On November 11 2010 23:34 Klamity wrote: Some people are saying, "well don't tune in if you don't like it." Unfortunately, the majority of us are not mind-readers and cannot predict everything that will happen next. The idea was excellent - providing a glimpse into a post-tournament setting for "professional" players. You can hardly blame anyone for tuning in, but at that point, perhaps you should consider your audience isn't composed entirely of mindless idiots.
Let me get this straight - you were surprised and unable to predict the use of off-color language at an impromptu cast at a late-night after-party celebrating the close-out of a stressful and epic 3-day event in a hotel room filled with alcohol, pizza, and twenty-somethings?
Had written a wall of text here, but then i realised that it was a lost cause and i saw no point in turning this thread awsell into a flame-war.
I will just say that when you are watching something filmed in a casual setting do not expect everyone to be politically correct. If you are anal about everyone being PC, avoid casual streams/shows.
For the best thing about casual shows are that people are not PC, many weivers enjoy seing that side of people and think it creates much more interesting TV (or VOD or whatever).
That is it really, casual setting are generally not PC, be it TV, streams, whatever. And that is the whole god damn point, dont like it stay clear.
As I said, no offense. The way you came across was a bit retarded, and I knew I probably wasn't getting the whole picture. I actually reread both posts and yes, you obviously are not a retard.
If anything, I am a retard for skimming a post and then referencing it in my own.
Using the term "retarded" is a bit extreme/immature in terms of vocabulary if you're trying to tell someone ELSE that their points aren't well made. Probably are better terms you could have used to properly convey your statement Caek.
On November 12 2010 00:18 ZlaSHeR wrote: Using the term "retarded" is a bit extreme/immature in terms of vocabulary if you're trying to tell someone ELSE that their points aren't well made. Probably are better terms you could have used to properly convey your statement Caek.
Yes you're right, that's why my other posts were a bit more thoughtful. and it's why I edited my previous post.
I had similar experiences with the lines of professionalism in my job as an RA the last few years. The department expected us to live on a floor with over 50 college freshman and be a walking billboard for professionalism and policy enforcement.
The very first night I took out a PVC "stripper pole" and attempted to swing around on it in the hallway. So much for "professionalism", huh? I straddled the line too and in the end had an awesome year, an awesome floor, and had one of the top three retention rates out of 130 RAs.
What you're doing is building a community. You have to bend the rules of social etiquette to get any of that accomplished. As a spectator I don't want to listen to some stiff in a suit, I want to listen to someone I can relate to, someone a little more real. Take Day9 for instance. His cast of the Combat-Ex vs. Chill showmatch was vulgar, dropped profanities every 30 seconds, and is definitely NOT what you want to send to a major company as an audition piece. I'm sure your shows with porn star guests are probably out of that picture too! The point is you won our respect by being real to us so we're going to listen and support you in events like MLG that are a little more on the professional side.
On November 11 2010 23:34 Klamity wrote: Some people are saying, "well don't tune in if you don't like it." Unfortunately, the majority of us are not mind-readers and cannot predict everything that will happen next. The idea was excellent - providing a glimpse into a post-tournament setting for "professional" players. You can hardly blame anyone for tuning in, but at that point, perhaps you should consider your audience isn't composed entirely of mindless idiots.
Let me get this straight - you were surprised and unable to predict the use of off-color language at an impromptu cast at a late-night after-party celebrating the close-out of a stressful and epic 3-day event in a hotel room filled with alcohol, pizza, and twenty-somethings?
Makes you wonder when the stream should go off. Before the cast began, I wasn't aware of the contents. I was expecting a party where they discussed what had just happened, not the crude jokes.
I didn't have an issue with language and personally I'm not horribly offended. I'm just defending the people who were offended, because I can see why they were.
Hater's gona hate, wheat... I loved the show. I laughed so fucking much while listening to it in the computer lab at my school that I actually had people looking at me weird. Keep it up!
On November 11 2010 23:34 Klamity wrote: Some people are saying, "well don't tune in if you don't like it." Unfortunately, the majority of us are not mind-readers and cannot predict everything that will happen next. The idea was excellent - providing a glimpse into a post-tournament setting for "professional" players. You can hardly blame anyone for tuning in, but at that point, perhaps you should consider your audience isn't composed entirely of mindless idiots.
Let me get this straight - you were surprised and unable to predict the use of off-color language at an impromptu cast at a late-night after-party celebrating the close-out of a stressful and epic 3-day event in a hotel room filled with alcohol, pizza, and twenty-somethings?
Makes you wonder when the stream should go off. Before the cast began, I wasn't aware of the contents. I was expecting a party where they discussed what had just happened, not the crude jokes.
I didn't have an issue with language and personally I'm not horribly offended. I'm just defending the people who were offended, because I can see why they were.
Yes, after a long weekend of meeting people that you get to see a few times a year in the biggest north american SC2 event after release, we all just like to sit in a room with alcohol, sip on it a little bit, drink, but never get drunk, and discuss the finer points in life.
Look, almost everyone there is in the 20-26 year old range, they just had a long successful event and wanted to wind down, the fact that they worked so hard to get us coverage of an after-party is pretty f'ing incredible on their part to allow us to experience that a bit. Believe it or not, when nerds gather, they like to have fun too.
I would just like to chime in on the Live on Three discussion that was a part of SotG.
First off, I am a huge djWheat fan. I have enjoyed his commentary and commitment since the days of TsN. He has always been 100% committed to bringing esports to the forefront of media. All of his shows have been really well put together and I am 100% thankful for his contributions to the scene. This naturally extends to Slasher and Scoots.
With that said, I was quite shocked at the location choice for Live on Three. I personally didnt mind the setting. Being a 26 year old male, I know that it is entirely necessary to cut loose and have a good time. I know that it is entirely possible to be a professional while still knocking back a few beers and hanging out with some friends. From a personal standpoint, I thought the Live on Three was great. I enjoyed it more than seeing him just sit behind his computer with Scoots and Slasher talking over skype.
However, like I said, I am surprised that wheat decided to air an "official" Live on Three at a party. He, more than anyone else, should know that potential sponsors and interest groups will look at a community before dumping money into it. It isnt that *I* was appalled at the setting, I just know that if a company like ESPN looked at live on three as a source for community maturity and professionalism, that broadcast would reflect poorly not on the live on three cast, but the starcraft 2 community. If a potential investor saw the Lo3 MLG episode without having previous knowledge of wheat, scoots, and slasher, it would be a terrible first impression based on the environment alone.
This isnt a "Shame on you" post, but I would really like to hear why the Live on Three cast decided to cast in that room at that time. Especially when starcraft 2 is growing at the rate that it is. We are really nearing the cusp of blowing up the US esports scene. I think we, as a community, really need to be on our best behavior.
I understand the fact that wheat is providing a free service, but it is a very popular free service. There are only a couple of personalities that stick out when I think of starcraft 2: Day9, Wheat, JP, Artosis, and Tasteless. Those are really the "faces" of SC2 right now. These are the faces that promote SC2 outside our community. Why negatively impact someones view on SC2, and esports in general, by the setting of a live show?
----
As an extention since I read this blog afterwards~
Wheat: Do you really think we are that far off from being under a microscope? Look at how fast SC2 is growing compared to any game. Already, it is putting games like CS(which was *the* e-sports game while in its prime), Halo, and Quake to shame.. and the game hasn't even been out for 6 months.
Korea already proved that RTS can be a great viewing platform. With the updated graphics and easier controls it is going to be a lot easier for foreigners (both players and media) to leech off the success in Korea. GSL is already offering a huge prize purse every month. Europe, especially germany, is nearing Korea status. I think it wont be that much longer until you see mainstream media outlets in the Americas to realize there is money to be made in e-sports.
Basically, I think we are a lot closer than you think we are, and I am a bit surprised that you don't see that SC2 is growing faster than any other e-sport in the US. I have been around the esports scene as long as you(as a fan and player.. not a content provider). In the ten years I have been following esports, I have never seen a game outgrow capacity in the same fashion SC2 has been doing at MLG.
On November 11 2010 23:34 Klamity wrote: The most disturbing part about all of this is that people find watching a bunch of nerds getting drunk interesting. Seems to me like people enjoy it because it gives them a chance to live vicariously through your show, which more or less was the ultimate fantasy for a lot of gamers/nerds. To each his own I suppose.
Dismissing the OP's letter as a bunch of crap doesn't seem like the correct approach to me. He made a calm, collective argument and whether you agreed with it or not, it wasn't something you can shoot down claiming it was wrong. You're so worried about the community and audience, but you seem to be neglecting the fact that he was part of that audience as well. The 24 pages of flame buried the fact that he actually liked 98% of your show.
Some people are saying, "well don't tune in if you don't like it." Unfortunately, the majority of us are not mind-readers and cannot predict everything that will happen next. The idea was excellent - providing a glimpse into a post-tournament setting for "professional" players. You can hardly blame anyone for tuning in, but at that point, perhaps you should consider your audience isn't composed entirely of mindless idiots.
Il like your casting and the work you've done, but this is unbelievably close-minded.
If you think the show was "a bunch of nerds getting drunk" then you A. didn't watch it, and B. are making a gross assumption about the entire content. That's far more closed minded than my own arguments. In fact, I didn't even bring up the OP of the closed thread. I simply stated my own feelings on the matter. I never said someone was WRONG, or what he said was WRONG.
I didn't attack a single person or poster, yet you're doing it to me. How am I being closed-minded but you are not?
On November 11 2010 21:30 Morfildur wrote: I didn't see the show and i liked your casting at the MLG, but with this post and some of your replies in this thread (yes, i read all 10 pages existing when i started writing this post... including the "Toys'r'us child", "don't want to grow up",... seriously?) you lost a lot of my respect.
In the US it might be normal to party, get drunk, make bad jokes, laugh about blow job jokes, ... but you have an international audience (though thanks to bad american comedy shows - where they even tell you when to laugh - the difference isn't that big anymore sadly).
Maybe i'm just too old and don't understand your generation (though i'm propably younger than you, but since you don't want to grow up... well...), but i really don't like this immature attitude, no matter _where_ someone shows it. I don't respect TaKeSen for hiring a stripper to a tournament either (and thats me working in the adult industry maintaining a system storing and managing over 100 Terabyte Porn).
Well, i guess someone has to be the clown (or if you prefer, entertainer) for the lower classes so they never learn to rise above themselves and learn to be more than just... children.
Who do you rather be? The young marine on the battlefield who has an exciting, though quite short life, or the commander of the battleship in orbit?
Yes, this post might offend you and possibly a lot others, but well, have fun with your partying, spring breaks, comedy shows, college football,... come back to this post when you have finally grown up in about 30-40 years. Well, ok, if the world develops as i expect it will be in ruins by then, so i just hope everyone grows up before then... but i don't expect it.
Just a Note: To those who said the event was at night, children shouldn't watch it anyways... it's always afternoon somewhere on the world and some children might watch it (though i don't think it's the strongest argument against such a stream).
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. I'm 33, married, have a kid. You base your entire response off of 10 words that I said out of 1000... that is just laughable. You obviously didn't even watch the show and just assume that it was nothing but vulgar and worthless content thrown out for no reason at all. That is hardly the case.
I wish people would have at least WATCHED the program before making horribly incorrect statements about it.
I watched the show and I saw nothing vulgar, I must have missed it reading an email or something seriously. It's petty business. These moral crusaders are spewing lunacy in the face of a rational everyday person and show. :S DjWheat owes nothing and has given us great entertainment dudes.
On November 11 2010 22:39 Morfildur wrote: Or even people that have no/only limited good manners even when sober (of which djWheat seems to be one).
Seriously, where do you come up with this? I have no or limited good manners when I'm sober? Can you please direct me to the Unicorn Library where the Loch Ness Monster helped you find the information you based this statement on?
On November 11 2010 22:39 Morfildur wrote: Or even people that have no/only limited good manners even when sober (of which djWheat seems to be one).
Seriously, where do you come up with this? I have no or limited good manners when I'm sober? Can you please direct me to the Unicorn Library where the Loch Ness Monster helped you find the information you based this statement on?
Yeah I have talked a lot and met DJwheat in person. He is one of the coolest people out there and is one of the nicest guys to boot. He just likes to swear, SOOOO???
I can't believe Wheat's OP didn't pull an all kill.... This seems to be the trend on TL lately, bitch about every single thing at all the people that spend hundreds if not thousands of hours putting content out to the community.
People should be thanking Wheat for being involved in the community, he bring a lot of fans for other different genres and immediately puts a level of credibility to the SCII community that we would not have without him to the other communities.
On November 12 2010 02:15 Siffer wrote: However, like I said, I am surprised that wheat decided to air an "official" Live on Three at a party. He, more than anyone else, should know that potential sponsors and interest groups will look at a community before dumping money into it. It isnt that *I* was appalled at the setting, I just know that if a company like ESPN looked at live on three as a source for community maturity and professionalism, that broadcast would reflect poorly not on the live on three cast, but the starcraft 2 community. If a potential investor saw the Lo3 MLG episode without having previous knowledge of wheat, scoots, and slasher, it would be a terrible first impression based on the environment alone.
I'm sure ESPN was absolutely appalled. Any company that would make investment decisions off of something like this would have to be run by complete clowns.
I'm honestly compelled to just repeat what I've said since everybody threw it out the window. I watched majority of the broadcast, in no way was it crossing any "border", I did miss the controversial part at the end but by that TIME most general vulgarity is acceptable in our mainstream culture. Hell even past 10pm you can talk all you want about almost anything on LOCAL RADIO, not just a random cast on the internet.
I don't understand the big deal here, it seems like somebody started trolling saying it was vulgar than everyone else hopped onto the wagon. If you were honestly offended, turn off the stream. Nobody is forcing anyone's hand in watching anything, the only thing going on here is a group of people ruining it for everyone else. How often do you see a behind the scenes cast, with insight from a ton of the players, and sponsors? Hint: usually happens in locker rooms after sports championships, it's normal. Shit gets rowdy for a reason. Wheat feels unappreciated, I agree.
EPT
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