EPTA Different Perspective on The NaNiwa Controversy - Page 13
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kirdie
Germany221 Posts
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
On December 16 2011 00:11 pPingu wrote: Why do so many people want to compare esports with other sports to make a point? Can you compare soccer, pool and chess? You can compare their professional sportsperson's obligation to be PROFESSIONAL for the good of the sport they represent. What's the difference between a football player who sits down on the grass in the middle of a match and refuses to do anything, a pool player who starts a game but proceeds to foul every single shot afterwards, and a chess player who starts a game only to knock down his king right after? Nothing. They're throwing the game. It doesn't matter what their reasons are, they're throwing it and making it blatant. That hurts the image of the sport as well as everyone who is involved in it. The viewers, the organisers, the sponosers, the opposition, the broadcasting team...etc. It is one thing to take a stance and refuse to take part in the first place, and another to agree and start something, only to treat it like nothing and blatantly give up. Do you get it? On December 16 2011 00:25 kirdie wrote: I don't agree, I prefer him to not lie to people and pretend to want to win with a 4 gate but make it clear - does no one value honesty anymore? Honesty would've been refusing to take part before the match and standing your ground. GOM may have threatened Nani, but they could not have physically made him play a game vs Nestea. What he did was agree to play a game and throw it. How is that honesty? Honest to his own emotions? Sure, but that's what a professional must sometimes ignore & sacrifice for the greater good IF you agree to take part. | ||
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Snaphoo
United States614 Posts
On December 15 2011 18:30 Snorkle wrote: Did you read the OP? Every sports league has games played and televised that don't matter. People even pay and show up in person to watch games that don't matter. That is really fucked up to deprive a player the opportunity to show their ability just because they no longer can advance in the tournament. Not everyone is Naniwa, many players would jump at the chance to be able to show their skills against Nestea to thousands of fans even if they were playing for beans. This is an excellent point. The reason "pointless" games are shown is because even if a player like NesTea or NaNi has no chance to advance, they have fans that would be delighted to watch them play games against top competition. NaNi showed zero regard for his fans or those of NesTea. Perhaps more importantly, there are legions of top-flight SC2 players who would have killed for the opportunity to play in a televised match (hell, NesTea spent the entire night of his birthday preparing for the match) such as Squirtle, Seed, Hack, etc. etc. | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
What naniwa did is bad ! no one should do that ! it ruins everything ! | ||
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Stringy
United States127 Posts
On December 16 2011 00:25 kirdie wrote: I don't agree, I prefer him to not lie to people and pretend to want to win with a 4 gate but make it clear - does no one value honesty anymore? Once the all mighty dollar comes into the picture I guess honestly is suppose to take a back seat. Its a shame to see this type of thinking being displayed here. | ||
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Rorschach
United States623 Posts
And ultimately, the quality of their product is defined by the entertainment value of their matches. This statement is a double edged sword. Well GOM should strive to bring a quality product (as its in their best interest) the player must be allowed absolute freedom of expression in their gameplay. Let that sink in for just a second.... Naniwa had either been invited or earned a place at the blizzard cup and as pro has right to expression in his playstyle. His choice of expression that particular game showed no effort and bad sportsmanship BUT that is his right. Unless prior to matches the players are given contracts or other stipulations are put on their gameplay GOM should have no say on how a game plays out. Essentially they punished Nani for his lack of sportsmanship. However I call bullshit on GOM's behavior to expel Nani his code S spot for his lack luster play....... If GOM wants a perfect product than games should be scripted to make them have the highest possible entertainment value......... Would any of you watch that? | ||
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cYaN
Norway3322 Posts
On December 15 2011 17:51 EGalex wrote: For those of you who, after reading this, agree that NaNi's actions were unacceptable, but still blame GOM for utilizing a format which allows for inconsequential matches, I would ask you to consider holding players to higher standards of professionalism; and to also consider the fact that it's not GOM's responsibility to cater their format solely to suit players. GOM's job (as is the case with any professional sports league) is to provide a quality product to its viewers, while providing its competitors with fair, reasonable playing conditions, and the Blizzard Cup's format balanced these factors acceptably. Additionally, I would also point out the fact that, as illustrated above, every major professional sports league utilizes a format in which there are meaningless games. By your logic, All-Star games shouldn't even exist. I agree with a lot of what Alex says, except the above paragraph. I feel perfectly comfortable wanting to hold players to a higher standard of professionalism while at the same time putting some blame at gom's (and any other organization) feet for having stupid formats. If you brought NASL's regular season into this part of the argument i'd be more inclined to agree, but not these much shorter tournaments. I have problems with NASLs format for similar reasons (and others), but that's a whole other thing. In terms of group play (which is where the thing happened, and had the possibility of happening at all, it was a 1day event. (1day per group). Also the comparison to the all-star games is, not to be rude, simply stupid. | ||
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TemujinGK
United States483 Posts
5/5 | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10967 Posts
 .I don't get why people don't see the problem. You don't purposefully lose a game, it's the worst thing a progamer can do. He can not give is all to it. Thats fine (just cannonrush/4 gate... who cares, play something that could win). He can play some weird shit. Thats fine (even Bratok and Stephano, while obviously wanting to lose did this and i was actually entertained by that offensive Hatchery/Spinecrawler-Rush vs BC-Rush game). He can not just send his first probes in the direction of his opponent and remove his hand from the keyboard/stop playing. | ||
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JimSocks
United States968 Posts
Naniwa does it, and the lynch mob is out in full force. Maybe it is a cultural thing. Foreigners doing it against othet foreigners, okay. Do it against korean, pitchforks | ||
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ArchDC
Malaysia1996 Posts
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Stringy
United States127 Posts
On December 16 2011 00:37 Velr wrote: Brilliant post .I don't get why people don't see the problem. You don't purposefully lose a game, it's the worst thing a progamer can do. He can not give is all to it. Thats fine (just cannonrush/4 gate... who cares, play something that could win). He can play some weird shit. Thats fine (even Bratok and Stephano, while obviously wanting to lose did this and i was actually entertained by that offensive Hatchery/Spinecrawler-Rush vs BC-Rush game). He can not just send his first probes in the direction of his opponent and remove his hand from the keyboard/stop playing. You enjoy being fooled for your own amusement? | ||
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RenardDesMers
France76 Posts
At the moment of the game, I prefered seeing that probe rush that made me laugh than a poorly executed 4gate that would have really meant nothing. Do GOM subscribers pay to watch a stupid 4gate ? I doubt so. I prefer spending my time seeing the next match if he wasn't capable to play a real game. Please don't fake it. Then what's the line ? Would a carrier / mothership rush be fine ? | ||
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Eee
Sweden2712 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10967 Posts
On December 16 2011 00:42 Stringy wrote: You enjoy being fooled for your own amusement? IFirst and foremost I enjoy being amused. If you have to fool me to amuse me, then i support you to fool me. I don't expect the best game ever from two players being 0-3 in their group. BUT i expect a game. What Stephano and Bratok did was wrong too, but it was WAY better than what Naniwa did. Stephano/Bratok still delivered a game, Naniwa did not. | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10967 Posts
On December 16 2011 00:45 Fjodorov wrote: The people who agree with GOMs decision obviously think that this was the right way to handle the "throwing game" issue. So this is a rule and a principle you agree should be used in a global event. I expect all of you to demand very harsh punishments for anyone who does anything similar in any global/international tournament after this. The main arguement seems to be the one of sportsmanship and professionalism. That means that whether the game is broadcasted or not shouldnt matter and the size of the tournamens is not important either. The principle you claim to stand for now you must defend after this, regardless of the player, team, nationality. Uhm, ok? And you are supporting everyone throwing their matches left and right because they don't feel like playing no matter the audience or anythign?... | ||
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hkf
Australia354 Posts
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Stringy
United States127 Posts
On December 16 2011 00:44 Velr wrote: IFirst and foremost I enjoy being amused. If you have to fool me to amuse me, then i support you to fool me. I don't expect the best game ever from two players being 0-3 in their group. BUT i expect a game. What Stephano and Bratok did was wrong too, but it was WAY better than what Naniwa did. Stephano/Bratok still delivered a game, Naniwa did not. Ok. Just to make sure we are on the same page. As long your amused you don't care if you've just been tricked or deceived into that joy... doesn't matter how or why, so long as your being amused? I guess ignorance really is bliss. edit: nice ninja edit | ||
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E.H Eager
United States227 Posts
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