definitely wasn't expecting you to drop the ball like that. If you instead went to a party, you guys could have had a couple of drinks, danced together and then you would've had a much better opportunity to tell her how you feel about her, and she would have had enough time during the night hanging out with you to consider whether she wants to be with you or not. Just my 2 cents. To be fair, she doesn't like clubs and partying and stuff like that. She is quite modest and reserved. | ||
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pred470r
Bulgaria3265 Posts
On January 27 2012 20:31 eviltomahawk wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 27 2012 20:26 pred470r wrote: Well you came back as a man, but the way you brought the subject up was pretty stupid. You don't ask a girl to be in a relationship with you over a meal like you're on a business meeting or something like that. You should have asked her out on a party or some club. Why? That way she would have known that you had something different in mind, since all you two do is just eat around places. When you asked her for a dinner she just thought that this was gonna be a regular ordinary dinner with you, and definitely wasn't expecting you to drop the ball like that. If you instead went to a party, you guys could have had a couple of drinks, danced together and then you would've had a much better opportunity to tell her how you feel about her, and she would have had enough time during the night hanging out with you to consider whether she wants to be with you or not. Just my 2 cents. To be fair, she doesn't like clubs and partying and stuff like that. She is quite modest and reserved. Well then you should have taken her out to an amusement park, or a museum or some other place that you both would have fun and spend time together, and that is different from a place that you ordinarily go to. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
If you only liked her for the possibility of romance, move on. Either you can live with her as just your friend or you can't. Excluding drunken flings, it's unlikely she will ever be more. | ||
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cosimorondo
United States78 Posts
On January 24 2012 17:21 eviltomahawk wrote: In high school, we were part of the same close circle of friends that hanged out a lot hanged is generally used to refer soley to someone having been executed by hanging. In this context hung is correct for example: hung like a horse, not hanged like a horse Anyway! I just wanted to point out that your chances are by no means shattered. You just need to look at the problem the right way. Every person telling you your chances are probably blown are assuming that you'll repeat your past actions. If playing starcraft has taught me anything, it's that if you fail, you must try something else. So you told her at the end of dinner that you were "head over heels" for her or something of that nature. And she didn't immediately express that she had mutual feelings. Maybe she said, "Why don't we stay friends?" or "I think we should stay friends." If she didn't seem shocked or disgusted, then chances are, you can still win her love if you change the angle of your "push". The last thing you want to do now is wait patiently and occasionally send her memos. "I still think we should be in a relationship. What do you think, now, have you changed your mind?" These sort of transactions require some romance. "Romance" is sort of like a hypnotic state, in that it lowers barriers. It's a sort of a suspension of critical thinking. Have you ever unexpectedly been moved in really close to a girl and sort of felt time slow down? Thats sort of like what romance is. Speaking about it, or even rationalizing about it completely destroys the romance. Instead of telling her how you feel, SHOW her. Take the lead walking through a crowd and take her hand. When you're standing next to her put your arm around her. Do it casually. Humans love contact, even platonic contact like that. Now that you've told her, you should make an effort to hang out with her just as often and make it abundantly clear that your completely comfortable with the whole situation still. I could go on about this for days, so I'll quit there. Good luck. | ||
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caradoc
Canada3022 Posts
On January 27 2012 22:22 cosimorondo wrote: Before I got into substance of your post, I just wanted to point out hanged is generally used to refer soley to someone having been executed by hanging. In this context hung is correct for example: hung like a horse, not hanged like a horse Anyway! I just wanted to point out that your chances are by no means shattered. You just need to look at the problem the right way. Every person telling you your chances are probably blown are assuming that you'll repeat your past actions. If playing starcraft has taught me anything, it's that if you fail, you must try something else. So you told her at the end of dinner that you were "head over heels" for her or something of that nature. And she didn't immediately express that she had mutual feelings. Maybe she said, "Why don't we stay friends?" or "I think we should stay friends." If she didn't seem shocked or disgusted, then chances are, you can still win her love if you change the angle of your "push". The last thing you want to do now is wait patiently and occasionally send her memos. "I still think we should be in a relationship. What do you think, now, have you changed your mind?" These sort of transactions require some romance. "Romance" is sort of like a hypnotic state, in that it lowers barriers. It's a sort of a suspension of critical thinking. Have you ever unexpectedly been moved in really close to a girl and sort of felt time slow down? Thats sort of like what romance is. Speaking about it, or even rationalizing about it completely destroys the romance. Instead of telling her how you feel, SHOW her. Take the lead walking through a crowd and take her hand. When you're standing next to her put your arm around her. Do it casually. Humans love contact, even platonic contact like that. Now that you've told her, you should make an effort to hang out with her just as often and make it abundantly clear that your completely comfortable with the whole situation still. I could go on about this for days, so I'll quit there. Good luck. Life isn't a disney cartoon. 99.99% continuing to bring up the issue with her after she has already clearly and unequivocally said no, she isn't interested will cause nothing but problems. It's bad for her because she will feel awkward that you can't let go, and don't seem to understand her. It's bad for you both because your friendship will get strained as a result of it. It's bad for you because if you follow advice like this, you'll keep thinking you have a chance and you'll feel miserable at all this. This is probably the worst advice anyone could ever give. Yeah, she said no, but she really meant yes, you gotta just keep shoving it in her face. Riiiiiiiight. There is a point here about showing rather than telling, but not with the same person. | ||
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HardlyNever
United States1258 Posts
On January 28 2012 01:22 caradoc wrote: Life isn't a disney cartoon. 99.99% continuing to bring up the issue with her after she has already clearly and unequivocally said no, she isn't interested will cause nothing but problems. It's bad for her because she will feel awkward that you can't let go, and don't seem to understand her. It's bad for you both because your friendship will get strained as a result of it. It's bad for you because if you follow advice like this, you'll keep thinking you have a chance and you'll feel miserable at all this. This is probably the worst advice anyone could ever give. Yeah, she said no, but she really meant yes, you gotta just keep shoving it in her face. Riiiiiiiight. There is a point here about showing rather than telling, but not with the same person. I disagree, or really, it is some of what you both say. My opinion on the subject is this: if you are really interested in this girl in a romantic way, you could do something like cosimorondo said. Put yourself in more "romantic" situations. Suggest things that are more like dates, and less like friends casually hanging out. This might sound a little weird, but be less into her, and more in control of the situation, and shape it the way you want it to be. BUT BE WARNED. And this is more in line with what the other guy said. The above approach could backfire and blow up in your face. If she really isn't into you in that way at all, things will get awkward, and probably the friendship will end entirely, as neither of you will want to be around each other. So, you need to figure out what you really want out of this, and what you are willing to risk. Are you willing to risk the friendship for romance? Otherwise, stay friends and move on to another girl eventually. | ||
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cosimorondo
United States78 Posts
So often in life I have seen girls end up with the persistent guy, even when they had a closer relationship, more meaningful platonic relationship with another guy, who refused to take risks in terms of pursuing the girls affection. Look at it this way. You have two medivacs full of marine marauder and you're contemplating a double pronged drop on the Protoss' two bases. But you're worried, what if there's a couple stalkers and a high templar waiting to feedback at each base? Obviously, you have to try. That was the whole point of getting quick medivacs and loading them with marines and marauders and positioning them outside the bases of the protoss. Another thing-- lets suppose that she really just isn't interested in you romantically. You putting your self out there will have the positive side effect that you find out how she really feels, BUT, it will not destroy your relationship, if you really do enjoy eachothers company, and your personalities enjoy being in close proximity, you will quickly be able to normalize and continue your former friendship, if you want to. | ||
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