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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On forums, especially better organized ones like these, we try to contextualize what we say by noting our skill levels, or at least, what leagues we are in. When a Terran player tells you TvP is broken because of a specific Protoss cheese, your response is (and should be) very different depending on whether they're a rank 30 GM player or a rank 30 Silver player. Most people gladly provide their ranking information to help provide an idea of where they're coming from. When I post in the Sc2 Strategy forum, I tend to begin by saying that I'm a Diamond league Terran-- if someone decides they only want advice from Masters+ players (a very reasonable decision, given the range of skill in Diamond league) they can skip right over my post only spending a few seconds on the first sentence.
In this respect, I am like many posters. However, there is a notable group of posters who, defying all reasonable expectation, begin their post with a sentence describing their league and proceed to describe absolutely nothing at all. Here are some examples, just from what I've seen today:
I'm a high diamond/low masters Terran I'm a gold/plat zerg I haven't actually played the game, but my brother is in diamond league...
Okay, that last one I made up. But, look at the first one. How are you high diamond SLASH low masters? You're either in Diamond League or you're in Master League; there's no gray area here, no matter how much you wish it to be so. Due to the way MMR / league promotion works, if you got promoted or demoted recently, you have to be pretty far into the MMR range of the league you were moved into. If you're rank 1 Diamond? Sorry, you're not "Diamond/Master's" you're "Diamond", at least for now.
This sounds a little harsh, but in reality, it's actually clarifying. Although I'd certainly love to call myself a "High Diamond / Low Master" player (even typing it here makes me feel good. "yeah," I think to myself, "I'm basically on par with the people at the bottom of master league. I might as well type that." It's a seductive little turn of phrase, and I see how once you start, you can't stop), I'm a Diamond League player, and until I get demoted or promoted, that's how I'll represent myself. It's an important distinction, I think.
 
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i haven't actually played the game, but i was c- on iccup, therefore i am a better authority on sc2 than anybody who isn't masters.
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
Yeah, I know 
But maybe it'll convince someone of something. I don't even know if the general Sc2 Strat rabble even pays attention to blogs ((
I also forgot one notable "type" of waffling, where they don't' even say they're "high diamond / low master" they'll just say "I'm a Diamond/Master Terran"... I'll add that in.
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I write that because i am both diamond and masters, depending on the account. I thought that was why most people wrote it that way?
Either way it doesnt matter, he could say he was GM and you wouldnt know if it was actually true. I actually trust people who say "gold/silver" more than people who just say "i'm high masters", because anyone can say that they're high masters or GM.
But yea, i dont really mind, and in some cases people really are both bronze and silver or whatever.
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Well I only play customs but I won against a silver leaguer in a bo3 once, I can beat gold players every time with ease because they play standard, but I usually lose to people in bronze because they cheese so much. Oh, and my sister is platinum and I watch her play all the time, so I figure I'm at least high plat/low diamond.
jk, I'm sry :/
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As a high masters player I don't see this happening. Everyone has an ego. Best way to deal it it is just ignore it.
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On June 30 2011 01:49 danl9rm wrote:
Well I only play customs but I won against a silver leaguer in a bo3 once, I can beat gold players every time with ease because they play standard, but I usually lose to people in bronze because they cheese so much. Oh, and my sister is platinum and I watch her play all the time, so I figure I'm at least high plat/low diamond.
jk, I'm sry :/
I think what you're failing to take into account is that, as a guy who hangs out with a gold/platinum / diamond / master league zerg player that basically makes me a master/diamond league terran player.
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I don't see a huge problem with it. Yeah, some of it is just people exaggerating their skill, believing that they have the potential to play in a higher league but aren't for whatever reason. And yeah, that's lame.
But in some cases, it's warranted. What about that diamond guy who hasn't laddered for months, but consistently keeps pace with his masters friends in custom 1v1s? What about that guy who is in masters, but switched race and guesses he's probably playing at diamond level?
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Just assume the lower rank. Problem solved.
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As a mid-to-high-gold-ranked-but-I've-been-playing-against-some-rank-30-or-40-plat-opponents level player, I can tell you that those distinctions actually quite important. Addressing your example, it's common knowledge that there is a fundamental difference between the high-platinum-to-mid-diamond and high-diamond-to-low-masters metagames. It's almost impossible to play a true macro game at the high-plat-to-mid-diamond level, everyone there is so cheesy, but the high-diamond-to-low-masters level is a grand utopia of hour-long macro games, full of intense standoffs decided only by minute differences in unit positioning and micromanagement, a vortex of strategy unparalleled in its glory.
[/sarcasm]
But seriously, I would just do your best to ignore it, it's a way for people to tell themselves that they are better than their ladder ranking says, or that they've been improving.
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On June 30 2011 01:56 Cofo wrote:
I don't see a huge problem with it. Yeah, some of it is just people exaggerating their skill, believing that they have the potential to play in a higher league but aren't for whatever reason. And yeah, that's lame.
But in some cases, it's warranted. What about that diamond guy who hasn't laddered for months, but consistently keeps pace with his masters friends in custom 1v1s? What about that guy who is in masters, but switched race and guesses he's probably playing at diamond level?
Heh, I got a friend like that. Was like D+/C- in BW plus has played a fair amount of customs so hes pretty good. But he doesnt ladder so hes unranked this season and low platinum last season. Just to make it worse, he plays a different race in team games than 1v1s so the "most played race" thing in his profile is not really right.
Me and him play 1v1 play/obs sometimes and its always funny as shit when some masters guy dies to the seemingly offracing platinum guy! :D
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Papua New Guinea1059 Posts
People just do that to either boost their ego or they feel they're actually higher in skill than their league is showing because of playing customs etc. And it won't stop for sure.
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haha I especially love the "well I've been playing a lot of X players recently and winning ~90%, still waiting for the promotion since 5 months ago."
Really, the community wouldn't be the same without these players that aspire to be greater.
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heh, yeah I've noticed a lot of this as well... sadly it wont change just assume the lower one is their actual division and it's normally how it works. You'll never see somebody IN masters actually say "I'm high diamond/low masters" it would be incredibly silly of them. So the people who did that aren't really fooling anybody =p
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Well I'm Masters on my main Protoss account and Diamond on my secondary one. What now?
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On June 30 2011 02:28 Snaiil wrote:
Well I'm Masters on my main Protoss account and Diamond on my secondary one. What now?
You're only as strong as your weakest account.
Sup?
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On June 30 2011 01:45 Caller wrote:
i haven't actually played the game, but i was c- on iccup, therefore i am a better authority on sc2 than anybody who isn't masters Grandmasters.
Seriously though, this bugs me too. On iccup it was acceptable since you would fluctuate between ranks pretty often if your skill happened to be lying on a border, but in sc2 it's ridiculous.
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Yeah, I imagine people feel better about themselves and think that maybe they will leave the impression that their level is a bit higher. I find it a bit pathetic...
There's also the "i'm high platinum/gold/silver" that for me falls in the same category... who give a... where on the platinum division you are? High diamond is relevant because it means you're close to Master and where you are in Master/Grandmaster is relevant because of how hard it is to further refine your play at that level. Nobody is impressed that you massed points in bronze and you are first in you division, you are still bad at the game.
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On June 30 2011 02:47 VaultDweller wrote:
Yeah, I imagine people feel better about themselves and think that maybe they will leave the impression that their level is a bit higher. I find it a bit pathetic...
There's also the "i'm high platinum/gold/silver" that for me falls in the same category... who give a... where on the platinum division you are? High diamond is relevant because it means you're close to Master and where you are in Master/Grandmaster is relevant because of how hard it is to further refine your play at that level. Nobody is impressed that you massed points in bronze and you are first in you division, you are still bad at the game.
Actually, being at the top of your bronze division might as well be a mark of shame-- you've played hundreds of games but have not improved to silver level...
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If its not a blue post i always take it as an opinion.
I also never give my league or w/e... i very rarely post in the strategy.
Like has been said having them announce their league doesn't solve anything becuase people lie.
I read peoples opinions and never take anything they say as facts without sources.
Just my opinion as a rank one grandmasters on the Korean server.
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On June 30 2011 02:47 VaultDweller wrote:
There's also the "i'm high platinum/gold/silver" that for me falls in the same category... who give a... where on the platinum division you are?
It depends on how active the division is -- that is to say, divisions with lots of players who use up their bonus pool will be sorted roughly by MMR. Divisions which are largely inactive (like mine) make it just a measure of activity.
MMR isn't necessarily comparable between active and inactive players either, though, because the MMR is a snapshot in time from when that player was last playing actively, and usually when people stop playing they get worse.
Edit: I agree with the OP. "I'm a bronze/silver/gold Zerg" is nonsense. 
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I'm actually a low masters toss/high diamond terran (seriously, I got tired of playing as terran when I was in diamond, and ranked up to masters when I switched over to toss).
That having been said, I'm pretty sure I'll get demoted soon.
Also, I'm top masters *cough* in 4v4 *cough*
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Might you also suggest that people post their regions as well? The consensus is that NA is an easier server than KR/EU.
People will give as much information as they want--bad advice isn't going to automatically sort itself from good advice for you.
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yeah i see this a lot from some friends of mine, one of them saying he's a gold "level" player when he's blatantly silver, it's BS tbh. Not that you can do anything to stop people from doing it, just ignore it. I can understand writing a blog to get out frustration though ^^
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On June 30 2011 03:19 Loser777 wrote:
Might you also suggest that people post their regions as well? The consensus is that NA is an easier server than KR/EU.
People will give as much information as they want--bad advice isn't going to automatically sort itself from good advice for you.
Well, your Region is already indicated since you have a country next to your name here on TL. My usual assumption is that if someone is located in Korea, they're on KR, and if someone is in Europe, they're on EU.
I'm not asking that bad advice sort itself out automatically for me; I'm just noting that, given that someone is already putting effort into clarifying his league, he might as well, you know, clarify his goddamn league.
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I think it would be cool if you actually knew what tier of diamond you were in so you could say high diamond if you are in the top tier of diamond. Either way though, I do agree with you, I rather see someone say high diamond rather than high gold/low platinum. I wish the system was actually harder and had rankings like ICCup so I could actually know how much I suck at Starcraft.
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I'm high silver/low masters and your opinion is just wrong.
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It's pretty safe to assume they are just the lower half the two leagues. Also pretty safe to assume they are trying to inflate their ego and their advice is probably crap.
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On June 30 2011 01:45 Caller wrote:
i haven't actually played the game, but i was c- on iccup, therefore i am a better authority on sc2 than anybody who isn't masters.
Fun thing is, thats probably true....
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Blazinghand one of the reasons I made GM my ultimate goal in SC2 is just to have authority over other people's opinions in stream chats when people start throwing out leagues and rankings lol.
Gold Player - "roach ling all-in so imba"
Master player - "its not impossible to stop you know?"
Gold Player - "the fuck do you know bronzie? I make the right amount of units n i still cant defend"
Master Player - "well u need to micro em well ya kno, and I'm a masters player btw ^^"
Gold Player - "wow get off ur high horse jus cause ur masters dont u mean u kno everyting"
Me - "SUP GUYS U CAN CALL MEH GRANDMASTA SNUGGLEZ AS A GOD TO ALL YOU LESSER SC2 PLAYERS I SAY U SHOULD JUST MAKE A STARGATE"
and of course I'm just going to put out the fact I'm a GM along with a SC2ranks links and offer no helpful advice. haha
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Everyone needs to stop making posts and blogs about people contextualizing their statements with their SC2 league/rank.
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On June 30 2011 04:45 Snuggles wrote:
Blazinghand one of the reasons I made GM my ultimate goal in SC2 is just to have authority over other people's opinions in stream chats when people start throwing out leagues and rankings lol.
Gold Player - "roach ling all-in so imba"
Master player - "its not impossible to stop you know?"
Gold Player - "the fuck do you know bronzie? I make the right amount of units n i still cant defend"
Master Player - "well u need to micro em well ya kno, and I'm a masters player btw ^^"
Gold Player - "wow get off ur high horse jus cause ur masters dont u mean u kno everyting"
Me - "SUP GUYS U CAN CALL MEH GRANDMASTA SNUGGLEZ AS A GOD TO ALL YOU LESSER SC2 PLAYERS I SAY U SHOULD JUST MAKE A STARGATE"
and of course I'm just going to put out the fact I'm a GM along with a SC2ranks links and offer no helpful advice. haha
This sounds like the best of all possible worlds!
OP: How do you stop Roach Ling allin if you went for an early expo as protoss?
Snuggles: I'm a GM player on the North America server. I'm rank 103 GM, which is pretty mid range (for GM), but that still makes me very qualified.
OP: Uh... okay....
Gold Leaguer: OMG ROACH LING ALLIN IMBA
Master Leaguer: it's not impossible to stop you know?"
OP: Okay, um, does anyone have any suggestions?
Snuggles: Yes, heres a link to my profile on SC2ranks. worship me.
I need to become like that.
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I'm a bronze/master player and I'm proud of it.
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On June 30 2011 02:47 VaultDweller wrote:
Yeah, I imagine people feel better about themselves and think that maybe they will leave the impression that their level is a bit higher. I find it a bit pathetic...
There's also the "i'm high platinum/gold/silver" that for me falls in the same category... who give a... where on the platinum division you are? High diamond is relevant because it means you're close to Master and where you are in Master/Grandmaster is relevant because of how hard it is to further refine your play at that level. Nobody is impressed that you massed points in bronze and you are first in you division, you are still bad at the game.
I disagree with this post. There is such a wide spectrum of players in diamond and masters that it does make a difference. I player w. 1800 pts in masters vs a player with 900 points in masters is quite a disparity even though one is high masters and the other is mid masters. So I do think whether they are high/mid/low is important. Just my thought
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On June 30 2011 05:22 SoKHo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2011 02:47 VaultDweller wrote:
Yeah, I imagine people feel better about themselves and think that maybe they will leave the impression that their level is a bit higher. I find it a bit pathetic...
There's also the "i'm high platinum/gold/silver" that for me falls in the same category... who give a... where on the platinum division you are? High diamond is relevant because it means you're close to Master and where you are in Master/Grandmaster is relevant because of how hard it is to further refine your play at that level. Nobody is impressed that you massed points in bronze and you are first in you division, you are still bad at the game. I disagree with this post. There is such a wide spectrum of players in diamond and masters that it does make a difference. I player w. 1800 pts in masters vs a player with 900 points in masters is quite a disparity even though one is high masters and the other is mid masters. So I do think whether they are high/mid/low is important. Just my thought
That's fair, but I think The Vaultinator was talking specifically about people in the low leagues. He does mention that "High Diamond is relevant", and there is a fairly large skill gradient in Diamond league.
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On June 30 2011 05:22 SoKHo wrote:
I disagree with this post. There is such a wide spectrum of players in diamond and masters that it does make a difference. I player w. 1800 pts in masters vs a player with 900 points in masters is quite a disparity even though one is high masters and the other is mid masters. So I do think whether they are high/mid/low is important. Just my thought
That's only true if they've both used all their bonus points. If the 900 pt. master player has 900 bonus points saved up, they might well be just as good and getting along on less practice (though I don't think it's possible to have 900 points and 900 bonus points saved up, so these specific numbers don't work that well.)
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Like other said, it isn't gonna change. Other people will always want to know people's ranks in order to see if their advice is viable. That's just how things are right now.
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On June 30 2011 05:32 vectorix108 wrote:
Like other said, it isn't gonna change. Other people will always want to know people's ranks in order to see if their advice is viable. That's just how things are right now.
I think this is less about telling your rank so much as it is about inflateing your rank a bit.
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As a high bronze/low grandmaster protoss I disapprove of this initiative.
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On June 30 2011 02:32 Xenocide_Knight wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2011 01:45 Caller wrote:
i haven't actually played the game, but i was c- on iccup, therefore i am a better authority on sc2 than anybody who isn't masters Grandmasters. Seriously though, this bugs me too. On iccup it was acceptable since you would fluctuate between ranks pretty often if your skill happened to be lying on a border, but in sc2 it's ridiculous.
you can be high masters with grandmaster skill level (its pretty hard to get into grandmaster even if you're better than some players in there) im about 50% winratio vs grandmasters but im stuck in masters
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Just because you have a 50% winrate against players in a higher league doesn't mean you are good enough to be in that league. It is just as likely that your higher-leagued opponents have a bad MMR as that you have a really high MMR.
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On June 30 2011 04:47 Zlasher wrote:
Everyone needs to stop making posts and blogs about people contextualizing their statements with their SC2 league/rank.
I think Blazinghand is talking more about players who do contextualize their statements with their SC2 league and not helping/contributing to the discussion with their post at all. Rather than people who contextualize with their league in general.
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On June 30 2011 05:54 iamho wrote:
Just because you have a 50% winrate against players in a higher league doesn't mean you are good enough to be in that league. It is just as likely that your higher-leagued opponents have a bad MMR as that you have a really high MMR.
im not getting this.. >.<
you're saying they're too bad to be in GM?
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When i first read the thread title I presumed it was a rant on People Typing Like This.
Anyway, back on topic I think its just that people say this so people take them more seriously and I honestly can not fault them for doing that even if it doesnt make a difference.
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I think it was Blazing who mentioned it to me a while ago, but think about it, a guy who is in masters wouldn't describe himself as master(SLASH)diamond or diamond/master. He'd be proud of being a master league player. Only the lower-ranked player would say "diamond/masters" or any other in-between description of ranking.
In short, nobody is ever at their highest estimate.
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On June 30 2011 01:45 Caller wrote:
i haven't actually played the game, but i was c- on iccup, therefore i am a better authority on sc2 than anybody who isn't masters.
This is actually absolutely correct.
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On June 30 2011 01:45 Caller wrote:
i haven't actually played the game, but i was c- on iccup, therefore i am a better authority on sc2 than anybody who isn't masters.
This is probably true. Which is kinda scary :S
On the topic though, I can understand when people wanna make that difference known. As someone said before in the thread, the difference beetwen players just say 400 points in masters are so damn noticeable. But bragging/writting it eveywhere or in every post seems kinda overdoing. My thoughts on it.
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your Country52797 Posts
I'm a high gold, but since I beat high platinums and lose to mid golds, I believe I am in the nonexistant league of "What the heck". Therefore, since I am in a league not existing, I have the authority to approve this message.
Edit: Since when am I a zealot? I don't even use those very much!
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On forums, especially better organized ones like these, we try to contextualize what we say by noting our skill levels, or at least, what leagues we are in. When a Terran player tells you TvP is broken because of a specific Protoss cheese, your response is (and should be) very different depending on whether they're a rank 30 GM player or a rank 30 Silver player.
Absolutely not. If rank 30 Silver players criticize an aspect of pro games they have seen, they should get the same answer as anyone else. However, if they're referring to their own games, how would a rank 30 silver player be aware of what's broken based on their deeply, deeply flawed playstyle? I mean, I play in masters and I'm definitely not qualified to pass judgment on the game's balance. At least not based on my games, which are seriously affected by my inability to play this game well.
If you're rank 1 Diamond? Sorry, you're not "Diamond/Master's" you're "Diamond", at least for now.
It's funny how people will brag about being "number 1 diamond" which only means "unable to get into masters". Like Blazinghand said, being at the top of your bronze division might as well be a mark of shame. That was well said.
On June 30 2011 11:44 TheAwesomeTemplar wrote:
I'm a high gold, but since I beat high platinums and lose to mid golds, I believe I am in the nonexistant league of "What the heck". Therefore, since I am in a league not existing, I have the authority to approve this message.
Edit: Since when am I a zealot? I don't even use those very much!
If you do that consistently and play a reasonable amount, you'll be promoted.
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As a high masters/low grandmasters poster here, i think that people should be able to post their league and then post their ****league that bnet messed up and has not placed them there yet*****league
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I want it to be like broodwar where everyone just says the highest they've every reached, then everyone's B-, I mean masters.
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Im a masters ranked Terran, but i sill lose to diamond players ocassionally. That's why I usually use something like diamond/low masters.
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United States10774 Posts
"Terran is my main and terran is the funnest. Macroing well and microing the units is so satisfying. The amount of control you can have on the match up if you play well is also rewarding.
I am Masters btw."
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I totally approve of this message
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Stop Doing This People. Stop Hurting eSports.
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EPT
