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You can try to pull off some Timid Butterfree, but ultimately it's just way too slow - even in UU.
Butterfree really has a nice moveset, and compoundeyes is cute, but... it just isn't fast enough or bulky enough to do much of anything.
Your best bet is Timid Butterfree, max speed EV, @focus sash; you can sleep whirlwind then try to get lucky and kill something / do a bit of damage?
On September 10 2010 11:33 infinitestory wrote:
I'm pretty sure Butterfree can't OHKO most dragons, even with HP Ice.
Nah, max Sp.Atk EV's on a Butterfree will kill any dragon that is 4x to ice (meaning most of them)
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i think we're all assuming its ou. but it may be able to do something in nu or nfe (though its not... nfe...)
idk though, not familiar with those tiers at all lol.
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United States4053 Posts
On September 10 2010 12:16 synapse wrote:You can try to pull off some Timid Butterfree, but ultimately it's just way too slow - even in UU. Butterfree really has a nice moveset, and compoundeyes is cute, but... it just isn't fast enough or bulky enough to do much of anything. Your best bet is Timid Butterfree, max speed EV, @focus sash; you can sleep whirlwind then try to get lucky and kill something / do a bit of damage? Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 11:33 infinitestory wrote:
I'm pretty sure Butterfree can't OHKO most dragons, even with HP Ice.
Nah, max Sp.Atk EV's on a Butterfree will kill any dragon that is 4x to ice (meaning most of them)
I ran a damage calculation, max SpA Butterfree HP Ice on the standard 252/0 Dragonite doesn't actually kill. You can, however, kill Flygon (although good luck killing it before it kills you)
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About how he says smogon doesn't give butterfree enough credit, if this is a serious comment then he's obviously retarded. Butterfree is a joke at best, it's paper. It loses 50% to SR everytime it shows on the field, it's stats aren't even 400 BST afaik. Even a Jumpluff is better if you want something to sleep with.
His recommendations:
- Movepool 1: Anti-Dragon -
1. Hidden Power (Ice/Dragon) You know most dragons are (dragon / flying) typing or (dragon / ground), so why the hell would you go HP dragon? Also, good luck with your 80 special attack on butterfree.
2. StunSpore (Grass) - Gimmick at best, you can easier thunderwave with a more potent pokemon in the slot instead
3. Twister (Dragon) - Are you fucking retarded? This is not Pokemon on the game boy.
4. Swagger (Normal) - This is not challenge cup either.
- Movepool 2: Anti-Steel Lead-
1. Hidden Power (Fire)
2. Sunny Day (Fire)
3. Solarbeam (Grass)
4. U-Turn (Bug)
Yeah. All I can say is good luck with heatran.
The third movepool is a complete mess and joke and I wont even bother on commenting about it, it's just 4 random moves thrown together.
All in all, butterfree has horrible stats, some pokemon are just unusable because of their stats or typing, butterfree unfortunately holds both accountable to his misfortune. The idea of using compoundeyes to help with its status moves is an idea that should trigger in almost everyone's head when they read about butterfree power, however, it cannot be put to much use with it's 70 base speed stats. You're much better using a breloom (also 70 base speed but much more broken), or even a smeargle if you want to have a fast sleeping pokemon as your lead. Stun spore is a good status move, however, you're much better with a more bulky pokemon with thunder wave, this way you're able to spread the status across for maximum usage instead of a one time thing.
In summary, butterfree is too weak to be used competitively, and is only there as a lead to put slower opponents to sleep. For sleeping lead alternatives, it's best to use Roserade, breloom, or smeargle. Personally, I would recommend scarf venusaur.
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I've posted arguments so far. I'll post his response when I get it
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On September 10 2010 11:41 kineSiS- wrote:
You sure the /b/ wasn't related to 4Chan ?/?
ofcourse it was
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On September 10 2010 12:22 infinitestory wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 12:16 synapse wrote:You can try to pull off some Timid Butterfree, but ultimately it's just way too slow - even in UU. Butterfree really has a nice moveset, and compoundeyes is cute, but... it just isn't fast enough or bulky enough to do much of anything. Your best bet is Timid Butterfree, max speed EV, @focus sash; you can sleep whirlwind then try to get lucky and kill something / do a bit of damage? On September 10 2010 11:33 infinitestory wrote:
I'm pretty sure Butterfree can't OHKO most dragons, even with HP Ice.
Nah, max Sp.Atk EV's on a Butterfree will kill any dragon that is 4x to ice (meaning most of them) I ran a damage calculation, max SpA Butterfree HP Ice on the standard 252/0 Dragonite doesn't actually kill. You can, however, kill Flygon (although good luck killing it before it kills you)
Isn't Dragonite the highest Sp.Def dragon (that is 4x weak to ice)?
I think mence is 80 sp.def, garchomp is somewhere around there, same for flygon (I have one in my team yay).
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- Movepool 1: Anti-Dragon -
*Generally, this Butterfree is designed to go against Dragon Pokemon. Try not to laugh too hard. Give Butterfree King's Rock for bonus flinching, or Focus Band so it can live longer (assuming one knows to train Effort Values in Defense/Specials of both sorts more than Speed. Speed without the other stats is fairly insubstantial. Butterfree has better Specials than Speed, and Defense and Speed are on-par with each other. Ditto for HP if you're REALLY conscious about Effort Values. Think about it, maybe laugh a bit harder if you'd like).
1. Hidden Power (Ice/Dragon. Hidden Power is a move that, while initially Normal, changes type to one dependent on Individual Values) [If it's a shiny, you have to have Dragon because it's that or Hidden Power Grass in terms of options for shinies.] - Most, if not all Dragon Pokemon, are doubly weak to Ice. Being part-Flying shouldn't intimidate the player, especially if the Hidden Power is Ice. If the Hidden Power is Dragon, that's fine also. In fact, Kingdra will suffer more [severe] hits from Hidden Power Dragon anyway.
2. StunSpore (Grass) - The Speed of most Dragons is phenomenal and needs to be lowered to confront them anyway. Prevention is also a good thing.
3. Twister (Dragon) - Flinching and denting a person with a Dragon lead. Also, Twister does more damage to Pokemon who use Fly/Bounce. This move is a Tutor-only move, and Butterfree can learn this one.
4. Swagger (Normal) - Confusion > Sleep, Confusion > Poison, and Confusion > Attract. Combine with Paralysis and you have a lockdown, especially if the player likes switching a lot.
-King's Rock is completely useless on a Butterfree; Butterfree NEEDS that focus sash
-Focus BAND? replace with focus sash
-Hidden Power Ice will do 51-60% damage to bulky Dragonite with max sATK EVs and Modest nature. It won't kill a dragonite even without any EV investments
-Hidden Power Ice will do 63-73% damage to bulky Flygon with max sATK EVs and Modest nature, it CAN kill flygon if flygon doesn't have any EV investments
-Hidden Power Dragon will do 29-34% damage to bulky Kingdra with max sATK EVs and Modest nature. It won't kill a kingdra even without any EV investments
-Every dragon above will 2HKO butterfree (focus sash)
-Every dragon above will kill butterfree in one hit if any entry hazard has been placed down
-Every dragon above will kill btuterfree in one turn if hail/sandstorm is active
-twister has even lower power than hidden power; the flinch gimmick is unreliable
-dragonite typically carry lum berry, rendering stunspore and swagger useless
.: The only way this butterfree can work is by being a lead and hoping that the other team sends out a dragon as well. And even then, your opponent will probably switch out to a sleep absorber.
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On September 10 2010 12:33 synapse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 12:22 infinitestory wrote:On September 10 2010 12:16 synapse wrote:You can try to pull off some Timid Butterfree, but ultimately it's just way too slow - even in UU. Butterfree really has a nice moveset, and compoundeyes is cute, but... it just isn't fast enough or bulky enough to do much of anything. Your best bet is Timid Butterfree, max speed EV, @focus sash; you can sleep whirlwind then try to get lucky and kill something / do a bit of damage? On September 10 2010 11:33 infinitestory wrote:
I'm pretty sure Butterfree can't OHKO most dragons, even with HP Ice.
Nah, max Sp.Atk EV's on a Butterfree will kill any dragon that is 4x to ice (meaning most of them) I ran a damage calculation, max SpA Butterfree HP Ice on the standard 252/0 Dragonite doesn't actually kill. You can, however, kill Flygon (although good luck killing it before it kills you) Isn't Dragonite the highest Sp.Def dragon (that is 4x weak to ice)? I think mence is 80 sp.def, garchomp is somewhere around there, same for flygon (I have one in my team yay).
It can do up to 79-93% dmg to garchomp and 89%-OHKOing Salamence
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On September 10 2010 12:02 LegendaryDreams wrote:
You're all bad.
hello /B/utterfree
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Well he hasn't responded to that topic yet, but has to others. I'm bringing that post up on the projector at the next meeting. This is gonna be dramatic
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I would not do a Pokemon tournament mostly because it's Smogon.
However... Smogon's ignorance of some Pokemon can be exploited proper if I can actually put forth effort on my HeartGold game. Not just on Butterfree, but on 5 other Pokemon that are mistreated in terms of metagaming.
...?! This is much bigger than I anticipated.
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Its 4x weak to stealth rock, has poor typing in general, and its speed is mediocre. So yeah butterfree is really bad. The only way you could possibly use butterfree is with a choice scarf+sleep powder but thats a waste of a scarf. or you could baton pass to it, and in that case breloom is a much better choice.
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Generally, Butterfree is terrible. It has its niche as a Double Powder lead, though, since it has the potential to cripple a third of the opponent's team off the bat, thanks to the combination of Stun Spore / Sleep Powder and CompoundEyes.
Of course, since this is Butterfree's only selling point, any competent player will expect DP and switch to something that doesn't mind status / is immune to that powder (Hitmonlee and Primeape come to mind). And if Butterfree is slower than the opponent, it's dead weight for the rest of the match.
Overall, Butterfree is a gimmick in UU, and almost not worth using whatsoever in OU. It can catch you by surprise if you're not prepared for it, but quickly loses effectiveness, since it won't do anything at all past the first few turns in a battle.
As for the culprit's suggestions for movesets... El oh el. My best suggestion for a usable set would be the second set on Smogon:
Butterfree @ Focus Sash; Jolly nature
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Speed
- Stun Spore
- Sleep Powder
- U-turn
- Protect
This set should really only be used on an offensively-based team, as balanced and stall teams really won't benefit from the dead weight after the first several turns. The first two moves are self-explanatory; U-turn allows escape from situations where you cannot predict what the foe's lead will do, and Protect allows Butterfree to negate Ambipom's Fake Out. The non-maxed HP EVs keep Butterfree from dying after two switches into SR.
EDIT: Typo; meant to say Stun Spore.
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Butterfree doesn't get Spore, I'm pretty sure.
Since as far as I can tell all it has going for it is CompoundEyes, why not just use something like Breloom? It's superior in like every way.
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Posted by /B/utterfree (yeah thats really his name)
/B/utterfree
/B/
yeah I would say that there is a high probability that he is trolling
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EPT
