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Denmark989 Posts
Its a grueling scenario that could happen if it wasnt for one big difference between then and now.
In 2008 there wasnt a 3rd party to set the rules. There was no licenses to pay and broadcast contracts that could be denied renewal if that 3rd party which is Blizzard was not pleased. KeSPA was 100% in charge back then. Now however if KeSPA doesnt play ball like Blizzard want them to the can be denied a renewal of their broadcasting contract.
Right now negotiasions are between GOM, KeSPA and blizzard and the transition will not happen in the first place if all 3 parties do not come to an agreement that ensures them all to have their future secured.
The only scenario in which GOM could end up as loser is if Blizzard fucks over GOM. If Blizzard give KeSPA full control to push GOM out. I find that very unlikely.
At the same time KeSPA may be more interested in the foreign scene. In BW KeSPA had very little to gain from the foreign scene. At the very very best 10k viewers, no sponsors and no players that could seriously contend. SC2 already have a viewerbase of 100k+ and a lot of foreign talent that can be beneficial to the SC2 scene in Korea. Not to mention international sponsors that will benefit the scene even in Korea as well.
So while we can look at history and fear a repeat I dont think it is something we will ever see again. Blizzard wont allow that.
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i think the west is self-sustaining enough that koreans losing interest in the western scene wouldn't matter as much as you'd think
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Blizzard has an iron hold over kespa this time. If blizzard doesn't like the things kespa does (like cutting out international relations) blizzard can stop them from playing by denying service to their IPs. This is probably the #1 reason blizzard did not add LAN into sc2.
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Do you guys trust Blizzard to "protect us (the foreigners) from KeSPA?"
Protect might be the wrong word, but I trust TL's combined IQ to get the meaning.
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Major difference: BNet 2.0...Blizzard can exercise more control than KeSPA can.
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illsick
United States1770 Posts
I think the reason for BW players or KeSPA switching to SC2 would be because of the foreign scene and fan base (the Korean sc2 scene is not that big). So I don't think KeSPA will shut out the foreigners or the foreign fans.
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Thanks for giving a historical perspective. Most of us are simply to new to eSports to understand all the implications of the recent news.
Based on motbob's information: if we like the track SC2 is on now, KESPA entering the fray is bad news. If we prefer the way BW has been, KESPA entering the fray is good news. Either way, the level of play will no doubt rise dramatically, and a storm is coming.
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Canada1637 Posts
On October 29 2011 08:13 Primadog wrote:
Thanks for giving a historical perspective. Most of us are simply to new to eSports to understand all the implications of the recent news.
Based on motbob's information: if we like the track SC2 is on now, KESPA entering the fray is bad news. If we prefer the way BW has been, KESPA entering the fray is good news. Either way, the level of play will no doubt rise dramatically, and a storm is coming.
I think its apples to oranges. At the end of the day KeSPA is business people, that's why they didn't work with Blizzard and have has such a longstanding feud, the almighty dollar, and where do you think they will find the most $$$, in Korea? or in Korea + the rest of the world? KeSPA to me always seemed to act very self interested, and if they do so in SC2, it will not involve cutting out the access/participation of the foreign scene.
Don't fear the beast IMO.
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If kespa wants international audiences (which from the sound of it sounds like it does), then they will have to be open to foreign fans. That includes english casters and foreign players. If that's the case, then likely they will not enforce strict rules for their individual leagues. My guess is they will make rules for their pro league and teams which abide by those rules will be allowed entry. As far as progamer liscences. Those probably will be pro team liscences instead. Let's hope kespa is interested in the foreign community.
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On October 29 2011 06:53 Kroml. wrote:
I think it all comes to Blizzard in SC2, not KeSPA.
When Brood War became a national sport in Korea, Blizzard's approach to Brood War was not the same as now, to SC2.
Now Blizzard, literally "brought it" by pursuing lawsuits and negotiations, showing that "Starcraft II is Blizzard's, if you want to do something with SC2, you need to pass Blizzard"
Blizzard is SO aggressive and protecting about SC2, I don't think the "Dominant KeSPA Problem" will occur. If KeSPA, even tries a little, to isolate Korean scene and IF this causes the interest to decrease, Blizzard will immediately react.
Exactly! Blizzard owns everything for SC2 now. They played their cards perfectly by removing LAN. This makes it impossible for KeSPA to do anything SC2 related with out involving Blizzard, you need to go though battle.net. Blizzard doesnt want KeSPAs finals to go through, ban the events ip, now they have fans sitting there because KeSPA didnt play by the rules Blizzard put forwards.
KeSPA has one option to avoid Blizzard, and thats to use Chineese clients with the cracked LAN. If they stream a tournament thats using stolen goods to gain profit, and they are supplying the evidence to bring a lawsuit that has traction and isnt easily avoided. The whole piracy issue is massive, considering that the US spent untold millions to modify other countries piracy laws, its something that is less and less in favor of KeSPA and more in favor of Blizzard.
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BOB KOTICK AINT NO PUSHOVER
HE WILL RULE THIS SECTOR THIS GAME OR SEE IT BURNT TO ASHES AROUND HIM
srsli though, i think blizz or more than well prepared for the upcoming struggle, legal or whatever. blizz dictates this time because of the simple fact that there is no lan server. if kespa wants to even play a single game they'll have to have blizzard's permission. but there's not going to be a legal battle or anything, there's too much profit in this for both parties. mbc didn't shut down for nothing, all those teams didn't lose sponsors for nothing. bw is going down ( ) and kespa knows it, china isn't gonna save them but sc2 and blizz might.
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This is all assuming things go back to the way they were, however I see no indication of that happening. GOM's catering to foreigners more and more, this has to be an indication that the majority of their viewership is non-korean. I see no reason for KESPA as batshit as they may be, to throw away hundreds of thousands of viewers. Literally all they need to do is let foreigners qualify same as koreans and hire tastosis.
BW is dying in Korea. SC2 is exploding outside of Korea. KESPA needs us more than we need them.
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On October 29 2011 07:48 Flanagan wrote:
From what I've gathered with my short history of BW (aka reading the Starcraft Bible and doing a project that made me research bw history + relation w/ KeSPA)... Korean teams never necessarily had partnerships with foreign teams as they do now (QxG + IM, EG + SlayerS, coL + MVP, etc...)... wouldn't there be a lot more pressure on KeSPA to work with teams, since the teams can go "No, these foreigners are on our teams, why aren't you letting them participate?
They never disallow participation of a foreigner, as long as that player has the skill. In fact in their system the nationality doesn't matter, as long as you have the skill you can win Courage and get a progamer licence and get picked by a team and play on TV. They even had program to let foreigner practice with their teams and fight their way up to the A-team. The truth is, those foreigners just failed to win and had horrible winrates and so not suitable for competitive matches. In SC2, the foreigners DO have the ability to win and have a respectable winrate, so they will be given playtime, it's simple and it's the same for every sport. They just won't give foreigners unfair advantages like reserved place in tournaments or automatic competitive matches, they will need to win against other people to get there, like everyone else.
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On October 29 2011 08:27 Oreo7 wrote:
This is all assuming things go back to the way they were, however I see no indication of that happening. GOM's catering to foreigners more and more, this has to be an indication that the majority of their viewership is non-korean. I see no reason for KESPA as batshit as they may be, to throw away hundreds of thousands of viewers. Literally all they need to do is let foreigners qualify same as koreans and hire tastosis.
BW is dying in Korea. SC2 is exploding outside of Korea. KESPA needs us more than we need them.
You're exactly right. This motbob article is super sensationalist and obviously overlooking major points. This isn't BW. SC2 is far more popular outside of Korea than BW ever ever was. We have tons of money and huge crowds, tons of publicity. If KESPA ignored us, they'd be missing a lot of revenue that WOULD go elsewhere.
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On October 29 2011 08:24 prplhz wrote:BOB KOTICK AINT NO PUSHOVER HE WILL RULE THIS SECTOR THIS GAME OR SEE IT BURNT TO ASHES AROUND HIM srsli though, i think blizz or more than well prepared for the upcoming struggle, legal or whatever. blizz dictates this time because of the simple fact that there is no lan server. if kespa wants to even play a single game they'll have to have blizzard's permission. but there's not going to be a legal battle or anything, there's too much profit in this for both parties. mbc didn't shut down for nothing, all those teams didn't lose sponsors for nothing. bw is going down ( ) and kespa knows it, china isn't gonna save them but sc2 and blizz might.
Kotick is in no way involved with Blizzard. You need to learn how Vivendi (owner of both Activision and Blizzard) operates. They let blizzard do whatever they want because its still bringing in money. Last few quarters Activision was losing money, Blizzard kept both in the black. Blizzard is its own entity.
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On October 29 2011 08:29 suejak wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 08:27 Oreo7 wrote:
This is all assuming things go back to the way they were, however I see no indication of that happening. GOM's catering to foreigners more and more, this has to be an indication that the majority of their viewership is non-korean. I see no reason for KESPA as batshit as they may be, to throw away hundreds of thousands of viewers. Literally all they need to do is let foreigners qualify same as koreans and hire tastosis.
BW is dying in Korea. SC2 is exploding outside of Korea. KESPA needs us more than we need them. You're exactly right. This motbob article is super sensationalist and obviously overlooking major points. This isn't BW. SC2 is far more popular outside of Korea than BW ever ever was. We have tons of money and huge crowds, tons of publicity. If KESPA ignored us, they'd be missing a lot of revenue that WOULD go elsewhere.
Completely agree. There is actually a foreign market now, and for them to ignore that and shove foreigners out of Korean competition would be pretty detrimental to their potential growth. Furthermore, part of the appeal of switching to SC2 is the foreign viewer market, as SC2 is Korea isn't really large enough to warrant switching over. If kespa decides to alienate foreign participants from their leagues, I would imagine we'd see a similar response from western tournaments, which they obviously don't want.
I can't see them doing that to foreigners this time around. Your post draws its evidence almost entirely from BW, so I'm a bit skeptical.
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no
blizz is backed by activision backed by vivendi
vivendi is a big company and they can buy all lawyers in korea to protect their intellectual rights if need be
blizz couldn't do this before, even though they've always made great game they've always always been a small company
blizz was prepared for a situation like this with sc2 because of their experience with how they've had a hard time doing it with bw
my logic is pretty sound even though bob kotick wasn't lead designer on sc2
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On October 29 2011 08:35 JethroMoney wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2011 08:29 suejak wrote:On October 29 2011 08:27 Oreo7 wrote:
This is all assuming things go back to the way they were, however I see no indication of that happening. GOM's catering to foreigners more and more, this has to be an indication that the majority of their viewership is non-korean. I see no reason for KESPA as batshit as they may be, to throw away hundreds of thousands of viewers. Literally all they need to do is let foreigners qualify same as koreans and hire tastosis.
BW is dying in Korea. SC2 is exploding outside of Korea. KESPA needs us more than we need them. You're exactly right. This motbob article is super sensationalist and obviously overlooking major points. This isn't BW. SC2 is far more popular outside of Korea than BW ever ever was. We have tons of money and huge crowds, tons of publicity. If KESPA ignored us, they'd be missing a lot of revenue that WOULD go elsewhere. Completely agree. There is actually a foreign market now, and for them to ignore that and shove foreigners out of Korean competition would be pretty detrimental to their potential growth. Furthermore, part of the appeal of switching to SC2 is the foreign viewer market, as SC2 is Korea isn't really large enough to warrant switching over. If kespa decides to alienate foreign participants from their leagues, I would imagine we'd see a similar response from western tournaments, which they obviously don't want. I can't see them doing that to foreigners this time around. Your post draws its evidence almost entirely from BW, so I'm a bit skeptical.
I am shocked and appalled that people are ignoring years of experience provided by community veterans like motbob. Show some humility. They been here longer than you, and they're recognized figures for good reasons.
If it comes to a power struggle between KESPA and foreigner+GOM, we all lose, regardless of which side do you think comes up on top.
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I got scared reading this
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Thanks for putting to words what has been concerning me since this news broke.
It's that BW players could potentially be given a choice to compete on a new field of play (and I'm hoping nobody is forced, but that also wouldn't surprise me). It's fantastic that these players bring with them a level of dedication and professionalism (in that not only do they practice, but they practice in an organized manner) that could vastly improve the level of play across SC2. However, they bring with them an organization that has absolutely no understanding or respect for the vast international fanbase of this game. KESPA could potentially split the community in a way that not only harms the foreign players, but the cuts off the Koreans from potentially more exposure, better salaries, opportunities to travel the world at a young age, and everything else that comes with the truly international competition that we have today. The communities united have an opportunity to take SC2 to a level of recognition that BW was never able to achieve, but divided I don't see it progressing even to the same level of BW in Korea.
My main hope is that Blizzard currently maintains fairly tight reigns on all major competitions and they certainly could force KESPA to play nice with the international events.
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EPT
