EPTA Different Perspective on The NaNiwa Controversy - Page 24
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Perfect Assassin
Mexico56 Posts
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
People (*cough* players) that blame GOM for putting Naniwa in that situation really have to grow up and realize that ultimately, a league's obligation is not to the players, but to its viewers. Just look at a league like NASL. They have gone out of it's way to try to accommodate players -- they've been 'fair' to the point of hurting themselves' -- and they're struggling to put together a marketable product. | ||
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Marvid
Sweden34 Posts
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WArped
United Kingdom4845 Posts
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
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jimmydu444
Canada250 Posts
On December 15 2011 18:25 chadissilent wrote: NaNiwa enters game, forfeits. IdrA doesn't enter game, forfeits. How about his forfeits at MLG Providence against Haypro? I fail to see the difference. User was temp banned for this post. The mods are out of their minds. Disgusting. User was temp banned for this post. User was warned for this post | ||
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AimlessAmoeba
Canada704 Posts
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woobsauce
United States491 Posts
For reference, the thread which I started and commented in numerous times (as well as covering a number of points Alex also comments on): http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=211520&cid=0&kind=1 | ||
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taLbuk
Madagascar1879 Posts
On December 16 2011 08:37 jimmydu444 wrote: The mods are out of their minds. Disgusting. Out of their minds for stopping someone from spreading false information? don't think so. | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On December 16 2011 06:09 Fjodorov wrote: Wow you really got mad  He is just trying to put out a possible explanation to naniwas obvious lack of knowledge of how esports is nothing more than a business and industry to some ppl. LOL you don't get it at all do you? If someone cared about the game and competition, they would compete to the best of their ability regardless of monetary or fame incentives from the business side of esports. If you're basically doing it for the money and fame, then you're not much of a "sportsman." On December 16 2011 08:03 Perfect Assassin wrote: I did read the whole article, just saying where is the play to win part? I don't see much difference between this and Boxer's famous (not infamous) worker rushes. Boxer does marine scv rushes to win games in sets. Naniwa A moves his probes towards Nestea's hatch and takes his hands off his keyboard to display his displeasure of having to play what is to him, a meaningless game. When has Boxer just boxed his SCVs and sent them at an opponents base then taken his hands off the keyboard as if to say, "To hell with this." On December 16 2011 08:32 Mementoss wrote: Didn't mention anything about the rules not being clear with no punishment even being mentioned... Formal warning woulda been fine Maybe so but...their house their rules I guess? | ||
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PlainShane
United States62 Posts
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Esper
United States87 Posts
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Keone
United States812 Posts
On December 16 2011 07:59 aviator116 wrote: you misunderstood me. i meant that Sen was the next highest ranked foreigner in GSL points in large part because of his Blizzcon showing, so he was given the green light when the Naniwa incident occurred. No I think you misunderstood both of us. We all know Sen was the next in line because of his showings regardless of what they were. What we were talking about was the possibility that Naniwa's spot was directly given to Sen, as compared to IdrA who had a spot regardless. | ||
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Squigly
United Kingdom629 Posts
On December 16 2011 08:37 jimmydu444 wrote: The mods are out of their minds. Disgusting. Indeed they are, however youll get banned for saying that. And ill get banned for saying this  OT: Put simply, he didnt break any rules. He shouldnt be punished. I dont care if what he did was ethically wrong or not, he did not technically do anything wrong. The fact that GOM had to find the rule which most closely relates something he did, in the vaguest possible sense is a travesty. Im pretty sure any lawyer could take their rulebook and show how most players have broken it in some way or other. All this talk of being 'sports-manly isnt even relevant in any way. Its about did he break a rule, yes or no. Its down right offensive that they can effectively make up a rule to punish some guy they dont like. GOM, the Soviet Russia of Esports EDIT: Also you say that in other sports it would provoke outrage. Imagine in football your 2-0 down with 30 seconds to go. If your just kinda walking about not trying, noone will ask for their money back at all. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
[LOL you don't get it at all do you? If someone cared about the game and competition, they would compete to the best of their ability regardless of monetary or fame incentives from the business side of esports. If you're basically doing it for the money and fame, then you're not much of a "sportsman." I think you are wrong. If you only cared about money and fame then you would think about the consequences and your future career more carefully in terms of money lost if you get punished and bad publicity etc. Naniwa, on the contrary, invests all that he is and all his emotions in his competetive games and when its over and he has lost ( 0 - 3) he is completely drained. You may think that fake, half hearted, sloppy games, where both players morale is rock bottom, are good for esports. I disagree | ||
Myles
United States5162 Posts
On December 16 2011 08:56 Squigly wrote: Indeed they are, however youll get banned for saying that. And ill get banned for saying this OT: Put simply, he didnt break any rules. He shouldnt be punished. I dont care if what he did was ethically wrong or not, he did not technically do anything wrong. The fact that GOM had to find the rule which most closely relates something he did, in the vaguest possible sense is a travesty. Im pretty sure any lawyer could take their rulebook and show how most players have broken it in some way or other. All this talk of being 'sports-manly isnt even relevant in any way. Its about did he break a rule, yes or no. Its down right offensive that they can effectively make up a rule to punish some guy they dont like. GOM, the Soviet Russia of Esports EDIT: Also you say that in other sports it would provoke outrage. Imagine in football your 2-0 down with 30 seconds to go. If your just kinda walking about not trying, noone will ask for their money back at all. You'll get banned for martyring, the other guy got banned because what he said isn't true. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
Saying that Idra had his code S spot "for weeks" for instance. I know GOM gave you a very nice gift by giving Idra a code S spot without previous notice, so you feel you have to lie about it to make them look good, but the fact that Idra was in the up and downs and that Naniwa was in code S is well documented (including by Idra himself who said it in a show. In fact he said he first thought he was in code A, and was happily surprised to be placed in the und and have a chance to qualify directly for code S). In this story, Naniwa thought he was in code S, Idra thought he was in the und, the whole world and esports covering sites also thought that, but it seems neither you nor GOM, who knew it was false "for weeks", decided to correct them. Which is pretty surprising, as they already started to sell 2012 tickets, and I guess Idra in code S would have been a pretty good announcement toi make for GOM or EG. Please don't take that as "defending naniwa". What he did was wrong, but that doesn't excuse all the wrongs that followed, including some disinformation contained in the OP. It seems you wanted to basically say "Don't hate Idra for taking Naniwa's code S spot" (which you're right to, Idra has no blame obviously, unless EG pressured GOM to ban Naniwa and place their star player in code S, but it's a little conspiratorial, and not Idra's responsability). But you should have told that directly and frankly (imo) I nitpick a small part of your article, but as I said, I agree with most other things you wrote. edit : weeks, not months, sorry for misquoting TT | ||
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Angelbelow
United States3728 Posts
On December 16 2011 09:03 MrCon wrote: OP has some good points (about Naniwa) and terrible points (about Idra). Saying that Idra had his code S spot "for months" for instance. I know GOM gave you a very nice gift by giving Idra a code S spot without previous notice, so you feel you have to lie about it to make them look good, but the fact that Idra was in the up and downs and that Naniwa was in code S is well documented (including by Idra himself who said it in a show. In fact he said he first thought he was in code A, and was happily surprised to be placed in the und and have a chance to qualify directly for code S). In this story, Naniwa thought he was in code S, Idra thought he was in the und, the whole world and esports covering sites also thought that, but it seems neither you nor GOM, who knew it was false "for months", decided to correct them. Which is pretty surprising, as they already started to sell 2012 tickets, and I guess Idra in code S would have been a pretty good announcement toi make for GOM or EG. Please don't take that as "defending naniwa". What he did was wrong, but that doesn't excuse all the wrongs that followed, including some disinformation contained in the OP. It seems you wanted to basically say "Don't hate Idra for taking Naniwa's code S spot" (which you're right to, Idra has no blame obviously, unless EG pressured GOM to ban Naniwa and place their star player in code S, but it's a little conspiratorial, and not Idra's responsability). But you should have told that directly and frankly (imo) I nitpick a small part of your article, but as I said, I agree with most other things you wrote. I think technically Sen replaced Naniwa's spot, not IdrA. If Idra had known for "months" (even though Alex says "weeks") then it should have been Naniwa and IdrA both getting the spot and Nani later dropping out and opening up a spot for someone else. Your right that Gom shouldnt have waited to announce IdrAs code S spot, cause it would have done wonders for their ticket sales. Which means its no unreasonable to expect that this was a relatively recent progression. | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On December 16 2011 08:59 Fjodorov wrote: I think you are wrong. If you only cared about money and fame then you would think about the consequences and your future career more carefully in terms of money lost if you get punished and bad publicity etc. Naniwa, on the contrary, invests all that he is and all his emotions in his competetive games and when its over and he has lost ( 0 - 3) he is completely drained. You may think that fake, half hearted, sloppy games, where both players morale is rock bottom, are good for esports. I disagree I disagree completely. As a competitor and a sportsman, he should be giving effort regardless of whether or not he gets good or bad publicity, or is rewarded financially. You may think that probe rushing when there's no more money or fame on the line is good for esports but I disagree. | ||
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