EPTA Different Perspective on The NaNiwa Controversy - Page 25
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Desirous
Canada95 Posts
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tedster
984 Posts
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
On December 16 2011 09:28 tripper688 wrote: I disagree completely. As a competitor and a sportsman, he should be giving effort regardless of whether or not he gets good or bad publicity, or is rewarded financially. You may think that probe rushing when there's no more money or fame on the line is good for esports but I disagree. To further expand on your point, hes only hurting his own brand by probe rushing. If he wants to be the best there ever was, hes going to need help - from his fans, his team, and his fellow peers. Huk always talks about how hes happy that he can just focus on gaming and not cooking or chores but this is only possible because he has a dedicated team behind his back. If Naniwa wants to be the best possible gamer hes going to need help and support (that hes currently getting.) If he continues to shit on them, eventually it'll lead to his own demise. Thankfully naniwa has seemingly learned from this, and more power to him, because he'll be better from this. As fans of naniwa I think we should support him and encourage him to learn and become a better gamer and a better person. The true anti-fans are the ones that are still excusing his behavior because they aren't doing naniwa any favors. | ||
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Nahema
Germany54 Posts
Edit: I'm no Naniwa fan. In fact i dislike him, but the honesty of his proberush action made me reconsider and have a littel respect for him. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On December 16 2011 09:16 Angelbelow wrote: I think technically Sen replaced Naniwa's spot, not IdrA. If Idra had known for "months" (even though Alex says "weeks") then it should have been Naniwa and IdrA both getting the spot and Nani later dropping out and opening up a spot for someone else. Your right that Gom shouldnt have waited to announce IdrAs code S spot, cause it would have done wonders for their ticket sales. Which means its no unreasonable to expect that this was a relatively recent progression. Sorry, edited the "for months" with "for weeks". | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On December 16 2011 09:29 Desirous wrote: You know what doesn't happen in professional sports? When an incident occurs, and after all parties involved have made public statements/apologies, a figure head from another team who has absolutely nothing to do with it, writes a several page essay detailing his or her own thoughts on the matter. Where were you during the Lebron fiasco? | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On December 16 2011 09:35 Nahema wrote: I have the strong opinion, that actually putting up a show just for the sake of having a match to show of would have been the worst thing naniwa could have done. I feel that especially in a grude match its important for the viewers to know, that both player WANT to win the match. If players are denied the oppertunety to forfit, there from now on forth every other match loses a littel of its meaning to me as a viewer, because i cannot know whether the player actually wants to win that game or not. I dont and dont want to expect from players to '"want" to win always. Edit: I'm no Naniwa fan. In fact i dislike him, but the honesty of his proberush action made me reconsider and have a littel respect for him. Or he could actually you know, go into the game and play relatively standard, micro and macro his behind off to the best of his abilities and let the chips fall where they may. Barring that, I see no difference in probe rush, half baked proxy cheese, or anything else of the sort. Heck even if he tried to micro his probes to win the worker rush, that would've been awesome. But as for myself, I feel that if he really wanted to make a statement or anything, he should have just not gotten into the booth. Probe rushing is no more being honest than a half assed 4 gate. If he doesn't care about winning against one of the greatest zergs in the game, one that he has a bit of history with, then what does he care about? | ||
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hejakev
Sweden518 Posts
On December 16 2011 06:22 blinken wrote: This is essentially a rehash of all the intelligent posts on this subject from yesterday, hardly a revelation. Exactly. It contributes nothing, merely perpetuates the controversy. Adding analogies to professional sports doesn't change anything. Then you get guys like this: On December 16 2011 07:40 AsnSensation wrote: Great Writeup !  I completely agree maybe if the butthurt fanboys take their time and read ths they change their opinion on the whole matter. --who think that it not only brings a new perspective to the matter, but that it's such a convincing argument that Naniwa fans are going to change their minds. I'm getting the feeling certain people, including AsnSensation here, didn't actually read the OP. They're just blindly congratulating EGalex for rewording what has already been said. Such arrogance calling it a "different perspective"... | ||
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LXR
357 Posts
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jyLee
United States350 Posts
On December 16 2011 09:35 Nahema wrote: I have the strong opinion, that actually putting up a show just for the sake of having a match to show of would have been the worst thing naniwa could have done. I feel that especially in a grude match its important for the viewers to know, that both player WANT to win the match. If players are denied the oppertunety to forfit, there from now on forth every other match loses a littel of its meaning to me as a viewer, because i cannot know whether the player actually wants to win that game or not. I dont and dont want to expect from players to '"want" to win always. Edit: I'm no Naniwa fan. In fact i dislike him, but the honesty of his proberush action made me reconsider and have a littel respect for him. Why the hell would a professional not want to ALWAYS win. I find it ironic Naniwa says he's ultra competitive yet he doesnt even attempt to compete against a world class player like Nestea. You would think just the prestige of competing and possibly beating Nestea and entertaining fans would be enough. This just shows how selfish and self centered Naniwa is. Does not care about fulfilling his obligations to the tournament and the fans. Saying that Naniwa only cares about winning tournaments is not an excuse. Jordan was the best basketball player ever and he was egotistical, hyper competitve, and an angry man. Didnt stop him from playing in meaningless All Star games and ball out. Nor did it stop him from competing in even more pointless Slam Dunk contests purely for the enjoyment of fans. Naniwa was man enough to come out and apologize, now the fanboys need to stop blaming GOM and stop making lame excuses because its pretty pathetic. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
Now I hope these threads can die down and that the organizations, managers, tournaments and players can all come to an agreement and no longer throw games or allow systems to have meaningless games. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
On December 16 2011 10:15 jyLee wrote: Why the hell would a professional not want to ALWAYS win. I find it ironic Naniwa says he's ultra competitive yet he doesnt even attempt to compete against a world class player like Nestea. You would think just the prestige of competing and possibly beating Nestea and entertaining fans would be enough. This just shows how selfish and self centered Naniwa is. Does not care about fulfilling his obligations to the tournament and the fans. Saying that Naniwa only cares about winning tournaments is not an excuse. Jordan was the best basketball player ever and he was egotistical, hyper competitve, and an angry man. Didnt stop him from playing in meaningless All Star games and ball out. Nor did it stop him from competing in even more pointless Slam Dunk contests purely for the enjoyment of fans. Naniwa was man enough to come out and apologize, now the fanboys need to stop blaming GOM and stop making lame excuses because its pretty pathetic. I think the difference is that jordan gets paid for every piece of shit job he had to do. Did nani get paid for this? if he didn't then I understand nani's point even more. Sorry but money drives the passion a lot more than you'd think. | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On December 16 2011 10:16 emc wrote: I think the difference is that jordan gets paid for every piece of shit job he had to do. Did nani get paid for this? if he didn't then I understand nani's point even more. Sorry but money drives the passion a lot more than you'd think. Yes he does. He gets paid by Quantic to go out and represent their team with performance and results. edit: have to add That's one of the reasons why I have a problem with the hands off probe rush. It's basically saying, I don't want to lose my sponsors or get fired from my team for refusing to play but I don't care enough to actually play once I get into the booth. It's just as much a cop out as any half assed rush or cheese that everyone says is bad because it's dishonest or whatever. A probe rush isn't any more honest. If he wants to make a point, either play it out and complain to GOM or don't go play. Don't get into the booth and figuratively point the finger at GOM because you're frustrated about being in a bad situation. | ||
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TheStonerer
Canada278 Posts
On December 16 2011 10:11 hejakev wrote: Exactly. It contributes nothing, merely perpetuates the controversy. Adding analogies to professional sports doesn't change anything. Then you get guys like this: --who think that it not only brings a new perspective to the matter, but that it's such a convincing argument that Naniwa fans are going to change their minds. I'm getting the feeling certain people, including AsnSensation here, didn't actually read the OP. They're just blindly congratulating EGalex for rewording what has already been said. Such arrogance calling it a "different perspective"... Just because it's EGalex doesn't mean you have to demean his post. On that topic, personally I agree with those that say they liked this move because at least he was honest about it. Being taken for an idiot thinking he was giving it his best is not something I like either. People these days expect everything to be given to them and always want everything to be politically correct, or at least seeming like it was "proper". And then before all this drama, I simply did not give a fuck. He was broken after the close losses, didn't feel like playing the game, probe rushed, ended it quickly, some people were angry, I thought it was funny and I didn't really see the difference between this and Idra getting angry at the game and leaving (there is, but one just stays in the game longer). Anyway, in my opinion, much ado about nothing, and people expect so much from everything. | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On December 16 2011 10:21 TheStonerer wrote: Just because it's EGalex doesn't mean you have to demean his post. On that topic, personally I agree with those that say they liked this move because at least he was honest about it. Being taken for an idiot thinking he was giving it his best is not something I like either. People these days expect everything to be given to them and always want everything to be politically correct, or at least seeming like it was "proper". And then before all this drama, I simply did not give a fuck. He was broken after the close losses, didn't feel like playing the game, probe rushed, ended it quickly, some people were angry, I thought it was funny and I didn't really see the difference between this and Idra getting angry at the game and leaving (there is, but one just stays in the game longer). Anyway, in my opinion, much ado about nothing, and people expect so much from everything. It's not honest. If you don't want to play, forfeit and refuse to play. If you get in the booth, conduct yourself as a professional and suck it up and play. Not half assed either. No one is asking him to pull out all the stops and show off his latest anti-nestea build either. | ||
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Hexxed
United States202 Posts
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HyperLethality
United States14 Posts
On December 15 2011 23:49 nicotn wrote: Why? because they took naniwa's code S spot with rules that barely even apply? because they denie awarding him a code S spot even tho MLG confirmed it on over 10 occasions? People are all jumping on the naniwa thing, but there are more things than the naniwa thing that made people boycot Gom. I suggest you educate yourself with peoples thoughts and don't write thing that you don't have a clue of. People are boycotting Gom because of their punishment to NaNiWa, simple as that. Before anything else was clarified, as soon as the threads about NaNiWa's punishment, people were already saying they want to boycott Gom. I am very knowledgeable about this situation mind you, I've been following it very closely. I suggest you check yourself. Honestly, I am shocked by the amount of people who are trying to "boycott" Gom, and to be even more frank, I find it ridiculously absurd and stupid of what people are saying to defend NaNiwa. First of all, if you don't want to watch the GSL anymore because of this, boohoo, get out then. Nobody cares, and if you condone NaNiwa's behavior then Gom doesn't need people like you anyway. Second of all, "NaNiwa didn't break any rules" is the most childish argument you could throw at this situation. When you become an "adult" and "mature", you start realizing that your behavior shouldn't be guided by "rules". There's absolutely no excuse for NaNiwa's disrespect. It's not just what he did, but how he did it, understanding the weight of the match even. You guys really want to defend a guy who would do that to his fans? Have some self-respect, damn. There's a level of respect that you have to show, when you enter someone else's turf. Also, whether or not you're a NesTea fan, he is one of the best players in the world, and when you face someone of that caliber, you bring your best as an acknowledgement of their skill. This was disrespectful. AND EVEN THOUGH, I don't entirely agree that a punishment this severe is necessary, if Gom sees FIT, then so be it. They have every right. NaNiwa shouldn't be babied for any reason whatsoever, and let this be an example and set a standard for all players and a level of professionalism. TL;DR: NaNiwa represented the foreign community and messed up embarrassingly on someone else's turf, they have every right to punish him. It's not even what he did, but how he did it. P.S And for many of you who are defending and crying for NaNiwa, at least hide your country or something for crying out loud. | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
Sports teams make money directly from ticket sales so they have direct incentive to play their games. The prize money for winning the regular season is either miniscule or non-existent, so essentially they are rewarded based of entertainment rather than results. Sc2 players make money based on how well they perform in a tournament, i.e. prize money. If there is no prize money to be won, they have no direct incentive to play the game. It can even be detrimental to their earnings if they play, as it may reveal their play-style or their strategies for upcoming tournaments. | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On December 16 2011 10:47 VoirDire wrote: Here is why all analogies with professional sports are bad: Sports teams make money directly from ticket sales so they have direct incentive to play their games. The prize money for winning the regular season is either miniscule or non-existent, so essentially they are rewarded based of entertainment rather than results. Sc2 players make money based on how well they perform in a tournament, i.e. prize money. If there is no prize money to be won, they have no direct incentive to play the game. It can even be detrimental to their earnings if they play, as it may reveal their play-style or their strategies for upcoming tournaments. The majority of name foreign SC2 pros are salaried just like their sports counterparts. Maybe not compensated to the same extent but salaried all the same. | ||
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