EPTkespa has been a dick in the past, but now if they want to grow as a company, get their players to an international market that they know already exists, they will need to play ball with everyone else. their closed market views on things really does make me kinda mad. imagine how bw could be in korea if they supported grass roots play and promoted their sport to the rest of the world. how much bigger could brood war of been? who knows, but now with sc2 we get to see that ESPORTS can be global and kespa has to take to note of this.
Kespa & SC2 - Page 5
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
kespa has been a dick in the past, but now if they want to grow as a company, get their players to an international market that they know already exists, they will need to play ball with everyone else. their closed market views on things really does make me kinda mad. imagine how bw could be in korea if they supported grass roots play and promoted their sport to the rest of the world. how much bigger could brood war of been? who knows, but now with sc2 we get to see that ESPORTS can be global and kespa has to take to note of this. | ||
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Lavalamp799
United States554 Posts
On the other hand, when you think of sports like baseball, basketball, etc.. There are always different leagues for different countries. The difference in SC2 is that we have started out with the entire world mixing into different leagues, and like it (for the most part) how it is. I just hope for the best, and hope GOM and Kespa can co-exist, both offering English streams. | ||
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jjhchsc2
Korea (South)2393 Posts
great read! | ||
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Stiluz
Norway688 Posts
On October 29 2011 07:48 motbob wrote: Hmm, you say that that consideration is minimal but I don't agree. Remember: a lot of us veterans used to spend a great deal of time watching Korean BW with Korean commentary and loving every bit of it. The skill of the players made it all worth watching, and we didn't need an English voice telling us why we were enjoying ourselves. If SC2 were to both receive a massive infusion of talent and lose all English streams from Korea due to GOM's death, I would not complain too much. The "key players" that we would lose would be replaced by Kespa. They would probably not have any interaction with the foreign community, but they would fulfill their job of strengthening the Korean esports scene well enough. The mix 'n' match going on right now will be a non-factor whenever GOM becomes a non-factor. Do you really think that Kespa is going to bring eight-odd teams into its fold? Yes, that may appeal to hardcore veterans or players, but what has made SC2 so big internationally this time around has been English casters, bringing tons of casual fans (the majority of the fans and players, the casual bronze-gold league players). If there is a split in the broadcasting and only international tournaments get international exposure, the scene will be split anyway, and loses a lot of its international appeal (I can imagine far less non-Korean pros would go to Korea if they would get less international exposure. After all, their sponsors are outside of Korea with a few exceptions.) I have many friends that watch SC2, mostly casual players, but I'm sure that if there were to be any form of split, less English streams, less non-Koreans at the top competing with Koreans... they wouldn't care anymore. Hell, I feel I'm a fairly hardcore sc2 stream viewer, and I would never, ever, watch a Korean stream without the likes of Tastosis etc. I really pray Kespa will not play an important role in the SC2 scene in the years to come. I want what we have now, a hugely growing scene with great player, great tournaments with a lot of storylines (Idra vs MC f. ex) and players I can relate to. No pro-license bullshit, absolutely anyone with talent can go in an open bracket and prove themselves or get scouted by a team. Are we getting the S-level games? Hm, hard to say. But I'd rather watch an A+ game between IdrA and Bomber, than an S-level game between Jaedong and Flash with only Korean commentaries and a more closed and split SC2 community. | ||
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sondrizzle
Norway15 Posts
Furthermore; the Koreans probably realize that there is a lot of prize money in the foreign scene, and although some of the BW pros have a lot more in salaries than those that play SC2, you cannot completely disregard the prize money. MC for instance made over 200 000 USD in prize money during his prime some time back. I'm a bit wary however considering how things went before, but I'm positive that the change will be positive for everybody following eSports. | ||
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BuddhaMonk
781 Posts
First, Korean players will now have a legitimate choice if they don't like a very hardline Kespa. If a guy like Huk can get a roughly ~80k/year salary, that represents an option for top tier Korean players that did not exist in BW. The second is the international audience cannot be ignored. In BW there was no international scene to speak of, but despite all of Kespa's faults (which you outlined in your post) they are not stupid and they like money. International audiences represent growth and cash for them. Both of these forces are out of Kespa's control and will put pressure on them. If your doomsday scenario were to occur, I would guarantee that we would see a big split among Korean players, some joining foreign teams, maybe even some of the top players joining foreign teams. This would be a disaster for Kespa. | ||
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suejak
Japan545 Posts
It's absurd and stupid, wow. The OP must never read the real news or take any classes on real things. | ||
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Snorkle
United States1648 Posts
Does that mean that Kespa will once again keep its players from playing in GOM leagues? Many Korean players right now attend MLG, Dreamhack, IEM etc. by having a foreign team they are partnered with foot the travel bill. Will Kespa allow players to travel the world to every major tournament as is the current state of SC2 tournaments? Even if they do, I find it hard to think that Korean telecommunication companies would be interested in paying for players to fly to the NA or EU to play as the people watching can not even purchase their product if they wanted to. That is not very effective advertising. More like a waste of money. | ||
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suejak
Japan545 Posts
On October 29 2011 10:30 Snorkle wrote: There are many questions to be answered if Kespa starts SC2. They likely will not bring the GSL teams into their SC2 leage. Does that mean that Kespa will once again keep its players from playing in GOM leagues? Many Korean players right now attend MLG, Dreamhack, IEM etc. by having a foreign team they are partnered with foot the travel bill. Will Kespa allow players to travel the world to every major tournament as is the current state of SC2 tournaments? Even if they do, I find it hard to think that Korean telecommunication companies would be interested in paying for players to fly to the NA or EU to play as the people watching can not even purchase their product if they wanted to. That is not very effective advertising. More like a waste of money. Who would be willing to pay? International companies. SC2 is bigger than Korea. This isn't BW. Fuck SK Telecom, man. Think bigger. You know how many people were paid to travel around the world regularly to play BW? Pretty sure that answer is about zero. You know how many people are paid to travel around the world regularly to play SC2? Dozens! At least! | ||
Harem
United States11393 Posts
On October 29 2011 10:17 jjhchsc2 wrote: hmmmm i am pretty sure flash won courage on his first try . great read! He lost to Jangbi. Q: You will meet  Flash in the Round of 8.A: Flash is a player that after his debut, has been continuing to put out consistent results. He has received attention ever since he was a practice partner and has been reigning as the best player for over 5 years. But as for me, I have a positive momentum following me. I have an experience where I defeated Flash in the 2005 Courage Tournament finals and acquired qualification to become a semi-progamer. | ||
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Lord_J
Kenya1085 Posts
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bearbuddy
3442 Posts
I'm getting confused about the whole debacle between KesPA and GOM intel classic. KesPA didn't forbid the teams from participating in Intel Classic s3, the teams themselves chose not to participate (notably OGN and MBC because they are the starcraft channels, after all). KeSPA sanctioned the event. GOM then folded because of the lack of interest. I'm not connecting the dots of Kespa killing intel classic and isolating the foreign community. | ||
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On October 29 2011 10:18 Stiluz wrote: Yes, that may appeal to hardcore veterans or players, but what has made SC2 so big internationally this time around has been English casters, bringing tons of casual fans (the majority of the fans and players, the casual bronze-gold league players). If there is a split in the broadcasting and only international tournaments get international exposure, the scene will be split anyway, and loses a lot of its international appeal (I can imagine far less non-Korean pros would go to Korea if they would get less international exposure. After all, their sponsors are outside of Korea with a few exceptions.) I have many friends that watch SC2, mostly casual players, but I'm sure that if there were to be any form of split, less English streams, less non-Koreans at the top competing with Koreans... they wouldn't care anymore. Hell, I feel I'm a fairly hardcore sc2 stream viewer, and I would never, ever, watch a Korean stream without the likes of Tastosis etc. I really pray Kespa will not play an important role in the SC2 scene in the years to come. I want what we have now, a hugely growing scene with great player, great tournaments with a lot of storylines (Idra vs MC f. ex) and players I can relate to. No pro-license bullshit, absolutely anyone with talent can go in an open bracket and prove themselves or get scouted by a team. Are we getting the S-level games? Hm, hard to say. But I'd rather watch an A+ game between IdrA and Bomber, than an S-level game between Jaedong and Flash with only Korean commentaries and a more closed and split SC2 community. Don't you understand what is happening in games without a caster telling you how everything is epic and amazing? As many people have said anyway this topic is kinda weird, it's basically criticizing KeSPA for not making handicaps for foreign players and apparently courage and other things being a result of xenophobia. Which i think is totally wrong. | ||
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suejak
Japan545 Posts
On October 29 2011 10:52 infinity2k9 wrote: Don't you understand what is happening in games without a caster telling you how everything is epic and amazing? Some of you guys just go to such lengths to show exactly how far in the hardcore niche you are. I don't even watch most of my SC2; I listen to it out of one ear. | ||
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Fission
Canada1184 Posts
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Goibon
New Zealand8185 Posts
What does scare me is the thought that i will have to watch kespa run events to see the best play. My moral code won't allow me to do that until the P is put back into Kespa. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
Edit: and i agree with the post on this page about the GOM Classic being a teams choice not to be involved... the schedule of the MSL/OSL/Proleague alone affects players performances very clearly. It was just never needed. People seem to have a seriously manufactured outrage against KeSPA on here, including people who were not even around before 2010. The main issue from BW fans was simply some harsh rules which allowed some games where players got disqualified. Now it was silly, but they were the decided rules and the referee at the time made the decisions. From those now the KeSPA myth has got into ridiculous evil empire levels; most people still don't even understand how the organization is made up of the sponsors and not a totally separate entity. People keep going on about them being greedy and solely trying to make money when it's a non-profit organization. Now a staff member makes a post like this and it's pretty much misleading and making the myth even worse. | ||
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Stiluz
Norway688 Posts
On October 29 2011 10:52 infinity2k9 wrote: Don't you understand what is happening in games without a caster telling you how everything is epic and amazing? As many people have said anyway this topic is kinda weird, it's basically criticizing KeSPA for not making handicaps for foreign players and apparently courage and other things being a result of xenophobia. Which i think is totally wrong. Of course I do. I would still find it far, far less entertaining though, like watching football without commentary (only exception being being live at the actual stadium with 100,000 other fans, but how often can I do that?) | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On October 29 2011 09:59 motbob wrote: Afaik, GOM were taking a loss on the Classic seasons by catering to foreign audiences. It just wasn't a profitable venture. I think OGN/MBC had a different goal in setting up their leagues. For starters, there was no esports industry when they started and they did the pioneering work to get things sustainable. That meant finding sponsors that catered to their korean audience - and as such focused on trying to be sustainable. After all, OGN always streamed content from WCG afaik even when xellos/silent_control were eliminated ^^. I wouldn't say that they were anti-foreigner rather that it was a unprofitable venture. Afaik, OGN milked the foreigner presence in the early days of BW as well (e.g. Grrr and Elky). I dunno, I think that you might be misunderstanding my position towards Kespa. I don't think that Kespa are the "bad guys" or anything. The Korean scene might well have been better off with only OGN and MBC broadcasting games. It's probably a good policy (again, for the Korean scene) to restrict entry to individual leagues to only progamers with licenses. I definitely don't think that Kespa is trying to disadvantage foreigners by design. But Kespa, OGN, and MBC have a long history of simply not caring about foreign spectators, while GOM has a history of trying to reach out to them. GOM's past actions continued with their excellent foreigner SC2 broadcasts. I don't think that Kespa/OGN will attempt to similarly gain foreign viewership, and I think they'll run GOM out of business by being a million times better then them. I don't think that you can deny that it will be more difficult for foreigners to make it to Korea to practice under a traditional Kespa system than under the protections and benefits that GOM has offered. Similarly I can't see Kespa making a deal with MLG in the same vein of MLG's partenership with GOM. This isn't really an anti-Kespa blog, I think. It's just a neutral prediction of what I think will happen. I would be perfectly happy with a purely Korean scene with awesome play and loud Korean commentary. GOM's MLG seed is basically a way for Code S players who fell to Code B to get back in the easy way. Just look at who they have sent out each season. | ||
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