• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:44
CEST 20:44
KST 03:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)76ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo31Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Mizenhauer's Douyu Cup Preview
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
Fact based Zerg Upgrade Tier List Best thing happen to StarCraft since Remastered? ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 16225 users

Kespa & SC2 - Page 7

Blogs > motbob
Post a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next All
KingRajesh
Profile Joined July 2010
United States927 Posts
October 29 2011 04:04 GMT
#121
Fuck KeSPA, I hope they go bankrupt.

SC2 > BW

Foreigner Scene > Korean Scene.

The Mecca of Starcraft 2 needs to be in America.

User was temp banned for this post.
"Zerg are the absolute worst thing that can happen to your day" - Dustin Browder
xHerodotusx
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom114 Posts
October 29 2011 04:07 GMT
#122
motbob makes a great point: this doesn't mean the foreign scene dies but it means that it will no longer interact with the Korean scene, which is what's making starcraft II so interesting at the moment.

I question whether KESPA will be able to play as heavy-handidly as they did in BW, largely due to Blizzard denying LAN, although I don't think GOM will be much of an issue for them to tackle. I can't see GOM being able to stand up in any kind of fight against KESPA for control over SC2 broadcasting rights, KESPA is simply too strong.

It will be interesting, if this all goes through, to see whether the foreign scene will be able to pick it up and compete with the Koreans. Maybe this will be the impetus needed; or it could just result in a subpar foreign scene that has no interaction with the Korean one.
ZerO - Seal - Life - Taeja - Parting - Squirtle
yawnoC
Profile Joined December 2010
United States3704 Posts
October 29 2011 04:45 GMT
#123
Hopefully this time around KESPA does things differently since they see how big of a market the foreign scene can actually be now.

I doubt they will ... but I can hope.
GG - UNiVeRsE is the best player in the WORLD
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
October 29 2011 05:03 GMT
#124
On October 29 2011 12:36 Nayl wrote:
This just seem like fear mongering.

SC2 and SCBW are two completely different monster. Kespa ignored foreign scene in BW because there wasn't much of a "scene" to begin with. Where as with SC2, there is a very solid foreign scene that Kespa can use to grow a scene in Korea (Hey look, the world is playing this game!) as well as contributing to scene outside of Korea (JD/Bisu/Jangbi/fantasy visiting blizzcon).

Also as long as Gretech holds the right to broadcast SC2 in Korea, we have someone that's check-and-balancing KesPA from monopolizing the scene the way they did in BW.


It stupid to even consider it monopolizing. You wouldn't say FIFA is monopolizing football. It's just attempting to be an official body for eSports there. Not sure why people are so comfortable with Gretech, a business that exists to make a profit (and is just under the total whim of Blizzard anyway), controlling the SC2 scene more than KeSPA. Not to say they wouldn't monetize their tournaments in a similar way but least the money is supposed to all go back into funding the whole scene.

I'd be more worried about Blizzard's total control than anything else. Not only taking a cut of revenue despite it being free promotion, which is lame in the first place. Relocating the GSL finals to Blizzcon, while it was maybe a good move for the foreign scene how do Korean's feel about their primary tournament being halfway across the world? Their actions there already seem to annoy a lot of people since the launch.

On October 29 2011 13:00 Treadmill wrote:
The one thing I really don't understand about KeSPA is how they became the gatekeepers between sponsors and players. Its a mystifying situation for which I really can't see any equivalents - especially considering that KeSPA isn't essentially an ancillary organization to the BW scene.


KeSPA are the sponsors.. it's made up from representatives of the various sponsors.
TedJustice
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1324 Posts
October 29 2011 05:15 GMT
#125
Foreigners are a little spoiled right now.

I think things won't stay this way forever. And as long as we can still see entertaining, high level games, I'll be happy, no matter who's participating.
T0fuuu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia2275 Posts
October 29 2011 05:27 GMT
#126
As much as OSL/WCG crap in the face of gomtv's tiny little studio and flaunt their superior production and experience, I think that gomtv has a really good image for being interactive and co-operative with their international audience. It wasnt that long ago that we had english interviews with players and english observers, something that would probably never happen in an osl. We've also had subs for yellow's series and a huge drive to have foreign teams/players in gstl/gsl and a world championship and blizzard cup. I dont think that winning a mlg would ever berth you into an osl but we see a real will to to improve the league, whether it is by fixing the format, changing maps, changing broadcast schedules... anything! You can comfortably say that Mr Chae is trying really hard to make it a Global starleague and reach out from korea to the world. Something that kespa hasnt really done.
taldarimAltar
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
973 Posts
October 29 2011 05:30 GMT
#127
I want english streams still, i hope kespa finds out that a bulk of sc2 populairty come from outside of korea and in turn cash in on that oppourtunity. Hopefully blizzard will have a hand in negotiations
rasers
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden691 Posts
October 29 2011 05:35 GMT
#128
Gom only goes for Foreigners cause no one in korea gives a fuck about Gom.

oh and "Kespa Forced them out of Gom Leagues?" i mean just 2 weeks ago there was the poll with "how much Broodwar in a week" and players opinions. and they all said it was 2 much right now. and then people still want a 3rd league? while 2 were already freaking 2 much?.

the players didnt care abotu the gom league they didnt even practice for it so they pulled out in the end.
Bayyne
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1967 Posts
October 29 2011 06:19 GMT
#129
@infinity2k9 - I think people, including myself, are comfortable with Gretech, aka GOM, running SC2 in Korea because we've seen how open GOM has been in promoting global esports: the league exchange program through MLG, allowing foreign players a place to stay at the GOM house, no license requirements, etc.

Regarding the relocation of this past GSL finals to Blizzcon: I'm sure GOM was the one interested in doing that, not Blizzard forcing them to play @ Blizzcon. I don't think the viewership numbers are public, but I can guess that this past GSL finals was probably really high up there in views.

Regarding KESPA, as many have mentioned we will need to see how both Blizz and Gretech handles the broadcasting license issue that would surely arise. Personally, I just don't think KESPA would have such strict entry requirements once everything becomes mobilized into SC2. The game right now is too big on a global scale, and it will only get bigger.

Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.
DEN1ED
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1087 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-29 06:29:30
October 29 2011 06:24 GMT
#130
On October 29 2011 11:32 Cataphract wrote:
Blizzard controls Starcraft 2. No LAN means KeSPA can't just start up a tournament without their permission. If KeSPA starts to kill relationships with the foreign scene, don't set up english streams, and what not, Blizzard could theoretically step in and say "Hey, that's not cool guys."

No LAN in the game is the best thing Blizzard did to prevent situations like the one that happened in BW. All the power is in Blizzard's corner.


You act like blizzard has all the power and 100% complete control. There is a reason bliz invited BW pros to blizzcon. They want what kespa has. Top players. Blizzard wants kespa to switch to SC2 because it will increase the popularity of their game. If blizzard doesn't allow kespa some freedom to run things how they want, they will just keep playing BW.

People in here are acting like kespa is begging blizzard to let them broadcast SC2 and they are going to have to bend over backwards to every little blizzard command.
AndAgain
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2621 Posts
October 29 2011 06:50 GMT
#131
What would KESPA have against foreign fans/players? That part isn't explained anywhere. The fact that it shunned English casting in BW doesn't prove anything. SC2 popularity outside of Korea far exceeds that of BW, so to turn away the foreign market would be giving up potential profit. Some of you guys have weird conceptions of how business works.
All your teeth should fall out and hair should grow in their place!
GuiltyJerk
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States584 Posts
October 29 2011 06:54 GMT
#132
Why couldn't the foreign scene just continue? It might slow down, but I doubt I'm alone in that I'd have no problem watching foreigner only tournaments especially if there's some monopoly that makes the only broadcasts out of Korea in Korean only.
Polarexia
Profile Joined November 2010
United States383 Posts
October 29 2011 06:54 GMT
#133
With all this hullabaloo and excitement about The Old Ones coming people haven't been mentioning this very important point. Glad someone else has been thinking the same thing I have. I really hope everything works out because Blizzard actually has a say this time. I think either Kespa's gotta go or drastically change from what it was in BW. Someone spotlight this please? It's a very important point that I don't see being discussed enough.
mtvacuum
Profile Joined January 2010
United States979 Posts
October 29 2011 06:58 GMT
#134
nice, if foreigners can't keep up by their own merit, then good riddance. and korean commentary is way better than english, sorry, so good riddance to that too.
TheGiftedApe
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1243 Posts
October 29 2011 07:30 GMT
#135
I will hold out hope for kespa. Afterall they are a business, they have to know of Gomtv's great foreigner ratings. Not allowing foreigners to play would definitely hurt them.
xO-Gaming.com || [xO]TheGiftedApe.364 || xO-Gaming Manager.
Gann1
Profile Joined July 2009
United States1575 Posts
October 29 2011 07:41 GMT
#136
On October 29 2011 15:54 GuiltyJerk wrote:
Why couldn't the foreign scene just continue? It might slow down, but I doubt I'm alone in that I'd have no problem watching foreigner only tournaments especially if there's some monopoly that makes the only broadcasts out of Korea in Korean only.


this is what happened in BW. it was shitty for the foreign scene, as you can see by the fact that everyone switched to sc2 when it came out.

you don't want this, trust me.
I drop suckas like Plinko
PHC
Profile Joined March 2011
United States472 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-29 08:15:51
October 29 2011 07:57 GMT
#137
On October 29 2011 15:50 AndAgain wrote:
What would KESPA have against foreign fans/players? That part isn't explained anywhere. The fact that it shunned English casting in BW doesn't prove anything. SC2 popularity outside of Korea far exceeds that of BW, so to turn away the foreign market would be giving up potential profit. Some of you guys have weird conceptions of how business works.


They don't have anything against foreigners at all. Once again, KeSPA represents the sponsors funding the league. GOM goes out of its way because their product is consumed globally. They have a foreigner house, Code A spots for foreigners, and English casting for its primary consumers, which happen to speak English.

Why would companies such as SK-Telecom and Hwaseung, Hite, Lecaf, etc. have any interest in a foreign market when their products are only consumed in Korea?

Why would a Korean bank, a Korean cell-phone company, a Korean beer company, etc... want to set up English casting for their Starcraft league, when their consumers and target audience are 99% Korean? There is no way a Korean corporation is stupid enough to invest money in English casting if their products are only consumed by Koreans. If you want to see English casting, it would have to be approved by KeSPA and be funded by a different source (such as Blizzard).

Think about it. If you are a corporation that makes products that can only be consumed in a single country, why would you waste funding and advertising money to cater to anyone outside of said country? Why should they treat foreign progamers any differently from Korean progamers (in terms of Code-A spots, separate training house, etc)?

Unless you have global corporations that are willing to invest millions of dollars to sponsor professional Starcraft teams in Korea, the system will stay in place. I don't know, maybe McDonald's or Coca-Cola or Pepsi can be convinced to fund the teams to improve their reputations in a niche market? One can only hope.
edoZ
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada14 Posts
October 29 2011 08:40 GMT
#138
On October 29 2011 07:48 motbob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2011 07:38 Torte de Lini wrote:
On October 29 2011 07:34 motbob wrote:
On October 29 2011 07:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
On October 29 2011 07:20 motbob wrote:
On October 29 2011 06:55 Torte de Lini wrote:
There's no upside to this? You make it sound like Kespa is all bad news with a bump of legitimacy and professionalism within Korea (but not outside)

Once again, you've failed to read the entire post.


I read the whole thing, do you want me to summarize and dictate which points I'm referring to and how little how positive points you make besides the beginning layered introduction that introduces Kespa and its high standards?

There is clearly an upside to this whole situation. It's definitely a good thing for us, the SC2 spectators. I make that pretty clear at the end of the post. Without Kespa you cannot have the BW top talent.


Yeah, but those are minimal. Of course the bar is raised in terms of standards of "high-level" play, but the exchange is more and we lose the english narrative that you were talking about and eventually we lose the key players we have now in terms of business people, companies and/or more players and thus the separation of players in Korea and Foreigners is strengthened.

Will this affect the mix 'n' match that we have going on now? Koreans on Foreign teams and vice-versa? If this separation does ensue, will new foreign blood begin to propser faster as they are given more opportunity given Koreans are back in their base and thus a void must be filled with potentially new players?

That's what I'm wondering.

Hmm, you say that that consideration is minimal but I don't agree. Remember: a lot of us veterans used to spend a great deal of time watching Korean BW with Korean commentary and loving every bit of it. The skill of the players made it all worth watching, and we didn't need an English voice telling us why we were enjoying ourselves. If SC2 were to both receive a massive infusion of talent and lose all English streams from Korea due to GOM's death, I would not complain too much.

The "key players" that we would lose would be replaced by Kespa. They would probably not have any interaction with the foreign community, but they would fulfill their job of strengthening the Korean esports scene well enough.

The mix 'n' match going on right now will be a non-factor whenever GOM becomes a non-factor. Do you really think that Kespa is going to bring eight-odd teams into its fold?

I really like your "I am a vet and I know everything" tactic. It really extends your e-penis. Am I right?

User was temp banned for this post.
kota
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark84 Posts
October 29 2011 09:10 GMT
#139
Theres no doubt in my mind that Kespas going to be dominant. But remember, the foreigner scene is way stronger now than it ever was in BW.
PHC
Profile Joined March 2011
United States472 Posts
October 29 2011 09:30 GMT
#140
On October 29 2011 17:40 edoZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2011 07:48 motbob wrote:
On October 29 2011 07:38 Torte de Lini wrote:
On October 29 2011 07:34 motbob wrote:
On October 29 2011 07:25 Torte de Lini wrote:
On October 29 2011 07:20 motbob wrote:
On October 29 2011 06:55 Torte de Lini wrote:
There's no upside to this? You make it sound like Kespa is all bad news with a bump of legitimacy and professionalism within Korea (but not outside)

Once again, you've failed to read the entire post.


I read the whole thing, do you want me to summarize and dictate which points I'm referring to and how little how positive points you make besides the beginning layered introduction that introduces Kespa and its high standards?

There is clearly an upside to this whole situation. It's definitely a good thing for us, the SC2 spectators. I make that pretty clear at the end of the post. Without Kespa you cannot have the BW top talent.


Yeah, but those are minimal. Of course the bar is raised in terms of standards of "high-level" play, but the exchange is more and we lose the english narrative that you were talking about and eventually we lose the key players we have now in terms of business people, companies and/or more players and thus the separation of players in Korea and Foreigners is strengthened.

Will this affect the mix 'n' match that we have going on now? Koreans on Foreign teams and vice-versa? If this separation does ensue, will new foreign blood begin to propser faster as they are given more opportunity given Koreans are back in their base and thus a void must be filled with potentially new players?

That's what I'm wondering.

Hmm, you say that that consideration is minimal but I don't agree. Remember: a lot of us veterans used to spend a great deal of time watching Korean BW with Korean commentary and loving every bit of it. The skill of the players made it all worth watching, and we didn't need an English voice telling us why we were enjoying ourselves. If SC2 were to both receive a massive infusion of talent and lose all English streams from Korea due to GOM's death, I would not complain too much.

The "key players" that we would lose would be replaced by Kespa. They would probably not have any interaction with the foreign community, but they would fulfill their job of strengthening the Korean esports scene well enough.

The mix 'n' match going on right now will be a non-factor whenever GOM becomes a non-factor. Do you really think that Kespa is going to bring eight-odd teams into its fold?

I really like your "I am a vet and I know everything" tactic. It really extends your e-penis. Am I right?


They were both addressing some good points, yet you decide to write insults instead of adding to the discussion, what, all because he used the word "veteran", which he is?

If you don't understand something, why not ask?
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
15:55
FSL TeamLeague: ST vs POG
Freeedom26
Liquipedia
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
14:00
Playoffs Day 1/2
Bonyth vs TerrOr
eOnzErG vs Dewalt
XuanXuan vs TBD
ZZZero.O336
LiquipediaDiscussion
Maestros of the Game
12:30
Offline Playoffs
Serral vs herOLIVE!
ComeBackTV 4684
RotterdaM2481
WardiTV1464
TaKeTV 882
IntoTheiNu 781
Ryung 758
IndyStarCraft 378
SteadfastSC297
BRAT_OK 247
Rex209
EnkiAlexander 165
CosmosSc2 113
3DClanTV 100
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 2481
Ryung 758
IndyStarCraft 378
SteadfastSC 297
BRAT_OK 247
Rex 209
CosmosSc2 113
MindelVK 29
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 18449
EffOrt 1215
ggaemo 462
ZZZero.O 336
actioN 184
Movie 54
Rock 26
Pusan 26
sorry 23
Sacsri 12
[ Show more ]
ivOry 10
Dota 2
Dendi968
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
ScreaM4120
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor326
Other Games
FrodaN2413
Grubby1564
byalli303
KnowMe146
Trikslyr49
UpATreeSC47
JuggernautJason7
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1976
gamesdonequick1457
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 40
• Response 9
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV386
Other Games
• imaqtpie907
• Shiphtur459
Upcoming Events
Douyu Cup 2020
10h 17m
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
19h 17m
Mihu vs TBD
Online Event
20h 17m
RSL Revival
1d 7h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 16h
RSL Revival
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Bombastic Starleague
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
OSC
4 days
[ Show More ]
CrankTV Team League
4 days
Bombastic Starleague
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
HomeStory Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
HomeStory Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
WardiTV Spring 2026
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
Douyu Cup 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
ASL Season 22:Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.